GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: Mtl_Biker on August 30, 2016, 04:04:34 PM
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I'm looking for my first .22 caliber spring piston rifle. And having a bit of a hard time deciding.
I currently own (in .177) an HW50S and HW97KT (among others) and I like them both but kinda favor the 50S for the size and weight and ease of handling. Plus it's plenty accurate with the chisel barrel lockup. I haven't been able to find an HW50S with the nice Minelli stock in .22 here in Canada or from my European supplier. Only with the cheaper and less attractive stock. And I don't want that. So what I'm trying to figure out is what the opinion here is about the handling and differences between the 50S, HW77K and HW97KT.
I may be leaning towards the HW77K at the moment. It's a very little bit (10mm) shorter overall than the 97 but surprisingly it has a longer barrel (360mm vs. 300mm). And it's about half a pound lighter. I'm guessing that it would feel more like the HW97KT than the 50S, right? I do like the under-lever cocking over a break barrel. Plus it comes with open sights which some other options (HW97, AA TX200) don't. I'd be putting a scope on it so it's not a deal breaker but it's nice to have the option of open sights.
Another gun to consider is the Air Arms TX200 HC. Shorter than the 77K by about 2 inches but a little heavier. But more expensive than the other options. Would be my first Air Arms though.
Thoughts?
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I have not owned any of the Rifles mentioned, but have seen that the HW97 is used competitively more so than other Rifles in Europe. I would try the HW97 for this reason.
I would also consider another Rifle, a Diana Model 54 in .22, I have not tried the .22 version, but if it is as accurate as the .177 with the T06 Trigger I think it would be hard to beat.
E
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I have not owned any of the Rifles mentioned, but have seen that the HW97 is used competitively more so than other Rifles in Europe. I would try the HW97 for this reason.
I would also consider another Rifle, a Diana Model 54 in .22, I have not tried the .22 version, but if it is as accurate as the .177 with the T06 Trigger I think it would be hard to beat.
E
Thanks for your reply, Eric.
Of the guns I listed, I'm least interested in the HW97 in .22. I already have one in .177 and as great as it is, I admit to finding it just a wee bit too large and too heavy for me to shoot well... particularly free hand standing. I use the HW97KT mostly sitting in field target position. I was hoping to find a good and accurate rifle that's both shorter and lighter than the 97, which is why my first choice would have been the 50S if I could have gotten one with the stock I wanted. Second choice would be the 77K. Or maybe the Air Arms TX200 HC which I'm still trying to get opinions about.
The Diana 54 is not for me for two reasons: First of all it's way longer than any of the other rifles I'm looking at (even longer than the HW97KT) and second, there only seem to be two sources for Diana air rifles in Canada (where I am) and neither has it.
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The HW77k and TX200HC are very near the same weight as your HW97k and the lengths are within an inch being the same.
The 50 has a great weight advantage. If you could get an HW99 from the UK it is the same as the European HW50.
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I have the hw97k, hw77, and tx200hc and they all feel heavy. I suspect if there was a noticeable difference my .22 prosport with a light scope and more rearward balance feels significantly different and lighter.
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I'm looking for my first .22 caliber spring piston rifle. And having a bit of a hard time deciding.
I currently own (in .177) an HW50S and HW97KT (among others) and I like them both but kinda favor the 50S for the size and weight and ease of handling. Plus it's plenty accurate with the chisel barrel lockup. I haven't been able to find an HW50S with the nice Minelli stock in .22 here in Canada or from my European supplier. Only with the cheaper and less attractive stock. And I don't want that. So what I'm trying to figure out is what the opinion here is about the handling and differences between the 50S, HW77K and HW97KT.
I may be leaning towards the HW77K at the moment. It's a very little bit (10mm) shorter overall than the 97 but surprisingly it has a longer barrel (360mm vs. 300mm). And it's about half a pound lighter. I'm guessing that it would feel more like the HW97KT than the 50S, right? I do like the under-lever cocking over a break barrel. Plus it comes with open sights which some other options (HW97, AA TX200) don't. I'd be putting a scope on it so it's not a deal breaker but it's nice to have the option of open sights.
Another gun to consider is the Air Arms TX200 HC. Shorter than the 77K by about 2 inches but a little heavier. But more expensive than the other options. Would be my first Air Arms though.
Thoughts?
Well, it may not be one of the choices. Given you've mentioned several under levers but wanting the handling and weight of the 50S; have you considered an HW57 ? Same internals of the 50S but an under lever. Not sure if the Minelli stock is available but it may be an option given your criteria if it is. Otherwise buy two HW50S's one in .177 with the Minelli wood and a .22 with standard wood, swap the stocks and sell the leftover airgun. Stranger things have happened.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/R6j6B/HW57_zpsazvsjkmk.jpg)
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Hey Mtl_Biker,
I have recently purchased the HW30S, HW35E, HW50S, HW95 and HW77K.
So far I prefer the HW50s for ease of handling, and the gun is a fine shooter out to 50 yards. The HW30S is very, very light and a fine shooter too. Matter of fact they're all more accurate than me right now! The HW95 & HW77K will give you more power especially in .22 caliber, but not as fun to shoot at the drop of a hat. Further, the low velocity (.22 cal.) W30S is reported to be a real shooter.
Since they're all accurate and fine guns, it's just a matter of the gun's purpose. To me the HW77K is noticeably heavy, just like the HW30S is noticeably light. For me, the HW50S seems to be the sweet spot other than power; but I'm only 5'8" and 150 lbs. I would think someone 6'2" would find the HW77K perfect.
Lastly, all HW guns that use the screw on receiver plug are of higher build quality, and you pay for it in weight.
Hope this helps...................Kirk
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I recently bought the HW57 .22 and like the size and power. Don't believe the loading port nonsense posted on the net. The issue was corrected many years ago. The 57 feels good in the hand, nicely balanced, and is more accurate than I am. The FO sights are very good. I also have the HW30 in .177. I wanted a little more power but did not want a long heavy rifle. I was considering the HW50 but wanted to try an under lever. No regrets and the .22 pellet is easy to load.
P.S. I don't think it has a Minelli stock.
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The HW77k and TX200HC are very near the same weight as your HW97k and the lengths are within an inch being the same.
The 50 has a great weight advantage. If you could get an HW99 from the UK it is the same as the European HW50.
Is the HW99 a UK only model? That's the only place I've been able to find it and the two suppliers I looked at both said no Internet / Mail Order sales for that model. Any idea why that would be?
The TX200HC is almost 2.5" shorter than the HW97KT. And almost half a pound lighter. So it is an "improvement" from my point of view. The HW77K is between the two.
Maybe I'm nuts for not considering the HW50S with the "inferior" (non-Minelli) stock. Because other than for the stock, it's really pretty much the ideal gun for me.
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I have the hw97k, hw77, and tx200hc and they all feel heavy. I suspect if there was a noticeable difference my .22 prosport with a light scope and more rearward balance feels significantly different and lighter.
The Prosport is longer and heavier than the TX200HC. AND more expensive. But you're the first person I've heard from who has all those guns so it's nice to get your take on the feel and balance.
I wish I could actually see and hold all those guns (I mean the ones I don't have) before buying but unfortunately I'm going to have to buy online without that opportunity.
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Well, it may not be one of the choices. Given you've mentioned several under levers but wanting the handling and weight of the 50S; have you considered an HW57 ? Same internals of the 50S but an under lever. Not sure if the Minelli stock is available but it may be an option given your criteria if it is. Otherwise buy two HW50S's one in .177 with the Minelli wood and a .22 with standard wood, swap the stocks and sell the leftover airgun. Stranger things have happened.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/R6j6B/HW57_zpsazvsjkmk.jpg)
Unfortunately that's a bit out of my reach at the moment.
Maybe I'm wrong in disliking the "inferior" stock, particularly since I've never seen it or held it. I'm just going by reports from others. But I do have a 50S with Minelli stock (.177) which I like very much. I mean, how bad could the other stock be?
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Hey Mtl_Biker,
I have recently purchased the HW30S, HW35E, HW50S, HW95 and HW77K.
So far I prefer the HW50s for ease of handling, and the gun is a fine shooter out to 50 yards. The HW30S is very, very light and a fine shooter too. Matter of fact they're all more accurate than me right now! The HW95 & HW77K will give you more power especially in .22 caliber, but not as fun to shoot at the drop of a hat. Further, the low velocity (.22 cal.) W30S is reported to be a real shooter.
Since they're all accurate and fine guns, it's just a matter of the gun's purpose. To me the HW77K is noticeably heavy, just like the HW30S is noticeably light. For me, the HW50S seems to be the sweet spot other than power; but I'm only 5'8" and 150 lbs. I would think someone 6'2" would find the HW77K perfect.
Lastly, all HW guns that use the screw on receiver plug are of higher build quality, and you pay for it in weight.
Hope this helps...................Kirk
Physically we're not much different, so thank you for your comments.
Does the 50S have that screw on receiver plug? I can't remember which of my guns has it and which doesn't. I'm rethinking my aversion to the "inferior" (non-Minelli) stock on the 50S because other than for that it's probably the best option for what I want.
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I recently bought the HW57 .22 and like the size and power. Don't believe the loading port nonsense posted on the net. The issue was corrected many years ago. The 57 feels good in the hand, nicely balanced, and is more accurate than I am. The FO sights are very good. I also have the HW30 in .177. I wanted a little more power but did not want a long heavy rifle. I was considering the HW50 but wanted to try an under lever. No regrets and the .22 pellet is easy to load.
P.S. I don't think it has a Minelli stock.
The HW57 is not available from any of the dealers here in Canada and neither is it from the European dealer I've also bought from. Buying it in the States is not an option because of prohibitive cost. (Duty was paid when the gun arrived in the US, and duty would have to be paid AGAIN when it comes from the US to Canada - doesn't qualify under NAFTA - and then there's the shipping cost plus very unfavorable exchange rate at the moment. Makes much more sense to buy here in Canada or even import from Europe.)
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50s. Krale now has 22-caliber 50s is in stock.
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50s. Krale now has 22-caliber 50s is in stock.
Yeah, I know. But they've already confirmed to me that those guns do NOT have the Minelli stock.
How bad could the non-Minelli stock be? (I really like the Minelli stock on my .177 HW50S.)
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While I didn't call to verify the website's "in-stock" status at least 3 Canadian dealer sites have the .22 HW50S & HW57 with what appears to be the Minelli stock in question.
Good luck MtlBiker I'm sure your patience will be rewarded.
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While I didn't call to verify the website's "in-stock" status at least 3 Canadian dealer sites have the .22 HW50S & HW57 with what appears to be the Minelli stock in question.
Good luck MtlBiker I'm sure your patience will be rewarded.
THREE Canadian dealer sites? I only know of TWO Canadian dealers for Weihrauch... D&L Airguns and SSSO. And D&L only has the HW50S in .177 and SSSO doesn't have it in any caliber. Neither has the HW57.
Where did you check? And as I said, I only know of two sources. You say 3 that you checked have both the 50S and 57 in stock in .22? What dealers????
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Stock regardless, my Vorteked 50s 22 12fpe is one of the few guns I would never consider selling.
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Hi Eldor
All of ours are in 177, but we do have all three - the 97K, the 77K and the 50S. My two cents, as follows.
You're really talking two different class of guns, here, with the 50S in one class and the the 77K and 97K in the other as far as handling and feel and balance. The 50S is really just a more robust 30S in handling and feel. It's a gun I could easily carry all day long out in the woods and fields. The 50S is a must have gun for my shooting. Ranks right up there with the 30S.
The 77K and 97K are definitely monsters by comparison. These are very typical under levers. While the 77K and the 97K are very similar guns, there are differences and not just in the sights or lack of sights. For one, the comb on the 77K is lower than the comb on the 97K, the lower comb designed to be used with iron sights. For sure, you can use a scope very effectively on the 77K, but it's really designed for those iron sights. Also, without the shroud on the 77K, it has a sharper report to it, more of a crack. The 97K with the shroud definitely sounds more muffled. Not a huge difference in loudness, mind you, but it is there.
I got the 77K, specifically, to shoot with iron sights. Without a scope, it's actually pretty decent as far as balance and weight for my offhand shooting. If you plan to shoot with a scope, though, I see no advantage to the 77K other than having iron sights as an option at some time. With a scope, both guns feel pretty much the same in the hand. For shooting with a scope, I'd go right to the 97K.
As for the TX HC, same weight class as the 77K/97K, but even a bit more rearward balance for offhand work. Cocking effort, though, is WAY more than with the HWs. If you want an AA with superb balance for offhand work or for carry and one that is smooth and easy (and quiet) to cock, the only way to go is the ProSport. My favorite AA, by far.
Hope this helps. Best of luck.
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While I didn't call to verify the website's "in-stock" status at least 3 Canadian dealer sites have the .22 HW50S & HW57 with what appears to be the Minelli stock in question.
Good luck MtlBiker I'm sure your patience will be rewarded.
Just as a follow up to your post...
There are only TWO Canadian Weihrauch dealers. Not three. And of those two (the names I mentioned in my last reply) NEITHER ONE lists the HW50S in .22 (although one does list it in .177) and neither one lists or stocks the HW57 at all. Those would however be available on a special order basis, meaning months of waiting. So I don't understand what prompted you to make such a statement that 3 dealers in Canada list the ".22 HW50S & HW57".
If you do a Google search for "Weihrauch Canada" (as you probably did) there are other companies which appear, but they are NOT Weihrauch dealers. They appear simply because of web search engine optimization (an example would be AirGunSource). That's not to say they are not good dealers, but just that they are not Weihrauch dealers. They're simply trying to catch anyone in Canada looking for an airgun.
Cheers!
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Hi Eldor
All of ours are in 177, but we do have all three - the 97K, the 77K and the 50S. My two cents, as follows.
You're really talking two different class of guns, here, with the 50S in one class and the the 77K and 97K in the other as far as handling and feel and balance. The 50S is really just a more robust 30S in handling and feel. It's a gun I could easily carry all day long out in the woods and fields. The 50S is a must have gun for my shooting. Ranks right up there with the 30S.
The 77K and 97K are definitely monsters by comparison. These are very typical under levers. While the 77K and the 97K are very similar guns, there are differences and not just in the sights or lack of sights. For one, the comb on the 77K is lower than the comb on the 97K, the lower comb designed to be used with iron sights. For sure, you can use a scope very effectively on the 77K, but it's really designed for those iron sights. Also, without the shroud on the 77K, it has a sharper report to it, more of a crack. The 97K with the shroud definitely sounds more muffled. Not a huge difference in loudness, mind you, but it is there.
I got the 77K, specifically, to shoot with iron sights. Without a scope, it's actually pretty decent as far as balance and weight for my offhand shooting. If you plan to shoot with a scope, though, I see no advantage to the 77K other than having iron sights as an option at some time. With a scope, both guns feel pretty much the same in the hand. For shooting with a scope, I'd go right to the 97K.
As for the TX HC, same weight class as the 77K/97K, but even a bit more rearward balance for offhand work. Cocking effort, though, is WAY more than with the HWs. If you want an AA with superb balance for offhand work or for carry and one that is smooth and easy (and quiet) to cock, the only way to go is the ProSport. My favorite AA, by far.
Hope this helps. Best of luck.
Terrific reply, Joanie!! Thanks very much and yes, it certainly does help.
I'm going to give up on getting the Minelli stock on the HW50S and go with the plainer less-interesting stock because that seems to be all that I can get these days. The 50S has certainly become my most favorite springer, although I do like the HW97KT for field target. I'm glad you put the HW77K into perspective for me. Thanks again.
What I'm *probably* going to do is get the HW50S .22 with plain stock and if the stock really bothers me, I'll swap with the stock on my .177 HW50S. And then probably sell both my HW30S (black stock with nickel barrel) and the .177 HW50S (nickel barrel), keeping only the .22 HW50S and the HW97KT as my springers. I do have a Feinwerkbau 602 match rifle for 10-meter competition and I have a new CZ200S "Green" (with fully adjustable one-piece stock) on order to replace the CZ200T I sold. Plus with my Steyr EVO-10 match pistol, I probably have more than enough guns to play with.
Very best regards!!!
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Mtl_Biker,
The newer HW50S stock shouldn't be viewed as a liability, some folks may prefer its darker color or not even recognize the difference. I would certainly NOT let the stock (version) dictate your decision.
The HW guns having the higher build quality are the HW35, HW77, HW80, HW90 and HW97. They're more robust and better machines, with the downside of weighing more. Weihrauch likely considerers these models to be their top of class, spring air guns.
If you ever sell the HW50S - nickel, I'd like to buy it .................................. Kirk
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Maybe I'm nuts for not considering the HW50S with the "inferior" (non-Minelli) stock. Because other than for the stock, it's really pretty much the ideal gun for me.
Does anyone have pics of the Minelli and non-Minelli stocks for the 50S? I'm just curious...
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I'm looking for my first .22 caliber spring piston rifle. And having a bit of a hard time deciding.
I currently own (in .177) an HW50S and HW97KT (among others) and I like them both but kinda favor the 50S for the size and weight and ease of handling. Plus it's plenty accurate with the chisel barrel lockup. I haven't been able to find an HW50S with the nice Minelli stock in .22 here in Canada or from my European supplier. Only with the cheaper and less attractive stock. And I don't want that. So what I'm trying to figure out is what the opinion here is about the handling and differences between the 50S, HW77K and HW97KT.
I may be leaning towards the HW77K at the moment. It's a very little bit (10mm) shorter overall than the 97 but surprisingly it has a longer barrel (360mm vs. 300mm). And it's about half a pound lighter. I'm guessing that it would feel more like the HW97KT than the 50S, right? I do like the under-lever cocking over a break barrel. Plus it comes with open sights which some other options (HW97, AA TX200) don't. I'd be putting a scope on it so it's not a deal breaker but it's nice to have the option of open sights.
Another gun to consider is the Air Arms TX200 HC. Shorter than the 77K by about 2 inches but a little heavier. But more expensive than the other options. Would be my first Air Arms though.
Thoughts?
Well, it may not be one of the choices. Given you've mentioned several under levers but wanting the handling and weight of the 50S; have you considered an HW57 ? Same internals of the 50S but an under lever. Not sure if the Minelli stock is available but it may be an option given your criteria if it is. Otherwise buy two HW50S's one in .177 with the Minelli wood and a .22 with standard wood, swap the stocks and sell the leftover airgun. Stranger things have happened.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/R6j6B/HW57_zpsazvsjkmk.jpg)
Mtl Biker,
I would have never thought about it but after re-reading you post I looked at my 57 and, FWIW, it does have a Minelli stock.