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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Dbez1 on September 07, 2016, 06:29:20 PM
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I have a MAC1 .22 which I love for plinking and small varment control. It's tuned for 20-25 shots. My question is will a .25 reach out significantly more to take out a groundhog say at 50 yards? I have a fellow that will build me a modified QB .25 that will shoot around 900fps for 30 shots with a 3,000 lb fill. Is this a good idea for groundhog hunting purposes?
The other issue I have is my SCUBA tank pressure is 3,000. Will it fill the small bottle on the QB? How hard is it to top off with a Benji pump? Will it be necessary to upgrade to a SCBA tank? I have limited knowledge of HPA and there is no one around me that is into PCP's to ask these questions. Thanks.
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I prefer my .25 (52 FPE) to my .22 (37 FPE) for Marmots (aka Rockchucks), which are similar to a Groundhog.... Either one kills with a fusebox shot, or a heart shot, but the kill zone is a bit bigger with the .25 cal.... With my .30 cal (90 FPE), I don't need to worry about trying to hit the brain, a shot to the vitals (heart/lung) folds them nicely.... If you can hit a quarter with every shot at 50 yards, and you know the anatomy of the skull of your quarry (ie how to hit the brain from any angle).... any caliber, even .177 (with a heavy pellet) will do the trick....
Bob
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While I have taken them with 22 prefer the 25. They are very skittish at 50yds or less. Getting the opportunity for that good shot is my challenge.
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A well placed head shot is a dead chuck. But they are pretty tough animals. Definitely prefer .25
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I have a MAC1 .22 which I love for plinking and small varment control. It's tuned for 20-25 shots. My question is will a .25 reach out significantly more to take out a groundhog say at 50 yards? I have a fellow that will build me a modified QB .25 that will shoot around 900fps for 30 shots with a 3,000 lb fill. Is this a good idea for groundhog hunting purposes?
The other issue I have is my SCUBA tank pressure is 3,000. Will it fill the small bottle on the QB? How hard is it to top off with a Benji pump? Will it be necessary to upgrade to a SCBA tank? I have limited knowledge of HPA and there is no one around me that is into PCP's to ask these questions. Thanks.
Did you place a pin on the Members Map?
That's the quickest way I find members near me to ask questions of.
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I have a MAC1 .22 which I love for plinking and small varment control. It's tuned for 20-25 shots. My question is will a .25 reach out significantly more to take out a groundhog say at 50 yards? I have a fellow that will build me a modified QB .25 that will shoot around 900fps for 30 shots with a 3,000 lb fill. Is this a good idea for groundhog hunting purposes?
The other issue I have is my SCUBA tank pressure is 3,000. Will it fill the small bottle on the QB? How hard is it to top off with a Benji pump? Will it be necessary to upgrade to a SCBA tank? I have limited knowledge of HPA and there is no one around me that is into PCP's to ask these questions. Thanks.
WI have a MAC1 .22 which I love for plinking and small varment control. It's tuned for 20-25 shots. My question is will a .25 reach out significantly more to take out a groundhog say at 50 yards? I have a fellow that will build me a modified QB .25 that will shoot around 900fps for 30 shots with a 3,000 lb fill. Is this a good idea for groundhog hunting purposes?
The other issue I have is my SCUBA tank pressure is 3,000. Will it fill the small bottle on the QB? How hard is it to top off with a Benji pump? Will it be necessary to upgrade to a SCBA tank? I have limited knowledge of HPA and there is no one around me that is into PCP's to ask these questions. Thanks.
I personally doubt that there would be much difference between the .22 and .25 cal PELLET and even a .177 CPL from a 14fpe R9 springer will take out a groundhog with a "between eye and ear" hit!
When I was a young man {pre airgun days} I hunted groundhogs with .22 rimfires and long rifle ammo and found that a rib shot with over 100fpe wouldn't keep a chuck from getting into it's hole 10 foot away unless the spine was hit. I used to take my .308 Winchester on groundhog hunts with 180 grain roundnose handloads (about 2700fpe) for practice prior to deer season and remember vividly one particular groundhog shot offhand at 80 yards. Just as I tripped the trigger a gust of wind caused the crosshair to move from mid chest of the standing groundhog to the left side. The chuck was hit in the left side and was literally spun around with the impact yet it got into it's hole several feet away leaving a six inch piece of gut on the dirt trail through the alfalfa.
My dad raised silver foxes for the fur trade (was rather profitable in those days) so the groundhogs were cleaned and ground up to supplement the "fox diet" so I went back to the house, got a shovel and dug out the dead chuck which was a few feet inside the burrow. After digging out the chuck I found that the hit to the side below the diaphragm and the round nose soft point literally tore away a few square inches of critter. Point of all this is that unless shot placement is good with body shots even 100+fpe .22 cal or 2700+fpe .30 cal doesn't always anchor a chuck! Now if I had used a true 130 grain thin jacket varmint bullet with the .308 at 3200fps (about 2950 fpe) the chuck would have been almost cut in half with a similar hit to the side but even the powerful puffer gun don't have the 100+ fpe output of the "marginal for groundhogs" .22 rimfire!
On a more positive note, I've taken more than a couple groundhogs and raccoons with my .177 cal R9 springer using dome pellets to the noggin at 10-30 yards tuned to a rather stiff (for my .177 R9s) 15fpe..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Hunting/Racoon_R9_1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Hunting/Racoon_R9_1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Hunting/gdhog.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Hunting/gdhog.jpg.html)
I haven't run upon this dreaded squirrel however an I think I'd need steel tipped pellets with my piddly .177 R9 for a double lung shot, but there is still enough uncovered space between eye and ear for a head shot with a CPL ;D...........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Hunting/SquirrelArmor.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Hunting/SquirrelArmor.jpg.html)
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A well placed head shot is a dead chuck. But they are pretty tough animals. Definitely prefer .25
I have to confess I do not live in chuck country. However I spent three summers of my teen years in the Poconos and shot them with a single-shot .22 LR. I learned a lot about the job in those times. If my opinion means anything, I have to recommend using the .25 over the .22. Those varmints are very tough, so don't use a lighter pellet when you can use a heavier pill with a broader cross section.
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A well placed head shot is a dead chuck. But they are pretty tough animals. Definitely prefer .25
I have to confess I do not live in chuck country. However I spent three summers of my teen years in the Poconos and shot them with a single-shot .22 LR. I learned a lot about the job in those times. If my opinion means anything, I have to recommend using the .25 over the .22. Those varmints are very tough, so don't use a lighter pellet when you can use a heavier pill with a broader cross section.
Absolutely. I am very good with a bow and arrow and is my weapon of choice for hunting. I used to stand on my deck and slam them when they went towards my garden at 20+ yards away. Razor sharp broadhead clean through and they still got to their holes!!! After 3 expensive arrows and broadheads I switched to the 22 in their ear!!!
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Thanks to all for your thoughts. I did notice that, on the Crossman chart, a.25 has almost twice the fpe that a.22 does and the suggested kill limit (in yards) is about twice as far (50 vs 25 for a woodchuck). You all seem to be saying that a .25 is the way to go. What about the scuba tank question?
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You all seem to be saying that a .25 is the way to go.
That's not the message I'm getting as I read this thread. The message is any caliber zipped through the brain of a groundhog will promptly result in a former groundhog. Conversely, any caliber put into the vitals of a groundhog will likely result in the shooter reaching for a shovel. Well, either that or accept the smell of a rotting carcass wafting up from the earth for several days.
A quality .25 cal will surely get the job done but only if its barrel likes a high-BC pellet will it have an appreciable advantage in anchoring the groundhogs where they sit. For example, the 25.4gr JSB King in .25 cal has only a slightly better BC than the 10.3gr in .177. A 5mph crosswind would push the .25 cal off course by 1.45in at 50 yards, or the .177 cal by 1.68in. Not much difference at all given inevitable differences in accuracy between two hypothetical guns.
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You all seem to be saying that a .25 is the way to go.
That's not the message I'm getting as I read this thread. The message is any caliber zipped through the brain of a groundhog will promptly result in a former groundhog. Conversely, any caliber put into the vitals of a groundhog will likely result in the shooter reaching for a shovel. Well, either that or accept the smell of a rotting carcass wafting up from the earth for several days.
A quality .25 cal will surely get the job done but only if its barrel likes a high-BC pellet will it have an appreciable advantage in anchoring the groundhogs where they sit. For example, the 25.4gr JSB King in .25 cal has only a slightly better BC than the 10.3gr in .177. A 5mph crosswind would push the .25 cal off course by 1.45in at 50 yards, or the .177 cal by 1.68in. Not much difference at all given inevitable differences in accuracy between two hypothetical guns.
Thanks nervoustrigger. I'm not sure what "BC" means though.
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To Dbez1, while I admire your search for a more reasonable rifle for hogs, I must honestly suggest, this may be a fruitless attempt. I've killed groundhogs with a great range of firearms over many years and, IMO, they are simply not animals that can be hunted in a responsible manner with a .22 or .25 pellet rifle, sorry. I've seen them virtually blown in half with high-velocity center fire cartridges, and still crawl away to a hole. If you are in situation where a pellet rifle is your only option, restrict your shots to circumstances under which you can be assured of a brain shot. When I consider the virtual lack of tissue destruction from hydrostatic shock, and the limited penetration at extended range, a pellet rifle is not in my groundhog arsenal.
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"BC" stands for Ballistic Coefficient, the ability of the pellet to retain energy over a given distance. That is a very basic description, believe me. ;D
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To Dbez1, while I admire your search for a more reasonable rifle for hogs, I must honestly suggest, this may be a fruitless attempt. I've killed groundhogs with a great range of firearms over many years and, IMO, they are simply not animals that can be hunted in a responsible manner with a .22 or .25 pellet rifle, sorry. I've seen them virtually blown in half with high-velocity center fire cartridges, and still crawl away to a hole. If you are in situation where a pellet rifle is your only option, restrict your shots to circumstances under which you can be assured of a brain shot. When I consider the virtual lack of tissue destruction from hydrostatic shock, and the limited penetration at extended range, a pellet rifle is not in my groundhog arsenal.
I hear you Elh. I have a .17 HMR that is good to 150+yards, but even though we live in the country, I still have to be awfully careful about the direction I shoot. An air rifle allows me more safe opportunities although the kill distance is greatly reduced.
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"BC" stands for Ballistic Coefficient, the ability of the pellet to retain energy over a given distance. That is a very basic description, believe me. ;D
Thanks grimeszee. Got it!
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This not my image, I found it on the Internet, but it demonstrates what I think most are trying to say....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Game/Kill%20Zone%20Woodchuck_zpsmv660rji.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Game/Kill%20Zone%20Woodchuck_zpsmv660rji.jpg.html)
I might not agree with the actual zones depicted, and certainly not for "anchoring" the beastie where it stands.... but then again I have shot many Marmots in the brain and had them disappear into a woodpile or burrow if it is close by.... I actually find that a clean heart shot, with a .25 or .30 cal, drops them in their tracks better.... because you don't have "disinhibition" of the nervous system to deal with.... Anyone who has shot a Rabbit through the brain and watched it do backflips several feet in the air.... or watched a Grouse helicopter to treetop level with no brain left in its head.... will know exactly what I am talking about.... If you turn off the nervous system, the muscles continue to fire until they run out of blood/oxygen.... and burrowing animals are preprogrammed to make their burrow.... so guess what?.... they often do.... ::)
Bob
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At some point my brother will have the chance to take out a groundhog that's taken residence under his new shed which is roughly 25 feet to the side of his sighting target. .25 Predator Polymags from his Synrod should do the trick. They are skittish creatures and it bolts for the burrow at the slightest noise or movement from his garage.
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At some point my brother will have the chance to take out a groundhog that's taken residence under his new shed which is roughly 25 feet to the side of his sighting target. .25 Predator Polymags from his Synrod should do the trick. They are skittish creatures and it bolts for the burrow at the slightest noise or movement from his garage.
They are very slick!! When I saw one I would try and open my sliding doors to my deck as quiet as possible. Most times I was busted!!!!
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To the OP - I've never shot a ground hog or had the opportunity. Many others here have vastly more experience at taking small game with air rifles. I've dispatched countless chipmunks with 11fpe 2289g and that's about it.
That said, recently I acquired a .25 Mrod and used it to dispatch two bothersome squirrels and one rabbit that was destroying our flower garden. I used Predator Polymags and took devastating head shots on the rabbit and one of the squirrels.
To Bob's point, they still kicked for a bit afterwards! The rabbit shot was between the eye and the ears and removed that area of the skull upward. The round hit the rabbit with a "WHACK" unlike anything I'd experience previously. I was very impressed! The experience led me to purchasing 4 tins which I split with my brother and we both enjoy this pellet for pesting and even target shooting. It groups and has POI indistinguishable from JSB kings for both of us. We can switch between the two without making any scope adjustments. Target shoot with the JSB and then load some polymag to take out pest birds or critters.
In your case I would lean .25.
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They are skittish creatures and it bolts for the burrow at the slightest noise or movement from his garage.
Yep, that is the breed that has set up under my shed and hedgerow around the yard. ;)
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I always suspected and have confirmed that if you fire a 25.4 pellet doing 940 fps from a Cricket carbine at a distance of 55 yards and it enters the right ear of a 12 lb, ground hog the afor mentioned 12 lb ground hog will be grave yard dead before its nose plows into the dusty earth.
Now you know and no need to fret over it
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I've shot lots of birds with both .22 and .25 airguns. Always go for head shots.
Two results...
1. Bird seems to seize up! Entire body tenses. Feet tense around the branch, and it sits there for a second... then flops over... often still holding on the branch as it bleeds out the head... and finally drops to the ground like a stone. Have a picture of one from this summer still clenching a cicada in it's mouth after it hit the ground.
These are generally shots where the entire cranial mass is emptied.
2. Bird flops around for a while after a head shot. Can do this for several seconds or more... generally trying to fly with it's head in the dirt. (instinct/muscle memory)
That's what BIRDS tend to do with head shots... at least the one's I've shot.
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Definitely prefer .25
No chucks around here, but I can say that my .25 has much more effect on varmints and even steel targets than my .22. Would not trade one for the other, as they both have their strong points.
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OP,
You generally will have more retained energy with a .25 than a .22, and that extra energy will be helpful in stopping a groundhog in it's tracks. Regardless, make sure you know where the groundhog brain is located and that you are capable of hitting it reliably out to whatever distance you will shoot them.
I spent all summer shooting them with my .25 Marauder and will say shot placement is critical. But they drop like a rock when you put one in the brain. Not their head, but in their brain. Go search for my posts in the Hunting forum for a little inspriatIon if you need it.