GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: triggertreat on June 16, 2016, 01:50:00 PM
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(https://image.ibb.co/hYrVfF/Final_SSG_01.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/ifvdZa/Final_SSG_03.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/fPV97v/Final_SSG_02.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/dUuSSv/Final_SSG_04.jpg)
Detailed instructions for building and tuning the Gen II Internal DIY SSG by 22synrodn/triggertreat
Typical parts and tools needed:
1) Hammer (use existing)
1) Stainless steel bolt 2.5 long with 1/4-20 threads (Make sure its straight and true)
1) Optional 3/16-24 x 1/2 nylon bolt (goes in bolt head to reduce mechanical shot noise)
1) #26 drill bit (for optional nylon bolt inserted into bolt head)
1) 3/16-24 tap (for optional nylon bolt insert into bolt head)
1) 12.5lb (Music wire) spring (eBay or http://www.mcmaster.com/#9657k417/=11ybtqy (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9657k417/=11ybtqy))
1) 1/2 nylon washer (goes between bolt head and hammer for mechanical noise reduction)
1) Optional leather disc (cut from an old belt or other source) instead of or with nylon washer (for noise reduction)
1) Optional 3/8 x 1/4 nylon spacer threaded and placed on end of 1/4-20 bolt (for noise reduction)
1) 3/8 x 3/8 nylon spacer (for spring adjuster)
1) 1/4 long x 1/2 diameter nylon spacer (for hammer sleeve)
1) 3/8-24 x 1/2 set screw (for gap adjuster)
1) 1/8 drill bit, good quality (for drilling out center of gap adjuster)
1) 3/16 Allen wrench (for adjusting the gap)
1) 1/4 drill bit, good quality (for drilling out hammer threads and hammer sleeve)
1) 1/4-20 Tap and T-handle (for nylon spacer threading)
1) Small screwdriver with 1/8 blade or smaller (for adjusting the spring tension)
1) Dremel cutting disc (for slotting the end of the stainless steel bolt to adjust spring tension)
1) Grinder wheel or sharp knife (for making cone shape on half of the spring adjuster)
1) Drill press (for drilling hammer and gap adjuster center holes straight and true and optional nylon bolt head)
1) 3M, 320 grit wet sandpaper (for smoothing out 1/4-20 bolt shaft, hammer, and air tube)
1) Fine file (for removing hammer face burr from drilling 1/4 hole and creating slots in nylon hammer sleeve)
1) Monkey/Cresent wrench (for holding hammer while drilling)
Instructions and tips for building the Gen II Internal DIY SSG:
Hammer Use a sharp 1/4 bit and drill out the existing threads from the inside out so any burrs that occur on bit exit can be removed with a fine file easier. Use a good quality bit and drill slow to prevent burrs on exit. Use cutting oil to prevent heat buildup. A drill press is best for drilling straight. Dont wobble out the hole. You want a tight tolerance to the bolt. Use a large Monkey/Cresent wrench on the flats of the hammer to hold the hammer flush to the drill press base and to keep the hammer from turning.
Hammer Sleeve Drill the center of the 1/4 long x 1/2 diameter nylon spacer with the 1/4 bit. Create many slots on one side of the sleeve using the edge of a fine file or other means. These slots will grab the end of the spring once assembled and prevent the spring from rotating when adjusting spring tension. The sleeve is a very tight fit inside the hammer. Clean both hammer and sleeve then check for fit. If too tight, sand the sleeve. Use silicon lube if needed and tap all the way in or down into the hammer with slots facing out.
Bolt 2.5 1/4-20 stainless steel. Check before buying to ensure it is straight and true by using a steel shelf or flat surface. Slot the end of the bolt with the Dremel cutting wheel and test for fit with the screwdriver. Sand the shaft with 320 grit paper to make it ultra-smooth. If utilizing the optional nylon bolt insert for bolt head, I recommend doing that procedure to the bolt first.
Optional Nylon Bolt Insert for Bolt Head -- Drilling the hole in the exact center of the bolt head for the nylon bolt can be tricky. This is one way to do it. Put the bolt through the hammer opposite of the final assembly which is a snug fit. Inserted the large, threaded portion of the OEM spring adjuster into the hammer. It too is a snug fit. Use the 1/4 drill bit sent through the smaller portion of the OEM spring adjuster to give you a tight, straight guide to make an indention mark into the center of the bolt head. Use the #26 drill bit and 3/16 tap to drill and tap for the nylon screw. See the above image for a visual of this setup.
Nylon Washer Install on bolt before installing bolt through hammer. Use alone or in conjunction with the optional leather washer to reduce mechanical shot noise.
Spring Adjuster Use the 1/4-20 tap and T-handle to thread the 3/8 x 3/8 nylon spacer all the way through. No drilling is required for this. Install spacer a few threads in on a 1/4-20 bolt. Using the grinder wheel, create a cone shape on just half of the spacer using the bolt as a temporary handle to hold and rotate the spacer against the grinder wheel. Leave the surface rough so the spring can get a good grip on it. You can use a sharp knife or razor to create the cone shape too.
Spring Bend the hammer sleeve end of the spring outward so it can grab the slots in the sleeve good. On the gap adjuster end of the spring, close the last coil in a little so the spring grips the cone early and gets a good grip and doesnt slip over the spacer.
Gap Adjuster Drill a hole through the center of the 3/8-24 x 1/2 set screw using the 1/8 bit. Use a good quality bit as the set screw is of hard metal. Use cutting oil and go slow. Find something to hold it secure without damaging the threads. Dont damage the hex socket. Test for fit with spring adjustment screwdriver which should pass through easily. Trim screwdriver blade down with grinder wheel if needed.
End Cap Remove the OEM spring adjuster from t end cap and install the gap adjuster set screw using the degas tool threads. Use blue Loctite to hold secure.
Optional Leather Washer Cut out a round disc the size of the bolt head from a leather source (old belt) then use a hammer on a hard steel surface to compact the leather down to prevent erratic ES results. Cut out a 1/4 center hole that will be tight to the bolt to prevent movement. The leather reduces mechanical shot noise more than the nylon washer.
Optional Noise Reduction Spacer Use the 1/4-20 tap and T-handle to thread the 3/8 x 1/4 nylon spacer. Turn the spring adjuster counterclockwise to move the spring adjuster further up the bolt and out of the way. Use a couple of small drops of super glue on the spacer threads then screw it 2/3rds of the way onto the bolt. The bolt should be held vertically to prevent the glue from getting into the gap adjuster. This spacer reduces the rebound noise and quiets the mechanical shot noise more. The spacer also provides a stop for the spring adjuster. You can use this stop as a guide for counting the turns in from full clockwise stop and recording for reference.
Clean and assemble all parts. Check for fit and smoothness. When installing the spring and spring adjuster, push the spring adjuster and spring down to the bolts threads then turn the bolt head clockwise to thread the spring adjuster onto the bolt or use the screwdriver in the bolts slotted end and turn it counterclockwise to thread the spring adjuster onto the bolt. To start, set the spring adjuster so that three threads are showing behind it. You can typically go 4 turns in or 4 threads showing without running into sear engagement issues. This will be approximately the max spring tension you will have.
Instructions for tuning the Gen II Internal DIY SSG:
These instructions are based on a 3000 psi fill aiming for an 850 FPS average with whatever pellet you want to use with whatever platform you choose. These instructions can be adjusted for any other desired max fill pressure or FPS.
These instructions assume you have the DIY SSG installed and the Valve Metering Screw (VMS) set to the full open position (4.5 turns counterclockwise from full clockwise position).
1. Establish the gap between the bolt head and valve poppet. Start with around a 1/32 gap. Dont get too technical here as you will be fine tuning this gap later. Just establish a small gap for now. There are a couple of ways to do this:
A. Pull the stock and remove the three trigger assembly screws. Pull the assembly and you can visually see the gap area and insert a premeasured object to adjust the gap.
B. With gun fully assembled, use the gap adjustment hex tool and run the gap set screw in until you feel the bolt hit the poppet then turn back a half-turn.
2. Fill the gun to 2600 PSI using your fill gauge (not gun gauge). This is the approximate midpoint and peak FPS of your future string.
3. Take a shot over the chronograph. If you get a low reading, start turning the spring adjustment counterclockwise using a small screwdriver inserted through the gap adjuster hole. Turn the screwdriver one counterclockwise turn and take another shot. You should be seeing an increase in FPS. Keep adjusting until you see 850-860 FPS. (Note: after five shots, refill back to 2600 PSI until you reach 850-860 FPS).
Additional notes for step 3:
A. When you get close to 850-860 FPS you can begin adjusting using the gap adjustment and spring adjustment combination to fine tune.
B. The more gap you have, the more spring tension you will need. Only a very small gap is needed. Typically .020 -.030 is the desired range.
C. If adjusting spring tension and can no longer engage the sear, you have used up the spring tension and need to back off the spring by turning clockwise on the spring adjustment until the sear will engage again. At this point the gap has to go smaller or you need a stronger spring to achieve your goal. If tuning for 14.3s, 18.1s or .177 pellets to 850 FPS average, you shouldnt experience this providing the gap is not too large. The 21.14gn are very close to full spring bind at an 850 FPS average. You might need a 14lb spring or higher for the .25 cals to push the heavies to an 850 FPS average.
D. Dont turn the spring adjustment too far clockwise (if not using the optional 3/8 x 1/4 nylon spacer on the end of the bolt) to the point that it runs into the gap adjuster or off the end of the bolt affecting the gap adjustment.
4. Fill the gun to 3000 PSI and shoot a full string using up 1000 PSI of air based off the fill gauge you started with. The string should have a nice bell curve and may or may not need additional tweaks.
5. If you are happy with the string, you can further improve the efficiency by doing the following:
Fill to the peak FPS of the string. While maintaining the PSI at the peak FPS, begin turning the VMS clockwise until the VMS starts to affect or lower the peak FPS. Turn the VMS back counterclockwise just until the peak FPS returns. Make adjustments in small increments. This will reduce wasted air per shot even more and may increase your shot count without affecting your current tune.
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Impressive work you've done here.
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Pretty nice. Almost looks like WAR's and yes I said almost
Jay
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Good job on the SSG.
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If I didn't already have the WAR ssg installed I would be putting this in. Combined with your F.A.M.E mod it's a great!! upgrade for the Marauder
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Thanks for the kind words! The DIY SSG works very well and does not require you to take the gun apart or remove anything to tune it. It's kinda like the factory tuning, but in a different way. The gap adjustment and the spring adjustment are completely separate from each other. You can change one without affecting the other. The sleeve helps keep the hammer from tilting and helps prevent galling and makes cocking easier. The F.A.M.E mod completely eliminates galling.
I may have went overboard with the details and misspelled a few words, but wanted something that helps everyone. It really is an easy build and cheap to do too.
Yes, the DIY SSG and F.A.M.E. mod together are an awesome combination. I just did a tune yesterday on my synrod using the JSB 18.13gn and got 60 shots from 3000psi to 1900psi within a 4% ES with 29 FPE avg. @ 848 fps avg. 35 shots @ 2.77%, but I know I can do better. It was my first attempt with my new HF barrel and will do a redo on that tune for a much lower ES.
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Thanks for the post Keith. I'm a newbee PCP guy, my ordered Marauder hasn't even shipped yet. I'm ignorant re. your FAME mod, could you post a link to that?
Thanks!
Ed
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Thanks for the post Keith. I'm a newbee PCP guy, my ordered Marauder hasn't even shipped yet. I'm ignorant re. your FAME mod, could you post a link to that?
Thanks!
Ed
Here you go:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.0)
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Man, that wuz FAST! Thank you Sir!
Ed
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I did a 2nd tune today with the DIY SSG, F.A.M.E. mod and HF Barrel combo and I like it better.
Here's the full string with 55 shots @ 3.89% ES:
(https://image.ibb.co/k7mbNv/2nd_SSG_F_A_M_E_HF_Barrel_Test_01_zpsl00if0ow.jpg)
Here's the tune for 5 magazines I'll use for plinking and pest control for 25 yards and under around the house with a 2.9% ES:
(https://image.ibb.co/n22GNv/2nd_SSG_F_A_M_E_HF_Barrel_Test_02_zpsybggpbpa.jpg)
Here's the tune for 3 magazines I'll use for hunting and distances beyond 50 yards with a 1.83% ES on a 2600 psi fill:
(https://image.ibb.co/mCjD2v/2nd_SSG_F_A_M_E_HF_Barrel_Test_03_zpsysppiae8.jpg)
Here are the 5 shot groups at a measured 25 yards. I shot these groups while recording the string. Please keep in mind I don't use or have a bench rest as I'm a hunter. I just use a prop of some sort while squirrel and bird hunting. Today I used the top of my grill for a prop. Each individual square is 1" square. You can see the barrel starting to get dirty on the last few groups on page two, or me getting in a hurry to finish in the heat.
(https://image.ibb.co/fmL9aF/2nd_SSG_FAME_String_Groups_1_35_zpsee7x16ml.jpg)(https://image.ibb.co/iPED2v/2nd_SSG_FAME_String_Groups_36_55_zpszbyd7i89.jpg)
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Wow, those are some great numbers and outstanding groups, especially not being shot from a bench!
Ed
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Wow, those are some great numbers and outstanding groups, especially not being shot from a bench!
Ed
It's been a long road getting the 22synrod to shoot consistent and efficiently. I'm pleased that my hard work has paid off and can now enjoy the gun. It did come new as very good shooter and have made some amazing 60 and 80 yard shots with the stock barrel, but not consistently. With the DIY SSG, F.A.M.E, and MM HF Barrel it is another gun all together. 60 consistent shots at 29 Fpe on one fill is really unheard of in a unregulated synrod as far as I know. The best part of this for others is they can have this same setup too. I've provided both builds on the forums and they are cheap and easy to do.
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;)
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Gen II Internal DIY SSG Mod Build Instructions by triggertreat/22synrodn updated 9/28/16
(https://image.ibb.co/hYrVfF/Final_SSG_01.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/ifvdZa/Final_SSG_03.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/fPV97v/Final_SSG_02.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/dUuSSv/Final_SSG_04.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/gxdg5F/Final_SSG_07_zpsabpp1pkn.jpg)
Typical parts and tools needed to build the Gen 2 Internal DIY SSG:
- Hammer (use existing)
- Hammer bolt (Stainless Steel Hex Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Partial Thread, 2-1/2" Long). If purchasing locally, make sure its straight and true.
- Optional 3/16-24 x 1/2 nylon bolt (threads into the hammer bolt head to reduce mechanical shot noise even more)
- #26 drill bit (for optional nylon bolt threaded into the hammer bolt head)
- 3/16-24 tap (for optional nylon bolt threaded into the hammer bolt head)
- 12.5lb (Music wire) spring
- 1/2 nylon washer (to go between hammer bolt head and hammer for noise reduction)
- 3/8 x 3/8 nylon spacer (for spring adjuster)
- 1/4 long x 1/2 diameter nylon spacer (for hammer sleeve)
- 3/8 x 24 x 1/2 set screw (for gap adjuster)
- 1/8 drill bit (for drilling out the center of the gap adjuster)
- 3/16 Allen wrench (for adjusting the gap)
- 1/4 drill bit (for drilling out the hammer threads and hammer sleeve)
- 1/4-20 Tap and T-handle (for spring adjuster threads)
- Small screwdriver with 1/8 blade (for adjusting the spring tension)
- Dremel cutting disc (for slotting the end of the hammer bolt to adjust spring tension)
- Grinder wheel or sharp knife (for making cone shape on half of the spring adjuster)
- Drill press (for drilling out the hammer threads, gap adjuster and optional nylon bolt in the hammer bolt head)
- 3M 320 grit wet sandpaper (for smoothing out the hammer bolt, hammer and air tube)
- File (to remove hammer face burrs from drilling out the hammer threads)
- Optional Crescent wrench (for holding hammer while drilling)
Some parts links for ordering or referencing:
- 12.5lb 2.5 Spring (eBay) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/hillairgun-12-5-lb-Hammer-Spring-For-the-Benjamin-Marauder-/281898463941?hash=item41a27532c5:g:Y~IAAOSwI-BWJlrS/)
- 12.5lb x 2.5 Spring (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9657k417/=141tle7/)
- 14.8lb x 3 Spring (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9657k427/=13ojwrq/)
- 16lb x 2 Spring (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9657k392/=1471ol8/)
- Spring Adjuster, Nylon (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#94639a414/=141zpwh/)
- 1/4 Long Hammer Sleeve, Nylon (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#94639a569/=141zulx/)
- 1/2 Long Hammer Sleeve, Nylon (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#94639a554/=14ca7rj/)
- SS Hammer Bolt (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#92186a552/=14caiu7/)
- Gap Adjuster Set Screw, Non Thread-Locking (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#92311a636/=14cuv4f/)
- Gap Adjuster Set Screw, Thread-Locking (McMaster-Carr) (http://www.mcmaster.com/#91385a366/=14cuoww/)
Instructions for Building the Gen 2 Internal DIY SSG:
- Hammer Use a good quality 1/4 bit and drill from the inside out so you can remove any burrs that occur on the face of the hammer with a file. Use cutting oil to prevent heat buildup. It is best to use a drill press to drill out the hammer threads, but not required. The drill press will keep the holes straight. Dont wobble out the hole because you want it to be really smooth. You can use a large Crescent wrench on the flats of the hammer to hold the hammer flush to the drill press base and to keep it from turning.
- Hammer Sleeve Drill out the center of the 1/4 long x 1/2 diameter nylon spacer sleeve with a 1/4 bit. Create many slots on one side of the sleeve using a file or other means. These slots will grab the end of the spring once assembled and prevent the spring from rotating when adjusting spring tension. The sleeve is a very tight fit inside the hammer. If too tight, sand the sleeve a little. You dont want the sleeve to spin inside the hammer. Install the sleeve all the way in/down into the hammer with the slots facing the spring.
- Hammer Bolt (Stainless Steel Hex Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Partial Thread, 2-1/2" Long). If locally purchased, check before buying to ensure it is straight and true. Slot the end of the bolt with a Dremel cutting wheel in the center. Check for screwdriver fit. Sand the shaft with 320 grit sandpaper to make it very smooth.
- Spring Adjuster Use a 1/4-20 tap to thread the 3/8 x 3/8 nylon spring adjuster all the way through. No drilling is required. Install the spring adjuster a few threads in on a 1/4-20 bolt. Using a grinder wheel, create a cone shape on half of the spring adjuster using the bolt as a temporary handle to hold and rotate to a cone shape. Leave the surface rough so the spring can get a good grab on it. You can use a sharp knife or razor to create the cone shape too.
- Gap Adjuster Drill a hole through the center of the 3/8x24x1/2 set screw using a 1/8 bit. Use cutting oil to prevent heat buildup. Find something to hold the set screw secure without damaging the threads. Dont damage the hex socket. Test for clearance with your spring adjustment screwdriver. Trim the screwdriver blade down with grinder wheel or file if needed.
- Hammer Spring Bend the hammer sleeve end of the spring outward and downward so it can grab the slots in the hammer sleeve. On the spring adjuster end of the spring, close the last coil in a little so the spring grips the cone early and gets a good grip and doesnt slip over the spring adjuster.
- End Cap Remove the OEM spring adjuster and screw the gap adjuster set screw into the degas tool threads.
- Optional Nylon Bolt threaded into the Hammer Bolt Head - Drilling the hole in the exact center of the hammer bolt head can be tricky. Here is one way to create a jig using your Marauder parts to assist you in doing this:
Insert the threaded end of the hammer bolt through the back of the hammer (opposite of the final assembly). Next insert the large threaded portion of the OEM spring adjuster into the hammer. Use a 1/4 drill bit inserted through the OEM spring adjuster and drill a dimple to help start/guide the #26 drill bit. Use the #26 drill bit and 3/16-24 tap to drill and tap for the 3/16-24 x 1/2 nylon bolt. Cut and file the head off of the nylon bolt flush with the hammer face. See the last image above for a visual reference of the jig setup.
The above DIY SSG build is based on a 12.5lb x 2.5 x 0.48 OD spring with a 1/4" long hammer sleeve. There are a number of alternate configurations you can do as well for other types of tunes or results. I have not tried all of the below configurations, but you may want to consider trying them for your particular tuning needs. Installing a longer hammer sleeve can prevent hammer tilt more and even make cocking smoother, but may cause additional drag too???
- (ackurics idea) 16lb x 2 x 0.48 OD spring and a 1/2" long hammer sleeve. The idea is to have a short and strong spring with little to no preload and easier cocking for a low ES. This is one I will try when I get time. It sounds really good for a power tune.
- 14.8lb x 3 x 0.36 OD spring cut down to match your tuning needs or the hammer sleeve length installed (1/4" or 1/2"). This spring has a closer tolerance to the hammer bolt and does not bend outward as much when cocked like the larger diameter 2.5 x 0.48 OD springs do. You will need to spread the last coils out more to grab the hammer sleeve and spring adjuster better. Im currently testing this spring out and am getting 30 shots with a 1.68% ES at 31.4 FPE. This spring has allowed me to increase the starting FPS to more closely match the peak FPS for a lower ES in my high power tune. Being 3 long has also allowed me to cut it to the exact length for a zero preload tune.
- If you have a regulated gun a 10lb spring maybe all you need with a hammer sleeve. You decide.
Instructions for Tuning the Gen 2 Internal DIY SSG:
These instructions are based on a 3000 psi fill aiming for an 850 FPS average tune with whatever pellet you want to use and with whatever platform you choose. These instructions can be adjusted for any other desired max fill pressure or FPS.
These instructions assume you have the DIY SSG installed and the Valve Metering Screw (VMS) set to the full open position (5.5 turns counterclockwise from full clockwise position).
- Establish a gap between the hammer bolt and the valve poppet. Start with around a 1/32 gap. Dont get too technical here as you will be fine tuning this gap later. Just establish a small gap for now. There are a couple of ways to do this:
- Pull the stock and remove the three trigger assembly screws. Pull the assembly and you can visually see the gap area and insert a premeasured object to adjust the gap.
- With gun fully assembled, use the gap adjustment hex tool and run the gap set screw in until you feel the bolt hit the poppet then turn back a half-turn.
- Fill the gun to 2600 PSI using your fill gauge (not gun gauge). This is the approximate midpoint and peak FPS of your future string.
- Take a few shots over the chronograph. If you get a low reading say around 500-600 FPS, start turning the spring adjustment counterclockwise. You should be seeing an increase in FPS. Keep adjusting until you see 850-860 FPS. After five shots refill back to 2600 PSI until you reach 850-860 FPS.
- When you get close to 850-860 FPS you can begin playing with the gap adjustment to fine tune. The more gap you have, the more spring tension you will need and may run out of spring so only a very small gap is needed/desired.
- If increasing the spring tension and all of a sudden you cant engage the sear anymore, you have reached full coil bind and need to back off on the spring tension by turning the spring adjuster clockwise until the sear will engage again. At this point the gap has to go smaller or you need a stronger spring to achieve your goal. If youre tuning for 14.3s, 18.1s or .177 pellets to an 850 FPS average, you shouldnt experience this providing your gap is not too large. The 21.14gn are very close to full coil bind at an 850 FPS average. You will need a stronger spring for the .25 calibers to push the heavies to an 850 FPS average.
- Dont turn the spring adjustment too far clockwise to the point that it runs into the gap adjuster or off the end of the hammer bolt affecting the gap adjustment.
- Fill the gun to 3000 PSI and shoot a full string using up 900 to 1000 PSI of air based off the fill gauge you started with. The results should show a bell curve. Tweak more if needed.
If you are happy with your tune you may be able to further improve the efficiency by doing the following:
Fill back to the peak of the string (2500-2600psi). Begin turning the VMS clockwise at the peak until the VMS starts to affect the peak FPS. Turn the VMS back counterclockwise just slightly until the peak FPS returns. This step may eliminate wasted air per shot further and may increase your shot count without affecting your current tune.
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I've only been air gunning a month but I've been all over the internet reading about mods, specifically HDD's and this is the most comprehensive detailed instruction set I've yet to see. Other's have scrawled notes, promises of video's and pictures that are out of focus.
I can not believe you haven't packaged these parts and sold them for profit after all this work you have invested. If you have then where can I order it?
I do have a question. How has the nylon spring adjuster (cone) held up? I imagine it is fine as you've tested the gun thoroughly by this point.
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Keith,
You have done a wonderful job of documenting this DIY mod, here and on other forums. I appreciate the effort and time you have spent on this and related mods, and sharing with all. It is what these forums are about. Thx. :)
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I've only been air gunning a month but I've been all over the internet reading about mods, specifically HDD's and this is the most comprehensive detailed instruction set I've yet to see. Other's have scrawled notes, promises of video's and pictures that are out of focus.
I can not believe you haven't packaged these parts and sold them for profit after all this work you have invested. If you have then where can I order it?
I do have a question. How has the nylon spring adjuster (cone) held up? I imagine it is fine as you've tested the gun thoroughly by this point.
Thanks Tony! I say if you're going to do it, then do it. Please forgive any errors in grammar. I'm challenged in my writing and internet skills.
It's a great mod that in some cases will double your shot count and reduce the shot noise by half. The best part about the DIY SSG is the ease of tuning. You don't have to mod or change the look of your gun at all or take anything apart to make any adjustments either. The spring tension adjustment and gap adjustment are independent of each other too. If you want to increase or decrease the spring tension go ahead, the gap adjustment will remain the same.
I invented another mod that if installed with this mod, will practically eliminate hammer galling in the air tube and make cocking really smooth and much easier. Here's the link to it: DIY F.A.M.E. Mod Build (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.msg1098259#msg1098259/). The two mods together are an awesome combination.
I have thought about offering the DIY SSG for sale, but haven't had time to do so and I would want to have Bob Sterne's approval first as he is the pioneer behind the SSG idea (He pioneered the external SSG). Also, that would take the DIY part away which is why I'm posting these detailed build instructions for others to begin with. The parts needed to build this DIY SSG is really minimal and that is a big part of my idea too.
The nylon spring adjuster pictured is the same one I use today and has been in my gun since about February of this year when I first built the mod. It looks the same as day one and has been removed and installed many times. It has seen many shots over 900 FPS.
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Keith,
You have done a wonderful job of documenting this DIY mod, here and on other forums. I appreciate the effort and time you have spent on this and related mods, and sharing with all. It is what these forums are about. Thx. :)
Thanks John! You know you'll always be a friend and a part of this DIY SSG idea too. Your ideas and input along the way in building and designing it and your free shipment of springs to me for testing it will always be remembered.
This is my current hobby when I want to part from reality or ignore my chores for awhile. I have a lot of fun shooting, tuning, testing and posting my ideas and results. Without the forum, some of my fun would be gone.
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This mod does work great. My .25 went from 16 shots to 24 at the same fps while giving me a tighter ES.
50% increase in shots. If you use locktite or glue to hold down adjustments, use lots and let it set.
The 2" spring method (allowing for more surface area on hammer guide) can be done with a 16# spring or 11.5# spring from mcmaster, I may try the 11.5# 2" spring some day for kicks.
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This mod does work great. My .25 went from 16 shots to 24 at the same fps while giving me a tighter ES.
50% increase in shots. If you use locktite or glue to hold down adjustments, use lots and let it set.
The 2" spring method (allowing for more surface area on hammer guide) can be done with a 16# spring or 11.5# spring from mcmaster, I may try the 11.5# 2" spring some day for kicks.
Thanks Matt! I picked up some 1/2" x 1/2" spacers just this week for the hammer sleeve and can't wait to check out your idea/setup. I was able to find a 1/2" spacer with the center hole already punched out to .257" at HD. I don't even have to drill out the center hole and it's very smooth. I still need to get the 16lb 2" spring though.
I did post a link to a gap adjuster with thread-locking for those concerned about it moving on them. Thanks for the insight on that as well!
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I have spare 16#'s and I just ordered 11.5# 2" springs that should in my hands by Thursday I hope.
I can send you one or two of each if you'd like, just cover shipping costs (2.60$ w/ tracking).
I'm going to aim for as high of a shot count as possible on the 11.5# spring, hoping for 24-32 shots @ <2% es with 800-815 fps from a .25 cal...I figure I might as well get the most out of my ssg and I don't mind sacrificing a few FPS to do so.
The 16# spring is great but I figure for a 37 fpe/shot count tune its overkill and I can try out the 11.5#. I was able to get 25.4gr pellets up to 880-890 with minimal pre-load on the 16# on a stock valve (no bell curve).
That spacer is the same spacer I used with the I.D of .257, you can definitely feel how smoothly the bolt rides/glides on it.
Another benefit of using a 1/2 inch spacer in the hammer and 2" spring is it requires no cutting of springs, which quite a few others require and can have variation from one cut spring to another. I know its generally emphasized to use a longer lighter spring in ssg's, but I have yet to see any evidence, theoretical or in my applied tests to show a shorter(2") stiffer (16#) spring has any adverse effects, in fact I achieved better results in my tests so far.
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I have spare 16#'s and I just ordered 11.5# 2" springs that should in my hands by Thursday I hope.
I can send you one or two of each if you'd like, just cover shipping costs (2.60$ w/ tracking).
I'm going to aim for as high of a shot count as possible on the 11.5# spring, hoping for 24-32 shots @ <2% es with 800-815 fps from a .25 cal...I figure I might as well get the most out of my ssg and I don't mind sacrificing a few FPS to do so.
The 16# spring is great but I figure for a 37 fpe/shot count tune its overkill and I can try out the 11.5#. I was able to get 25.4gr pellets up to 880-890 with minimal pre-load on the 16# on a stock valve (no bell curve).
That spacer is the same spacer I used with the I.D of .257, you can definitely feel how smoothly the bolt rides/glides on it.
Another benefit of using a 1/2 inch spacer in the hammer and 2" spring is it requires no cutting of springs, which quite a few others require and can have variation from one cut spring to another. I know its generally emphasized to use a longer lighter spring in ssg's, but I have yet to see any evidence, theoretical or in my applied tests to show a shorter(2") stiffer (16#) spring has any adverse effects, in fact I achieved better results in my tests so far.
Thanks for the offer! I'll be adding the 2" springs to my next McMaster-Carr order.
Do you have the F.A.M.E. mod installed in your .25 cal? Do you have a .22 cal with the mods? I don't have a .25 cal but I like to compare apples-to-apples results with the mods and different configurations with someone that enjoys tinkering as much as shooting like me.
I'm a little concerned about the .257" I.D of the 1/2" spacer. I've checked it with a 1/4-20 bolt and it does have more play than I care for. I do have some other 1/2" spacers that require drilling if I find it's an issue.
With the current 14.8lb spring and no spacer/hammer sleeve I'm testing, cocking is still very smooth and very doable. The F.A.M.E. mod is working very well without the hammer sleeve. I wouldn't go without the hammer sleeve with no F.A.M.E. mod though for sure. I do have the spring length at 2.7" and believe that is why the cocking is fairly easy. My current setup has the spring actually attached to the hammer itself and not just sitting against the hammer. I've only had time to do a quick test string with this setup, but the results got my attention. I have been shooting with it a lot while pesting and playing around with it and I like the power, but will probably back off a bit for more shots.
Here are the results of that test and is where I have it tuned to now:
(https://image.ibb.co/fqhusv/JSB_11_8_27_16_zpsyhjqlt94.jpg)
As you can see 30 shots at an average of 31.40 FPE with a 1.68% ES is not bad at all for an unregulated gun. What got my attention the most was that the VMS adjustments I made on my previous tunes had no effect at there previous settings on this configuration. I also believe the spring is pulling back on the hammer after the shot and giving me a much better ES average.
When I get caught up on my home projects, I'll do more testing with this setup and also the 2" 16lb and 1/2 hammer sleeve you recommend and see what the differences are between them.
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Yes I have the F.A.M.E mod done, but only have the .25 cal.
FYI when you cut that "14.8#" spring down to 2.7 inches of length roughly...you increase the spring rate to about 19#...so I wouldn't call it a 14.8# spring when you're modifying its length and rate. This is why I told you on the other forum that the 16# spring is easier...by far, than the 14.8# spring cut down, which in reality makes it a 19.X# spring.
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Drilling out the gap adjuster is proving to be difficult.
I snapped five 1/8 drill bits and two 1/16 drill bits. I figured I might have more success drilling a small pilot first.
I just got back from Lowes and purchased 1/8 cobalt drill bit. Hopefully those work better then the standard high speed bits I blasted through. I'll continue in the morning, too frustrated to go on now. If anyone has any tips please let me know. Or else I'm just going to power through with these new bits no matter how many it takes.
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Ohboy...it took me about 2-3 hrs to drill through the gap adjuster by hand using a Cobalt bit...granted towards the end I started using more force and started making faster progress...2 18v batteries later lol
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Drilling out the gap adjuster is proving to be difficult.
I snapped five 1/8 drill bits and two 1/16 drill bits. I figured I might have more success drilling a small pilot first.
I just got back from Lowes and purchased 1/8 cobalt drill bit. Hopefully those work better then the standard high speed bits I blasted through. I'll continue in the morning, too frustrated to go on now. If anyone has any tips please let me know. Or else I'm just going to power through with these new bits no matter how many it takes.
It took me around 30 minutes to drill mine if my memory is correct. I used a drill press and cutting oil. I did use a smaller bit and stepped up to the 1/8" bit. It was hard material to drill for sure. I didn't let the bit get too hot and used a medium speed with decent force. I did use sharp quality bits. Hope you have better luck today!
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Yes I have the F.A.M.E mod done, but only have the .25 cal.
FYI when you cut that "14.8#" spring down to 2.7 inches of length roughly...you increase the spring rate to about 19#...so I wouldn't call it a 14.8# spring when you're modifying its length and rate. This is why I told you on the other forum that the 16# spring is easier...by far, than the 14.8# spring cut down, which in reality makes it a 19.X# spring.
Well I won't say you're wrong here because I'm no expert for sure. I am trying to wrap my head around this though. The compression length is 1.32" and I'm only cocking it back 1/2" tops. I only took off .3". When cocking, it feels about the same as the 12.5lb spring. However, the 12.5lb spring was being cocked back to near full coil bind and only has a .93" compression length. I will be testing the 16lb for sure and then I'll see what you are saying first-hand :D
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Bob(rsterne) has noted how cutting springs shorter INCREASES their rate (lbs per inch)....
Again, this is just simple math and how springs work.... use a spring rate calculator like I have. You cannot cut a spring shorter and obtain the same spring rate...
Its like people who cut their stock springs on their car for a lower ride...guess what happens, you lose ride quality due to the springs being much stiffer...and they aren't even cutting a full coil!
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Bob(rsterne) has noted how cutting springs shorter INCREASES their rate (lbs per inch)....
Again, this is just simple math and how springs work.... use a spring rate calculator like I have. You cannot cut a spring shorter and obtain the same spring rate...
Its like people who cut their stock springs on their car for a lower ride...guess what happens, you lose ride quality due to the springs being much stiffer...and they aren't even cutting a full coil!
Thanks! I ran the spring calculator and do see what you mean. I came up with 18.3lbs. Cocking it sure doesn't seem much harder to me than the 12.5lb really, but the cocking is really smooth with the F.A.M.E. mod so it's hard to tell. I could be wrong.
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I'm a happy camper today.
After a horrible night of failure, I woke up and got to it. It took me about 75 minutes start to finish.
I used 3 cobalt drill bits, 1/32, 1/16, and 1/8. I should have gotten a 11/64 because there is enough room, especially if you watch your depth, to drill the adjuster out without messing with the hex key slots. That would give a lot more room to put your driver in. I drilled down from the cup side, I found it easier to find the center for the bit and it was easier to monitor progress.
The hardest longest part was putting the right amount of pressure on the small bits. They are fragile, but they also cut faster. Once I got through with the 1/32 in about 50 minutes, the 1/16 went through in about 10 or so and the 1/8 in another 10.
I don't see how someone does this without a drill press though. I just can't picture that.
I'm polishing and getting ready for assemble. Really this is a great guide and the gap adjuster the only tough part.
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Tony, glad to hear you've had some success and hope it continues ;D
One thing I experienced that is worth mentioning is when you change the friction points of the hammer and air tube by adding the DIY SSG build, you may need to take the SSG out and smooth out and clean the hammer, air tube and bolt again after a number of shots. This really helped when I did this to make it work smoother after the initial install and break-in period. If you're lucky you may not need to, but not a bad idea anyways. Just food for thought.
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Do you think the plastic threaded spacer that captures the the spring on the 1/4-20 bolt will fail? That seems like allot of pressure when cocked on a plastic thread. Would it be feasible to make an aluminum piece instead of using the plastic? Shooting season is winding down in MT so I will be doing mods to my .25 Mrod over the winter and this will be one of them.
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Do you think the plastic threaded spacer that captures the the spring on the 1/4-20 bolt will fail? That seems like allot of pressure when cocked on a plastic thread. Would it be feasible to make an aluminum piece instead of using the plastic? Shooting season is winding down in MT so I will be doing mods to my .25 Mrod over the winter and this will be one of them.
The nylon spring adjuster pictured is the same one I use today and has been in my gun since about February of this year when I first built the mod. It looks the same as day one and has been removed and installed many times. It has seen many shots over 900 FPS. It has held up without issues.
The aluminum may work, but I don't think it will grab the spring and hold it tight when turning CW or CCW when tuning. You might could attached the spring to it somehow. It also may spin on the bolt while shooting. You don't want that.
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as long as the nylon holds up I wouldnt be worried. no need to mod it if its gonna work and last.
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as long as the nylon holds up I wouldnt be worried. no need to mod it if its gonna work and last.
I use it with a 3" 14.8lb spring that has been cut shorter. That's a pretty good test of it.
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I wanted to update my progress for others who are on the fence with doing this.
If you have a drill press and a 1/4-20 tap you can get this project done. I will be making a second in my free time now that I have the experience of the first.
Things I will focus on are smoothing and polishing the drilled out hammer, hammer screw, hammer nylon guide and a cleaner slot for the screw driver as well as buying a screwdriver specifically for adjustments. These are all simple things to do, and will kill the boredom over the winter months.
These are not necessary however. Once you upgrade to this ssg you will soon find that smoothness and less resistance is your friend but by no means do you have to go these extra steps to increase performance with the mod.
On my build, I followed the instructions exactly but used my factory 10lbs spring. I have a regulator on the way so from what I read the extra strength spring isn't necessary. During tuning I had a failure, the spring slid over the nylon spring adjuster. I had turned in the last spring coil and coned the nylon guide but while tuning I cranked the spacer all the way in just to see what the effect was and it slide over the nylon spring adjuster. After closing the spring more and using the same adjuster, it solved all the problems. I will say it is important to have the cone portion and the last coil of the spring mate properly. To wide and it will go over under extreme force, to narrow and it wont grab the spacer which wont allow for tuning as the spring grabbing the nylon is what keeps it from spinning when you turn the hammer screw. I reassembled and put 120 or so flawless pellets through the gun after adjusting the spring to nylon fitment.
I tuned it like the instructions say and finally got solid performance from my gun. This is superior to the FFH I had installed in the gun due to the tune ability and smoother action, though still stiff it's not coarse like the ffh is.
I can't thank TriggerTreat enough for detailing where to get the parts, how to assemble them and how to tune. This really should be the first place people look when they want the add an ssg to their marauder without buying one premade.
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Thanks for the update Tony!! Great info for those on the fence.
One thing I did to smooth out the edges of the 1/4" hammer hole was to follow up with a 1/2" bit just to knock the sharp edges off. That made the bolt slide across the edges smoother. For the interior edge, you might drop down to the next size bit for easier entry. I did use a 1/2" bit on both sides, but had to power through the interior side and it was not easy to do.
Glad to hear the instructions are sufficient to accomplish the build and tuning. I was hopeful that they were and tried to keep them as concise as possible.
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Coming to the party late as usual.... ::)
Having drilled out more than my share of stripped/rusted in set screws (27yrs repairing oilfield instrumentation)....they are hardened steel, and annealing them first makes drilling quick and easy. ;)
Heat to cherry red then let cool slowly to room temp.
Al
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Thanks for the update Tony!! Great info for those on the fence.
One thing I did to smooth out the edges of the 1/4" hammer hole was to follow up with a 1/2" bit just to knock the sharp edges off. That made the bolt slide across the edges smoother. For the interior edge, you might drop down to the next size bit for easier entry. I did use a 1/2" bit on both sides, but had to power through the interior side and it was not easy to do.
Glad to hear the instructions are sufficient to accomplish the build and tuning. I was hopeful that they were and tried to keep them as concise as possible.
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I actually used a dremel polishing stone and it beveled both the interior and exterior of the 1/4 hammer hole. I wish I had a 1/4 inch stone to slide in the whole itself though. I used my worksharp belt sander to make the bolt look like a mirror.
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Reporting back with my findings on the 2" 11# spring, on the .25 cal I could only get 780ish fps max, so I swapped back to the 16# spring which I don't mind at all and am getting my desired 800-820 fps tune, a 845-865fps, and a 895-925 tune if I so desire.
I suppose the 11# spring would work for .177 or .22 cal. The 16# spring is going to be what I settle with for the time being. I may give the 11# spring another go some time who knows.
Also I am not using the F.A.M.E. mod in some of my recent tests as I have noticed its not necessary with the 1/2" spacer in the hammer. I do however still use a 1/4" water line tube on the cocking lug to keep the hammer from wiggling so much.
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Thanks for the update Tony!! Great info for those on the fence.
One thing I did to smooth out the edges of the 1/4" hammer hole was to follow up with a 1/2" bit just to knock the sharp edges off. That made the bolt slide across the edges smoother. For the interior edge, you might drop down to the next size bit for easier entry. I did use a 1/2" bit on both sides, but had to power through the interior side and it was not easy to do.
Glad to hear the instructions are sufficient to accomplish the build and tuning. I was hopeful that they were and tried to keep them as concise as possible.
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I actually used a dremel polishing stone and it beveled both the interior and exterior of the 1/4 hammer hole. I wish I had a 1/4 inch stone to slide in the whole itself though. I used my worksharp belt sander to make the bolt look like a mirror.
Great tip Tony. I think you'll agree with my experiences that the hammer sleeve's close tolerance to the bolt takes care of the rough hammer hole edges for the most part. This is because the sleeve removes the hammer tilt that causes the problem with the rough edges. If you go without the hammer sleeve, the smoothness of the hole's edges is very important to get the best results. Having the interior of the hole really smooth is very important. I've used a steel dowel wrapped with sandpaper to smooth out my hammer's hole. Drilling out the threads carefully to begin with is important, but it still needs smoothing out more too.
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Reporting back with my findings on the 2" 11# spring, on the .25 cal I could only get 780ish fps max, so I swapped back to the 16# spring which I don't mind at all and am getting my desired 800-820 fps tune, a 845-865fps, and a 895-925 tune if I so desire.
I suppose the 11# spring would work for .177 or .22 cal. The 16# spring is going to be what I settle with for the time being. I may give the 11# spring another go some time who knows.
Also I am not using the F.A.M.E. mod in some of my recent tests as I have noticed its not necessary with the 1/2" spacer in the hammer. I do however still use a 1/4" water line tube on the cocking lug to keep the hammer from wiggling so much.
I was thinking that would be your findings with the 11lb. The 2.5" 12.5lb uncut gets the velocity up better for a good ES on a medium to medium high velocity tune on the .22 cal. Thanks for posting your findings.
The 1/2" hammer sleeve does sound good and you know I have them in my possession. What kind of ES numbers are you getting? Sure would like to see a full string. It would be great to eliminate the F.A.M.E. mod, but the hammer would have to glide really, really smooth with the heavier springs for me to do so. I have recently received and am now testing the new F.I.F.H (F.A.M.E. Inspired Floating Hammer). It's going to be awhile before I can test them. The F.I.F.H is looking pretty good so far, but is not a DIY mod like the F.A.M.E. is
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I keep my Extreme spread under 2.5% personally and my lowest SD on a 16 shot mid-range power tune was 2.0...basically that of a regulated gun's sd, most times my SD ends up around 4-6 though.
I can say this, I achieve repeat numbers (back to back) quite often, and on one of my latest strings saw repeat numbers 3x in a row...granted the decimal changed on one of them, still quite a feat (or luck of the draw with pellet weight), and my Climb into my curve is generally a 1-3 SD until it peaks, with slight bounce back and forth between peak and mid curve until it curves back down more sharply with a 4-6 SD.
My efficiency is currently 1.91 FPE / cu in @ 810 fps avg, using 22 psi per shot for 40 shots. What kind of efficiency are you getting?
Can't wait to hear your findings on the F.I.F.H mod, although I doubt this is a route I'd ever go due to it not being D.I.Y...nor do I see it providing any extra benefit to my current configuration. What I personally need is a regulator and a modified valve to give me the same shot count as my current tune with a few more fps and a half the ES. The only way anyone's achieving a 1-1.5% ES over a really high shot count is regulated. For now..I'm happy with my 2.5% high shot count.
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I've only had time to do one quick tune with the F.I.F.H so far, but here are the results:
(https://image.ibb.co/cqbU9a/FIFH_02_zpsknkqmrfa.jpg)
I just threw it in after a quick adjustment of the set screws to match my air tube. I set the peak FPS at 2550 psi then filled and ran the string. I will spend more time adjusting the hammer's set screws along with adjusting the tune more and will see how far I can go with it. The cocking is just as smooth as the F.A.M.E. mod. You can see the air used per shot. 30 shots averaging 22 psi per shot is not bad for a 31 FPE average on a .22 cal. 1.36% ES is the lowest I've ever gotten with that much power too.
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Running your numbers brings me to 1.6 fpe/cu in and 22 psi used per shot for 31 fpe, not bad at all...but I am using the same amount of air to toss a much heavier pellet (25.4gr) at 37 fpe / 810 fps, and on a 30 shot tune I see a %1.5< ES. Guess us .25 cal's are more efficient than .22's.
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That's fine by me. I don't care anything about being the best or having the best. I'd rather that title go to someone else. I'm just posting my mods and the results I get for anyone interested. I've never been much interested in a .25 cal because of the low shot count and being a hand pumper. Also, they are overkill for my backyard needs and louder than my .22 cal from what I've read. For what it's worth, I have two large DIY vinyl tubes in my air tube to reduce/eliminate the ping. These take up some air space as well.
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.25 cal does not have low shot count (40-50 shot tunes easily possible), as well as its very backyard friendly, just as much as a .22...the only noise increase is really the 7-10fpe noticed down range, which if I want to shoot in my backyard at < 25 yards, I detune to my .25 cal to a 12 FPE gun which is uber quiet...provides tons of shots and is within a dime all day.
I also have an aftermarket Depinger in my .25 cal which reduces my air capacity as well.
I'm not trying to say which is better, .22 or .25 thats not what this thread is about, its about the DIY SSG and I simply state my observations and notes. The main reason I went with a .25 cal over a .22 is because it does not require an aftermarket barrel to perform, and also has more usability imo, since I can tune from 9 FPE to 59 FPE if I so please. Having a 50 FPE cushion to tune with allows me a lot of different options.
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That's great but is getting off topic with this thread. I created this thread for the Gen II DIY SSG mod. I would like to stay focused on that mod here. There are plenty of other threads focused more on the benefits of a .25 cal verses a .22 cal. Thanks!
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DIY F.A.M.E. Mod Build (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.msg1098259#msg1098259/)
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Wrapping up the year and looking back on my accomplishments this year with designing and building the DIY SSG and F.A.M.E. mods for the Marauders, I decided to compile and post some of the strings I was able to get with these mods. I will say that most of the strings were with the F.I.F.H. hammer designed by SynRodSteve that was inspired by the F.A.M.E. mod, hence the name Fame Inspired Floating Hammer. The string results are the same whether I used the F.A.M.E. mod or the F.I.F.H. hammer from Steve. My current DIY SSG setup is with the F.I.F.H. hammer and has been for many months. You can PM SynRodSteve if interested in your own F.I.F.H. hammer.
Here is what my current DIY SSG with the F.I.F.H. hammer looks like: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=113888.msg1121394#msg1121394 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=113888.msg1121394#msg1121394)
All of the strings are with my non-regulated Synrod that has a stock valve and port sizing. The fills were from 2950-3000psi shot down to 2200-2000psi. many of the shots in each string are within 2% ES.
(https://image.ibb.co/mFQdkF/SSG_FAME_FIFH_SUM_zpsgj9y12ar.jpg)
I have detailed build instruction links in my previous post if interested. Happy New Year to All ;D ;D ;D
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Hello Trig I tried this tonight but with the parts listed I was not able to get the gap adjusted to the poppet pin. It ends up running out of threads. I'm using a .25cal if that matters at all. Maybe need a 3/4" length gap adjuster? I'll attempt a string tomorrow. IDon't think I have a strong enough spring either. I cut down a 10lb spring and stretched it a bit. Thanks for sharing your SSG.
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How long is your bolts total length? Do you have a Gen 2? You need to start at least with a 12.lb spring then go up from there if needed based on desired velocity.
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Yes gen 2. The SS bolt is 2.63" according to my calipers. I'll look into a larger spring I have to recut the spring adjuster slot anyways I made it to wide and it wont turn so have to take apart to adjust lol. First try bugs I guess. I'm going to order a new hammer from crossman since I drilled this one out to toy around. I dont know what kind of spring it would take to get me up to 80fpe but even this 10lb is about as hard to cock as shorty SSS.
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Something is a miss. Maybe you shaved the bolt head down? First time I have heard of this issue and many have built it. You could always go with the next length gap adjuster to solve.
80 FPE, I assume you are opening up the ports. If not, get ready for some hard cocking cause you're gonna need a big spring.
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I can get 80fpe with short's SSS down to 40fpe. Just looking into other ways to get there. I'm planning on around 45fpe for the 25gr and 60fpe for the 34gr JSB's. Since I have the Texan I really dont need more than that out of the mrod. I have not filed anything on the bolt. Yes I have .187 ports throughout and hogged valve. I'll report back tomorrow with a short baseline 2400psi start point.
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With the SSG you are fighting the additional bolt mass and gap with the spring. I am not sure of the spring needed with your setup.
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I shot 3 quick shots before work with the 10lb spring and 2300psi and was at 865fps. Will keep at it and use this spring and setup for low power tuning. I'll order a 16lb for higher power. I'll report back with a lower power tune today.
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I use 2" springs that are SO SO SO much easier to cock than 2.5" springs of the same rating
2.5" spring @ 10lb = 1 lb for every .25 of spring...
2" spring @ 10 lbs = 1 lb for every .2 of spring....
So if you, in an mrod, are cocking .7 inches (with a .05 gap) then that means...
On the 2.5" spring with 0 pre-load you get 2.5 lbs of spring force from cocking this distance
On the 2" spring with 0 pre-load you get 3.5 lbs of spring force cocking from this distance
It's easier to cock LESS distance for MORE rating as distance is a huge factor as well as spring stability which longer springs DON'T have, they fatigue really quick, they feel softer and more wobbly.../end rant
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Well, figured out why I can't get 0 gap. I picked up the wrong length! I got 3/8" lol. Back to the drill press on lunch break to drill that agonizing 1/8" hole in the gap adjuster.
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Well, figured out why I can't get 0 gap. I picked up the wrong length! I got 3/8" lol. Back to the drill press on lunch break to drill that agonizing 1/8" hole in the gap adjuster.
Oh man, I feel your pain! I just drilled a new gap adjuster for myself and my custom SSG last night, it's 1/4" instead of the 1/2" Keith uses in his, although it was easier, I do them by hand so it took me around an hour! Now I have to drill a 1/4"+ pocket around half way through this 1/4" one...UGH!
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Well, figured out why I can't get 0 gap. I picked up the wrong length! I got 3/8" lol. Back to the drill press on lunch break to drill that agonizing 1/8" hole in the gap adjuster.
Lol I knew it was something. I did drill out the end cap to allow for the most spring space and also to keep the spring adjuster from catching on anything for the best ES. The longer spring space allows for the most spring length and easiest cocking. You can even get a 3" spring and cut it off for what you need to fit in there. I have cut a spring longer than the bolt and compressed it down before installing the spring adjuster which gave me a head start on spring preload for more power.
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Got that thing drilled On lunch. Took 10 shots from 2700psi around 920-930fps with the 25gr Kings. Going to need to dial that down a bit. ;) that's with the 10lb spring.
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Got that thing drilled On lunch. Took 10 shots from 2700psi around 920-930fps with the 25gr Kings. Going to need to dial that down a bit. ;) that's with the 10lb spring.
I think that is the hardest part to do to the mod. Let me know what you think of the DIY SSG. Not as many views on this forum, but am at nearly 16,500 views on the Marauder forum so some folks must be liking and building it. If you like it, got to thank Bob Sterne for the SSG innovation. I just made my own version and shared what I did. I like it and the ease of adjustments and results.
I invented a mod I called the F.A.M.E. mod (Friction Assist Marauder Enhancement) that works nicely with the DIY SSG mod for easier cocking and it eliminates hammer galling. Here is the link if interested. You will have really smooth cocking if you choose to install it.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.msg1055893#msg1055893 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.msg1055893#msg1055893)
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Yeah for sure thanks to Bob and yourself. It started raining so had to quit testing. Looks like there is a very fine line between 900 and 800 fps like a half a turn on preload. But I'm down to 2000psi after 4 mags and was still getting 910ish fps minus the one that was 798fps every shot has been over 905fps. That's pretty impressive. Looks like it will tune pretty much like shorty's SSS. 2800-2600psi start and probably around 1800 ending for around 32-35 shots at 45fpe. Works for me. Still have lot of preload available on the spring so should be able to get around 55-60fpe out of this V2. Will need a stronger spring if I want higher power. At 3000psi it has valve lock 850fps with same preload.
Thanks for the share Trig gave me something to play with for a day or 2! 8)
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Looks like I need a regulator the way my gun is set up. One set at 1900psi would be about perfect i think. At any rate here is a string I just shot from 2400psi down to 1900psi with JSB king 25.4gr. Lets call this my low power tune. ;) Look at the efficiency! Holy smokes :o I did a double take when I looked at the gauge on the last shot.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/aceflier/45fpe.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/aceflier/media/45fpe.jpg.html)
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Looks like I need a regulator the way my gun is set up. One set at 1900psi would be about perfect i think. At any rate here is a string I just shot from 2400psi down to 1900psi with JSB king 25.4gr. Lets call this my low power tune. ;) Look at the efficiency! Holy smokes :o I did a double take when I looked at the gauge on the last shot.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/aceflier/45fpe.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/aceflier/media/45fpe.jpg.html)
Yes that is some stellar efficiency. I do have a .25 that is regulated with .1875 porting and was set at 1920 psi for the last tune I did with the JSB 25.39s. I only got a 1.34 per cu/in efficiency in my 35 shot tune. The strings average was 41.03 FPE (853fps) with a 1.98% ES (17 fps). This was from a 3200 fill down to 1800. Hmm might have to install my DIY SSG and give it a try as I have not tried it in it yet to see what would happen. I have been using and loving the TSS thus far with it, but really think I am using too light of a hammer and that is the problem with efficiency in mine.
My last tune was with 33.95gr MKII pellets and you can see it in my signature below. It was not as efficient as I would like either, but I did not have a gap set on the TSS as it was a quick setup and tune just to get on paper. I was just trying to hit 50 FPE at the time.
Glad to see the DIY SSG is working out for you and was worth your efforts to build it. keep us updated.
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60fpe tune. Not stellar but still great efficiency at this power. Did this tune in 4 shots adjusting from 2700psi. All the power I need for this rifle. I can get more also hit 960fps at 3000psi and still not coil bind so still room for more. This one is pretty similar to the 25.4gr tune but less shots with the 33.95gr MKII's. Went ahead and locked that gap down with blue loctite. I like it where it is. ;)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/aceflier/Mrod%20Tunes/60fpe.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/aceflier/media/Mrod%20Tunes/60fpe.jpg.html)
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60fpe tune. Not stellar but still great efficiency at this power. Did this tune in 4 shots adjusting from 2700psi. All the power I need for this rifle. I can get more also hit 960fps at 3000psi and still not coil bind so still room for more. This one is pretty similar to the 25.4gr tune but less shots with the 33.95gr MKII's. Went ahead and locked that gap down with blue loctite. I like it where it is. ;)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/aceflier/Mrod%20Tunes/60fpe.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/aceflier/media/Mrod%20Tunes/60fpe.jpg.html)
Pretty stellar results you're getting! Gotta love the SSG, getting 1.4+ efficiency at higher power was unheard of before them!
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That is eleven coyotes down with only 500 psi. That is some excellent results with a inexpensive mod. I really like both the tunes you posted. Sounds like you have locked it down and are now going to go and enjoy it.
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That is eleven coyotes down with only 500 psi. That is some excellent results with a inexpensive mod. I really like both the tunes you posted. Sounds like you have locked it down and are now going to go and enjoy it.
Yeah I'm going to leave it right there for now. Now I've got to decide what I want for fathers day. A reservoir extension OR an RL shroud for my Texan. ;D
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Well, Accuracy was horrid at those speeds with the mkII's. Inch left/right/up/down at 40yds. Dialed down to 55fpe and she's one ragged hole. I'll take the extra shots and accuracy over the 5fpe.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/aceflier/Mrod%20Tunes/sweetspot55.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/aceflier/media/Mrod%20Tunes/sweetspot55.jpg.html)
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Sounds like you have the DIY SSG dialed in with big power!
Here is a link back to the build details for anyone else wanting to try the DIY SSG:
DIY SSG Build (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110660.msg1108165#msg1108165)
Here is the link to the F.A.M.E. build details for anyone interested in easy and smooth cocking:
DIY F.A.M.E. Build (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110568.msg1055893#msg1055893)
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Had the rifle completely tore apart today to make sure no water is getting into my rifle with my altaros setup. Everything looks good so threw it back together filled to 2700psi and shot this with about 1/8 turn down on HS. (BTW love that altaros fills my Mrod in 2minutes to 2700psi.)
Easy peasy!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA8-cVKbsS0&feature=youtu.be#[/url)
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Looks like I need a regulator the way my gun is set up. One set at 1900psi would be about perfect i think. At any rate here is a string I just shot from 2400psi down to 1900psi with JSB king 25.4gr. Lets call this my low power tune. ;) Look at the efficiency! Holy smokes :o I did a double take when I looked at the gauge on the last shot.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/aceflier/45fpe.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/aceflier/media/45fpe.jpg.html)
Most excellent!!!! Very nice work indeed sir.
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Thanks Travis all the work was done by shorty on the valve and light valve spring. I just made the SSG from Trigs instructions. I did do a little work on the poppet ala Motorhead rounding it off a little on the drill press. Would be interesting to see how many shots I could get on a reg but I like being able to dial it up also maybe some day when I get a 30cal or 308 I'll get it regulated.
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Thanks Travis all the work was done by shorty on the valve and light valve spring. I just made the SSG from Trigs instructions. I did do a little work on the poppet ala Motorhead rounding it off a little on the drill press. Would be interesting to see how many shots I could get on a reg but I like being able to dial it up also maybe some day when I get a 30cal or 308 I'll get it regulated.
I thought you were regulated? Haha, makes that string look even better now :D. Nice work.
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Who needs a Regulator with a string like that. WOW
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Lol, That's the power of the DIY SSG mod......Just kidding, it's a combination of a lot of effort from many folks on this forum combined plus the tuner putting it all together. Nice tune...Enjoyed the video!
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Impressive work you've done here.
Thanks! It works quite well at extending the shot count and quieting the shot noise.