GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Dr. Swa on July 28, 2016, 09:15:46 AM
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Question for you. I have a .22 Benjamin Marauder that has ok, but not great accuracy with the best of many pellets tested (JSB 18.1 grn); around 3/4 of an inch at 25 yds (10 shots). For comparison, I have two .177 Marauders and can get 1/2 inch groups at 40 yds (longest range I have access to). I considered replacing the barrel with a Marmot Militia drop-in replacement, but honestly, it sounds like it is too high maintenance for me. I do not want to lube pellets and clean it after 100 or so shots. I am going to through the dice and I have ordered two new barrels from Crosman to see if I can do better. I plan on cleaning the barrels with Goo Gone and then season before assessing accuracy. Here is the question - How many shots should I consider being acceptable to season the barrel, and what pellet would you recommend for seasoning (all lead?). Looking for a seasoning pellet that is not too expensive, but will season as effectively as possible. Also, from your experience, what pellets are most likely to be accurate? I was going to start with the following - JSB 15.89 and JSB 18.13 grn, Crosman 14.3 grn in the box, H&N Barracuda and Beeman Kodiak, 21.14 grn. Currently, I have the gun tuned to shoot the JSB 18.13's at 795 fps. Thanks.
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1000 pellets should do it. My MROD (that I sold) loved H&N FTT 14.66 grain pellets & H&N Barracuda 21.14 grain pellets.
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Most of the .22 Marauders with accuracy issues had an issue with the area just before the crown being galled by the crowning tool so before swapping out barrels make sure that your accuracy issues are not from another source. Check that the shroud is secure and centered in the barrel band, no clipping of baffles, breach seal o-ring is not nicked or damaged. Hammer is not binding and a few other things that I can't think of of hand. It took me about a month to sort out my Gen II .22 before I donated it to my friend .
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Mac1 considers Crosman barrels to be quite good. It just needs to be prepped. You might want to give Tim a call. His prices are quite reasonable.
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I went with an LW barrel machined by Jim Gaska, who is with Marmot Malitia, works great without lubes and is a tack driver accurate. works good with JSB's .
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I went with the hammer forged barrel from jim.after shooting for the day I pull some patches through it before putting it away even if I only shoot it a few times...I should have went with the LW barrel but I very happy with HFB,chipmunks at 60 yards with it is good by me...pulling some patches through it doesnt take long at all.
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Thanks for all the suggestions and the PM. No clipping of the baffles and the shroud is centered in the barrel band, breech o-ring is fine. One thing that I have not checked is are the receiver screws tight; that is an easy check; if they are loose, I will tighten and check again for accuracy. Regarding Tim and Mac1, I had him prep a .177 barrel for me. Price was very reasonable and regarding time to get the work done, he under promised and over delivered. I ordered two of the Crosman .177 barrels (my original was likely bent; by me), installed one and sent the other to Tim. The barrel I installed turned out to be very accurate (eight-shot dime sized group at 40 yds), so I have the Mac1 prepped barrel in storage. I may end up sending one or both of the .22 barrels to Tim if I don't see significantly improved accuracy. Note that for my application, the longest shots I will be taking will be 25-30 yards (hunting), so I don't need super accuracy, but more accuracy is always better! :-)
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This may sound a little crazy but,,,,,
I had great accuracy through my 22 mrod for atleast 1.5 years and then it went to heck. It wasn't until I started hearing people buy new barrels and such that their 22's became more accurate than most or stock.
Me being me, had to understand why.
A few threads turned me onto crowning but the ones that interested me the most were the choke threads. How to do it and why. With a bunch of fiddling around pushing the pellet through the barrel "the push feel" really told a alot of the story.
Although, pushing from the breech to the exit of the barrel was nice, it wasn't until I put a pellet in backward "head first" from the exit part of the barrel.
This was the tell tale of an improperly choked barrel. I then re-choked the barrel using the wedding band method and accuracy is now "IMO" premo.
So,
You can get a barrel re-crowned and choked for about 50 bucks or buy a new one for 100+ bucks.
On a side note,
I rarely clean my barrels. I always clean the barrel first before shooting it for the first time. Look for any burrs or feel for any burrs. With all my ammo, I always clean them. Sounds dumb but, there's always loose lead getting everywhere in those tins.
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Shorty , I am curious as to what caused the accuracy to go down hill after 1.5 years shooting great? Did something happen to the crown that caused the barrel to loose accuracy?
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I have really no idea. Seriously....
Tune's where great and getting better and better. Maybe I just starting hearing about how accurate PCP's could be and evolved.
I really don't know.
Although,
I heard one post from Bullfrog where one of his "good" barrels was shooting great but then went to poop. I think he soaked that barrel in a solvent and it brought it back to life.
That was a long time ago but, I can be mis-taken on the details
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Yeah I hate mysteries, you never know when the problem will pop up again.
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Steve, reading through the list of things you have checked and ruled out, I didn't see where you said you checked for the bore damage that Don described.
Kirby posted a picture of it here http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110179.msg1051589#msg1051589 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110179.msg1051589#msg1051589)
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I checked the new barrel for bore damage. None noted, and the crown looked good. Cleaned with about six patches with Goo Gone (used sparingly), until patches were clean, then ran a couple of dry patches through. Reassembled the rifle and tested in my short range (aka garage) with several domed pellets (Crosman 14.3, JSB 18.13, H&N Barracuda Match 21.14). All looked pretty good (round holes, less than two pellets wide). Will know more on Thursday when I can test outside up to 40 yds. I did notice that the receiver screws may have loosened slightly after 30-40 shots, and one of the set screws that holds the barrel to the receiver really loosened a lot. Have any of you had similar issues? Would Loctite Blue be the proper remedy if loosening rears its ugly head again? Finally, I've read (and experienced) that .22 Marauder barrels can be very pellet picky. Have any of you had experience with a barrel that wasn't particularly picky?
Thanks,
Steve
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I sold a .22 MROD that was dead on. :)
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I checked the new barrel for bore damage. None noted, and the crown looked good. Cleaned with about six patches with Goo Gone (used sparingly), until patches were clean, then ran a couple of dry patches through. Reassembled the rifle and tested in my short range (aka garage) with several domed pellets (Crosman 14.3, JSB 18.13, H&N Barracuda Match 21.14). All looked pretty good (round holes, less than two pellets wide). Will know more on Thursday when I can test outside up to 40 yds. I did notice that the receiver screws may have loosened slightly after 30-40 shots, and one of the set screws that holds the barrel to the receiver really loosened a lot. Have any of you had similar issues? Would Loctite Blue be the proper remedy if loosening rears its ugly head again? Finally, I've read (and experienced) that .22 Marauder barrels can be very pellet picky. Have any of you had experience with a barrel that wasn't particularly picky?
Thanks,
Steve
My M-Rod with less than 500 pellets loves the H&N Barracuda Match 21.14. Liter pellets seems to be very inconsistent. Best groups are at 2600 to 2000 psi.
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I sold a .22 MROD that was dead on. :)
Was it stock or was it dead on because of some mods?
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I sold a .22 MROD that was dead on. :)
Was it stock or was it dead on because of some mods?
It was stock, all I did was add a regulator. :) I set the regulator at 1650 PSI as the regulator broke in it rose to 1850 or so.
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I sold a .22 MROD that was dead on. :)
Was it stock or was it dead on because of some mods?
It was stock, all I did was add a regulator. :) I set the regulator at 1650 PSI as the regulator broke in it rose to 1850 or so.
I'm a bit unsure how a regulator works. Is it just to maintain 'X' amount of pressure over a wider pressure in the airtube so your shot get a more even amount of air?
Which one regulator did you get? They all say there's is the best.
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I sold a .22 MROD that was dead on. :)
Was it stock or was it dead on because of some mods?
It was stock, all I did was add a regulator. :) I set the regulator at 1650 PSI as the regulator broke in it rose to 1850 or so.
I'm a bit unsure how a regulator works. Is it just to maintain 'X' amount of pressure over a wider pressure in the airtube so your shot get a more even amount of air?
Which one regulator did you get? They all say there's is the best.
That is how they work, and are easy to install. :) With a regulator you have no curve, so you do not have to worry about a sweet spot. I got my regulator from Air Gun Exporters (one of our vendors here at GTA). His regulators are like the Huma regulator. My wife does not allow tools in my hands, but I was able to install the regulator no problem. :)
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I checked the new barrel for bore damage. None noted, and the crown looked good. Cleaned with about six patches with Goo Gone (used sparingly), until patches were clean, then ran a couple of dry patches through. Reassembled the rifle and tested in my short range (aka garage) with several domed pellets (Crosman 14.3, JSB 18.13, H&N Barracuda Match 21.14). All looked pretty good (round holes, less than two pellets wide). Will know more on Thursday when I can test outside up to 40 yds. I did notice that the receiver screws may have loosened slightly after 30-40 shots, and one of the set screws that holds the barrel to the receiver really loosened a lot. Have any of you had similar issues? Would Loctite Blue be the proper remedy if loosening rears its ugly head again? Finally, I've read (and experienced) that .22 Marauder barrels can be very pellet picky. Have any of you had experience with a barrel that wasn't particularly picky?
Thanks,
Steve
maybe one of the experts can chime in on that info...
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I checked the new barrel for bore damage. None noted, and the crown looked good. Cleaned with about six patches with Goo Gone (used sparingly), until patches were clean, then ran a couple of dry patches through. Reassembled the rifle and tested in my short range (aka garage) with several domed pellets (Crosman 14.3, JSB 18.13, H&N Barracuda Match 21.14). All looked pretty good (round holes, less than two pellets wide). Will know more on Thursday when I can test outside up to 40 yds. I did notice that the receiver screws may have loosened slightly after 30-40 shots, and one of the set screws that holds the barrel to the receiver really loosened a lot. Have any of you had similar issues? Would Loctite Blue be the proper remedy if loosening rears its ugly head again? Finally, I've read (and experienced) that .22 Marauder barrels can be very pellet picky. Have any of you had experience with a barrel that wasn't particularly picky?
Thanks,
Steve
maybe one of the experts can chime in on that info...
Yes Blue will work fine and allows disassembly in the future if needed. Just make sure all mating surfaces are de greased first
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Related to the Loctite question, I reexamined the barrel that I removed, and in the position where I am having the set screw problem, take a look at what I found at this point on the barrel. It looks metallic, almost like solder. It makes me think that this was a problem when the rifle was originally assembled. Any idea as to what this might be? Thanks. The set screw looks brand new, so it is not from there (in addition to the fact that the set screw is all black).
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Related to the Loctite question, I reexamined the barrel that I removed, and in the position where I am having the set screw problem, take a look at what I found at this point on the barrel. It looks metallic, almost like solder. It makes me think that this was a problem when the rifle was originally assembled. Any idea as to what this might be? Thanks. The set screw looks brand new, so it is not from there (in addition to the fact that the set screw is all black).
Looks to me that the barrel shifted position and the finish was marred by the set screw. It is very common and did not have to happen on assembly. Just align your barrel and re-tighten the set screws.
PS: All Mrod and Prod 22 barrels I've had, were pellet picky, if accurate at all. Generally, it has been a H&N oversize head pellet that shot well.
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New barrel was tested today with a wide variety of pellets. General observations on the new barrel. The new barrel is not particularly pellet picky at 25yds (>90% of my shots will be shorter than this). Also, POI only shifted subtly with each pellet (with the exception being one H&N hollow point-type pellet); at most one inch from the two pellets with the most different POI. The original barrel at POI's that shifted as much as six inches at the same distance (25 yards). Pellet weights varied from 14.3 to 21.1 grains, with muzzle velocities ranging from ~880 to ~750 fps. Selected results at 25 and 35 yards (unless otherwise stated, pellets were all dome/round). All are five shot groups unless otherwise noted:
JSB Exact 14.35 - 1/4", 9/8"
JSB Exact 15.89 - 1/4", 1/2"
JSB Exact 18.13 - 9/16", 1/2"
Kodiak 21.14 - 1/2"
H&N Barracuda Match 21.14
5.51mm - 9/16"
5.52mm - 1/4", 3/16"
5.53mm - 7/8" (2 shots only)
Crosman Premier Dome
Box - 9/16"
Tin - 7/16"
Crosman Premier HP - 5/8"
Benjamin Discovery HP - 5/16", 5/8"
Predator Polymax - 7/8" (10 shot group)
This is a huge improvement over the original barrel. Thanks for all of your suggestions, and Fred J, thanks for use of the range!
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My MROD loved H&N Barricuda 21.14 pellets best. :)
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This may sound a little crazy but,,,,,
I had great accuracy through my 22 mrod for atleast 1.5 years and then it went to heck. It wasn't until I started hearing people buy new barrels and such that their 22's became more accurate than most or stock.
Me being me, had to understand why.
A few threads turned me onto crowning but the ones that interested me the most were the choke threads. How to do it and why. With a bunch of fiddling around pushing the pellet through the barrel "the push feel" really told a alot of the story.
Although, pushing from the breech to the exit of the barrel was nice, it wasn't until I put a pellet in backward "head first" from the exit part of the barrel.
This was the tell tale of an improperly choked barrel. I then re-choked the barrel using the wedding band method and accuracy is now "IMO" premo.
So,
You can get a barrel re-crowned and choked for about 50 bucks or buy a new one for 100+ bucks.
On a side note,
I rarely clean my barrels. I always clean the barrel first before shooting it for the first time. Look for any burrs or feel for any burrs. With all my ammo, I always clean them. Sounds dumb but, there's always loose lead getting everywhere in those tins.
Hello sr where would I get a barrel worked like that? Whom would recommend?
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It's been a long time since we all talked about this. I am not sure who still offers a choke and crown service for our barrels.
I did mine myself and would not want to do it again unless I really had too.