GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Scopes And Optics Gate => Topic started by: KnifeMaker on December 03, 2016, 06:46:54 AM
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I am a Scope snob,and have been for many decades. My first Optic purchace was a pair of Cub Scout Binos when I was in the Cub Scouts.
Now at 62 year of age, (ever notice that the "years of age" thing is only used for us Old Farts)? I have many years of trying, testing, owning, and using both everyday and fine optics from around the World. Ranging from cheap Chinese to the finest Germany, Austria and Switzerland have to offer.
To say I have become jaded is an understatement! Too the point that in my eyes, the Most Popular Scope in Air Gunning,and yes, here on the Tag, is in my eyes, Pure, Unadulterated Junk. They were fine at their price point, but they somehow, the Manufacturer and The Dealer got the impression that they were producing a fine optic, and almost doubled their price overnight. With "absolutely" NO Justification in quality what so ever.
Same thing happened with the Nikko Stirling Field Target scope. It was a decent scope, that would range for field target. At 600 bucks, it was high for what it was, but doable if you are serious about the sport. The Dealer got hold of it, and raised the price to a grand, and many complained. A new versions came out which was in many eyes, inferior to the older version. BUT---The price didn't drop. So how does it compare to today's offerings, well, it doesn't. The Greed, along with lack luster quality killed it faster than ogg's Sling for target shooting.
So onto just why I am writing this tidbit on First Focal Plane Scopes.
Having spent a good bit of time in Germany and Austria, and learning just why the FFP scopes were so popular in Europe, (Along with larger tubes and objectives, than "the then USA's offerings) I was hooked. When I told my hunting friends of my findings in Europe, they thought I was nuts. When I talked to Leupold, they too thought I was Nuts! Of course, this was back in the very late 70's and early 80's. They actually laughed at such things as 50 or 56MM Objectives, First Focal Plane, even solid clicks for windage, and elevation, and 30MM or higher dia. tube, and now claim they are using thiem for better light gathering. Bull! all the larger tube is accomplishing is higher strength all things being equal, and room for more robust internal parts and more elevation and windage for long range shooting.(*(&^, to this day,they don't know why they are doing what they are doing, just copying because it is popular in the high end scopes).
Back in the day,when I talked to Lup'y they felt at the time a friction fit was all that anyone could ever need. Which is all but useless on a high recoil, precision rifle. I begged them to try some of the German Tec. At least Click Windage and elevation dials. But they were like talking to a brick wall.
Hilariously, they claimed in advertisements in sporting magazines to have invent the Duplex Reticle, (They Didn't), the first coated optics, Nope!. It was Zeiss. First waterproof scope, Uh, NO, Zeiss again. Etched Ret. (Another German/Austrian invention). They claimed to have been the first in many areas in optics. Yet, I cannot find a single thing they were actually the first in, other the first to mislead the shooting fraternity, of just exactly what they were producing and selling.(While they claimed to be the BEST SCOPE IN THE WORLD) And just about any American hunter would think it sacrilege to say anything negative at all. They didn't have a clue that they were not fully American made. And most still don't! Grrrrr!!! Lupy's were and still are too many, sent from the God's in some parts of the US. And it is Heresy to mention any shortcomings of their scopes.
It was pretty much the same for decades here in the US, with All the American Scopes, In fact, there is only ONE Fully made American Scope, and that is U.S. Optics. Not Lupy, Nite Force, Weaver, Nada, Zip, Zilch. NONE! There is one or two specialty companies that will build a Custom Scope, but they are still NOT Fully American Made Scopes.
Fast forward a few decades, and a few War's to push them into the modern ages and they now have "MOST" of the boxes ticked. They have just about all the things that they swore up and down, were not needed in a Scope. They actually grew up as a company.
How they became America's Scope Premier Scope Company, I have No Idea. Other than brilliant advertising in all the Gun and Hunting Mag's. Always telling us that they were the best of the best "SIR"! And they were, unless one opened one's eyes as to what was going on in the World Around Them.
It was with this full distrust in claims being made by Optic Companies thru years of having such claims pushed on the Firearms Shooting Fraternity, That I began my search for a FFP scope that lived up to the Companies Hype. , I was looking for a Scope that had Crisp, Clear Optics with good light gathering, while at the same time, having excellent resolution to be able to discern exactly what it was hiding in the shadows, hiding behind the tree line, in fading light. or on a night time pig hunt, where you are after dark game, in low light with nothing but Moonlight for finding the game.
And Lit Ret. for night pig hunting, or the occasional varmint causing problems on the property at night.
These are tall orders, to be sure. But are readily available in fine Scope Brands, that are well proven over the years. They are also Very expensive. Being Medically retired, from my prime years of working in the Custom Knife Business, I have a very meager income. My wife is disabled as well, so between the two of us, we really have to watch the dollars.
This closed the door on Such Brands as Hensolt, (The Military Optics Division of Zeiss). Schmidt Bender, The new offerings from Stiner, or U.S. Optics. There was only one company left ,that I might be interested in, and be able to swing. A Vortex PST, which if studious in purchasing can be had for well under a Grand. A Good Looking Scope, and does a good job in every respect. So I started saving my pennies.! Grrrrrr!, This was going to take a while. And I don't know how many "whiles" I have left. LOLl But I would have what I was lusting after all these years
This is when I received a phone call from one of my retired Army buddies, who was an Army Scout Sniper for years. He told me that he got the opportunity to try out a new, LOWER Cost FFP recently, and was impressed. Even more so when he learned the going price.
This was the new Athllon Argos BTR 6x24-50mm objective, with a very nice Ret. which is lit! in a 30mm tube, in a body of heat treated 6061 with a T-6 Heat Treatment, AirCraft Grade Alu. With a very good looking deep non shiny Anodising. Not to mention a Lifetime Warranty, that requires NO Registering! Woah, this is getting interesting.
Well, being me, I started the research. I was having a hard time believing the claims of people using the scope. But what the heck. All of the reviews I could find were very good indeed so I did what comes naturally. I pulled the trigger on their 6x24x50mm Argos model.
It is dead in the middle of their product line, and it retails for around 444. usd. I hunted around until I found a deal that would allow me to own this beauty, and as I said, I pulled the Trigger!!!;-0 (I found it on sale for 313 usd. and it is still on sale on amazon for 329 currently).
I found one on Amazon, and they took almost two week to get it to me. It was shipped in a box from Amazon, with NO packing, paper, bubble wrap, foam, NADA. The box was large enough to put at least 4 of the boxes the scope came in. It rattled around in there like a BB in a Box Car! This after waiting for them to ship from 174 miles away, with an in stock item, for TWO Frick'n weeks! Man I was Ticked. Not only was I anxious to receive this bit of optical heaven, but the weather was fantastic for all of the waiting time. With it's arrival, of the cuff of bad weather starting in one to two days. Grrrrrrr+1.
Well, I finally got Her mounted. (Always liked the sound of that, LOL!!!), started the trial. First adjustment for POI, and play with it for a while. I was really interested in Clarity, both at the cross hairs, as well to see how far that clarity extended to the edge of the field of view.
Well, surprise of surprises, it was crystal clear. Center, edge, and everywhere in between! That was ;certainly a very nice surprise! Especially at anything under 1500 use or sol. I was starting to get stoked, but still was awaiting final judgements. There were a few things I wanted to further investigate here. :wink:
Ok, How are the adjustment on target. Well, pretty darned good my TAG Brothers! Nice Clicks, (Could have been a bit firmer, but well defined, and I could feel them just fine, without looking at them).
They were crisp and precise. The following day, I shot the box, and WOW!!! DEAD ON? When did a 400 usd scope do that? I was starting to get really impressed with this Athlon Argos Offering.
Next thing I noticed is the Power Adjustments are stiff, but very repeatable. They work as they should, and this is a huge part of using a FFP scope as it is so easy to range.
Using the Mil-dot System is something you can only do in one power setting in a Second Plane Scope. Where this very repeatable power adjustments comes in, is something I in NO WAY expected or was looking for in a Scope from anywhere in this price range. And it was exactly that. It Ranges!
No, I'm not talking about the Mil-Dot System, I mean it Ranges much like a Field Target Scope. I was very curious when I looked at the side Adjustment when shooting at my 76 yard target. It said 76 yards! Simple blind luck I thought. So I decided to try it on something else, that was pre lasered.
First I tried the 36 yard short range varmint target, Whoa! Dead on.
When you turn the dial high low, it snaps into a Crisp Picture that is not mistakable. Tried the 51 yard target, Yep. Dead on again. Tried a 139 yard lasered tree and tried again. 220 yards? Got my favorite Squirrel three in the cross hair, adjusted the Side Focus, looked at the numbers, darned if it wasn't dead on. ! 220 exactly. Just as lasered.
I in NO way expected this. Not in a Scope that was not designed for Air Gunners!
My final trial was to see if it could be focused down to ten yards YES, Yes it can Folks, and at lower power dialed in, quite a bit closer! My Zeiss 6x14 will only focus down to 50 yards at most powers. and about 25 on 6x. This in my mind, was a real find indeed!
It's resolving power is very, very good. Resolution and Color trueness are very good. Bright, vibrant colors are well, true,and well, just sorta vibrant. If you have never looked thru high quality optics, you may not know just exactly what that special something in the colors can be. Once you see it, you will have a hard time settling for less. Zeiss Binos is what first spoiled me in this area, and The Argos doesn't disappoint in this area one little bit!
Yeah, I know I'm gushing like a schoolgirl, on her first crush, but Never in my wildest imagination did I expect anywhere near the performance of this scope in a price range such as this.
Why in heck didn't I buy one of these a long time ago? Brrrr! That's right, they didn't exist a long time ago. WOO-HOO!!! We have a real winner Guys! I think I'm gonna go out and shoot some more. I only managed to go thru 200 rounds yesterday. Such a shame.
I talked to one of the Fellows at Athlon, as I was really curious as to what was going on at their company. He was very informative, and really knew optics. Turns out the Company President, was the man behind the Bushnell Elites. A fine piece of gear to be sure. Their goal is to improve what has come before, at a very affordable price. Allowing you and I to enjoy fine Optics, at a price we can live with.
The Custom .257 Dyotat100 and this New Athlon Argos are a perfect match. I just love watching the bullets fly down range and flash thru the Bulls Eye. Talk about a Shooters Dream, that can be actually afforded on a working man's means. (Even a retired one).
What more can we possibly ask for?
Color me impressed!
KnifeMaker
Notice: This post has been modified to fit the more Sensitive and P.C. atmosphere of the GTA, in the hopes that no one will be offended by any statements written here.
If anyone is offended, or in any other way put off, please feel free to comment to that effect by PM, or on this post. I will try to comply.
Knife
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Looks like a winner. Here's one on sale on Amazon . https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-214061-Argos-Direct-Riflescope/dp/B0157N4640 (https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-214061-Argos-Direct-Riflescope/dp/B0157N4640)
That's only a hundred more than the cheap BSA ,Falcon or primary arms . Thanks for the review Knife . I'm in the process of finding them in Canada . Wish me luck.
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I saw this scope in the Dvor clearance a while back and said based on the price there was no way it could be a "good" scope based on FFP, and what I thought I knew about scopes. I've bought a lot of inexpensive scopes over my 62 years, and only in the last couple of purchases bought a VX III, and a Vortex PST. both still SFP scopes. I think the PST is a better scope than the VX III.
Do you know where the glass is made in the Athlon scope? I think the PST glass was made in the Phillipines IIRC?
I guess I have a hard time realizing you can get a quality FFP scope for less than $400. ;D
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Thank you for sharing all the info, and, above all, congratulations for your - happiness! Enjoy!
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Looks like a winner. Here's one on sale on Amazon . https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-214061-Argos-Direct-Riflescope/dp/B0157N4640 (https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-214061-Argos-Direct-Riflescope/dp/B0157N4640)
That's only a hundred more than the cheap BSA ,Falcon or primary arms . Thanks for the review Knife . I'm in the process of finding them in Canada . Wish me luck.
Not much of a chance seeing that price up here unfortunately.
https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/168-2103214-4088734?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Athlon+214061+Argos+BTR+6-24+x+50+Direct+Dial+Side+Focus+Riflescope (https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/168-2103214-4088734?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Athlon+214061+Argos+BTR+6-24+x+50+Direct+Dial+Side+Focus+Riflescope)
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Looks like a winner. Here's one on sale on Amazon . https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-214061-Argos-Direct-Riflescope/dp/B0157N4640 (https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-214061-Argos-Direct-Riflescope/dp/B0157N4640)
That's only a hundred more than the cheap BSA ,Falcon or primary arms . Thanks for the review Knife . I'm in the process of finding them in Canada . Wish me luck.
Not much of a chance seeing that price up here unfortunately.
https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/168-2103214-4088734?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Athlon+214061+Argos+BTR+6-24+x+50+Direct+Dial+Side+Focus+Riflescope (https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/168-2103214-4088734?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Athlon+214061+Argos+BTR+6-24+x+50+Direct+Dial+Side+Focus+Riflescope)
Ouch ... You need a friend this side of the border to get you one ... mail or drive it across the border.
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If I remember correctly Canada and the USA have some kind of an agreement on not shipping firearms related items back and forth across the border.
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I did a search a Dvor, and this is the specials that came up. I actually like the reticle in the 4-16X44 better than the 6-24X56, but it may not be as "bright" in low light conditions. I did notice that they only have 20 and 16 mils of adjustment for elevation and windage. I was thinking 60-80 mils was normal or am I "confused" again as normal.
http://www.dvor.com/search/athlon (http://www.dvor.com/search/athlon)
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I am thinking about the ATHLON MIDAS BTR 4.5-27x50 to try out, if its good it may very well be the best scope for air rifles
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I had one and they are an excellent scope! But I'm a sucker for fixed mag SWFAs and just sold it
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As a man slightly north of your age, I really appreciate your committment to real value and realism. So often these days we see the lemming effect, where everyone just jumps on board and follows the leader, with no real experience to draw on, and no history to fallback on. Thanks again for a great review and great narative.
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I am thinking about the ATHLON MIDAS BTR 4.5-27x50 to try out, if its good it may very well be the best scope for air rifles
Don't know if you noticed but that model is SFP instead of FFP. However it is on sale for 7 more days. The rest of the scopes sale prices expire tonight.
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Yes I know I prefer 2nd focal plane, Where is the sale?
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Yes I know I prefer 2nd focal plane, Where is the sale?
Here
http://www.dvor.com/search/athlon (http://www.dvor.com/search/athlon)
or here
https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-213020-4-5-27-Capped-Riflescope/dp/B01APT05X2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1480822386&sr=8-6&keywords=athlon (https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-213020-4-5-27-Capped-Riflescope/dp/B01APT05X2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1480822386&sr=8-6&keywords=athlon)
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I am a Scope snob,and have been for many decades. My first Optic purchace was a pair of Cub Scout Binos when I was in the Cub Scouts.
Now at 62 year of age, (ever notice that the "years of age" thing is only used for us Old Farts)? I have many years of trying, testing, owning, and using both everyday and fine optics from around the World. Ranging from cheap Chinese to the finest Germany, Austria and Switzerland have to offer.
To say I have become jaded is an understatement! Too the point that in my eyes, the Most Popular Scope in Air Gunning,and yes, here on the Tag, is in my eyes, Pure, Unadulterated Junk. They were fine at their price point, but they somehow, the Manufacturer and The Dealer got the impression that they were producing a fine optic, and almost doubled their price overnight. With "absolutely" NO Justification in quality what so ever.
...
Knife
Boy do you strike a nerve (on so many levels!). You have a few years on me, but I too come from a generation that once knew how to recognize quality.
Wrong time, place, and format to say more, but I have a question that I suspect you may be uniquely qualified to answer...
How do SWFA scopes compare and where do they fit in on the price-to-quality scale?
Loved your post Michael!
Steve
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Canadians, yes, Canada, Brazil and some other countries are included in a Firearm Convention with the USA. So, you will need an Import Certificate (..), followed by an Export Certificate (..).
From my learning curve, trying to buy a scope in the USA.
Making a long story short.. If you are a very persistent person - and - you do not fear a time-consuming bureaucracy, you may try at Eurooptics.
If they have (or are able..) what you want, and as far as I know, they are the unique USA store willing to engage in the legal task.
http://www.eurooptic.com/ (http://www.eurooptic.com/)
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I've found a place up here (Canada) that orders direct and sells to the public. They quoted me a price of 550 plus tax and shipping which is just under 600.00$ Canadian. In comparison a Vortex pst 6-24x50 with the mrad FFP is retailing for 1300.00 plus taxes and shipping . That means it's twice what I paid for a BSA 4-14x44 but less than half of the scope I've been saving my pennies for .
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I am a Scope snob,and have been for many decades. My first Optic purchace was a pair of Cub Scout Binos when I was in the Cub Scouts.
Now at 62 year of age, (ever notice that the "years of age" thing is only used for us Old Farts)? I have many years of trying, testing, owning, and using both everyday and fine optics from around the World. Ranging from cheap Chinese to the finest Germany, Austria and Switzerland have to offer.
To say I have become jaded is an understatement! Too the point that in my eyes, the Most Popular Scope in Air Gunning,and yes, here on the Tag, is in my eyes, Pure, Unadulterated Junk. They were fine at their price point, but they somehow, the Manufacturer and The Dealer got the impression that they were producing a fine optic, and almost doubled their price overnight. With "absolutely" NO Justification in quality what so ever.
...
Knife
Boy do you strike a nerve (on so many levels!). You have a few years on me, but I too come from a generation that once knew how to recognize quality.
Wrong time, place, and format to say more, but I have a question that I suspect you may be uniquely qualified to answer...
How do SWFA scopes compare and where do they fit in on the price-to-quality scale?
Loved your post Michael!
Steve
I can't speak specifically about the other scopes, but I do have an SWFA SS in 10X with the MOA-Quad reticle, and I LOVE it. It has Japanese glass, is very clear, and that reticle is one of the best I've used. It stands up very well to scopes costing 2-3 times as much. It tracks great too. Granted, I've never used some of the very high $$ scopes, but I do photography, and know good optics when I see them fwiw...
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Hobby, either Scope is a Whole Other Class than the BSA you are use to. Almost a Whole Universe! 8) LOL!!!
Knife
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Rally S.
The SWAF is a good Scope! I just can't live with the Too huge power for thick woods walking, or that shot at 100-200+ yard shot here in the open fields of Texas. Much less Long range shooting.
The variable SWAF Is substantially higher in cost, and very good. But still tops out to low for what I was wanting to do.
My Zeiss is in the exact range of the SWAF Variable, and used it for years. Stepping up to 24x in a clear crisp and scope has been a real Eye Opener for me! (Did I just say that )? LOL!!!
Good friend has the SWAF Variable,l and really enjoyed it. He, (Tofazfou) has had it for a couple of years now, and trust it. But he taking interens ti the New Altaros Offerings. ;)
Knife
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Normally I would not bother with a review on a Scope. As I have be thru many in my years of different shooting disciplines, But the Altaros product was so far ahead of what I expected, and far beyond anything in its price range, or several hundred dollars above it, that I felt My Fellow Air Gunners needed to know about these "New Scopes" and the company behind them.
I have the uneasy, but natural feeling that once the Quality becomes known by more an more shooters, the prices will skyrocket. It is the way of the world. Grrrrrrr!!! ;D
Impressive is a good start! ;)
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I bit the bullet and bought one . Hope it's as good as the reviews . To be completely honest I didn't really need it and have been pretty happy with my cheap BSA FFP scopes. Oh well , looks like I need a new rifle to go with the BSA I'm gonna by to pull off my BT65. I'll be sure to post my initial findings when it gets here , hopefully before Christmas.
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well not only did I get one , but Have access to the line... I will be comparing them side by side to the Viper pro.
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well not only did I get one , but Have access to the line... I will be comparing them side by side to the Viper pro.
That is something I am interested in seeing. Thanks in advance.
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So I sent Athlon a question of which of their scopes are spring airgun rated:
"Subject: Spring air rifle rated rifle scope
Message: Hello,
I would like to know if any of your riflescopes are spring airgun rated and what are the model numbers?
Thank you,
Taso"
Their response was:
"Hi Taso,
All of our scopes are rated for spring air rifles.
Thank you!
Trent"
That is really good news! Maybe too good so please verify for yourselves. I will have to re check out what they have. ;-)
Thanks,
Taso
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It looks like it should be a darn solid scope for the money. Like Dairyboy said, I too am a sucker for the fixed power scopes :D If I ever do feel the need for a high magnification variable scope, I will definitely have to give those a serious look.
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Guy's, sorry, but I've been out of the loop for a while now. Medical/Med's issues.
Hobby, once our see the difference, you will probably want to send BSA a letter, and ask them just when they are going to start using true optical glass rather than re-cycled coke bottle glass. They really that bad. But if it is all you've had, hard to tell the difference. I tried them again after years after seeing good reviews, and thinking they must have really improved. I was sorely disappointed. Truly Terrible glass. At ANY price point.
It is amazing that a company with such a proud past, would allow such a product to carry their name. I just can't wrap my mind around it. It would take so little to bring the line up to at least acceptable standards in comparison to the competition level they are in.
Knife
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BWalton, let me know how that comparison comes out. I'm bery interested in the outcome. I have been interested in the Viper pro for a while now. but never had hand on one.
Med's messing me up. Got to go.
Thanks Guy's
Knife
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BWalton, let me know how that comparison comes out. I'm bery interested in the outcome. I have been interested in the Viper pro for a while now. but never had hand on one.
Med's messing me up. Got to go.
Thanks Guy's
Knife
I will, I am going to field test three scopes, one of my favorites the MTC Genisis which is now going to have new glass, the Viper pro, and I can tell you I'm almost sure its going to whoop on the Athlon not sure but the glass looks on par, but the features are going to push it well ahead. The Athlon is the second to the top of their line the Midas 4.5-27X50
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IIRC the Midas is supposed to be HD glass according to the description I read last week on it.... May have my facts mixed up though so don't quote me...
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Thanks for the write up - great info!
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If I remember correctly, I do believe it does have High Dispersion glass.
You would be amazed just how many people think iHD in Otics stands for High Def. LOL, 1080+"P" I guess. ROFL ;D
Knife
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I got some more information from Athlon. I asked:
"
Subject: Re: Spring air rifle rated rifle scope
Hello,
Thank you for the response. That is good to know. I have one more question, for now at least.
Regarding your Athlon Optics Talos 6-24x50 with Side Focus, will it focus to 10 meters on 24 power?
What other models focus to 10 meters and the highest magnification range?
Thank you,
Taso"
And the response:
"Hi Taso,
Yes, the Talos 6-24 will focus down to 10 yards at all mag.
Midas BTR – 2.5-15 – 10 yd focus
Argos BTR – 6-24 – 10 yd focus
Talos BTR – 4-14 – 10 yds
Talos – 3-12 – 10 yds
Talos – 6-24 – 10 yds
Neos – 4-12 and 6-18 – 10 yds
Let me know if you need anything else."
I am just adding the info for future reference.
Taso
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However, what is the point? I need to see the target. Not the atoms it is made of. LOL!!! Kinda pointless! Unless you're the most blind shooter on the planet. LOL!!!
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BWalton, let me know how that comparison comes out. I'm bery interested in the outcome. I have been interested in the Viper pro for a while now. but never had hand on one.
Med's messing me up. Got to go.
Thanks Guy's
Knife
I will, I am going to field test three scopes, one of my favorites the MTC Genisis which is now going to have new glass, the Viper pro, and I can tell you I'm almost sure its going to whoop on the Athlon not sure but the glass looks on par, but the features are going to push it well ahead. The Athlon is the second to the top of their line the Midas 4.5-27X50
Seems to me, all else being equal. The Viper Pro should in all rights, have the edge. After all, I does cost twice as much as the Argos. I paid 313. usd for mine. (On sale on Amazon Pre-Black Friday) 8)
Knife
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However, what is the point? I need to see the target. Not the atoms it is made of. LOL!!! Kinda pointless! Unless you're the most blind shooter on the planet. LOL!!!
Knife,
If this was directed at me, if you are trying to find the most accurate pellet out of your rifle at 10 meters it is important. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, so I humbly apologize, but since this seems to be the only post on Athlon scopes I just wanted to add the information for future reference.
Taso
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Naw Taso! JUst picking on ya in a typical Dry Texas fashon. ;D
A shame smal nuances don't come out right when writing on a fory!
I checked it today, and yep! Did just fine at the full 24X at 10 yards.
You can some in closer, but will have to drop down to 22X. ;)
Knife
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Knife,
Ah, ok. :) I've never been to Texas and you are right, tone is so hard to pick up from text.
I first heard of Athlon optics not too long ago when their HD binoculars reviewed well.
I'll be watching this thread!
Taso
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BWalton, let me know how that comparison comes out. I'm bery interested in the outcome. I have been interested in the Viper pro for a while now. but never had hand on one.
Med's messing me up. Got to go.
Thanks Guy's
Knife
I will, I am going to field test three scopes, one of my favorites the MTC Genisis which is now going to have new glass, the Viper pro, and I can tell you I'm almost sure its going to whoop on the Athlon not sure but the glass looks on par, but the features are going to push it well ahead. The Athlon is the second to the top of their line the Midas 4.5-27X50
Seems to me, all else being equal. The Viper Pro should in all rights, have the edge. After all, I does cost twice as much as the Argos. I paid 313. usd for mine. (On sale on Amazon Pre-Black Friday) 8)
Knife
Thats the lower end one that you are taking about, I have the Midas which around the same cost as the Viper Pro.
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Us Field Target shooters need to go down to 10 yards.
I'm waiting for the Athlon Helos 6X24X50 that's supposed to come out after next month's SHOT show. Upgraded turrets and relocated IR switch.
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Yes, their scopes focus down to 10 yards.
I will be testing the scope you speak of in a few weeks.
Knife
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I envy you guys that do the long range shooting, the best scope I've ever bought is my Bug Buster compact rifle scope for $100 at my door. Basically the only scopes that I ever hunted with are mounted on my Ruger 10-22(Weaver), Sheridan (bought new in 77 along with the Weaver B4 and mounting accessories), my modified 2240 (has a CP 4x) and the last one that I purchased was the Bug Buster 3-9 compact (love it). Normally when I use to hunt deer a lot I always used open sights with either a rifle or muzzle loader but I have shot them with a slug from a shotgun looking down a vent ribbed barrel. I have a friend that was a sniper in the gulf war, next time I see him I'll ask him what they were using because he used a 50cal up to a mile with that thing. Pretty much here where I'm at and the kind of hunting I do I guess this old fart really doesn't need anything better than a Bug Buster but it still doesn't hurt to dream 8)
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From what I've read i think a lot of the special forces optics are March, Schmidt-Bender, Nightforce, and a couple of others.
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I don't know about March. Not seen any proven G-force readings for them. They are for match shooting.
Other popular contenders are the newer Tactical Lupy's, Hensholt, (The Military Division of Zeiss), U.S. Optics, and most recently I.O.R Valdada optics.
But then again folks, these are only "BB" guns we're playing with after all. LOL!!! Not ultra tough, mil spec Sniper Rifles that "Lives" depend on. I think we get a little ahead of ourselves, and the grandeur of our guns and their importance.
I still use the Zeiss a LOT! 8) But am more and more impressed with the Athlon offerings.
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KnifeMaker,
I'm new to the forum and really enjoyed your post. I picked up an nib RWS 460 a week ago at a very good price and was searching for a scope when I ran across your post. Anyway I just order from Optics Planet the Athlon Talos BRT 4-14x44 for a total cost of $266.61. Most of the Athlon scopes are on sale and if the banner at the top of the page says call for special offers, DO It, another 10% off. I know this scope won't compare to my Nightforce or Khales but I do like how they are set up and feel sure it will do what I need, chipmunk eradication.
Now looking for the correct mount, and finding out airgun items are alot different than for precision centerfire rifles.
Thanks again for your post!
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KnifeMaker,
I'm new to the forum and really enjoyed your post. I picked up an nib RWS 460 a week ago at a very good price and was searching for a scope when I ran across your post. Anyway I just order from Optics Planet the Athlon Talos BRT 4-14x44 for a total cost of $266.61. Most of the Athlon scopes are on sale and if the banner at the top of the page says call for special offers, DO It, another 10% off. I know this scope won't compare to my Nightforce or Khales but I do like how they are set up and feel sure it will do what I need, chipmunk eradication.
Now looking for the correct mount, and finding out airgun items are alot different than for precision centerfire rifles.
Thanks again for your post!
KnifeMaker's review has also got me eyeing (no pun) this same scope since 14x is more than I need but I'm interested in the FFP. I just wish it was a bit lighter & without an illuminated reticle: Athlon Optics Talos BTR 4-14x44
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KnifeMaker,
I'm new to the forum and really enjoyed your post. I picked up an nib RWS 460 a week ago at a very good price and was searching for a scope when I ran across your post. Anyway I just order from Optics Planet the Athlon Talos BRT 4-14x44 for a total cost of $266.61. Most of the Athlon scopes are on sale and if the banner at the top of the page says call for special offers, DO It, another 10% off. I know this scope won't compare to my Nightforce or Khales but I do like how they are set up and feel sure it will do what I need, chipmunk eradication.
Now looking for the correct mount, and finding out airgun items are alot different than for precision centerfire rifles.
Thanks again for your post!
KnifeMaker's review has also got me eyeing (no pun) this same scope since 14x is more than I need but I'm interested in the FFP. I just wish it was a bit lighter & without an illuminated reticle: Athlon Optics Talos BTR 4-14x44
I like high magnification and would prefer more than 14x but you really need good glass and at this price point you won't get the best glass. Don't let the weight or illumination bother you, 5 or 6 ounces more isn't much and no battery = no illumination. Mine shipped today so i'll follow up with first impressions when I receive it.
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Thanks Claude - looking forward to hearing about it!
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The Athlon Talos 3-12 with mildot looks like a winner for a .177 springer.
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Thank You so Much FishKat!
I had to do a bit of mid-night varmint hunting last night.
I had a problem with a particular type of wild critter, killing anything it could. Particularly my baby rabbits and roadrunners in their nest.
Well, I had never used a lit ret. before, and never needed it. However, as the ffp ret. shrinks at low mag, it is a real help with night shooting.
The offending critter made a fast pass across my property at apx. 10:30 last night, and was VERY weary, and moving fast about 50 yards out.
I knew it would be back before too long. Well, it didn't show back up until almost 12:30, and it was getting a little cool out. I sat in the dark, (star light) until I knew it was about time. The Altaros was able to gather enough light to let me see well enough at 70 yards to make out the offender when he showed himself again sneaking along a log infront of my shooting berm.
I could make out its silhouette with no problems, but I wanted a clean shot. I set the lit. Ret. on the 8 setting, and hit the light.
The offender turned and looked at me for a split second and ran fast to the right at about 75 yards. I led it about 5-6 inches, and let a 80 gr. HP .257 fly. I could actually see the base of the bullet glowing in the light and streaking toward its intended target. And the rest is as they say,"Is history"! :D
DRT!!! ;)
Man, I'm Lov'n this Altaros more every day, (And night)! 8)
Knife
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I'm glad I finally read this post after passing over it for several days, very interesting indeed. I ordered the Athlon Argos last night. I'm curious to see how it stacks up against the Optisan Viper which is currently my favorite scope as of recently. Amazon guarantees it will be here on Monday.
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Thank You so Much FishKat!
I had to do a bit of mid-night varmint hunting last night.
I had a problem with a particular type of wild critter, killing anything it could. Particularly my baby rabbits and roadrunners in their nest.
Well, I had never used a lit ret. before, and never needed it. However, as the ffp ret. shrinks at low mag, it is a real help with night shooting.
The offending critter made a fast pass across my property at apx. 10:30 last night, and was VERY weary, and moving fast about 50 yards out.
I knew it would be back before too long. Well, it didn't show back up until almost 12:30, and it was getting a little cool out. I sat in the dark, (star light) until I knew it was about time. The Altaros was able to gather enough light to let me see well enough at 70 yards to make out the offender when he showed himself again sneaking along a log infront of my shooting berm.
I could make out its silhouette with no problems, but I wanted a clean shot. I set the lit. Ret. on the 8 setting, and hit the light.
The offender turned and looked at me for a split second and ran fast to the right at about 75 yards. I led it about 5-6 inches, and let a 80 gr. HP .257 fly. I could actually see the base of the bullet glowing in the light and streaking toward its intended target. And the rest is as they say,"Is history"! :D
DRT!!! ;)
Man, I'm Lov'n this Altaros more every day, (And night)! 8)
Knife
Well done & excellent shooting!
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Just received the Argos Btr 6-24x50 mil/mil . Straight from the box in comparison with the BSA offering ,the build looks similar but not the same . Proportions for the Athlon are bigger, the turrets have a positive feel in comparison , the flip up shades are also a nice perk in comparison to the bikini covers with the BSA. The glass is better from initial look through and the IR works perfectly with no fuzzy glare from the reticle like I experienced with a cheaper leapers I have. I'll be mounting and testing soon . So far looks real good .
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Thanks JP!
I love the way it gets the blood pressure up and pumping. It never gets old! ;) 8)
Knife
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Here's a couple of pics to compare with the BSA .
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I like Leupold scopes for what they are. And that is, in my opinion, the lightest, sleekest scope there is, and one of the toughest. These are things that I value highly in a hunting scope.
I certainly don't need a large, bulky, 6-24x50 scope to do long range hog hunting at night with an air rifle, because I'm simply not going to do that. This is an airgun site, right..?...
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I like Leupold scopes for what they are. And that is, in my opinion, the lightest, sleekest scope there is, and one of the toughest. These are things that I value highly in a hunting scope.
I certainly don't need a large, bulky, 6-24x50 scope to do long range hog hunting at night with an air rifle, because I'm simply not going to do that. This is an airgun site, right..?...
I believe the allure was price-point vs. clarity and FFP design. Unfortunately it went on sale briefly and now it's well out of my reach :-\
Sokay, UTG makes good scopes...
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I like Leupold scopes for what they are. And that is, in my opinion, the lightest, sleekest scope there is, and one of the toughest. These are things that I value highly in a hunting scope.
I certainly don't need a large, bulky, 6-24x50 scope to do long range hog hunting at night with an air rifle, because I'm simply not going to do that. This is an airgun site, right..?...
I believe the allure was price-point vs. clarity and FFP design. Unfortunately it went on sale briefly and now it's well out of my reach :-\
Sokay, UTG makes good scopes...
Actually, I would buy a big scope like that for a target rifle.
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I usually take these scope reviews with a grain of salt.
I am an Optics snob. I freely admit it.
Usually what happens is as follows.
Guy buys a new scope. Guy likes his new scope. For the money, not a bad scope.
Next thing you know, scope is being compared to high end optics costing hundreds more.
Shortly thereafter, scope becomes the best scope you can get for under 1000.00. ( such is the case in one of the threads here about Mueller scopes)
As time goes on , scope is then compared to,,,,, you guessed it........Leupold, Zeiss, and other top tier brands costing much much more.
Buyer then goes on to tell the masses , scope is as good or better than the top tier brands. I'm here to tell you that this is not the case AT ALL.
The Argos offers a decent FFP scope, for the money. It is by no means the equivalent of the top tier brands.
Leupold , Ziess and quite a few others will be optically superior in every way. They are also engineered far better. Even the finish is leaps and bounds ahead of the bargain brand. The turrets are better, no slop in zoom rings. They remain crystal clear and sharp as a tack throughout the zoom range. Edge to edge. Better tracking, better everything. Bargain brand FFP , Argos is likely a good choice. But that is where it stops.
Until you use top tier glass, you will not realize this. And then after using top tier glass, you are never going back to bargain brands.
I can well assure you of that.
I have Two Hawke Scopes. Decent scopes for the money. Nice reticles. Compared to My Leupold 6.5-20x44 VX3 EFR the two Hawke scopes are 489.00 pieces of junk ( though much better than Mueller). Easily outclassed by the Leupold in every optical category.
One of the members above stated something to the effect of " Well these are bb guns no use going overboard on optics."
I completely disagree with this for a number of reasons. Guy buys 1500.00 PCP gun, tops it with a bargain brand Mueller. NO.
What you see when looking thru optics is part of the fun. The image quality, perfect contrast, great resolution, on any magnification nothing gets hazey at highest magnification.In short, you SEE the difference. This is exactly what top tier optics offer the buyer. Optics are every bit as important as the gun you choose or the pellets you use. Aside from the gun , optics rank FIRST on the priority list pertaining to " gear."
But you know. Any old scope will work. You could top it off with a 79.00 tasco and that will work too.
Not me. No more cheap bargain brand optics for me. The Meopta 4-16x44 ZD is next on my list. And believe me, it is an absolutely STUNNING rifle scope.
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Great review! It's a shame that Athlon doesn't offer the Argos in 3-12x or 4-16x version that doesn't weigh almost two pounds (29.6 ounces).
Anywhoo....thanks for the excellent write up!
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I also have the Athlon Argos 6x24 ffp scope, and a cheep ebay ffp 4x14 bsa scope. Spend the extra hundred and fifty dollars for the Athlon scope. I would like to try there aries 4.5x27 ffp.
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Wow- EXCELLENT write-up Michael. Thank you!
Very helpful.....
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Notice: This post has been modified to fit the more Sensitive and P.C. atmosphere of the GTA, in the hopes that no one will be offended by any statements written here.
If anyone is offended, or in any other way put off, please feel free to comment to that effect by PM, or on this post. I will try to comply.
You are from Texas so your are Sensitive and PC exempt. ;D
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KnifeMaker,
I took a bit of time to re-read through this thread and enjoyed it again.
Do you have any long term observations on the Athlon 6-24 x 50 FFP and / or new "surprising finds in fine scopes"?
These days I'm partial to a couple of scopes but I still like to hear about the new stuff. My 2 favorites now (not FFP) are the Leupold 6.5-20x40 EFR and the Sightron Big Sky II 4.5-16x42 (discontinued sadly).
Thanks!
Joe
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Knife,
Great thread.
I also would like to know now that it is 2018, your 'current' opinions on the Athlon 6-24 X 50, since you first authored this post. Also, 'any new finds in new airgun scopes?'
As an aside, I am getting a DS Regal XL soon, and I am concerned about the weight of the Athlon and whether or not it will be too much for the Regal. I am wrestling between getting the SWFA 3-15X42 FFP scope (24 oz) vs. a lighter Leupold VX3i FFP scope at 20 oz.
85% of time I will be squirrel and/or rabbit hunting from a bench rest on my deck out into the woods beyond the backyard, and 15% heading to the range once or twice a week shooting from 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards max.
Your thoughts?
Thanks
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Knife,
Great thread.
As an aside, I am getting a DS Regal XL soon, and I am concerned about the weight of the Athlon and whether or not it will be too much for the Regal. I am wrestling between getting the SWFA 3-15X42 FFP scope (24 oz) vs. a lighter Leupold VX3i FFP scope at 20 oz.
Your thoughts?
Thanks
Im curious to know which scope in Leupolds line up , weighs in at 20 ounces , utilizing First focal plane.
Magnification?
Aslo you might want to make sure it focuses inside 50 yards.
By normal standards Leupolds FFP scopes , focus from 50 to infinity, nothing inside 50.
This would make it a poor choice for an airgun. If this is the case.
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Tuned Accuracy,
This is the Leupold Model which is 20.3oz FFP I was making reference to in my last post.
Product Info for Leupold VX-3i LRP 4.5-14x50mm Riflescope, 30mm Tube
When long range hunters, shooters, or precision rifle competitors need extreme accuracy, the VX-3i LRP (Long Range Precision) delivers. The Twilight Max light management system lets you hunt longer, or pick out distant targets from the shadows with unsurpassed clarity and resolution. Choose first or second focal plane reticles in MOA or MIL, with matching adjustment increments to match your specific shooting style. The all new elevation adjustment features a unique travel indicator marked in 5 mil or 5 moa increments, and is easy to read from the prone or difficult shooting positions. An adjustable zero stop prevents over rotation. The windage dial features a protective cover that can be replaced with the included thread protector if you prefer running an exposed dial. A redesigned power selector with included throw lever makes magnification changes quick and easy. The VX-3i LRP defines Versatility.
Features 1/4 MOA target-style click windage and elevation adjustments. Features our exclusive, proprietary Argon/Krypton gas blend, which nearly eliminates the effects of thermal shock, and reduces the diffusion of gases sealed inside your scope even more than our proven nitrogen technology already does. The 30mm maintube offers incredible strength and allows for the greater range of windage and elevation adjustment. Crafted from 6061-T6 aircraft quality aluminum. Blackened lens edges reduce light diffusion, so more usable light reaches the shooter's eye. This results in a brighter image with increased contrast. Exterior lens surfaces are treated with DiamondCoat 2, an ion-assist lens coating, for higher light transmission and the greatest level of abrasion resistance we've ever offered. DiamondCoat 2 has the additional advantage of assisting in light transmission, for greater brightness, clarity and contrast, and will prove its worth in the wildest places on earth. All Leupold optics offer performance that makes them equally at home in hunting or tactical environments, thanks to their outstanding accuracy, legendary ruggedness, and absolute waterproof integrity. Side focus parallax adjustment for fast, easy parallax focusing from any shooting position. Light management means delivering usable light to your eye and forming a crisp, high contrasting image. Lens coatings are applied that maximize light transmission in blue and red, and balancing colors to develop the highest possible contrast. Glare is controlled with special mechanical structures. This means you can see antler tines in dark shadows long after the competition has gone home. The twin bias spring exerts up to 30 percent more holding force on the erector, virtually eliminating erector system backlash and stress on the vital internal workings of the scope, for longer life.
Specifications for Leupold VX-3i LRP 4.5-14x50mm Riflescope, 30mm Tube:
Magnification: Range 4.5 - 14 x, Range 4.8 - 14.3 x
Objective Lens Diameter: 50 mm
Tube Diameter: 30 mm
Finish: Matte
Adjustment Click Value: 1/4 MOA
Additional Features: Twin Bias Spring Erector System, Blackened Lens Edges, Twilight Max Light Management System
W/E Travel at 100 Yds: 110 MOA
Weight: 20.3 oz
Field of View: Range 7.6 - 19 ft at 100 yds
Eye Relief: Range 3.6 - 4.5 in
Length: 12.6 in
Color: Black
Reticle Type: Crosshair
Illumination Type: Non-Illuminated
Weather Resistance: Waterproof
Condition: New
Optical Coating: DiamondCoat 2
Illumination Color: None
Fabric/Material: 6061-T6 Aircraft Grade Aluminum
==============================================================================================
TunedAccuracy - I just re-read your thread on 'being able to have parallax less than 50 yards.' Exactly right, I would not want that restriction on any air gun purchase as it would be totally useless to me if I can't have it at 10 yards preferably. I need to have it from 10-to infinity and as I looked at the specs on the Leupold, I could not determine if the VX3-i LRP I mentioned does / doesn't have it. Do you know or better yet, are there ANY Leupold FFP models that have parallax down to 10 yards? tx.
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TunedAccuracy - I just re-read your thread on 'being able to have parallax less than 50 yards.' Exactly right, I would not want that restriction on any air gun purchase as it would be totally useless to me if I can't have it at 10 yards preferably. I need to have it from 10-to infinity and as I looked at the specs on the Leupold, I could not determine if the VX3-i LRP I mentioned does / doesn't have it. Do you know or better yet, are there ANY Leupold FFP models that have parallax down to 10 yards? tx.
Nope. None that im aware of. That would be nice.
That's why I made mention , so you wouldn't buy the darn thing and find out later that it's 50 to infinity.
The only Leupolds that I know of that focus down to 10 are the EFR models.
3-9 EFR and the 6.5 x 20 EFR.
Neither are FFP scopes. The 6.5 x 20 is designed specifically for airguns. Designated on the gold ring, " airgun."
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...But you know. Any old scope will work. You could top it off with a 79.00 tasco and that will work too.
Not me. No more cheap bargain brand optics for me. The Meopta 4-16x44 ZD is next on my list. And believe me, it is an absolutely STUNNING rifle scope.
I had a conversation with another forum member about this scope brand and haven't heard it mentioned since. I'm glad to see another shooter that thinks it's a good one as I'd like to have one as well.
Also, could you provide a link to your thread: "being able to have parallax less than 50 yards." I did a few searched but was not able to find it. I'd like to check it out. Thanks!
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...But you know. Any old scope will work. You could top it off with a 79.00 tasco and that will work too.
Not me. No more cheap bargain brand optics for me. The Meopta 4-16x44 ZD is next on my list. And believe me, it is an absolutely STUNNING rifle scope.
I had a conversation with another forum member about this scope brand and haven't heard it mentioned since. I'm glad to see another shooter that thinks it's a good one as I'd like to have one as well.
Also, could you provide a link to your thread: "being able to have parallax less than 50 yards." I did a few searched but was not able to find it. I'd like to check it out. Thanks!
The Meopta is fairly expensive. Coming in around 1200.00.
It focuses down to 10 meters to infinity
The optics are stunning to say the least. As good or better than Leupold.
It does have mil dots and an illuminated crosshair. No side focus.
It is a second focal plane scope.
What I like about second focal plane is that you can use the zoom ring to zero the scope at multiple ranges.
The zoom ring can be marked with a dot of red nail polish for various ranges.
Which cannot be done with a first focal plane scope.
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TunedAccuracy - thanks for the follow up.
I actually found the post that made me look at the Meopta Meostar R1 Tactic 4-16x44. I also corresponded with a fellow who had one and he was still superbly impressed with it 3 years later.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1294197045/Should+I+move+up+to+a+Bush+6500+or+a+Meopta+Meostar+-EDIT-+or+a+Sightron+IIBigSky- (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1294197045/Should+I+move+up+to+a+Bush+6500+or+a+Meopta+Meostar+-EDIT-+or+a+Sightron+IIBigSky-)
I'm glad to hear you think so highly of it. I'd like to check it out one day. Of course, when we start talking $1200 + it makes the night and thermal options more tempting.
On a side note, I've still had trouble looking up your post about parallax at 50 yards.
Now that I think of it, I don't believe I've seen any Meopta scopes come up for sale used. Folks must be enjoying them or it's just a small club of people who can appreciate (and afford) such nice glass.
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I'll vouch for the MTC Viper Pro 8 x 30. The custom tape you print up for each pellet/bullet makes it worth the money.