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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Monkeydad1969 on September 14, 2016, 11:19:04 PM
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So I got one and received it this past Monday. Nice LOP. Threaded barrel adapter is a very nice touch. It has a grub screw on it, but I can't remove it, so may be pressed on or adhered. I love the silver safety. So far it has held air for over 48hrs. Here are some pics. Tried to get a good pic of the crown, sorry about the quality. I will chrony tomorrow, but I have shot it from a full fill down to just empty, and it is not getting up to 65 shots. One thing, I noticed oil coming from under the breech at the TP. It passed the tissue test, so once I get some time with it, I will take it apart. I will be doing my tests with the LDC. That is the reason we are buying it, for the ability to use an LDC, plus the price point.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_195913289_zpsyptdvzuj.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_200144279_zpszluqhffz.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_200550325_zpsvr45sqm6.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_200620132_zpsh46dchy5.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_203254359_zpsmsb0tz8l.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_203314458_zpsklmi6ist.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_203436971_zps496pweop.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_203534910_zpspnzmbqzk.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_203611389_zpsrwe5pax7.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160912_222149478_zpszuyn0djq.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160914_195645381_zpssqzosm8t.jpg)
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Thank you for the post and the pictures Joe.
I like that rifle even more now.
Thank you again for the post.
Dave
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Looks like a nice gun, has it got the "Power adjustment screw" on the side like Marauder?
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Looking good Jose!!!!
Best of luck Brother Man
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Looks good, could you please measure the LOP for me.
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OK, so where did you get the Euro version from? How does it compare price wise to the standard Maximus?
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OK, so where did you get the Euro version from? How does it compare price wise to the standard Maximus?
They are listed on Crosman's website. Last I looked they were out of stock, but that was a couple a months ago.
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I was looking REALLY close at this rifle and found on this Maximus YouTube review a 20% off coupon that works on the Crosman e-store:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ4Wqj9mfjo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ4Wqj9mfjo)
So that discount put the price of the Starter Kit (which also comes with a pump and a few other things) at about $280. And if you only wanted the rifle it would be about $176!
AFAIK, if you order from Crosman on Friday shipping is free too!
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What is the thread size on the end of the barrel?
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What is the thread size on the end of the barrel?
Standard 1/2" x 20 AFAIK.
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OK, so where did you get the Euro version from? How does it compare price wise to the standard Maximus?
They are listed on Crosman's website. Last I looked they were out of stock, but that was a couple a months ago.
Just got home and looked on Crosman's site, Maximus Euro models in .177 and .22 are in stock again and are the exact same price as the standard Maximus at $219.
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You realize, of course, that this is a 12 FPE gun. The standard Maximus is more like 20 FPE. I have mine tuned down a bit to about 16 FPE.
redbull 72, There is no velocity adjustment. If you want to change velocity, you need to open up the gun and change things like the hammer spring, transfer port, and possibly the valve (Euro seems like it might be quite restricted somewhere).
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That is the attraction...12 foot pounds just seems "right" for a lot of .177 shooters.
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That is the attraction...12 foot pounds just seems "right" for a lot of .177 shooters.
For springers, anyway.
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Looks like a nice gun, has it got the "Power adjustment screw" on the side like Marauder?
No sir.
Looks good, could you please measure the LOP for me.
14.25"
OK, so where did you get the Euro version from? How does it compare price wise to the standard Maximus?
They are listed on Crosman's website. Last I looked they were out of stock, but that was a couple a months ago.
Yes, are back in stock. Prices are the same on Crosman---which is the only company to get the different versions from. They also offer a Hunter version, comes with scope.
Also, don't think it's 12fpe. Seems to be hitting a little hard. I will chrony tomorrow.
Joe
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Ok thanks for the info, im looking for another .177 than my air arms, but i want a little moore power, maybe another marauder then...
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"Also, don't think it's 12fpe. Seems to be hitting a little hard. I will chrony tomorrow."
That's the main reason why it's the Euro version. To comply with European 12 FPE power limits!
From the Crosman site "Shot count in a PCP has a new name: Maximus Euro. Tuned to the European 12 foot pound standard (800 FPS), the Maximus Euro delivers up to an astounding 65 shots per fill!"
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What is the thread size on the end of the barrel?
Standard 1/2" x 20 AFAIK.
Maybe MonkeyDad could confirm?
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Ok thanks for the info, im looking for another .177 than my air arms, but i want a little moore power, maybe another marauder then...
then you should be looking at the BT65 or an AF Condor ;D
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Ok thanks for the info, im looking for another .177 than my air arms, but i want a little moore power, maybe another marauder then...
then you should be looking at the BT65 or an AF Condor ;D
Hehe, or the Hercules!
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Looking over notes from two Discos tuned down to about 12 foot pounds and a Challenger tuned up to about 12 foot pounds, the 65 shots can be had (and inside of 4% total velocity spread) without even getting "freakishly" efficient. Can't speak to accuracy, that's dependent on the barrel, but the power plant should be able to get to that shot count without anything drastic being done.
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What is the thread size on the end of the barrel?
Standard 1/2" x 20 AFAIK.
Maybe MonkeyDad could confirm?
1/2" UNF
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Also...sorry, I did not chrony tonight. My wife was rear-ended, so I will have to do the numbers this weekend.
Joe
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Also...sorry, I did not chrony tonight. My wife was rear-ended, so I will have to do the numbers this weekend.
Joe
:o :o :o
First things, first. I hope she's alright.
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My wife was rear-ended,
OUCH!
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"Also, don't think it's 12fpe. Seems to be hitting a little hard. I will chrony tomorrow."
That's the main reason why it's the Euro version. To comply with European 12 FPE power limits!
From the Crosman site "Shot count in a PCP has a new name: Maximus Euro. Tuned to the European 12 foot pound standard (800 FPS), the Maximus Euro delivers up to an astounding 65 shots per fill!"
European limits? I think you mean English. The German limit is 5.5 fpe. The French limit is 14 fpe. The Netherlands has no fpe limits since 1997.
The Euro in this instance is simply a matter of branding with a nice story. There is no uniform European airgun power limit. It would in no way surprise me if these guns are a little faster.
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Yes, the prefix Euro is a popular marketing buzzword. They could have added turbo, low carb and anti-oxidant in the name too.
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Yes, the prefix Euro is a popular marketing buzzword. They could have added turbo, low carb and anti-oxidant in the name too.
I bet it is gluten free too!
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And don't forget "All Natural" and "Organic"!
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Yeah...it's a Buzz word....but aren't all of Crsman's names kind of "buzzy". "Maximus"...really?
Airunners with longer meonories may remember that this isn't Crosman's first try and that those threaded longer barrels have been seen before.
When the Discovery was new, they did try and sell them in the UK. Had several strikes against them, not the least of which was the price there, which while towards the UK low end, not nearly as cheap as you'd suspect. Was selling for about 250 pounds in the UK...don't know the exchange rate of the time but it seemed a pretty heavy increase.
Crosman did sell a few of those barrels here in the US as parts, but for various reasons of the time, only a few as "over runs" and then stopped.
The ultimate restrictor of the system is the transfer port. Make it really tiny (like .045-.05") as they do on the Challenger, and you'll not get over 6 foot pounds. MAke it .125" and you'll be at standard US disco size. Likely the Maximus has something about .
Posters are likely right, doesn't have to be exactly sub 12 foot pounds here in the US as there isn't any leagal restriction.
This shot count pretty much stayed in the 3% range (lets say +/-10 fps) wouldn't have passed in a STRICT UK test as one shot did manage to break 12 foot pounds (like 12.02).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/2009PCP/74cdba31-63e2-4fe4-88c3-780d666567f0.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/2009PCP/74cdba31-63e2-4fe4-88c3-780d666567f0.jpg.html)
We'd not sweat 2/100ths of a foot pound...but given an angry anti-airgun inspector (on a bad Monday..after his wife left him...and his cat died)?
NO...I'm betting it would need to be something nearer the 11 foot pound range to come close to the 65 shots quoted in the ads (at least unadjusted/as-issued).
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But are they free range?
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Yes, the prefix Euro is a popular marketing buzzword. They could have added turbo, low carb and anti-oxidant in the name too.
I bet it is gluten free too!
Gluten free is a life saver to some of us who get really sick from it. But believe me if I didn't I would be all over it!
I'm not surprised if an air gun isn't shooting the fps promised just shocked it's more than what's promised as it's usually less.
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And don't forget "All Natural" and "Organic"!
Not in this case... it's got the synthetic stock. ;D
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So, here are some numbers I got the other night. I was shooting the Ruger pellets from Wally World. They are 8gr and were just right for my chrony testing.
Created: 09-22-2016 20:51:21
Description: .177 Maximus Euro
Notes 1: 2kpsi
Notes 2: Ruger HP .52g (8gr)
Distance to Chrono (FT): 20.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 8.000
Altitude (FT): 5280.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
70 571 5.79 4.57
69 580 5.98 4.64
68 590 6.18 4.72
67 599 6.37 4.79
66 607 6.55 4.86
65 615 6.72 4.92
64 614 6.70 4.91
63 627 6.98 5.02
62 636 7.19 5.09
61 642 7.32 5.14
60 651 7.53 5.21
59 651 7.53 5.21
58 658 7.69 5.26
57 667 7.90 5.34
56 668 7.93 5.34
55 674 8.07 5.39
54 677 8.14 5.42
53 679 8.19 5.43
52 694 8.56 5.55
51 696 8.61 5.57
50 694 8.56 5.55
49 701 8.73 5.61
48 706 8.86 5.65
47 710 8.96 5.68
46 712 9.01 5.70
45 716 9.11 5.73
44 722 9.26 5.78
43 718 9.16 5.74
42 730 9.47 5.84
41 736 9.62 5.89
40 732 9.52 5.86
39 735 9.60 5.88
38 734 9.57 5.87
37 740 9.73 5.92
36 745 9.86 5.96
35 752 10.05 6.02
34 751 10.02 6.01
33 754 10.10 6.03
32 755 10.13 6.04
31 749 9.97 5.99
30 758 10.21 6.06
29 763 10.34 6.10
28 760 10.26 6.08
27 759 10.24 6.07
26 763 10.34 6.10
25 766 10.42 6.13
24 760 10.26 6.08
23 771 10.56 6.17
22 766 10.42 6.13
21 769 10.51 6.15
20 766 10.42 6.13
19 770 10.53 6.16
18 762 10.32 6.10
17 767 10.45 6.14
16 762 10.32 6.10
15 762 10.32 6.10
14 764 10.37 6.11
13 763 10.34 6.10
12 774 10.64 6.19
11 770 10.53 6.16
10 766 10.42 6.13
9 761 10.29 6.09
8 772 10.59 6.18
7 768 10.48 6.14
6 771 10.56 6.17
5 770 10.53 6.16
4 763 10.34 6.10
3 760 10.26 6.08
2 770 10.53 6.16
1 770 10.53 6.16
Average: 719.34
StdDev: 57.39
Min: 571
Max: 774
Spread: 203
True MV: 720.98
Shots/sec: 0.03
Group Size (IN): 0.00
I cleaned the barrel earlier this week and it was dirty, but the accuracy went south. It now hates anything domed from Crosman and Benji. But shoots softer lead HP's like a champ. It does seem to prefer most JSB offerings, too.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/IMG_20160922_220600381_zps2ikzquco.jpg)
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Hmm, so the 2k fill starts at the top of the bell curve. Before doing anything more invasive, I would try clipping a coil or two from the hammer spring and try to get a more useful bell curve. Can always shim it back a smidge if you clip off a little too much.
Or of course if you plan to anchor the valve and fill to a higher pressure, that would be another way of approaching it.
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Hmm, so the 2k fill starts at the top of the bell curve. Before doing anything more invasive, I would try clipping a coil or two from the hammer spring and try to get a more useful bell curve. Can always shim it back a smidge if you clip off a little too much.
Or of course if you plan to anchor the valve and fill to a higher pressure, that would be another way of approaching it.
Before clipping coils off the spring, please post the spring size. My regular Maximus had a 0.045" spring, 1.5" x 0.30". There was NO preload. If you were to clip a couple of coils off of that, you would end up with a free flight hammer, with a very large amount of free flight. It might not even have enough left to open the valve.
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Good point. If the length of the spring is already very near a no-preload condition, another approach may be more suitable. Such as perhaps a spring made of lighter wire, although if memory serves there is a big step down from 0.045" / 0.047" so that may not be feasible. Or a lighter hammer. Though pretty soon it seems like a basic SSG arrangement may be a similar effort.
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Joe has quite a few discos/similar creations I'm sure he can find a spare spring to try out somewhere with an RVA
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So, here are some numbers I got the other night. I was shooting the Ruger pellets from Wally World. They are 8gr and were just right for my chrony testing.
Created: 09-22-2016 20:51:21
Description: .177 Maximus Euro
Notes 1: 2kpsi
Notes 2: Ruger HP .52g (8gr)
Distance to Chrono (FT): 20.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 8.000
Altitude (FT): 5280.0
Temp: N/A
Average: 719.34
StdDev: 57.39
Min: 571
Max: 774
Spread: 203
True MV: 720.98
Shots/sec: 0.03
Group Size (IN): 0.00
.(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/IMG_20160922_220600381_zps2ikzquco.jpg)
I doubt that pellet has a better BC then my 39gr .25 cal swaged bullet .. ;- )
wll2506
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BC is not correct for the pellet. I didn't input for that. So you're probably right. So now, you can send me some of your swaged bullets for me to shoot in my .25's. :D
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Monkeydad,
What is the length of that scope with the sunshade? I absolutely love the way it looks on that gun.....
Thank you,
John
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18" with, just over 15" w/o. I love it, too.
Joe
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(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161007_234445209_zpsjurgjfrz.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161007_234505908_zpssgytdptw.jpg)
Seems like Crosman changed up the tubes, valves and screws on the Maximus---on top, compared to a Disco tube---on bottom. But at least the Disco tube fits, right?
Joe
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Interesting shot string.... The first 23 shots are a shallow curve (pretty much on the plateau, actually), and 35 shots before it falls below 4% ES.... Just a touch less hammer spring and I think a 40-50 shot string averaging 10 FPE within a 4% ES should be pretty easy....
Bob
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Yeah, it does have the potential.
Joe
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So, I did go into my Maximus. I wanted to see if it only had 2 valve retaining screws, and that's all it has holding the valve. Screw openings are .275. So if I went that far, why not check out the hammer spring. Very short is the first thought, then how heavy it is. Perfect for a Cothran valve. I have it next to a newer Disco spring (middle) and to a 13XX spring (next to tape measure). I think I'll go for broke and degas then take out the valve. Airgunning minds would like to know.
Joe
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161008_215714508_zpsw5igbeds.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161008_220545216_zpskk5medrx.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161008_220323439_zpsqdu2g41f.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161008_220533587_zpssvdre6qg.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161008_220527029_zps8mijow0y.jpg)