GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: bReTt on August 09, 2016, 08:59:37 PM
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Hi fellas!
I have been seriously considering moving over to the PCP realm but I am not sure which way to go. After some contemplation, I figured why not convert the old QB over to air? I know others have done it but I am not sure what exactly needs to be done. I'm thinking an adapter for the tube and a regulated bottle? I will need a pump to charge the bottles with air. It that it or am I waaaaay off or forgetting something?
Thanks, and any help in this direction is greatly appreciated. I want to do it right.
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Search QB Ninja $200 PCP....
Bob
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Also "QB HPA build for GTA member"
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Thanks guys, I have a lot of reading to do! I appreciate the posts.
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HAve done it 4 ways.
Easiest is to buy a QB79 (the tanker) and attach an HPA bottle rather than a co2 tank. Lots of posts here about that, and the plus/minus as well as the potntial dangers. Seems to be a very workable solution so long as the regulator (output pressure) of the HPA tank is in the normal co2 range.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/d0e31c0f-8c7a-43a0-94df-d4a8fbaed3ac.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/d0e31c0f-8c7a-43a0-94df-d4a8fbaed3ac.jpg.html)
The above is tme most cost effective way into air.
Can convert a full length QB78 the same way, but you have to cut the tube and add the tank block yourself. Do a careful job, and it can be stronger than the QB79's tank block attachment.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/2a88a781-2607-4eee-905d-0f48f382ffd3.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/2a88a781-2607-4eee-905d-0f48f382ffd3.jpg.html)
HAve converted them by way of a HiPac conversion tube, although those seem to be no-more. Took a bit of adjusting and tuning to get it running well, but the conversion itself was simple.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/ddb1beb4-c948-4ac6-acea-f470b58d9116.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/ddb1beb4-c948-4ac6-acea-f470b58d9116.jpg.html)
HAve replace the co2 tube with a longer 3K rated PCP tube. Not sure where to find full length, QB ready air tube today, but at least some converted Discovery tubes have been converted for QB use and there are still some custom makers that may undertake a QB PCP tube. Think this one I'd hunt up a reputable shop to supply as a custom made piece (so expect it will be costly).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/f0727cd5-da07-4c1d-a9c6-c277d2560b60.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/f0727cd5-da07-4c1d-a9c6-c277d2560b60.jpg.html)
Just be sure you want to start this...getting one running well isn't without some effort on your part, which some posters find to be a PIA. Can find PCP's made as PCP's for a resonable price (just about $200 for a Maximus and Discos are often orrderd pretty cheaply as well).
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Hey breTt,
- Go to Amazon, they have the Tipperman 13CI tanks for $50.
- Go to Zorro and buy a package of (12) .032 bellevue washers $6.
- Go to Arccher Airguns to buy the needed tank block $34.
- I have an AirForce Pump (new in box) for $130.
- I have a pressure gauge you can borrow to measure regulator set-point for adjusting.
- I cut my QB78 air cylinder with a pipe cutter and used diamond bit to clean up.
- All other changes needed are pretty easy, especially for someone who is handy.
Kirk
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HAve done it 4 ways.
Easiest is to buy a QB79 (the tanker) and attach an HPA bottle rather than a co2 tank. Lots of posts here about that, and the plus/minus as well as the potntial dangers. Seems to be a very workable solution so long as the regulator (output pressure) of the HPA tank is in the normal co2 range.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/d0e31c0f-8c7a-43a0-94df-d4a8fbaed3ac.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/d0e31c0f-8c7a-43a0-94df-d4a8fbaed3ac.jpg.html)
The above is tme most cost effective way into air.
Can convert a full length QB78 the same way, but you have to cut the tube and add the tank block yourself. Do a careful job, and it can be stronger than the QB79's tank block attachment.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/2a88a781-2607-4eee-905d-0f48f382ffd3.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/2a88a781-2607-4eee-905d-0f48f382ffd3.jpg.html)
HAve converted them by way of a HiPac conversion tube, although those seem to be no-more. Took a bit of adjusting and tuning to get it running well, but the conversion itself was simple.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/ddb1beb4-c948-4ac6-acea-f470b58d9116.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/ddb1beb4-c948-4ac6-acea-f470b58d9116.jpg.html)
HAve replace the co2 tube with a longer 3K rated PCP tube. Not sure where to find full length, QB ready air tube today, but at least some converted Discovery tubes have been converted for QB use and there are still some custom makers that may undertake a QB PCP tube. Think this one I'd hunt up a reputable shop to supply as a custom made piece (so expect it will be costly).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/QB%20mods/f0727cd5-da07-4c1d-a9c6-c277d2560b60.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/QB%20mods/f0727cd5-da07-4c1d-a9c6-c277d2560b60.jpg.html)
Just be sure you want to start this...getting one running well isn't without some effort on your part, which some posters find to be a PIA. Can find PCP's made as PCP's for a resonable price (just about $200 for a Maximus and Discos are often orrderd pretty cheaply as well).
Wow! Those are great. Thank you for showing the different options available to convert over. I like the idea of buying the 79 instead of chopping my 78. Thanks for those!
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Hey breTt,
- Go to Amazon, they have the Tipperman 13CI tanks for $50.
- Go to Zorro and buy a package of (12) .032 bellevue washers $6.
- Go to Arccher Airguns to buy the needed tank block $34.
- I have an AirForce Pump (new in box) for $130.
- I have a pressure gauge you can borrow to measure regulator set-point for adjusting.
- I cut my QB78 air cylinder with a pipe cutter and used diamond bit to clean up.
- All other changes needed are pretty easy, especially for someone who is handy.
Kirk
Thanks to you Kirk for the vendors and items needed. I will be looking at those.... soon! Maybe when we shoot I can bum that pressure gauge from you, I appreciate that. I got your pics in PM, do you have one of the rifle as a whole? It looks great from what I saw.
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awesome build pics! thanks for sharing ..
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(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/IMG_1520_zpsmrn6a519.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/IMG_1520_zpsmrn6a519.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/Finished%20Tester%20002_zpsavylqt7q.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/Finished%20Tester%20002_zpsavylqt7q.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/QB78%20Love%20004_zpsccetil2a.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/QB78%20Love%20004_zpsccetil2a.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/More%20QB%20003_zpsgxmaftsu.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/More%20QB%20003_zpsgxmaftsu.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/Muzzle%20Brake2%20021_zpssybmn5sf.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/Muzzle%20Brake2%20021_zpssybmn5sf.jpg.html)
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nice machine work, love the giant industrial gauge on the asa
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If indeed you end up going with a regulated bottle on a QB79, you may want to consider the "mini-valve" approach:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5330)
There are two key benefits in my opinion:
- plenum volume - The 79 has very little volume feeding the valve and this approach maximizes the usable volume
- simplicity of the modification - It does not require fabrication of a spring guide or anything sophisticated. It can be done with nothing more than a handheld drill and a Dremel tool and some hand tools like hacksaw and files.
You can read some additional details in these threads:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=107182 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=107182)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104460 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104460)
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Yes, on the QB79, the Maxi-Valve with spring reversed on the Stem represents 3 years of aggregate GTA knowledge. Thanks to Bob and Jason :D. We copy cats have it easy ;D.
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Hey Guys,
I also wanted to say, converting these guns to HPA can be very dangerous if you are taking shortcuts, especially the mating of the Tank Block and air cylinder! This issue has been an ongoing concern; the GTA does not want these guns to be ongoing experiments by the unknowing or ill equipped, tinkerer.
The conversion to HPA should only be undertaken by those who have the skills to do clean work with and understanding of the effects of 3,000 psi. Read Bob, Jason and Ribbonstone's posts before proceeding.
Sometimes I'm too casual about the risk of HPA with the QB guns (they were NOT originally designed for this purpose). However, when done right, this is the Best Bang for the Buck (accuracy/cost) of any gun I know of 8).
Kirk .................
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^X2.... Unless you pin the QB79 tank block, or use the JDS block and use high-tensile screws.... it would be best to confine your pressure to not more than the 1100 psi of the Ninja SHP regulator.... If you take the care to insure the tank block is mounted well, you can use up to a 1500 psi setpoint.... but in any case, with a stock QB tube, you must always use a 1.8K burst disc to insure the pressure in the gun can never exceed what CO2 can achieve on a 120*F day.... NEVER use a regulator that isn't fitted with a 1.8K burst disc on the output side....
Bob
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If indeed you end up going with a regulated bottle on a QB79, you may want to consider the "mini-valve" approach:
(http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy80/jmneal1/projects/airguns/tri-5-ron/rifle3/valve2_zpshvibssrz.jpg)
There are two key benefits in my opinion:
- plenum volume - The 79 has very little volume feeding the valve and this approach maximizes the usable volume
- simplicity of the modification - It does not require fabrication of a spring guide or anything sophisticated. It can be done with nothing more than a handheld drill and a Dremel tool and some hand tools like hacksaw and files.
You can read some additional details in these threads:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=107182 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=107182)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104460 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104460)
Thank you Jason, I appreciate the tips! I'm leaning towards chopping my 78 vs. buying a 79. Would the "mini-valve" approach still be a good way to go or is it not that beneficial with more pressurized volume with the chopped tube of the 78? Thanks again!
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^X2.... Unless you pin the QB79 tank block, or use the JDS block and use high-tensile screws.... it would be best to confine your pressure to not more than the 1100 psi of the Ninja SHP regulator.... If you take the care to insure the tank block is mounted well, you can use up to a 1500 psi setpoint.... but in any case, with a stock QB tube, you must always use a 1.8K burst disc to insure the pressure in the gun can never exceed what CO2 can achieve on a 120*F day.... NEVER use a regulator that isn't fitted with a 1.8K burst disc on the output side....
Bob
Hey Guys,
I also wanted to say, converting these guns to HPA can be very dangerous if you are taking shortcuts, especially the mating of the Tank Block and air cylinder! This issue has been an ongoing concern; the GTA does not want these guns to be ongoing experiments by the unknowing or ill equipped, tinkerer.
The conversion to HPA should only be undertaken by those who have the skills to do clean work with and understanding of the effects of 3,000 psi. Read Bob, Jason and Ribbonstone's posts before proceeding.
Sometimes I'm too casual about the risk of HPA with the QB guns (they were NOT originally designed for this purpose). However, when done right, this is the Best Bang for the Buck (accuracy/cost) of any gun I know of 8).
Kirk .................
Thank you both for the warnings! I like the idea of having the higher pressure of the SHP regulator but I may play it safe and go with the lower pressure regulator set up. Still reading and trying to decide what is best for my peace of mind. This is such a great resource to have access to you guys that have already figured a bunch of this out. Thanks for being willing to share it so freely!
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Hi Brett, the mini valve will work well in either model, it's just that the 79 will benefit more since there is so little volume available to the valve. If you are going with a 78, I would suggest you go with whichever set of free-flow mods you are most comfortable with in terms of your tools and skills.
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Hey Brett,
Just a matter of opinion, but I like the QB79 better as it's lighter / easier to shoot, but the converted QB78 looks more like a gun than a science project :D. The QB78's are more work too :P. I have yet to convert my .177 QB78D, even though I already have everything to do it. One of these days..........
From what I've seen of your work (checkering/HW77/tuning), I think the QB78 or QB79 conversion will be like building and Estes Rocket or Guillows Airplane for you (aka -> a fun project) ;D.
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So if you put a HP air tank say regulated to 850-950 psi, isn't that about the same as a CO2 pressure? (I don't know just asking here). The reason I ask is I wanted to convert my QB79 to air to use in the colder part of the year, and I am looking for the least expensive way to just use it that way. I am not looking for a huge increase in power or FPE as I will be using it in the woods and on rabbits and squirrels mostly.
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yep thats the same as co2 pressure, matter of fact co2 can hit 1100 psi rather easily down south
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As hot asits been in Ga., I can believe it. LOL. thanks for the info
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im living in LA , was stationed in benning yrs ago , and from nYC , so i dont adjust well lol
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Hey Guys,
IIRC, it has been reported Co2 can reach pressures of >1600 psi when left in the Sun or Trunk on a hot day :o.
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1900 psi at 120*F for a CO2 tank properly filled to 100% by weight.... according to the US Navy....
Bob
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So I should be safe with air regulated to 900 psi then?
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id go to 1100 psi personally, in GA you may as well stick with co2 in thats case, more shots , less work converting etc
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Guys,
You can safely go to 1550 psi, just make sure the tank block is secure using various methods of "pinning the block". There are many threads on the GTA showing how this is accomplished.
Using a set-point of 1200 to 1500 psi, you should be able to get 65 to 75 shots at 850 to 900 psi in .177 or .22 caliber.
Good Luck and be safe :D
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thanks Kirk and Bob, I appreciate the information. Rob I was wanting to be able to use both with a minimal of modifications. It gets too cold in north east Georgia to use CO2 effectively in the late fall and winter, so the use of air during those months would be an enhancement. Im not looking to build a monster HPA gun, just be able to use both at a safe pressure equal to the CO2.
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in that case id do the exact same , probably get the tank from jds airman set ablout 1000 even ,which should balance out when u switch back to co2 in the summer
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If you want CO2 performance, then just use a standard paintball tank and regulator with an 850 psi output.... You will have slightly more velocity than with CO2....
Bob
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Will agree with the above, 850psi is just a little bit faster than co2. So if you aren't looking for a major power increase, can be a good solution.
The other "advantages" are that (1) you can arrange for w whole lot of shots (like +200 for a 13Ci HPA tank), (2) there is actually LESSS stress to the tank block (And all the other sealed parts) than warm weather co2, and (3) they seem to mlast a long-long time without any problems when you push them so mildly.
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Thank you for the input sirs. That is the solution I was looking for. it is going to be a 20 yard gun mostly for fur bearing came and plinking, so the CO2 power is fine with me. I read in here that air shoots faster than CO2 so it will be like an upgrade with not too much work. CO2 is fine in the summer and spring but it is sub 60 degrees most of the time in winter and air would be a better choice I think. Great information, thanks for the time to answer my question. I'm really starting to enjoy this "Dark Side" it rounds out the whole the whole pellet rifle experience. I am currently getting into the pistol aspect of it too, or I guess the carbine aspect. I still shoot all my pellet guns every month to make sure they are operating, but seem to be gravitating more towards my CO2 guns now.