GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Ribbonstone on November 09, 2016, 08:51:47 PM
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Last chance for the CO2 fusion.
Seemed to work...but may be "playing possum". Have had a long relationship with this rifle, shooting great for a day or two, then scattering shots all over the place for the next few shooting sessions.
BAsic rifle (with oversized/ribbed/factory "pickle"):
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/ae9fb0ba-4205-4b21-8b7e-005c94492e4c.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/ae9fb0ba-4205-4b21-8b7e-005c94492e4c.jpg.html)
There was one thing I hadn't tired: removing that giant "pickle" of an LDC and checking the crown on the barrel. I kind of dobuted the crown, as that's not likely to be good one dday and bad the next, but the shroud alignment could vary day-to-day.
It's a one-way trip, that LDC isn't made to be taken off....it's made to NOT be taken off. Combination of a groove on the barrel, ring in the goove, larger ring around that, and the shroud kind of molded over that system. Getting it off pretty much destroys it for reuse.
The LDC certainly does work, but it's pretty darned ugly, so destroying it to get at the end of the barrel didn't seem like much of a waste.
Caught me at night (darn daylight savings time) and with just a primer coat on the new LDC (will let it set for a couple of hours before putting on a black finish coating so they'll bond). But I was itching to try to get it sighted in and see if it was shooting well.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/d3c7df34-7103-4688-837d-4c9706ebfe25.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/d3c7df34-7103-4688-837d-4c9706ebfe25.jpg.html)\
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/65140b5b-5f72-4797-8650-8e1aef09e630.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/65140b5b-5f72-4797-8650-8e1aef09e630.jpg.html)
COULD BE that the little touch up on the crown and the new (not gonna move metal made) LDC "cured" it. Could be it's just playing possum again and will break out into scatter shots the next time it's tried on paper.
Past experinece makes me lean to the playing-possume theory, and I half expect it to shoot here-n-there tomorrow (or the next day...or the next).
Once painted black, that skinny LDC is going to look better....but I won't trust it until it has shot well for a few fills.
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Not as deep into it as many of you but....
My theory is that you got it with the crown and LDC. Maybe the synthetic one changed alignment with temp changes. Changes in temp can do interesting things (ripping I-beams out of block walls when holes weren't slotted)
Or..... the shooter shoots this gun differently after shooting other guns?
Groups look good!
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OK...today the possum woke up angry.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/172eda2b-a313-4bf9-8fe0-c4086fa90ad0.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/172eda2b-a313-4bf9-8fe0-c4086fa90ad0.jpg.html)
Same drill I've had with this rifle from the start: one day it's shooting great, next day it's speading the psllets around more randomly.
Yesterday, could pretty well count on it to stay under 3/10ths of an inch at 20 yards.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/295bbf4e-92c3-4d2c-83d2-40b4bf8916ce.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/295bbf4e-92c3-4d2c-83d2-40b4bf8916ce.jpg.html)
Today, it's double that (6/10ths) with pellets from the same tin...same range...same temperature...untouched scope... etc.
Tomorrow this psyco-rifle could be shooting double today's groups...or it could be back to yesterdays.
DONE.
Rather than take it apart, am going to just let it sit in it's dusty corner until I feel like banging my head against this wall again.
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I don't use a lot of expensive scopes and find a lot of times a rifle I haven't shot in the last day or so may have slippage in the zero. Don't know why that would affect additional groupings after zeroing for you, but don't quite know what's happening to your groupings, either. There was no change in YOUR temperament when shooting this recent round was there? I know other members have indicated when they are tired or anxious or unhappy their groupings suffer. For instance, last Saturday I was shooting in the backyard with my little cousin with my Wildcat which is very hold sensitive and my right hand was shaking so bad it was pulling my shot. Not from anything else but me trying too hard. But I'm getting old, too ;D and that little 11 year old was taking my Gamo Cone Collector and hitting a 1" target at 32" yards EVERY time. Never shot an airgun before, but he is a natural. Didn't matter if it was the QB, the Bone Collector, the Wildcat - he hit what he was aiming at with everything. I'm tempted to let him try my RWS 350 Magnum just to see...
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Was also shooting a new MRodAir "plinkster" at the time, which did much better.
But as a check, I dug out an AA 200T and fired a few groups with it. Those rifles have become a "reality check" for me; if I'm grouping poorly with one of them, then it's very likely that my shooting is the question.
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Could it be something in the trigger acting up ... ? just a thought
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Well...could be that I've managed two "dead" scopes in a row....so I'll put a post-it note on the stock to swap scopes again for the next time I feel like giving it a try.
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My Fusion is about two years old. On the average I shoot it every week at a silhouette match held indoors. I shoot the boxed Crosman Premier 7.9 pellets in it. I do not shoot for one hole, but try to enjoy shooting.
I an 74 years old getting weaker and more shakey by the day. This year I am shooting from a bipod, the match is somewhat informal, and those that rest are scored separately. But that rifle shoots, if I was as good as it is, I would score 60 out of 60, the best I have done is 58, due to a lapse of memory in sighting.
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my fusion REALLY liked the JSB 13.43 177 pellets .. in both FPE (around 9) and accuracy those were tops
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NOpe..swapped scopes...still a $)((#. Wasn't always a $)((#, but it's become that way for no reason I can detect. Will set it aside rather than turn cannibal on it, at least for a time.
Hey...not all my cheap guns work out...this seems like one of those times.
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I know the feeling. I have a ruger air magnum, a Chinese knock off of a rws 350 magnum in .177 that I can't do a think with. It's like a 7" grouping at 30 yards. Shoots hard and inaccurately. I don't even know why I still have it other then I don't throw 'em away...
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There is a bone yard here...I think of it as "rust farming".
Gets to a point where you either give it away, ignore it, or take it apart for the things that might be useful in some other airgun. Selling a "knownturd" really isn't an ethical option.
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Exactly; I can't sell it cuz it's so bad. The guilt would destroy me. I may just take it apart and see what silly things I can do with it.
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Yeah i got a few in my rust arsonal also lol . others love em , so guess ill have to fix mine to my liking ;)
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Can you swap the barrel pretty easily?? have you messed with the crown?? are the pellets getting into the barrel undamaged
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It''s not that it can't shoot great...it does on occasion. The next time out, it shoots poorly. Nothing done inbetween tests. It's an intermittent fault of some kind, which is a lot harder to trace down that something that's always wrong.
Last outing, removed the LDC (that's a one-way trip) and examined the crown. Even under magnification, crown looked good, but recrowned it anyway. MAde a new LDC (skinnier) and tested it. Shot great. Tested it the next day, shoot poorly.
Reasonable sure the crown/LDC isn't at fault (and wasn't at fault befor). Velcoity is as uniform as it ever was, which pretty well rules out sear drag, valve malfunction, striker spring binding.
When it does shoot badly, it's mostly a horizontal shift, so I hunted any bedding looseness/shifting and checked the barrel band for binding.
Right now, it sits in the corner until I feel like banging my head against that wall again....or until I realize life's too short and detail strip it into the part's box.
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Horizontal shift? And you're sure it's not you? ;D
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It's not me on all the other rifles (lets just day more than 2 dozen and leave it at that), so why this one?
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so what about swapping the barrel , is it complex?
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Maybe try removing the barrel band if possible.
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Tried no band, losse band, tight band...same deal, shoots great one session, crappy the next.
It has likely been replaced. Have had good results with an Mrodair "plinkster", although faster and only running on a single 12gr. Unless it acts up, that one will be my .177 "sporter" 12gr. co2 and this one will be a "body donor".
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I know you had mentioned as not doing anything between shooting sessions. But does the barrel get really dirty fast after a cleaning which may affect accuracy? Of maybe there's cosmoline still left in the grooves or maybe the machining of the lands and grooves need smoothing out.
Was kind of hesitant of posting knowing your knowledge and background with airguns. If anyone could figure this out I would assume it would be you. ;) GL
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If I leave it alone (not doing anything, including cleaning) for 3 or 4 sessions, it's likely to go back to shooting great for one of those sessions.
Will try it again tomorrow....just to keep score, after the crown clean up and LDC swap, it shot well...nothing touched....next time out it went back to shooting badly....nothing changed...tomorrow's test could go either way...and the next day a 50/50 shot at good or bad.
Would be a lot easier to diagnose if it just stayed crappy all the time....this on/off behavior just doesn't let you figure out what may be wrong.
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OK...here we go again with the co2 Fusion:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/172eda2b-a313-4bf9-8fe0-c4086fa90ad0.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/172eda2b-a313-4bf9-8fe0-c4086fa90ad0.jpg.html)
Tested it (with one 12gr) tonight. Artifical light on target, which still seems to costs me a little bit in accuracy compared to sunlight's brighness, and 5 5-shot groups.
There has been one change from the last outing: a 3rd scope mounted for the 3rd test.
First test:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/65140b5b-5f72-4797-8650-8e1aef09e630.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/65140b5b-5f72-4797-8650-8e1aef09e630.jpg.html)
Second test:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/295bbf4e-92c3-4d2c-83d2-40b4bf8916ce.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/295bbf4e-92c3-4d2c-83d2-40b4bf8916ce.jpg.html)
3rd (tonight's) test:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Fusion/b729aaef-d6f5-4f2b-9cb8-476ea9428bfe.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/Fusion/b729aaef-d6f5-4f2b-9cb8-476ea9428bfe.jpg.html)
The on/off nature of this ones shooting hasn't been traced down yet. When it's "on" it's quite good for a cheap co2 rifle. When it's off, I can beat it with a smooth bore Benjamin 340.
Right now it's "on"...tomorrow is anyone's guess (about 50/50 chance it will be as good...or as bad at that 2nd test).
It has been like this for awhile...on/off...old LDC, old crown, new crown, new LDC, 3 scope swaps, up in power, down in power, barrel band, no barrel band, bedded, not bedded, clean barrel, fouled barrel,1 12gr, 2 12gr, lubed pellets, washed.dry pellets, and all points inbetween.
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Just a thought. If I was to scrap this rifle for parts. I would maybe add two set screws left and right of the receiver too steady the barrel. From your pics it seems most of the inaccuracies are left to right. JMO
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Have you tried chronographing it every time you shoot it to see if maybe velocity is fluctuating casing accuracy swings..?
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I have a fusion and have experienced the same thing, but usually during the same shooting session. I shimmed the rear scope ring so I didn't have to have so much elevation turned into it, and while I think its a good idea I can't say for sure that it fixed the issue.
What I found was that mine did not like anything JSB. I think they my be too soft. My groups looked like it was aiming at 2 different points, giving 2 different groups. Then I switched to H&N FTT 8.64g in 4.51 head size. The point of impact changed, but after re-zeroing, it literally shooting 1 hole 5 shot groups @ 10 yards. In fact the first time I shot that kind of group, I though I missed the target altogether, but upon further inspection, yep, 1 hole.
We recently had a 40F drop in ambient temperature, but after re-zeroing the scope it still shot great.
Can you try any of the H&N FTT's? (preferably in 8.64g at 4.51 head)
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It's been good now for 5 straight tests, so maybe it's cured. Can't point to any particular thing and say "that did it", could be anything down during take down/cleaning/reassembly.
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A bedding/stock flex issues causes poi shifts. Sometimes easier to shim/ bed than chase. Barrels don't come and go and if velo is close your running out of options.