GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: AmBraCol on November 28, 2016, 10:23:02 PM
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Changing the original "Figuratively pulled the trigger on a Hatsan Nova 177" to "Hatsan Nova 177 Has Landed" - future updates on this rifle will be in the more recent postings on this thread.
I've been waiting for some announcement that the Nova has landed, but hadn't heard anything. Yesterday I dropped by pyramydair and low and behold they had the Hatsan Nova listed, with scope and bipod, for a decent price - minus the seasonal discount. Put in a Whatsapp to my relatively local pusher and placed my order. Should be here before Christmas, the Good Lord willing and customs doesn't get too backed up to get things processed...
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Has anyone here picked up one of the Novas yet? There's not much in English about them on the 'net, probably due to the fact that they're only recently released to the U.S. market. It'd be really weird if some guy between the Canal and the Equator got a review done before anyone up in the good ol' US of A - especially considering it won't arrive down here 'til nearly Christmas!
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Just chatted briefly with my
pusher importer. He says that my Nova should land in country tomorrow. Then to wait for gov't to do its thing and hopefully "nationalize" it next week and sent on over prior to my son returning to the US. It'd be great to be able to take him out for the first range trial. Still haven't seen any reviews here of this rifle, which surprises me. It seemed there was some interest in this rifle, albeit in heavier calibers than the 4.5mm I ordered.
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Heard that my Nova should be out of customs today and be shipped out tomorrow. That would put it here on Thursday, the Good Lord willing. Antsy? ME? Naw... who wants to play with a new air rifle anyway?
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Make sure and let us know how it does when you get your paws on it! Hopefully, you'll be wasting ammo by the end of the week ;) If this Hatsan is like all of their other PCPs, you're gonna want to stock up on heavy pellets.
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Well, tracking places the rifle in our city - with a delivery time of around 6:00 p.m. today... antsy? WHO? ME???? Surely not!
So to refresh my memory on some basics of the AT44 action (which, according to my understanding, the Nova is based on) clicked over to YouTube - and found the first video in English I've found of this rifle...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWwlA6Spy4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWwlA6Spy4)
Now, how can I be productive with a rifle floating around town somewhere? Concentrate, must concentrate...
And here's one put up yesterday...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5RcbqZ2uL4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5RcbqZ2uL4)
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Well, just a little while ago there was a clatter in the street out front. Looked through the window and what do I see? The deliveryman looking up at me! Woohoo!
So, paid delivery, signed the form, came back upstairs, cut open the wrapping and there she was!
Removed the importation declaration and bill of sale, removed the bubble wrap, connected it to the Winbest PCP pump by Barska via the included (by the importer, not Hatsan) quick connect and am now up to 150 strokes or so on the pump. It takes a while to go from around 2,500 to 3,600 PSI when one is pumping a 500 CC reservoir. However, once she's wrung out we'll be looking to tune her to 20 FPE or so which should give us a heap of shots between pumping sessions. Time, as they say, will tell.
Yeah, yeah, yeah - I KNOW. Pics or it didn't happen. Well, sooner or later I'll be uploading some. In the meantime, the pump's cooled down and we'll be back at work bringing her up to pressure.
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Here are a few pics for the nonce...
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Very nice! Looking forward to how it shoots for you! Cool spot on the butt of that gun.
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Here's the magazines. Seems weird to call a revolver cylinder a magazine, but that's what it is.
For the curious, here are the dimensions of the magazines.
Front to back of the magazine, not counting the bump around the pivot hole:
0.402"
Longest pellet length (from front of magazine to the bottom of the groove at the rear of the magazine between holes) as best I could measure with my caliper's depth function.
0.389"
Front of the magazine to the back of the bump around the pivot hole.
0.457"
Diameter of the magazine from ratchet point to ratchet point.
1.259"
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Here's the magazines. Seems weird to call a revolver cylinder a magazine, but that's what it is.
For the curious, here are the dimensions of the magazines.
Front to back of the magazine, not counting the bump around the pivot hole:
0.402"
Longest pellet length (from front of magazine to the bottom of the groove at the rear of the magazine between holes) as best I could measure with my caliper's depth function.
0.389"
Front of the magazine to the back of the bump around the pivot hole.
0.457"
Diameter of the magazine from ratchet point to ratchet point.
1.259"
Enough of all that measuring stuff, how does it shoot?? I'm just messing with ya. It looks good, and I can't wait to see what kind of numbers and accuracy you get out of it ;)
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Here's the magazines. Seems weird to call a revolver cylinder a magazine, but that's what it is.
For the curious, here are the dimensions of the magazines.
Front to back of the magazine, not counting the bump around the pivot hole:
0.402"
Longest pellet length (from front of magazine to the bottom of the groove at the rear of the magazine between holes) as best I could measure with my caliper's depth function.
0.389"
Front of the magazine to the back of the bump around the pivot hole.
0.457"
Diameter of the magazine from ratchet point to ratchet point.
1.259"
Enough of all that measuring stuff, how does it shoot?? I'm just messing with ya. It looks good, and I can't wait to see what kind of numbers and accuracy you get out of it ;)
:P
A man does what a man can do. And this man will probably have to wait until next year to actually run some lead through her. :( <sigh>
So in the meantime, when I get a chance, I pick her up and fondle her a bit. Need to weigh her in with that Hubble Scope mounted, but she doesn't feel that heavy. My ProSport with a compact 3-12X44 on her feels heavier than this one. At least in my memory. I've not picked up the ProSport since this one arrived!
I HAVE fired a couple of dry shots. She's not that loud, but there's a noticeable ping. Not terrible, but noticeable. And the trigger needs adjusting. All it takes is time...
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Still no chance to even set up the inside range, but did manage to get a couple other things done. With the Leapers 6-24X56 SWAT scope she weighs right around 12.25 pounds. She doesn't FEEL that heavy, but she is.
The gap for accessing the breech end of the barrel is not very wide (understatement of the year!) but I did manage to get a piece of trimmer string in, but the patch material came right off. The weave was too loose. I did manage to poke a dozen patches through, using the string like a ramrod and pushing them through. Not the best, yet did get SOME crud out. Until such time as some replacement o-rings can be sourced, the barrel will NOT be removed.
Oh, the shroud on the Hatsan Nova did get removed so as to be able to at least remove the top layers of crud from the barrel. It's fairly straight forward.
1. First, remove the end cap. It came right off with just some downward pressure as it was twisted with the butt braced against the ground.
2. Second, the internals were removed and placed in order from the front to the back. two plastic "hair curler" looking things with some kind of fiber stuff wrapped around them then two aluminum ( I believe) cups.
3. Next a 14 mm socket was inserted on a long extension and a ratchet used to remove the nut on the end of the barrel.
4. The shroud then slides right off allowing access to the muzzle for examination (good crown) and allowing for the patches to be pushed through the barrel.
5. Reassembly was in reverse order, slide the shroud on, start the nut by twirling the extensions with one's fingers, tighten with the ratchet (would like to know what kind of torque to use - it shouldn't take much to damage the shroud from over tightening), reinsert the cups then the other "stuff", screw on the end cap.
Dry firing the Nova without the QE shroud proves how effective the shroud is. A LOT more "lead dust" was ejected from the muzzle without the shroud then when it was dry fired with the shroud in place.
Once some o-rings are sourced for the barrel I'll remove it for a thorough cleaning and polish with JB Bore Paste. In the meantime, once other duties are taken care of, I'll shoot her as is to get a baseline for future tweaking.
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You could order an AT-44 maintenance kit from Hatsan. That comes with the barrel o-rings and other various replacement o-rings. I haven't checked, but I'm betting they don't have a Nova maintenance kit listed yet. I'm sure a majority of the o-rings are interchangeable. That is the one I ordered for my Bullboss, and they're all the same parts :)
I just checked, and the kits isn't listed for the Nova, and still not for the Bullboss either. Anyway, the AT-44 stuff should do the trick.
http://www.hatsanusa.com/parts/ (http://www.hatsanusa.com/parts/)
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You could order an AT-44 maintenance kit from Hatsan. That comes with the barrel o-rings and other various replacement o-rings. I haven't checked, but I'm betting they don't have a Nova maintenance kit listed yet. I'm sure a majority of the o-rings are interchangeable. That is the one I ordered for my Bullboss, and they're all the same parts :)
I just checked, and the kits isn't listed for the Nova, and still not for the Bullboss either. Anyway, the AT-44 stuff should do the trick.
http://www.hatsanusa.com/parts/ (http://www.hatsanusa.com/parts/)
Thanks, Donny.
My question is, what size are they? Getting o-rings down here can be problematical and I like to order a goodly number when ordering to make the per-ring cost of shipping more palatable. At $24 for 16 o-rings I'd like to find a less expensive option - but need the sizes. One would assume (and we know what THAT means) that they use "off the shelf" sizes which should be fairly easy to source elsewhere. Shucks, I brought in a pile of Discovery and Benjamin PCP pump rings for a fraction of what they'd have cost from Crosman. Well, got stiffed on the pump rings because I didn't know that Sun Optic sells the rebuild kit so cheap...
Anyway, thanks for the tip. It's good to know I can order right from Hatsan. Now to wait for them to get the Nova schematic up. My guess is that it will be in time for next Christmas, at which time the first Novas will be out of warranty and folks can start doing their own thing instead of sending off to the importers when there's trouble.
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I'm not sure about the sizes, since I always just go to my local hardware store with the o-ring in hand to match it up. Luckily for me, my hardware store has a great selection of metric o-rings. I know someone on here knows the exact sizes, but it ain't me :-[ I would do a search on AT-44 o-ring sizes on here. If that doesn't work, make a post. You shouldn't really need to replace any for a while. Of course, there is the risk of damaging the barrel o-ring if you remove it to clean it. If you do pull the barrel, just make sure and do it carefully, and put some silicon grease on the o-rings when re-installing.
I think there is a standard o-ring that will work for the barrel in a tight if you can't find the metric one. I think it was a number 6? I actually have the parts list for a Bullboss, and it shows the inner barrel o-ring as 4.5x1.5 for .177. It looks like they are showing 8x1.5 for the outer o-rings on the parts list I have. I hope that helps.
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I'm not sure about the sizes, since I always just go to my local hardware store with the o-ring in hand to match it up. Luckily for me, my hardware store has a great selection of metric o-rings. I know someone on here knows the exact sizes, but it ain't me :-[ I would do a search on AT-44 o-ring sizes on here. If that doesn't work, make a post. You shouldn't really need to replace any for a while. Of course, there is the risk of damaging the barrel o-ring if you remove it to clean it. If you do pull the barrel, just make sure and do it carefully, and put some silicon grease on the o-rings when re-installing.
I think there is a standard o-ring that will work for the barrel in a tight if you can't find the metric one. I think it was a number 6? I actually have the parts list for a Bullboss, and it shows the inner barrel o-ring as 4.5x1.5 for .177. It looks like they are showing 8x1.5 for the outer o-rings on the parts list I have. I hope that helps.
Thanks, Donny! The inner barrel o-ring would be the one that seals the probe, correct? Next year I'll go to one of our local parts stores and see if they have those sizes in stock. The barrel needs pulled for a true cleaning, but the possibility of cutting the o-rings without having a possible replacement in hand is holding me back at this point. It'd be a shame to put the rifle out of commission before firing a shot!
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Yesterday I ran about 100 pellets or so through the Nova, but got tons of "Err 3" error messages on the Caldwell Chronograph. I was shooting down the hall using the Caldwell light kit with the Chronograph about 2 feet in front of the muzzle, like I do with my ProSport and 2240, etc. All the error messages were annoying, to say the least. The few good readings showed a very high muzzle velocity which boded ill for the accuracy of this rifle. And this was born out on the target. "Accuracy" was unacceptable (to my standards) although the first shot out of the rifle produced a bullseye. The problem with THAT was the actual aiming point was a couple inches over and down from the bull, an aiming point scribed with a marker in the middle of the paper. Still, had to snap a pic of the bull. ;D
I aired the rifle up again and this morning set the chronograph right in front of the target and shot from the same position as yesterday. This produced the following string, from which I've tossed a couple of Err messages as they contribute nothing to the string. The "True Muzzle Velocity" seems high from the few usable readings yesterday, but any way you look at it, this rifle needs to slow down.
Created: 01-03-2017 09:53:46 AM
Description: Hatsan Nova JSB Exact
Distance to Chrono (FT): 35.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.021
Bullet Weight (gr): 8.440
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
8 1087 22.15 9.17
7 1094 22.43 9.23
6 1094 22.43 9.23
5 1088 22.19 9.18
4 1094 22.43 9.23
3 1082 21.94 9.13
2 1082 21.94 9.13
1 1082 21.94 9.13
Average: 1087.88
StdDev: 5.57
Min: 1082
Max: 1094
Spread: 12
True MV: 1314.26
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Created: 01-03-2017 11:41:58 AM
Description: Hatsan Nova JSB Exact
Notes: 1.5 turns clockwise on power adjuster
Distance to Chrono (FT): 33.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.021
Bullet Weight (gr): 8.440
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
7 940 16.56 7.93
6 931 16.25 7.86
5 930 16.21 7.85
4 926 16.07 7.82
3 904 15.32 7.63
2 920 15.86 7.76
1 916 15.73 7.73
Average: 923.86
StdDev: 11.73
Min: 904
Max: 940
Spread: 36
True MV: 1104.12
OK. Need to air it back up, open a new tin of pellets and do some more serious testing. At least the "Err 3" errors have mostly disappeared. I want to move the Chronograph back towards me a bit to get closer to a muzzle velocity reading, but we're getting closer to what is desired for this rifle, around 900-950 fps. Will try some heavier pellets next, I believe, and see how it is accuracy wise. Have some AirArms 10.3's handy and some older Crosman 10.5's. Haven't been able to source any of the >13's yet, but dearly want to give some a try. That may have to wait 'til someone's coming down or until we head back up north as none of my sources have much interest in bringing them in.
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I did say stock up on heavy pellets.... :D If you don't want to go messing with your valve to slow it down, and you can't back the hammer tension down any more, there is likely one more option. Most of the Hatsans have a spacer between the hammer spring and the hammer. You can replace that with a much thinner spacer(or remove it), and that will give you the equivalent of a couple of turns less hammer pre-load. It will require disassembly of the gun though.
I'm sure it will do much better after you get those velocities down some.
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Yes, indeed. We shall see how it goes when next I get a chance to play with it. It's pretty close to what I was looking for velocity wise, now to see about accuracy.
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Well, this afternoon my wife and I headed out to the new gun club property to give AirBenchrest a whirl. ACTP (Asociación Colombiana de Tiro de Precisión) was doing their first "simultaneo" of 2017, with folks participating in various departments around Colombia. I tried to get different people to come, but only one of the other gun club members was able to come and participate.
My wife and I arrived and carried the equipment downhill about 100-150 yards or so to the space that eventually will become the 50 meter range. We set up a folding table, a couple of chairs, the chronograph and a couple of PVC target stands I built. I then proceeded to record info on my two rifles as I didn't know for sure which one I'd be shooting for record. Both are running in the sub-12 FPE category, the Hatsan Nova surprising me as I wasn't sure how much it had been turned down from the original factory tune that was above the speed of sound.
After some initial putzing around I put up some practice targets and proceeded to check them out. The Hatsan was not grouping well at all with the heavier pellets, but didn't improve very much with the lighter "standard weight" either... but the Air Arms ProSport did not take to shooting off the bags so the Hatsan was decided on. About that time Jaime showed up so we proceeded to check his rifle - and found that his fill station would NOT hook up to the SCUBA tank a friend had loaned me. So he ended up shooting the 2 year old air in his Hammerli AR20FT without topping up.
Once we got the preliminaries taken care of we settled down to business. After taping an official target apiece up on the frames my wife called "TIME!" and we were off with a "pfft". Well, the Hatsan sounds more like "boingfft" and his Hammerli had a bit more bite to it, but it's real fun to shoot without needing ear muffs or plugs.
By the time we'd run through all three cards for the match (25 rounds for score on each one) he was WAY down into the yellow zone of his air tank - but the Hatsan still has another 100 or more shots in it, judging by the gauge. And that in spite of my goofing around prior to starting and shooting at least 3 magazines at each card (those practice bulls need love too!) I'm guessing that at 12 FPE it's going to put out over 200 shots. Lovely! I'm going to try bumping it back up and try it again to see how it does around 20 FPE.
Something's not right with my setup. In spite of a consistent sight picture, no flinching and fairly consistent trigger pull, this rifle was throwing some weird fliers. This cost me a lot of points as there was no way to judge when it would throw them nor in which direction. If I tried to compensate because it appeared to be walking in a certain direction and I'd hold off for the next anticipated change - it was sure to put the shot where the crosshairs were, not where it "should" have been according to the previous three or so shots. I soon learned to hold on and let 'er walk where she would.
Now to go over the rifle, check for any clipping in the QE guts, go over the pellets to see if there's inconsistencies in weight, pull the barrel, give it a good cleaning and then perhaps clean up the crown. This rifle's a HOOT to shoot at 12 FPE off the bags - but it'd be a lot more funner if it would shoot consistently in the accuracy department.
We had a great day at the range. Need to get out and relax like that more often.
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Well, this morning a little something I've been waiting for for the past couple of months has landed...
On the left is the 15 grain "Sniper Magnum", followed by a more typical H&N "Field Target" 8.49 gr and a 7.56 grain Gamo "Match Target" Wadcutter. Sorry it's not clearer, it looked good on the cell phone screen!
Now to find time to get the Hatsan Nova to the range and see what it will do with these pellets. They just barely fit the magazine, something that leads me to suspect that H&N had the Hatsan rifles in mind when they developed this pellet.
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I don't shoot .177 very often, but my Gamo Accu177 hates the Gamo pellets,lol! It does like the Crosman 10.5, and the H&N Barracuda Hunter Extreme 9.5s...
Did you ever find out if it was clipping the shroud, or get your accuracy figured out?
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I don't shoot .177 very often, but my Gamo Accu177 hates the Gamo pellets,lol! It does like the Crosman 10.5, and the H&N Barracuda Hunter Extreme 9.5s...
Did you ever find out if it was clipping the shroud, or get your accuracy figured out?
I haven't had time or opportunity to fire a shot since then. Just got back from a ministry related trip to Bogotá on Friday and have been "playing ketchup" since then. I REALLY need some range time.
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Check the transfer port hole in your barrel. My Nova (.25) had a fairly large bur there and the trailing edge of the hole was rough.
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Check the transfer port hole in your barrel. My Nova (.25) had a fairly large bur there and the trailing edge of the hole was rough.
Thanks. I'll definitely have to pull that barrel one of these days. All it takes is time - which seems to run in short supply around here, at leas for the "wanna do" stuff. The "hazta do" always gets first shot at it...
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I absolutely hear ya! "Stop the world I wanna go shooting" usually falls on deaf ears.
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Today I rebelled and took the time to shoot a few shots indoors, around 9 meters or so. Too close to get a good clear sight picture with my scope so used the top right corner of the squares as an aiming point (aim small, miss small) which accounts for a couple of the groups being along the side of the target box. The group on the top right was shot with H&N Sniper Magnums. Not sure of the velocity, but the rifle was shooting JSB 8.4's at just under 12 FPE. Not being satisfied with the group I pulled the shroud and shot the group at the top left. Point of impact definitely changed - and the group got more ragged.
Out came the allen wrench, off came the barrel. Removed the o-rings, gave it a thorough cleaning. Re-installed the o-rings, re-inserted the barrel, re-installed the shroud, loaded another 10 Sniper Magnums in the magazine and the bottom left group was the result. A bit better (the shot at the bottom right was the first from the newly cleaned barrel) but I want to take this rifle back to the factory tune and give these a try at longer range. All it takes is time and a chance to run out to the gun club...
Now that the barrel's clean I need to try the JSB's again. Oh, and try the Pellet Gauge out on them first just in case. The Sniper Magnums are all VERY uniform, haven't had a chance to try the gauge on anything else yet.
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Yesterday the Nova got hauled out to the rifle range. It's a 50 mile round trip past an expensive toll gate so we don't get out there as often as I'd like. The goal for the day was to see how the construction is doing and then run the Nova and the 2240 over the chronograph. The Nova was set to run 8.44 gr pellets at just under 12 FPE. The 15 gr H&N Sniper Magnums were running between 12 and 15 fpe. WAY too variable for good groups. Anyway, pulled the stock off to adjust the power and the power adjuster would NOT budge. Fiddled with it a while and finally got it to move. Cranked it up to just under 1,000 fps and reassembled. Ran a string and it STILL wasn't grouping like I'd like. Was shooting at around 21 meters. Definitely need to pull the barrel again and recrown it to see what happens. It's got a satisfying THOCK to it when shooting my pellet trap. And even though it's running fairly hot it's not that loud with these heavier pellets. There's a noticeable BOING sound from the air tank on firing, but am not sure how to do a "de-pinger" for this bottle tank. It's really nifty to be able to run as many shots as I did yesterday without having to refill. Those 500 cc's of air last a LONG time at low power!