GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Motorhead on October 15, 2016, 12:40:59 AM
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8) Travis of Wicked Air Rifles ... finally got together a project I had been after for near 2 years :o
First was the talks of a FLEX detuned for FT work ... then came along the WARP 8)
Yea baby now we're talkin about a gun that could do Pistol or Rifle duty in the game of Field Target.
This is an R&D project for Wicked Air Rifles behalf to fine tune the operational parameters of this otherwise MAGNUM power pistol to a level of Sub 20 ft lbs.
We're there now at 20 ft lbs per Travis with some internal parts adjusted to drop power ... A LOT !
We will be changing out parts & pieces until we get a VERY BALANCED tune and a killer shot count over the next few months / winter. Stay tuned we're expecting some really dramatic results ;D
So this thread will be on going R&D as we get this little Pocket Rocket tuned for a duty far below it High Power capabilities.
How friggen cool !!!!
Only picture thus far ... (http://airgunguild.com/general-airgun-discussion/ft-warp-for-my-buddy-scott/?action=dlattach;attach=1325;image)
Picture ( Travis took ) is the .177 WARP setting above a Benjamin P-rod w/ carbine stock
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I believe it will be a awesome FT gun. Tensioned carbon shroud over LW barrel and regulated plus pull back bolt and anti bounce hammer design etc etc. Scott is the man for the job and we have 100 and ten percent confidence in his abilities.
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Not able to see picture?
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Not able to see picture?
I see it ... Travis's build post is also up over at the Guild ;) with a few other shots.
http://airgunguild.com/general-airgun-discussion/ft-warp-for-my-buddy-scott/msg11279/#msg11279 (http://airgunguild.com/general-airgun-discussion/ft-warp-for-my-buddy-scott/msg11279/#msg11279)
Once in my hands ( Week or so ) we'll get some High Res pictures taken and start a more defined continuation of this threads R&D purpose ;)
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This will be an interesting "build" to follow.....subscribed!
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Not able to see picture?
I see it ... Travis's build post is also up over at the Guild ;) with a few other shots.
http://airgunguild.com/general-airgun-discussion/ft-warp-for-my-buddy-scott/msg11279/#msg11279 (http://airgunguild.com/general-airgun-discussion/ft-warp-for-my-buddy-scott/msg11279/#msg11279)
Once in my hands ( Week or so ) we'll get some High Res pictures taken and start a more defined continuation of this threads R&D purpose ;)
They don't allow non-members to see pictures there...
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Yep, no pictures there either. Sorry, it didn't happen....LOL (sorry, I couldn't help myself you were just so excited. I know I would be too!)
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We'll get some hosted pictures up next week ... :P
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Thanks Scott and OldPro, we are all looking forward to them!
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We'll get some hosted pictures up next week ... :P
If needed, email them to me and I'll post them.
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Found the image that is not showing:
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/mkdive/IMG_7920_zpsx2007xm7.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/mkdive/media/IMG_7920_zpsx2007xm7.jpg.html)
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I can now see Scott's picture in his post.
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Man....I want a warp. Its the next big ticket item for me. Even before a compressor.
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WOW! On a scale of 1-10 on the cool factor scale, that's about 120! Very Nice.
No wonder Scott was excited.
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Just received my WARP .177 cal prototype @ 1/2 hour ago.
It is larger that i thought it would be, tho still far sub FLEX size.
Initial impression just handling it is very good ! .... Fit & Finish is very nice with a really cool Carbon shroud and telescoping LDC with 3 baffles that allow using none or any quantity pending OAL & hush your wanting.
The TIMNEY trigger is really nice !
Going to be a few days to get some pictures taken and posted ... but at least it's here IN HAND and will get some initial shakedown testing very soon ... Threads about to take off as we get after the task of tuning this WARP into a capable tool for Field Target work 8) 8)
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Subscribing!
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Subscribing!
Ditto
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Looking forward to what you can do,
I think the WARP will really translate well to this application, it's a great platform for diversity as you can have it in .30 cal with big knock down power but it's easily down tunable, I'm looking forward to my .22 barrel kit to come in to see what kind of diversity I can get out of mine since you have pellets in .22 going from 14gr to 34gr,...gonna be fun :)
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An ft version of the rifle would be cool!
There are too many options! Travis has an email from me....Really liking what is being shown
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Open Class!!
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That's great! I too am going to get a .22 barrel for mine eventually such a versatile platform can't wait to see how the .177 does!
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OK ... we have some photo's ....
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0141_zpsarvaws3v.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0142_zps6m3by7qc.jpg)
As delivered it is set up with a Lefty breech ... tho will be ultimately using a Righty so a large side focus wheel can be fitted.
Optics chosen the BSA Tactical 4x14-44 FFP on med Hawke rings.
Stock a fixed length ( Tho it can be cut shorter & will be ) utilizing a FOLDING hinge so compactness is excellent !
Shroud as shown is collapsed, tho does pull out @ 4" allowing the supplied baffles to be inserted.
Little bit of internal fiddling last night we have it running at a lighter power setting of @ 15 ft lbs tossing JSB 8.4's @ 875 fps and the Heavy 10.3's @ 820 fps.
We're currently using a valve that's ported very conservative and will in the next few day being utilizing a WAR valve set that should really amp up the juice to pellet.
Ideally wanting to see @ 18 ft lbs ( 10.3's @ 880 )
BTW were working with just 12" of barrel here on the WARP ... so it barks pretty good at this power level shooting w/o shroud out and no baffles ;D
Thats it for now as we go about massaging the internals :-X
Scott
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You should try a more vertical grip, I recently got one of these: http://www.larue.com/larue-tactical-peg-grip (http://www.larue.com/larue-tactical-peg-grip)
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Ok .... first constructive TUNING update and a recoup 8)
Warp carbine with a Ninja regulated 13 cu in bottle set at @ 1800 psi.
Barrel a 15mm Lothar Walther at @ 12" length
After changing the WAR valves internal seat to one a tad smaller, manufacturing a special shape transfer port while retaining the factory hammer & a soft hammer spring ...... BOOM !!!! Massive power on tap :o
Starting with hammer spring tension backed nearly all the way off we were seeing mid 600 fps range with JSB 10.3's :-[
Within 3-4 turns of increased tension we went past 900 fps ! and within a turn more we were @ 1040 fps and still had more tension available. At this juncture did not even check to see whats left ? ..... thats for another day with some HEAVY .177 pellets ;)
FYI ... 10.3 grains at 1040 fps is just shy of 25 ft lbs !!! .... beast is right and darn impressive out of just 12" of .177 cal barrel on 1.8k pressure.
We backed it down to shoot the 10.3's @ 900 fps and now the actual IN FIELD testing begins ;D
Scott
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Wow! Scary numbers. 25 ft lbs is incredible.
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Nice work, Scott.... Dial that back to <20 FPE for FT and you should get a ton of shots....
Bob
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;) Once you are done tweaking and tuning Travis needs to offer a .177 kit with all the necessary mechanicals and tank for us .25 WARP owners. Talk about versatile I already asked about a a .177 barrel swap out for the one I have coming in a few agonizing days of waiting. ::) ;D ;D
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Subscribed and looking forward to seeing your results Scott!
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Bit more fiddling done earlier in the week.
While previous set up made BIG power was not real happy with the firing cycle when hammer tension was backed off more. Felt the "Lock time" was too long and general feel was sluggish with the heavy OEM hammer getting cycled with a soft spring :P
So .... decided to revisit manufacturing of a Light weight hammer that would have lower friction within tube, accelerate quicker and speed up the lock time considerably.
Went about using a similar design used before having a body of MDS nylon back weighted with aluminum.
Also made hammer have a nose to de-stroke travel some.
Back together again with the same light hammer spring used previously the shot cycle now MUCH FASTER with much increased SHARP SNAP muzzle report over the previous Snap of a longer dwell cycle.
Over the chrony with 10.3's and we're seeing @ 880 fps with some spring gap still present.
Tightening up hammer spring preload into compressed state only gains 15-20 fps.
So with this weight of spring ( Pretty light ) and weight of hammer of @ 50% of the OEM were still making 98% of the power we wanted. * This 10.3's @ 900 fps
Pellet loaded the gun is substantially quieter than previous configuration & shot counts getting better too.
2 entirely different tunes that shot @ similar velocity, tho had completely different feel to them.
What we're finding is that the HEAVY BREATHING attributes of the WARP really can be mellowed out making a sweet small bore .177 purr like a kitten.
Rains here in force and been wet all week !! with no let up forecast well into next week :(
Need some chrony & target time now !!
Scott
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Ok guys here is my take on this platform after shooting the one Scott is working on.....
I WANT ONE
Nice shooter, accurate, and compact.
Unbiased, and unasked for opinion.
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Had to do some quick thinking myself with two weeks of downpours and no relief in sight. My pirate ship door is in full effect
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8) We made a handle for a more comfortable grip in ALL shooting positions ...
Added a telescoping '"Antenna" for a wind flag ...
Added an adjustable Butt plate / pad ...
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0172_zpssu9llgi1.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0173_zps5o4gqvsn.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0170_zpsktvl0yts.jpg)
We're getting closer to a rigged FT gun making it very close to some actual in field FT trials ;D ;D
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Hehehe, love the antenna:-)
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8) Just a recap ....
WARP carbine with a .177 cal 12" barrel, BIG valve, 3K fill @ 2K Reg set pressure, 13 cu in (213cc) bottle, Crosman 10.5 heavy pellet.
Data below shot with the Light hammer & Tapered transfer passage.
Outside air temp @ 57*f Humidity @ 82%
870 864 867 862 874 873 872 869 870 865 / 859 863 863 862 863 862 864 863 867 862 / 869 865 865 860 862 862 865 859 864 862 /
866 865 866 868 865 868 863 874 864 872 / 867 869 866 865 860 864 868 868 867 859 / 869 865 865 869 869 871 866 868 868 869 /
869 873 875 874 867 871 874 876 874 874 / 877 883 879 875 877 877 879 878 875 879 / 876 873 873 866 867 867 872 872 856 854 /
848 845 845 841 838 837 830 828 823 824 ..... 100 shots
Looking at on gun pressure gauge it came off the Reg @ shot 65 ( Start of BOLD numbers ) went up in velocity just a tad as it enters the tail end of the unregulated bell curve and is back at average velocity by @ 84 giving @ 20 more shots under self regulation with just a rise of @ 10-12 fps over the 65 preceding shots ... DANG ;D ;D
Efficiency per Lloyds calculator the first 65 shots at 1.28 using @ 15 psi per shot.
While the efficiency is not stellar :P it is pretty dang good considering the power we're at from just 12" of barrel .... IMO ???
Thats all folks !
Scott
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From a 12" barrel that is just awesome. Good job!
Keep us posted, the want is strong with this one...
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Could you imagine if we put the 480cc 3700psi bottle on it!!!!! You would need a 8 hour day to shoot a shot string LOL
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Weather calmed down ( Wind ) so we shot a couple targets.
10 shots each at 30 yards using Chrony pellets ( Crosman 10.5's ) and KNOWN accurate AA 10.3's ;)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0176_zpshod5gz6w.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0178_zpshyijsgt1.jpg)
YES, that's 10 shots taken off a bucket & shooting sticks at 30 yards 8)
Looking like the WARP .177 is indeed worthy (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/smilies/av-101150.gif)
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Could you imagine if we put the 480cc 3700psi bottle on it!!!!! You would need a 8 hour day to shoot a shot string LOL
How much work is required to swap to a larger bottle ?
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Considering the 12" barrel, that is pretty good efficiency! Nice work! With the big bottle, you could shoot forever, before needing air :D
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The carbon bottles are $190 and takes less than 5 min to put on.
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The carbon bottles are $190 and takes less than 5 min to put on.
Cool is it regulated or is the regulator an available option?
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The reg. is and option
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The reg is and option. Right Now I am getting 2 to 3 magazines per fill with the small bottle. Since I will be using this as a carbine the larger tank is not an issue for me and regulated will just make it a better rifle for my purposes ;D ;D
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We made a Vertical target Grip ....
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=117018.msg1125057#msg1125057 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=117018.msg1125057#msg1125057)
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8) 8)
We had our last of the year NOVEMBER Field Target match last Sunday. Figured the tune was close enough to give it a go in real competition. Took the Optisan Viper 4-16 off my primary HFT gun and mounted it up, did up a quick and fairly close dope sheet just the night before confirming Sun AM during practice where my errors were and did my best to remember as the mornings 58 shot match progressed.
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/_73A0191_zpscamp5yj4.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/_73A0189_zpsodvkjikj.jpg)
The weather was sunny & 60-70*f with nary a breeze ... good day to do some serious testing on Real Steel !!
The WARP .177 shot IMO really dang good, but was a steep learning curve keeping stable such a short & compact carbine.
Quite challenging keeping on target steady as one can with a LONGER more conventional rifle.
Come match end we were able to ink out a 47/58 being @ 80% mark for kills. Our Troyer difficulty for this match in the low 30's so felt for it's first time out to play it held it's own pretty well 8)
Scott
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Looks very modern compared to the tank next to you. I wonder how he did. Sounds like a good day to me. I was scrubbing epoxy grout film off of tile today.
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Bunch of enablers ???
Getting time to decide what my Christmas resent to myself is gonna be.
Charles
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Go for it the .25 I have is awesome can't say enough good about this compact powerhouse. I am having a ball with mine ;) ;D
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Wow, I would say you and the WARP did spectacular Scott. 47/58 x 100 = 81%
I only got 49 out of 60 at our THAGC match this weekend with my Thomas. The wind is not my friend! LOL
High score was 57 by Chris Berry with his Thomas followed by Scott Allen and his Thomas with a 56.
But the guy that amazes me the most in our club is John Ford. He shot a 53 in Hunter Class with an FX Independence and a Centerpoint scope! He's regularly in the 50 club as I call it! LOL
I only recently made the 50 club for the first time at our previous match! Looks like I'm gonna have hard time staying in it! LOL
Plus I'm sorta cheating........shooting Unlimited where pretty much anything goes, but just can't seem to go back to Hunter class after tasting the 30 power on the scope ;-) Been following your progress with your WARP since day one. Thanks for sharing your progress with it!
Jimmy
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Definitely following this review as well.
That's some great shooting for the first outing on the WARP FT gun.
Mike
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Scott...that guy next to you left the price tag on his scope...lol.
Looks like a fun project...nice work.
Mike
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Scott is single handily developing the WARP FT .177 so hats off to my good friend and his efforts. I'm trying really hard to convince him into making the parts for the WARP FT himself and supplying them to WAR. It's all American or nothing!!!
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very nice