GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Austringer on October 16, 2016, 01:41:13 PM
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OK, so I have a few QB’s and I love the way they feel and shoot, but I find myself longing for some sort of repeater option. I’m not terribly interested in the repeater breaches just yet as I dont care for the extra weight and cost. After all, the cool thing about a QB is the cheap cost and potential high performance right? If I were going to spend close to $400 in parts, I might as well consider a Marauder or similar platform.
OK, to the point. I see there have been two manufactures of repeater mags for stock QB’s. One went out of business and the other is in the UK.http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/132721-qb78-qb79-xs78-xs79-177-multishot-magazine (http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/132721-qb78-qb79-xs78-xs79-177-multishot-magazine) http://www.rowanengineering.com/products3.htm (http://www.rowanengineering.com/products3.htm)
Next best thing I have found is this, but it seems a little too twiddly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDcfUf5RU2A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDcfUf5RU2A)
All I’m looking for is a faster way for a follow-up shot. I have a couple simple ideas, but haven't put them in practice yet. Does anyone else have any ideas, knowledge or experience with any kind of QB magazine, clip, quickloader, technique, whatever which reliably reduces the time required for a follow-up shot. Currently I’m using a pipe insulation bandolier on my scope which is about as convenient as single loading gets.
Thanks
Troy
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The "twiddly" guy later made this improved version-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtnQA508rn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtnQA508rn8)
I was tempted and contacted him for pricing, but after adding up the cost for extra mags and knowing my impatience for waiting for untrackable foreign mail packages, plus the fact that it doesn't work well with extended probes, I just went with the repeater option from AirgunDepot last time they had a 15% off sale code.
I really wish there was a more cost effective way to add repeater capabilities to the QB rifles as well.
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My QB78D came to me modified in a few ways and with one of these mounted:
http://www.airgunartisans.com/AAQBMags.htm (http://www.airgunartisans.com/AAQBMags.htm)
It is a very nicely made magazine, but doesn't feed automatically, and is in fact very fussy to use. Before buying scope mounts for the rifle I hesitated quite a while, as I sort of prefer to have a scope mounted a lot lower than the magazine allows, about 44mm from bore centre to scope optical centre in this case - this gives about 0.5mm clearance between my scope and the magazine. But as I settled on using the rifle with a 1" aluminum tube stock mounted on a delrin rear tube plug, getting my eye low enough to take advantage of a lower scope position was problematic. I didn't want a wooden stock nor a bent tube stock, prefer the tube to be straight, so I settled on the higher scope-to-bore relationship and the resulting further-out first zero intercept for this setup. Since this height is practical for such a stock, I keep the magazine in place much of the time as it is a bit handy.
However, it is a fussy thing to use for a couple of reasons. The lesser 'problem' is that manually rotating the wheel is fiddly, requires a bit of finesse to make sure one rotates the thing just the right amount to engage the ball detent for the next pellet to drop without going too far. Not a huge deal, just takes a bit of focus to get it right.
The bigger problem is that with any pellet I've tried, keeping the rifle upright while dropping the pellet into the tray will often result in the pellet tipping forward when pushing the bolt home. This results in the pellet being smashed into the bore on the diagonal or completely nose-down, jamming it there, requiring a cleaning rod to push it back out before the rifle can be used again. That would not be a good thing in the field if one didn't bring a rod along. If it's just lightly jammed then blowing into the muzzle can free the smashed pellet, but not reliably. With a JSB Monster 25gr pellet this wasn't such a frequent problem as they're so long the pellets do tend to stay flat to the tray, but even these would occasionally jam, and besides this I found that pellet to be awful for accuracy out of my cut-down 13.4" barrel. The 18.13gr JSB tumbled about 1 time in 4. These pellets are the most accurate out of this barrel for me, so I modified the magazine wheel to make it a bit shorter to match this pellet, in an attempt to eliminate the tipping problem. I made it about 0.3mm longer than the JSB pellets, keeping any tipping as they drop free to a minimum... but no, they still tipped, though a bit less frequently. Next I learned to tilt the gun sideways, one way or the other, while rotating the wheel. About 20 degrees either way seems to do the trick. So long as I remember to tilt the rifle I get zero jams. Rolling the pellet down the side of the tray seems to prevent tipping up onto the round nose of the pellet. Fussy, but something I've learned.
Unfortunately this trick doesn't work with JSB RS 13.43gr, which I've recently adopted for HFT... but HFT rules forbid walking from station to station with pellets loaded in a magazine anyway, so not an issue since single loading is necessary for these events. Funny aside; the RS are so short that they tend to stand up on their noses when pushing the bolt forward anyway, so I have to point the QB's muzzle upward while pushing the bolt home. Like one of Gilda Radner's characters used to say, if it's not one thing it's another, it's always something... Anyway, I continue to use the 18gr at home for squirrels and the magazine can be handy at times for that, only because it means all I have to grab is the rifle, no spare pellets for second shots if there happen to be two tree rats in the yard. But if the magazine hadn't been there with the rifle when I bought it I really doubt I would have sought one out. Some neoprene stuck to the rifle or scope works great on the rest of my airguns, a few holes punched in it for a handful of spare pellets. Been using that method for several years on other squirrel and rat guns and it frankly works as fast as operating the magazine.
The only reason I'd seek out a new magazine would be for an automatic one, where pulling back the bolt let the next pellet drop into place. That'd be cool. And there's that Czech guy who offered them briefly on eBay, has a nice video on Youtube, but they're no longer available. Besides which, I'd probably still have to tilt the gun to prevent pellets tilting in the over-large tray at the back of the QB barrel.
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Well, here’s my first try. Very simple and allows for a very quick second shot. I’m calling it the QB Quick Shot. It’s simply a piece of foam positioned over the breach with a slot that accepts a pellet. It holds the pellet solidly so it will not fall out. After shooting a loaded pellet, I cock the gun to the open position, push down on the foamed pellet which drops it into the breach and slide the bolt foreword. I shot about 20 shots with no malfunctions. I’m gona make a couple variations and try one on each of my QB’s. I’ll keep you posted on how it works. Next will be a simple multi shot mag, although this idea will probably suit my original need of a quick second shot as I really dont mind loading one at a time.
Troy
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Just bought a self-indexing magazine kit for my QB carbine, Czech-made: http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/product_info.php/qbar-repeating-magazine-kit-22-caliber-p-959 (http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/product_info.php/qbar-repeating-magazine-kit-22-caliber-p-959)
Here's a YT vid that's from the exporter, I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtnQA508rn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtnQA508rn8)
Some pics:
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I like the magazine pictured immediately above, but it looks like it sells for $120 plus shipping...which seems too high to me. The Rowan engineering model looks to sell for about $60. Does anyone here have experience with the Rowan Engineering 22 cal magazine on a QB 78/79 shooting 18.1 JSB's? http://rowanengineering.com/products3.htm (http://rowanengineering.com/products3.htm)
I'd still like to make something myself, but the time and cost of whatever materials I might have to hunt up makes me think it's not worth my time. I truly can't believe nobody in the US sells a viable magazine for a stock QB rifle. For 40-50 bucks apiece, they would sell like hotcakes...even in plastic I think.
Troy
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Is the Rowan magazine auto-indexing? Doesn't look like it from their own video:
http://youtu.be/asdwSo7859Y (http://youtu.be/asdwSo7859Y)
And the price is £ not $60. That translates to about $73USD. Plus shipping from the UK, I think. Not a bad price but it isn't really directly comparable to an auto-indexing magazine system.
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... it sells for $120 plus shipping...
FWIW, that's 120 Canadian dollars, which, at the current rate, equals to 89.60$ US.
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I never thought about the exchange rate for either the Rowan or Czech made, Canadian distributed unit. All things considered (actual price and shipping) the Czech made one might not be that bad a deal, especially since its auto indexing. I’d just like to read more reviews before buying one...if I cant figure an easy way to make one myself. I tried this evening to manufacture a plexiglass rectangle tube which very tightly accepts my pellets in a vertical tube fashion. The idea was to gravity feed the pellets directly onto the top of the bolt. When the bolt opens, a pellet falls in. Close the bolt and shoot. It worked...sorta, but as I suspected, when pushing the shoot through bolt probe foreward, the probe catches the skirt of the next pellet and jams up the bolt. I could probably fiddle with it and make it work, but I’m of the opinion thers a reason most all manufactures use rotary mags. I’m tempted to start on a rotary mag made from plexiglass, but I’m afraid I will expend my entire weekend doing it with mixed results.
Troy
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Happymechanic, did you buy your Rowan mag from the canadian source? What did hey charge you for shipping and how do you like it so far?
Troy
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Happymechanic, did you buy your Rowan mag from the canadian source? What did hey charge you for shipping and how do you like it so far?
Troy
Yes, I bought it from the Canadian distributor, and to my knowledge, he's the only one selling it in North America. Actually, this is not a Rowan Engineering product, it's a no-brand kit, (very well) made by a single person. However, I just found that if you look down the YT video page at the comments, you'll find the maker/exporter's email address, from which you can get details and order the kit. The guy (Lukas) says he sells the kit for 60$ US if you order direct from him.
I couldn't say exactly how much I paid for shipping, since I ordered many items at once, but I guess you could expect around 8-10$.
So far, I can say I'm really satisfied with the kit. I had some de-burring/smoothing to do, but not badly. It's easy to install and adjust, and once adjusted, it cycles smoothly and precisely with no binding or jamming. There's an installation guide available as a PDF file on the Canadian site (maybe available too from the maker), it's well explained and illustrated. I tried CPHP and Crosman pointed pellets in it, very good fit with some room left for longer pellets. It's a 9-shots magazine, held in place by a strong rare earth magnet, and you can fire single shots without the need for a tray (no mods to the breech). IMHO, totally worth the money :D. I'd have a hard time returning back to single shots only now that I tried this kit ;D.
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OK, I’m getting my mags mixed up. The Rowan mag is not auto indexing. The Czech one is. You are right, the youtube says $60. That seems pretty reasonable for the time it probably takes to make one. I just sent him an email. Thank you!
Troy
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There's an installation guide available as a PDF file on the Canadian site (maybe available too from the maker), it's well explained and illustrated.
Well how about that? :) I'm glad to hear that guide is still getting some use. I drafted it a couple of years ago when Al at Aeromagnum was importing the kits and I thought it was dead nowadays.
But yes, the parts are very high quality machined pieces and it works rather well. The main issue I found was that short, head-heavy pellets may tip over as the magazine indexes forward and drops the pellet into the tray. You can combat it by tilting the rifle but that can be a nuisance if you are at a bench shooting off bags. It wasn't a problem with the JSB 18.1 or 15.9, and those have been outstanding pellets in every QB that has run through my hands so it wasn't a problem for me but just something to take into consideration.
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Jason
Is this the guide you drafted? http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront/instructions/QB_Mag_installation.pdf (http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront/instructions/QB_Mag_installation.pdf)
It sounds like you had good success using this mag. I'm wondering why more people don't use it?
Still pondering making my own, but waiting for a reply from Czech Republic.
Troy
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Yeah, that's my writeup. Like I was saying, I though it went into file 13 a while back. When I read happymecanic's comments, I figured that was it because Lukas was certainly given a copy.
I would have to think the price is what has kept it from taking off. Yeah, there a lot of QB's out there but precious few are modded up like yours, otherwise I don't know too many people who would spend 2/3 the price of the basic rifle to get a magazine. That said, it's probably wildly underpriced in terms of production costs for a machined aluminum assembly of its quality. It's just a stark reality that it would need to be mass produced in an injection molding process to get down to a $30 price point where lots more people could justify it as an affordable luxury.
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Well, I’m on my way trying to build a simple 4 shot magazine, but I have to say that Czech auto indexing magazine is very tempting even at $60. You’re right Jason, if someone could mass produce it at $30 each, a lot more of them would be sold. If you're reading, I’d be interested to know if you suffered any magazine related accuracy issues when you used one of these units?
Never really meant for this thread to be about my little projects. I was hoping someone else had already experimented with magazine ideas of their own they would be willing to share. Oh well, I guess smart folk just graduate to higher quality airguns rather than fiddle with chinese guns?
Thanks
Troy
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I’d be interested to know if you suffered any magazine related accuracy issues when you used one of these units?
No, I tried both the .177 and .22 and didn't have any accuracy issues with them at all. Frankly I don't see any way there could be. The magazine has no sharp edges and the pellets are not squeezed by an O-ring or similar feature that could give rise to scratching or marring the pellets as they index through the magazine and drop into the loading tray.
I was hoping someone else had already experimented with magazine ideas of their own they would be willing to share. Oh well, I guess smart folk just graduate to higher quality airguns rather than fiddle with chinese guns?
Oh, I don't know...depends on how you define smart :D Those with the ability and inclination to tune up a QB will often end up with a rifle that, in terms of energy and accuracy and shot count, will hang with rifles costing easily three times as much. But I'm preaching to the choir. I know you've vanquished ground squirrels with yours out past 100 yards on multiple occasions. Ron does the same with his. To me, that qualifies just fine for smart. 8)
But designing and building an auto-indexing magazine from scratch? Well, that's on a whole 'nuther level. Talking machine design at that point. Even if one is smart enough to design it, it's then almost necessary for him to also be a machinist to carry it to fruition and even then it's only justifiable as a labor of love. As someone who likes to tinker, I think even if I could do it, I would yield to better judgment and pull out the old debit card and feel really smart to drop $60 on a proven product ;D
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Yeah, that's my writeup. Like I was saying, I though it went into file 13 a while back. When I read happymecanic's comments, I figured that was it because Lukas was certainly given a copy.
I would have to think the price is what has kept it from taking off. Yeah, there a lot of QB's out there but precious few are modded up like yours, otherwise I don't know too many people who would spend 2/3 the price of the basic rifle to get a magazine. That said, it's probably wildly underpriced in terms of production costs for a machined aluminum assembly of its quality. It's just a stark reality that it would need to be mass produced in an injection molding process to get down to a $30 price point where lots more people could justify it as an affordable luxury.
Would this Czech magazine work with my QB? Im considering it.
BTW, sent you a message a few days back. Hope you got it.
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Hi Dave, yes it will work with your QB. It's on its way back to you today. I'll send the tracking number tomorrow when we get back from our Cub Scout campout.
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Sounds good enjoy the campout!
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After hand machining a magazine and holder for my QB, I’ve run into some minor stumbling blocks...mostly having to do with wasting time, so I went ahead and ordered one of the Czech auto indexing units. $60 and 3 week wait I expect. I hope it fits on my gun OK. I see happymechanic had to move his scope mounts to get the thing mounted. Looks like a well made unit though. If it works out all right, I’ll post a review.
Troy
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After hand machining a magazine and holder for my QB, I’ve run into some minor stumbling blocks...mostly having to do with wasting time, so I went ahead and ordered one of the Czech auto indexing units. $60 and 3 week wait I expect. I hope it fits on my gun OK. I see happymechanic had to move his scope mounts to get the thing mounted. Looks like a well made unit though. If it works out all right, I’ll post a review.
Troy
I'd love to hear your experiences with the Czech magazine. My QB would benefit from a repeater.
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I wondered if this magazine assy would work on a Fusion or XS60C?
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I wondered if this magazine assy would work on a Fusion or XS60C?
The Fusion/XS60C will take Mrod mags with a bit of machining. Contact Eric @ stalwartarms.com for more information.
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I wondered if this magazine assy would work on a Fusion or XS60C?
Almost. The magazine carrier and magazine do fit as well as on the QB breech, but the lever pivot bolt underneath the rear block interfere with the breech's side on the XS60C. I guess it could be solved by grinding some material off the side of the breech. Also the bolt shoulder of the XS60C is further forward than the QB's, so some lever work would also be necessary, or some grinding of the bolt's shoulder. Probably a Dremel or other rotary power tool with a round carbide bit, a file and some sand paper would be all that's needed to do the work. However, I haven't attempted to do it, so I can't guarantee it would work.