GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: 454 Big Block Chevy on November 25, 2016, 02:25:59 AM
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Hello GTA!
I have been working on this piece for some time. I have spent several years, with my Air Force Condor SS chambered in .25 caliber. I have pushed this rifle to extremes, in several ways. I have slung 72 grain Jerry’s slugs, to 110+ foot pounds of energy. And I have slung 25.4 grain JSB kings, to 250 fps. And everywhere in between. I have used 24 inch barrels, 18 inch barrels, all factory parts, and the crème of the crop of aftermarket parts. I do have to say, Tony at Talon Tunes does NOT give me anything for free, or am I getting any $ from anyone. Just to be clear. I’m only an extremely happy customer. In my journey to get to where I am, I have discovered a LOT of things. Some of those, to follow!
I’m going to start at the muzzle end of the rifle. My rifle is the SS version. It includes the Sound-loc system from Air Force. It’s extremely effective. I have used the R&L Air guns shroud, and it worked great as well! Not as “clean looking”, but it’s very good. I ended up sticking with the 18” barrel, and using the factory sound-loc system. My preference was made because I wanted a shorter barrel, NOT a broom stick.
Now, I’m using a factory Lothar Walther Air Force barrel. It was however, hand lapped by tony at talon tunes, and polished. It’s extremely accurate, and with the lead cut very slightly to allow for easier loading of slugs, it’s amazing. I have played around with extra barrel bushings installed, to attempt to stiffen up the frame, and I couldn’t tell a difference. So I removed it. Once upon a time, I had a 24 inch barrel, hand lapped by tony as well, and was pushing a high FPE. But, the rifle was heavy, and long. I ultimately went back to an 18 inch, 12mm SS barrel, and had it worked by Tony.
I have installed, a Brass heavy hammer with slap mod, from Talon Tunes. I have done this for the sound deadening reason mainly, but the consistency was there with the valve strikes. I have played around with a few different ways of setting up valve hammers. The factory hammer, and the lighter/shorter air force factory hammer. Both were good, but I just like the talon tunes one.
The hammer spring that I currently use, is a factory spring, with one full coil clipped off, and the end polished slightly. This “reduces” preload, to zero, at 0/0 on power wheel. Giving me a fully adjustable and functional power wheel. A problem with the 12, or 18 inch barreled rifles, is that the Power wheel is relatively NON functional. Even at 0/0 on the power wheel, the rifle is at a high power. I have come to a conclusion on this, and I will do my best to explain it. When the hammer strikes the top hat, or valve stem, air is released from the tank. I call, the time that the valve is open, “dwell time”. I’m sure somewhere there is an actual technical term for this, but this is my usage. Now this “dwell time” is actually in the 10ths or hundredths of a second, but, for easy understanding, I will explain this in “seconds”. Imagine the valve top hat is struck by the hammer. The valve is held open for 10 seconds. The valve releases air for the full 10 seconds. The air release follows a bell curve, less air, when the valve is less open, etc. Well, let’s say a pellet, takes 6 seconds to get out of the barrel. With the valve being open for 10 seconds, that’s a 4 second waste of air. You get a big puff of air out of the end of the barrel, and a lot of noise. The theory behind the power wheel is to reduce the hammer strike. Well, it doesn’t actually work like that. The reason being is that the barrel is short enough, that the pellet leaves the rifle too fast, and the valve basically gets stuck open from too much preload. Well, the solution to this, is a shorter spring. You don’t necessarily want a “lighter spring”, just a shorter one. In an actual perfect world, you want zero preload at 0/0, but a slight preload at 0/1 power wheel. I clipped one full coil and I have achieved a very functional power wheel, my power is still at 50 fpe at 0/0 on the power wheel, because of the added length of the hammer. I may have lost a few fpe off the top end, but I picked that back up with the heavy hammer.
In the breech, (still using factory breech) I use the Talon Tunes 90 Duro O rings, lubed with silicone grease. Supposedly more durable O rings, than the factory, and I honestly didn’t know the difference other than a “tighter” breech fit to the barrel. I would believe this creates a tighter seal, but I never noticed an air leak from that location.
Valve stem or top hat. I use the talon tunes “quick change top hat”. I like the “wide open” aspect, and get fully adjust-ability out of my power wheel. I can further restrict power using the inserts. I have an o ring under my top hat, I don’t have the size, but it’s an amazing upgrade. It works by further cushioning the hammer strike. It will increase your shot string by a lot, and reduce your power by a little. A very good trade off.
Now my favorite upgrade I have done. The Talon Tunes full carbon fiber tank conversion, with drop down adapter, and custom valve. A very expensive upgrade, but it is the BEST thing I have ever done to the rifle. It gets rid of the need for ultra-high scope mounts, or the tri rail (which is a great add-on by itself). The valve is amazing, I don’t know what tony did with the valve. Is it a full custom made valve, or is it an Air Force valve that he modified. I do not know, nor did I ask. All I know is, it’s very consistent and powerful. The Tank gives me a maximum fill pressure of 3625 PSI. With a heavy hammer, wide open, and high pressure, it WILL sling lead very hard. I LOVE this upgrade. However with my current setup, I have 30 shots, at 51 fpe with a 20 fps extreme spread using 33.95 grain JSB king heavies. I fill to 2400 psi, and shoot down from there. It’s efficient and I don’t have to make the “long” drive to my dive shop for air as often.
The "only" trigger mod I performed was removing the auto safety latch. I really wanted to be able to decock the rifle, and this gave me that option.
I have listed the mods I have used, and boy I wish I would have just purchased the full tank conversion from the beginning. It would have saved me a LOT of trial and error. I spent tons of money, buying parts, selling parts, swapping springs, etc. Its knowledge I have gained, and I have a very good understanding of this rifle now. I feel as that I have become a self-proclaimed expert in the Condor or Talon rifles. I have talked to a LOT of people that know a whole lot about these rifles and have compiled all this knowledge. A few folks that I have spoken to, that are extremely knowledgeable are Only1harry, OnebadJ, and more They have taught me much of what i know! These two folks will likely be UNBELIEVABLY happy to help you with anything they can. Ask questions where you need, and I will gladly assist you where I can!!!
454/// Edward
(http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad180/gamikatsu/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160427_111252_zpsspef19js.jpg) (http://s933.photobucket.com/user/gamikatsu/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160427_111252_zpsspef19js.jpg.html)
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A great journey Edward, thanks for sharing the details. I miss my Condor .25, should not have sold that one, but it did allow me to experience a couple other guns, which makes this hobby so kool.
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Nice ! Glad to see you post !
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Thanks for sharing your journey. I also own a Condor SS, was my first PCP. I have enjoyed it in many configurations as well and added some aftermarket parts. The one that I think has made mine more solid is the MadDog stock. This really joins together the rifle and keeps that "center movement" from happening. Currently I have a .257 barrel in mine and am trying to figure out some long range shooting with it. I think I'm going to have to put some better glass up top to make that happen though. The 3-9 I have on it currently just isn't enough to dial in tight at long range.
The Condors are a great platform to play around with and there are tons of simple mods you can do with them to tune them to however you want. I still get mine out on a regular basis to shoot even though I have others types in my collection as well.
Thanks again for sharing, it looks as though you have gained a bunch of knowledge on the Condors. As you stated, there are lots of guys here that have and are willing to share with other members. That is what makes this forum so wonderful for air gun enthusiasts.
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Thanks for sharing Edward!
I am just starting my AirForce Journey and selling all my other air guns off to finance more AirForce rifles!
From what I read I will save my money on mod parts and buy more AF rifles! LOL!
Thanks, Rick
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Hmm I want one lol
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Oh.. Cool, I didn't know yours was blue.. I've had mine for couple years now too. I haven't broken into it yet. But, I'm loving it..
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An update... I am back in the Air Force Airgun business again, just recently acquired an Escape in .25 cal. The tank had a slow leak which defied every easy fix I tried, so off to Airforce it has gone. I look forward to getting it back and mounting the new glass, a Hawke Airmax with the AMX reticle.