GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Topic started by: Zebra on August 25, 2016, 12:22:44 AM
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For anyone looking to machine aluminum billet for a one-time hobby project, I recommend trying a cheap angle grinder.
I got one from Home Depot for $40 and with a $3 grinding wheel, it made short work of a fairly think slab of aluminum billet. You'll go through grinding wheels fairly quickly but they are cheap.
The angle grinder removed material significantly faster than trying to use an end mill bit with a drill press. It was much safer too.
I'm making a bedding block. I haven't finished yet but I've been able to cut a channel in the billet with lines that are straight enough to finish off perfect with some hand files. It's so much quicker than any other rotary tool I've tried.
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nt
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mounted the grinder above a 2 axis vice, u may have no need for filing after.
What did you mount the grinder to?
I was thinking of mounting the grinder on an X Y vise and just using a regular vice for the aluminum billet. I just don't have that much travel in my X Y vise. I have around 4" and the part will be 8". If I turn the part half way then I run into alignment issues and I'm back to filing....
Still, finishing with a file is not too bad. The files I have are cheap but they remove a surprising amount of material for what they are. I wouldn't want to do more than straightening a few edges though...
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nt
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I think there are solutions to mount tools on longer tracks but they are more than I want to spend for one off project.
I have been drawing guide lines on the metal and following them with the angle grinder. It works well enough. It will still take me a while to grind a deep (ish) channel in the block of aluminum though.
I have to say, metal work is a lot more fun when your tool grinds properly. Everything I tried with a dremel or drill was painfully slow and no fun at all. A few seconds with a $40 angle grinder and you can see a deep groove cut into the metal.
I've been watching YouTube clips of people using wood lathes on aluminum. It's interesting because they seem to be way cheaper than metal lathes.
quote author=Rob M link=topic=113735.msg1090347#msg1090347 date=1472136838]
i see its for big work.. post pics when u can , and yes i was imagining the small drill press vices which have little travel. I dont have one mounted but was picturing a homebrew jig
[/quote]
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nt
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like this with the grinding tool overhead and vice below.. heck you may figure out how to mount other tools to it and spped uup the work while getting a better result.. all speculation ;D
(http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/robnewyork50/router%20table.jpg) (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/robnewyork50/media/router%20table.jpg.html)
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That looks awesome!
I could probably make something like that but it's a project in it's own right.
I'll see how I get on with using wood lathes with aluminum. I read that people use lathes for milling too.
The good thing about wood lathes, other than the low price, is that even the cheap ones seem to be made to turn larger pieces so using them to make custom stock might not be an issue. I just need to find out how safe it is using one with aluminum and figure out how to choose a chuck. The wood lathes all seem to come without one and no instructions on which ones would fit etc...
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nt
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nt
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nt
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Abrasive grinders are not meant to work aluminum. Not a grinding wheel, not a grinding disc. There is an issue of loading the wheel .. it becomes unbalanced and unstable. It's not advisable. With the application of WAX, aluminum can be dressed, but for any major material removal, don't risk it. It certainly is possible but it's not the right way to do it.
http://web.mit.edu/machineshop/Grinder/aluminum.html (http://web.mit.edu/machineshop/Grinder/aluminum.html)
Search the web, there a LOT of resources that will say the same thing.
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I have a lathe and a mill now but believe me there was a time when I built all kinds of contraptions to work with and they did the job. My first spring compressor was something to be desired, its a wonder I still have all my body parts. David
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You'll never see me grinding aluminum. Seen people get hurt doing it.
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The grinding discs I use on my angle grinder are made for metal. If they work on steel, they are fine on aluminum. It cuts through thick billet like butter. Ok.... not exactly butter but definitely like hard wood.
As for safety, I clamp down the aluminum and clamp the vise to the bench. I wear eye and face protection. I use hand protection. Nothing is 100% safe with metal work but I am satisfied that I have taken enough precautions to make the risk level acceptable for the odd DIY project.
I think the two risks are: the aluminum being launched at you and the disc on the rotary tool flying off and embedding itself in your head. The first is covered but I am far more concerned with the second.
I only use new grinding discs on metal and I regularly stop to make sure they are still tightly attached.
Btw, I had read a bunch of stuff from people who use wood routers on aluminum. They say it works fairly well for shallow cuts and outside detail. I would be more inclined to try that as a DIY milling solution for softer metal than a drill press. Nobody thinks a drill press is a safe metal milling option.
I have a cheap Ryobi drill press. It has the worst build quality of any product I own. There is no way I would get away with doing anything except drilling. It's hardly safe even for that... The people that converted drill presses to mills on YouTube switched out the drill chuck for a metal mill colet. That is the only hack I would consider.
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Using a cut off wheel or grinding wheel on aluminium?
Just work slow and check the wheel often.
I keep a good wire brush handy to clean things if need be or replace the wheels.
Glad you do wear the proper safety equipment and take care to clamp things properly.
I do demolition work all over the U.S.A. and a grinder is standard equipment for us.
The one thing I hate the most is when a cut off wheel or grinding wheel explodes!
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I say "do what you like in your own shop!" but don't advise others to do something that is KNOWN to be dangerous and unsafe. If you don't have the right tools, find somebody that does or move along. This thread should be locked.
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Known to be dangerous is pretty much everything being done in this gate.
Cutting aluminium with a grinder is not that big a deal.
I do it all the time with proper safety equipment and knowing the limitations of my equipment.
The key to it all is to work slow and inspect your gear.
Taking the advise from a interwebz site?
I'd be a outta work Demolition Expert.
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I know you do that kind of stuff all the time Jeff and that you're smart about it, I just don't think the OP is very responsible to suggest such a thing. I'm old and cranky but I KNOW from almost 20 years of fabricating experience that grinding aluminum is stupid and dangerous. If you want to create parts out of aluminum, use the proper tools. Suggesting that others use an angle grinder to work aluminum into usable parts is just not smart. Sorry if I am offending anybody but just look it up. Do not use an angle grinder to machine aluminum. Period.
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At first I thought about his original post.
Then I read further.
He's taken the proper precautions as far as I can see.
Could he modify the 1st post? Sure and maybe I'll suggest he does so or I'll add the precautions myself.
I could go through a bunch of threads and come up with reasons to say that's not safe.
But I've been in the business of machinery one way or the other to know being inventive is the key to better ways to do things.
Sometimes that goes against what others think they know.
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I know you do that kind of stuff all the time Jeff and that you're smart about it, I just don't think the OP is very responsible to suggest such a thing. I'm old and cranky but I KNOW from almost 20 years of fabricating experience that grinding aluminum is stupid and dangerous. If you want to create parts out of aluminum, use the proper tools. Suggesting that others use an angle grinder to work aluminum into usable parts is just not smart. Sorry if I am offending anybody but just look it up. Do not use an angle grinder to machine aluminum. Period.
Using tools for exactly what they are made for is not irresponsible in any way. Home Depot sells angle grinders for grinding metal. They sell metal grinding wheels for them. They are specifically labelled "for metal". If I was advising people to use a tool for something it wasn't meant for then maybe you would have a point but, on this, you are just wrong.
I took advice on this from a number of people with at least as much experience as you claim (and more in most cases). Using angle grinders on metal is very common across a number of different types of business. That includes aluminum and steel.
Anyone who takes on a project with metal (or any other material) is responsible for researching the risk and take proper precautions. As others have said, nothing that uses a power tool is without risk. You take the appropriate precautions
Also, the risks of using a grinding wheel are no different to using a metal cutting wheel on any rotary tool. I.e. Making sure the wheel is properly secured, not damaged and the part being cut or ground is securely clamped.
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I think you missed the point. Aluminum is a non ferrous metal. It is not the same as grinding steel. Please read this.
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-difference-between-ferrous-and-non-ferrous-metal/ (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-difference-between-ferrous-and-non-ferrous-metal/)
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I think you missed the point. Aluminum is a non ferrous metal. It is not the same as grinding steel. Please read this.
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-difference-between-ferrous-and-non-ferrous-metal/ (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-difference-between-ferrous-and-non-ferrous-metal/)
As long as you change the wheel regularly and don't let it get too hot then there is no issue grinding aluminum. I know a lot about handling aluminum and it's potential dangers as we used powdered aluminum in one of my businesses to manufacture a product. It's far more dangerous in powdered form if not treated. Quickly shaping a small piece using a fresh angle grinder wheel is a much safer process.
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I think you missed the point. Aluminum is a non ferrous metal. It is not the same as grinding steel. Please read this.
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-difference-between-ferrous-and-non-ferrous-metal/ (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/the-difference-between-ferrous-and-non-ferrous-metal/)
I just checked again and, as I thought, the wheels I use are specifically made for aluminum. See for yourself:
https://www.pferdusa.com/products/206a/206a03/206a0301P.html (https://www.pferdusa.com/products/206a/206a03/206a0301P.html)
I will take my apology whenever you are ready...
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I am sorry there is just nothing there.
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I am sorry there is just nothing there.
There's a couple of issues here. First there's "grinding" aluminum as in coarse polishing or "breaking sharp edges." Wheels can be made to cut aluminum or any other metai, but that doesn't make it advisable to do heavy material removal with a grinding wheel, for the reasons mentioned: wheels can load up and then break or shatter with disastrous consequences for the grinder.
The wheel on an angle grinder is sufficiently small that it would only put out an eye instead of removing a limb.
The second issue is fine aluminum dust, which is a respiratory hazard and is also a fire/explosion hazard if done in the same shop with ferrous metals, as the mixture with iron particles can cause a thermic reaction leading to fire or explosion.
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The grinding wheels I use are specifically made for aluminum. It even says "for aluminum" on them.
I know more about handling aluminum powder than most people and the chips these grinding wheels leave are nowhere near small enough to be inhaled or caused a fire hazard.
Here is an idea, instead of looking for issues, why don't you make a helpful suggestion. If you think you know a better way, tell people. If not, try saying nothing as you are currently adding no value to me or anyone else.
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See for yourselves. This is one of the wheels I am currently using for aluminum:
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Zebracf/image_zpsfd7iw02q.jpg) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/Zebracf/media/image_zpsfd7iw02q.jpg.html)
Note the description on the left. It specifically states that it is designed for use on non-ferrous metals and it goes on to specifically state aluminum as an example.
This is the irrefutable truth.
Also note, this thread is about hobby metal work so there is no shop to be worried about in terms of what other metals are processed here. Anyone doing it for a living in a professional environment would be using a mill but for my one-off hobby project, there is only a bar of aluminum present.
Grinding and shaping aluminum is done every day by people across America. It's no problem if the right tools are used and proper precautions are taken. Just like any other metal-working project.
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No need to get defensive. People who aren't as savvy as you need to know that there are hazards to this. Simple as that.
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No need to get defensive. People who aren't as savvy as you need to know that there are hazards to this. Simple as that.
I am simply correcting some inaccurate info that was being spread by people posing as experts. I.e. the message that "you can't grind aluminum, period". That is not accurate.
When I explained that, I get two people regurgitating that same inaccurate info again.
People don't come here for negative grumpies to give them a list of reasons why things can't be done. They want info on how it can be done. If you have additional info on how to make it safer then present that info but do your research first and make it accurate and positive. Help people instead of peeing on their camp fire.
Btw, I'm not that savvy. I just did my research using the same tools that are available to everyone. As adults, we are all responsible for doing our own research on how to do things safely.
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I sure would like to see how your grinding aluminum is going.
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Life is dangerous !
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For some more than others, that is for sure.
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Using a cut off wheel or grinding wheel on aluminium?
Just work slow and check the wheel often.
I keep a good wire brush handy to clean things if need be or replace the wheels.
Glad you do wear the proper safety equipment and take care to clamp things properly.
I do demolition work all over the U.S.A. and a grinder is standard equipment for us.
The one thing I hate the most is when a cut off wheel or grinding wheel explodes!
^this.
Always gloves and eye protection with angle grinders. Don't plunge in such a way that your face/neck is in line with the disc. Don't change your cut line once you are into the cut, i.e. Keep the tool straight to kerf, or you'll explode the cut disc. Having sharp metal in your eye is not fun.
But in absolute terms...if it exists on earth,and it can be cut, an angle grinder can do it. From concrete to stainless to dunnage.
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I still wonder how that grinding aluminum thing worked out ? I bet huge machine shops could save millions on tooling by using grinding wheels from Lowes.
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Interesting thread. I’ve used circular saws and band saws to cut and shape aluminum for years. I’ve cut hundreds of picture frames and window frames with chop saws and aluminum cutting blades. Just keep a stick of paraffin handy to lubricate everything. Hand grinder seems a clumsy tool to me. Much easier to use a band saw for shaping billet.
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Many little cutting grinding tools that will do many things with a little ingenuity and paraffin wax :)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QRNNGRS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0? (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QRNNGRS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?)
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Using a cut off wheel or grinding wheel on aluminium?
Just work slow and check the wheel often.
I keep a good wire brush handy to clean things if need be or replace the wheels.
Glad you do wear the proper safety equipment and take care to clamp things properly.
I do demolition work all over the U.S.A. and a grinder is standard equipment for us.
The one thing I hate the most is when a cut off wheel or grinding wheel explodes!
^this.
Always gloves and eye protection with angle grinders. Don't plunge in such a way that your face/neck is in line with the disc. Don't change your cut line once you are into the cut, i.e. Keep the tool straight to kerf, or you'll explode the cut disc. Having sharp metal in your eye is not fun.
But in absolute terms...if it exists on earth,and it can be cut, an angle grinder can do it. From concrete to stainless to dunnage.
This sounds like good advice to me.
What is dunnage?
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loose wood, matting, or similar material used to keep a cargo in position in a ship's hold.
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loose wood, matting, or similar material used to keep a cargo in position in a ship's hold.
^ traditionally this. There’s an actual “carpenter” category of longshoremen whose job was to brace and secure cargo. Not as common in the age of containers.
Dunnage in general is just any material (usually wood) whose sole purpose is to help hold or support something more valuable.
Examples are setting structural steel on blocks of wood so a worker can more easily get a sling to wrap around the piece without the ground being in the way.
Or setting a big spool of wire rope on blocks of wood so a forklift can quickly and easily get under the load without just skidding the load along the ground.