GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Optics, Range estimation & related subjects => Topic started by: 1coolcat on September 29, 2016, 12:22:11 AM
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I recently purchased a Benjamin trail NP XL 1500 and it came with a center point scope. This scope leaves alot to be desired.
I didn't want to trash one of my good Leopold scopes on an air rifle so I was looking at the Hawke Sport Optics Vantage SF 4-16x44 SF 1/2 Mil Dot 14161
From what I have been reading the Hawke scopes can handle the recoil with no problems from an air rifle.
Any one have this scope that could chime in.. thought, suggestions welcome
Thanks guys
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Hawke scopes (in my experience) are a good value and a well made scope. I purchased a Hawke Sport for a Nitro Venom and it's held fine for three years. It currently resides on a Diana. The Sport line has been discontinued - I believe it is now the Vantage. I was told although not specifically rated for an airgun it would hold up on all but a magnum but I don't believe magnum is defined.
I also have Sun scopes. Their TAC line and Air A TAC lines are fully warranted like Hawke and the Air A TAC is made for airguns. They will stand behind either. I specifically asked before putting a TAC IV on my Diana 48.
I also have a Leapers UTG Accushot on my Diana 34.
There, that's three brands to check out.
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Robert, fyi, ALL Leupold scopes are airgun rated. The only drawback is parallax setting. You can send it to Leupold and they will set it for whatever distance you want.
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is scope breakage an issue with the NP's or is that just on magnum springers?
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Scope breakage can be a problem with any spring/nitro piston rifle.
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Scope breakage can be a problem with any spring/nitro piston rifle.
Good to know info...
thanks
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One additional feature steel springs have that gas strut guns lack - vibration. If the fore and aft recoil don't kill your scope the vibration can finish it off.
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On spring piston rifles especially, scopes need to be "springer" rated, because the optics need to be braced for that "fore and aft" recoil mentioned above. Nitro pistons are probably a bit smoother than stock springers- which tend to be pretty harsh if not de-tuned. Not as problematic for scopes I would think is the.... I can't think of the right word.... torque generated by the spring untwisting. I would think that affects your shot placement more than the scope.
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I have a center point 3 x 9 x 32 scope that I mounted to my Gamo Bone Collector Bull Whisper in .177. After about 120 shots, it's shaken the lt side mounted illuminated reticle knob right off the gun. Ordering another scope; at least this centerpoint won't hack the hammering of this gun.
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^I have had that same scope for about a year. Same thing happened to mine, the illum. assembly flew right off.
I locktited the 4 little screws that hold them in and that fixed that problem.
However, the turrets now don't move consistently when making adjustments...
Just my opinion, it is not a good scope, hopefully others have better results.
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The trick to setting scopes like that into zero is a few taps with a small block of wood on the scope mount areas to get the clicks you predict it to take to settle out , saves some chasing the bulls eye ;)
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The trick to setting scopes like that into zero is a few taps with a small block of wood on the scope mount areas to get the clicks you predict it to take to settle out , saves some chasing the bulls eye ;)
In my opinion if you need to tap an optic with a block of wood..that means it's junk from the beginning..it will never track correctly..
I have night force, Leopolds, and burris optics on all my center-fire rifles so maybe I'm spoiled. I don't want to spend a lot on a scope for my air rifle ..but I'm willing to pay around 200$ - 250$ for something that will work and hold up..I believe .I was also looking at the Hawke airmax..
What I want is an illuminated mil-dot retical, 4-12×40 mm.. side focus or AO, 1" tube ( just because I already have plenty of rings for 1" )..
I think the 50 mm. Objective look to big on the Benjamin trail rifle..so this is what I want..I don't need anything more then 12×'s power.. but want 12 because I'm getting older and my eyes not so good ..
The illuminated reticle would just be for cool factor..I can take it or leave it..but would rather have it..
I see mixed reviews on the Hawke scopes, but also read they stand behind there product..so if I get a lemon I can send it back for replacement or repair..like Leopold..
Thoughts , suggestions welcome
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Not that I am any kind of authority on springer scopes and it appears so far your last reply has been overlooked for now, you might want to check out Vortex for low-mid level price.
I see a goodly number of PB folks really have a lot of praise for Vortex for this price range.
They seem to have top notch warranty also.
The thread right below this mentions it as well as others I've seen concerning the Vortex Diamondback.
I am sure others will come and offer suggestions so wait for them also.
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Most of my air rifles and PB guns have the Centerpoint 4x16 40mm mildot AO IR, never had one blow apart yet. The G1 has the original crosman scope that came with the gun which is a centerpoint labled differently and still going strong 10 years later. My turkish made Daisy Powerline 1000 has 3x9 32mm on it and has survived that mule kicker. I don't like to spend over $100 for a scope, especially if there a chance of an accident and they do happen from time to time. As for tapping on the scope, I do it to settle it in. I tap it with my fingers but most of the time the scope will settle on it's on. I've never had to send a centerpoint back yet. I have been using this brand of scope for over 10 years now.
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Most of my air rifles and PB guns have the Centerpoint 4x16 40mm mildot AO IR,
Kris, are any of your Centerpoint 40mm AO the current model for sale @Walmart?
The reason I ask I notice some praise the older model while they don't seem to be very enthusiastic with the new one.
I have a good reason for asking since I have a thread asking about the current model specifically concerning using on springers. Do you have any on a NP?
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Most of my air rifles and PB guns have the Centerpoint 4x16 40mm mildot AO IR,
Kris, are any of your Centerpoint 40mm AO the current model for sale @Walmart?
The reason I ask I notice some praise the older model while they don't seem to be very enthusiastic with the new one.
I have a good reason for asking since I have a thread asking about the current model specifically concerning using on springers. Do you have any on a NP?
Walmart has stop selling the mildot version. The new ones are TAGs, the reticle is different. Ebay is your best bet for the older models. You can still get the mildot version from china sellers, just have to find a seller with a 99 or better feed back and has sold several without complaints. A lot of times the used ones haven't been used because some people don't understand how use the mildots or the AO. I have one on a Nitro Venom .22 and never had it come apart yet. That scope is 4 years old.
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^Yes but you are using the older one which doesn't address concerning the current model(s) @Walmart.
I understand they may still be available but I don't do any business with ebay so my loss.
I tend to stay with major retailers or amazon.
Thanks for your time and reply.
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^Yes but you are using the older one which doesn't address concerning the current model(s) @Walmart.
I understand they may still be available but I don't do any business with ebay so my loss.
I tend to stay with major retailers or amazon.
Thanks for your time and reply.
Your Welcome. The new ones that walmart probably will do fine with guns with the heavy recoil but the TAG reticle has sent me looking else where. Aim Sports is another scope company to look at, I have several of their scopes on pistols and rifles.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-9X40-AO-Rimfire-Airgun-10-22-Compact-Scope-P4-Sniper-Free-Shipping-/161956071851?hash=item25b55589ab:g:NK8AAOSwm8VUvrAc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-9X40-AO-Rimfire-Airgun-10-22-Compact-Scope-P4-Sniper-Free-Shipping-/161956071851?hash=item25b55589ab:g:NK8AAOSwm8VUvrAc)
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My cp is/was a 3 x 9 x 32 ir from Walmart. The entire ir knob shook off. Completely. Scope still works and my boy doesn't like a lighted reticle, so it's his now. I went with a hammer scope with locking mount.
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Well I ordered a Hawke scope from PA this weekend.. I have a Burris timberline on a 22 rifle of mine..it's a fantastic little scope AO, 14 power, crystal clear glass....I was going to buy one for my Benjamin trail but couldn't get ahold of anyone at Burris to if it would work on an air rifle so I ordered the Hawke scope..after I placed my order I was talking with Burris Tec. They told me all of there optic should be just fine on an air rifle. At Burris they test for recoil both directions so there optics can take the abuse..for what its worth that is what I was told.
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At Burris they test for recoil both directions so there optics can take the abuse..for what its worth that is what I was told.
My opinion is I suspect most scopes should/would hold up to springers.
Most scopes are designed say here in the states to certain specs.
Then orders are filled in china.
I think for the most part, the materials are probably machined to specs and fairly standard engineering.
The big problem I think is they throw the scopes together and likely have scant quality control provisions after assembly.
'Get it out the door as fast as you can.'
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At Burris they test for recoil both directions so there optics can take the abuse..for what its worth that is what I was told.
My opinion is I suspect most scopes should/would hold up to springers.
Most scopes are designed say here in the states to certain specs.
Then orders are filled in china.
I think for the most part, the materials are probably machined to specs and fairly standard engineering.
The big problem I think is they throw the scopes together and likely have scant quality control provisions after assembly.
'Get it out the door as fast as you can.'
Yeah... NO.
The optics on most scopes are only braced for recoil in ONE direction, not both. Airgun rated scopes are braced in BOTH directions.
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Not to be argumentative but which scopes are strictly springer scopes for use in spring air rifles?
Yes, I am aware some brands/models cater to spring air guns such as centerpoint, hawke, etc.
We have reports that Bushnell AR223, leupold, Nikon as well as other brand/models not specifically designed for springers are working in springers.
What I see is even for regarded brands such as Hawke, centerpoint, etc have failures in springers.
This points to assembly negligence or the fact that vibration eventually causes something to get loose in the scope .
I haven't seen any scope brand literature where extreme special attention is given to construction or beefing up internals or greater care in assembly to make a spring rated scope.
I'd like to see some links that plainly show brands/model(s) that claims 'bullet proof' spring rated air rifle scopes.
That they are taking the extra care that vibration caused by springers and their scopes will holdup over the longterm.
What I think I see is certain brands/models having a lifetime warranty which necessitates the owner to send in his scope when it does fail.
Do we have a master-list of proven model scopes for spring guns here at gatewaytoairguns?
nced says this, taken from here, post #35
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106503.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106503.20)
"Doesn't anyone make a bullet proof lightweight airgun scope that's reasonably priced?"
well....so far I haven't found a scope that lasts more than a few years on my R9 tuned to about 14fpe regardless of the price. That's why it's important to have a good warranty center because it will be needed if you shoot about 1000 shots per month like I used to..."
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Not to be argumentative but which scopes are strictly springer scopes for use in spring air rifles?
Yes, I am aware some brands/models cater to spring air guns such as centerpoint, hawke, etc.
We have reports that Bushnell AR223, leupold, Nikon as well as other brand/models not specifically designed for springers are working in springers.
What I see is even for regarded brands such as Hawke, centerpoint, etc have failures in springers.
This points to assembly negligence or the fact that vibration eventually causes something to get loose in the scope .
I haven't seen any scope brand literature where extreme special attention is given to construction or beefing up internals or greater care in assembly to make a spring rated scope.
I'd like to see some links that plainly show brands/model(s) that claims 'bullet proof' spring rated air rifle scopes.
That they are taking the extra care that vibration caused by springers and their scopes will holdup over the longterm.
What I think I see is certain brands/models having a lifetime warranty which necessitates the owner to send in his scope when it does fail.
Do we have a master-list of proven model scopes for spring guns here at gatewaytoairguns?
nced says this, taken from here, post #35
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106503.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106503.20)
"Doesn't anyone make a bullet proof lightweight airgun scope that's reasonably priced?"
well....so far I haven't found a scope that lasts more than a few years on my R9 tuned to about 14fpe regardless of the price. That's why it's important to have a good warranty center because it will be needed if you shoot about 1000 shots per month like I used to..."
Very good point.
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Not to be argumentative but which scopes are strictly springer scopes for use in spring air rifles?
Yes, I am aware some brands/models cater to spring air guns such as centerpoint, hawke, etc.
We have reports that Bushnell AR223, leupold, Nikon as well as other brand/models not specifically designed for springers are working in springers.
What I see is even for regarded brands such as Hawke, centerpoint, etc have failures in springers.
This points to assembly negligence or the fact that vibration eventually causes something to get loose in the scope .
I haven't seen any scope brand literature where extreme special attention is given to construction or beefing up internals or greater care in assembly to make a spring rated scope.
I'd like to see some links that plainly show brands/model(s) that claims 'bullet proof' spring rated air rifle scopes.
That they are taking the extra care that vibration caused by springers and their scopes will holdup over the longterm.
What I think I see is certain brands/models having a lifetime warranty which necessitates the owner to send in his scope when it does fail.
Do we have a master-list of proven model scopes for spring guns here at gatewaytoairguns?
nced says this, taken from here, post #35
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106503.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106503.20)
"Doesn't anyone make a bullet proof lightweight airgun scope that's reasonably priced?"
well....so far I haven't found a scope that lasts more than a few years on my R9 tuned to about 14fpe regardless of the price. That's why it's important to have a good warranty center because it will be needed if you shoot about 1000 shots per month like I used to..."
Ok. I'll jump off my high-horse right here... Sorry for the "know-it-all" attitude. Sometimes I get the best of myself, and you get the worst... :-[
So I can't provide documentation for my assertion above. I am remembering what I read somewhere by a forum member...
I agree, it would be nice to have documentation on what optics are actually designed to withstand airgun recoil.
I have seen videos of torture test on some scopes. If I remember correctly these videos were for the Optisan line of scopes.
After a lot of browsing and talking to folks like NCEd about scopes, I narrowed my choices down to the Vortex Diamondback and the Optisan Mamba lite from Trenier. Both are moderately pricey (but not like $600 worth of pricey.) I wound up with a Diamondback with the VPlex reticle since it was clearanced at half price $150. Both Optisan and Vortex are good companys and will stand behind their product.