GTA

Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 07:39:22 AM

Title: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 07:39:22 AM
One Christmas, in the late eighties, an overly optimistic Santa Claus brought my son a Blue Streak he was too small to handle safely and enjoy shooting. It might have been shot 5 or 10 times on Christmas day. I quickly bought him a smaller lighter gun, a Crosman 760, I think, and put the Sheridan back in the box and stuck it on the top shelf of my closet. I had not thought about it again until I recently started reading "Vintage Air Gun Gate." When I took it down and looked at it, I knew somebody should be shooting and enjoying this good-looking old gal! It turned out my son, now in his thirties, did not even remember it, had no interest in it, and told me I was welcome to it.

Though I bought it in the late eighties, the serial number indicates it was manufactured in 1975. That surprised me but, maybe, that's a good thing.

(http://i.imgur.com/35IjSFF.jpg)

Though he insists not, I want to give my son whatever the gun is worth. Whether he was aware of it, or has any interest in it now, it is his gun. What would be a fair price?

Just behind the loading port, on the left, is a small plate screwed to the receiver. On the right side, slightly further to the rear, are two holes that are tapped. What are these? Are either or both for mounting the Weaver peep sight?

Considering its age, and how long it has been sitting, how would you go about putting it back in service?
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Habanero69er on April 23, 2016, 08:22:45 AM
Ernie, nice looking rifle. A fair price for something that pristine...$150-200, especially since you already paid for it once. The two holes on the right side of the receiver are for a Williams peep sight.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: ped on April 23, 2016, 08:30:51 AM
nice rifle but I think your dates are out as that's a cb9sv and they weren't made till 95
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 08:54:08 AM
nice rifle but I think your dates are out as that's a cb9sv and they weren't made till 95

Help me figure out what is going on, then. I could be mistaken about exactly when I bought it but, based on my son's age, it seems to me it was 1989. Whenever it was bought, the serial number on it is 116327. What do you think?
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 09:22:14 AM
ped has me going, now! If I am way off on when the gun was purchased, this quote from a post by TimmyMac1 in 2013 could explain the age/serial number discrepancy:

Quote
I see early transtionals that violate the serial number scheme and create confusion as to when it was made. Early Transitionals had a 6 digit number but they started the sequences over or maybe used old tubes they had and a lot of people come up with a 70's dating for a 90's vintage guns they did during the early and possibly some of the late transitionals. I believe this was due to using the tubes in stock that were from the early production Rockers when they produced the trasitionals. They often added a Letter to the begginning or the end to designate this variant but the Transitionals can be deceiving because of the 6 digit serial numbers taken at face value. Now you know way too much.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Habanero69er on April 23, 2016, 10:01:52 AM
That makes sense. I have a 342 that has a serial number that says it's manufactured many years prior to Benjamin moving to Racine, yet it's stamped Racine, WI.   ???
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 10:26:48 AM
That makes sense. I have a 342 that has a serial number that says it's manufactured many years prior to Benjamin moving to Racine, yet it's stamped Racine, WI.   ???

This gun is stamped Racine. The address printed on the box is Racine. Does any of that tell me anything?

The first thing that convinced me I was wrong about the date purchased, after "ped" called my attention to it and I started looking further, was the fact that it is drilled and tapped for the Weaver peep sight. It also has the Do Not Oil stamped on the tube. The serial number appears to be aberrant for whatever reason. 

 
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: anuthabubba on April 23, 2016, 03:32:22 PM
With that bolt housing, rear plug, safety and trigger guard, it's gotta be an early to mid '90s model.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 05:18:50 PM
With that bolt housing, rear plug, safety and trigger guard, it's gotta be an early to mid '90s model.
Thanks, Yrok! Though, I obviously fell hard for what I wanted to believe when I looked up the serial number, it is what it is. And, whatever year it is, it is in as-new condition and a new toy for me.

After the error of my memory and the facts of life came to light, I had a thought that chilled me to the bone. I am in the mode of getting rid of guns, not getting new ones. Thank God, literally, I did not sell it to someone representing it to be a '75, based on the screwy serial number. That would have been truly embarrassing!
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Rob112o on April 23, 2016, 06:47:53 PM
Is she holding air and shooting? Was she left with a pump of air in her before you put her away? Head to the local sports store or Walmart and get yourself some Pellgunoil. If they don't have any go to an auto shop and get non-detergent 30w oil. Couple drops on the pump cup/piston head, drop on the piston where the link from pump arm goes in, then a drop on the rivet on the forearm. Close the pump arm and a drop on the roll pin where the forearm connects to pump tube, the roll pin closer to the breech. Do some short pumps up and down to disperse the oil in the tube. Then pump up and fire a couple times. If all seals hold you should be ready to start shootings to your hearts delight!
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 23, 2016, 07:04:16 PM
That looks like a 1990 transitional gun to me.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 07:54:08 PM
Is she holding air and shooting? Was she left with a pump of air in her before you put her away? Head to the local sports store or Walmart and get yourself some Pellgunoil. If they don't have any go to an auto shop and get non-detergent 30w oil. Couple drops on the pump cup/piston head, drop on the piston where the link from pump arm goes in, then a drop on the rivet on the forearm. Close the pump arm and a drop on the roll pin where the forearm connects to pump tube, the roll pin closer to the breech. Do some short pumps up and down to disperse the oil in the tube. Then pump up and fire a couple times. If all seals hold you should be ready to start shootings to your hearts delight!

Lots of good info there, Rob!

I would not have known to pump it once before putting it away; so, if I did, it was an accident. Since re-discovering it, I have only pumped it once. There was a lot of resistance and a good puff when I dry fired it. I have some Pellgun Oil, non-detergent 20 weight, non-detergent 30 weight, and Secret Sauce on hand. I was thinking of using the Secret Sauce, would one of the others be better? Whatever I use, I will hit all the points you mention.

I am anxious to get the old gun up and running, and see what it will do.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 07:59:54 PM
That looks like a 1990 transitional gun to me.

Much to my surprise, that turns out to be a possibility. "ped" puts it even later than that. I was clearly mistaken about when I bought it for my son. I am interested to learn more.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Rob112o on April 23, 2016, 08:08:37 PM
If you got SS use that. Didn't think you had that so I just suggested something you could pick up today.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Wayne52 on April 23, 2016, 08:12:15 PM
Very cool 8) here's a pic of my 77

(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns/bluestreak.jpg~original)
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 08:14:54 PM
If you got SS use that. Didn't think you had that so I just suggested something you could pick up today.

Will do. Thanks!
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 08:16:33 PM
Very cool 8) here's a pic of my 77

(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns/bluestreak.jpg)

That one IS a beauty!
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Wayne52 on April 23, 2016, 08:23:06 PM
Thanks Ernie! I bought it brand new, scope and all, it's been my go to airgun since until I got the airgun bug again last fall, I mean I'm hooked again worse than ever.  I've got to try to stop buying, this morning I ordered a Crosman 2300T which is highly modifiable, I thought I'll just buy one that I can keep adding too every now and then.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 08:29:35 PM
...I'm hooked again worse than ever.  I've got to try to stop buying...

Not to worry, you only ever need just one more. If push really comes to shove, there is always the mid-life crisis fall-back - I am an old guy and have had many.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on April 23, 2016, 09:06:39 PM
This one is mine (one of them).
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q733/barnydaddy/24e6ec393ff928c1ff43d3b459d1a0c8_zpstliu6goj.jpg)
Looks like yours (except for the scope).
As stated above the holes on the right side of the receiver are for the Williams Peep.
The plate on the left is removed when you want to remove the bolt for proper cleaning of the barrel.
Under the plate is a allen screw that serves to cock the hammer when you operate the bolt.
Remove that screw and you can remove the bolt.
Simple.

Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 23, 2016, 09:10:47 PM
This is one mine.
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q733/barnydaddy/24e6ec393ff928c1ff43d3b459d1a0c8_zpstliu6goj.jpg)
Looks like yours (except for the scope).
As stated above the holes on the right side of the receiver are for the Williams Peep.
The plate on the left is removed when you want to remove the bolt for proper cleaning of the barrel.
Under the plate is a allen screw that serves to cock the hammer when you operate the bolt.
Remove that screw and you can remove the bolt.
Simple.

Thank you, Frank! More good info.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 23, 2016, 09:54:28 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Racine made c9's only made during the transitional years ?
Either way 1990 is the earliest year for your gun and since late 80's is what you remember, that's likely it.

Here's a thought, if it's basically nib do you have the original paperwork ?
If so there may be a print date on the manual and maybe even a date on a warranty card.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 23, 2016, 10:26:39 PM
What we need to find out is when crosman went to the cast fire control group.
I would think that the Steel guards/triggers would've been transitional guns seeing as the 1400...ect had been using cast fire control groups for a long time, and wouldn't it be easier for them to use the same cast fcg's to save cost and solidify them as crosman guns ?

We also need to find out how long crosman utilized the Racine factory as it would stand to reason that it was why they used Steel trigger groups.

( what exactly are the full markings on your gun ? )

We're the transitional guns made under crosman ownership or were they a benjamin decision ?
( I know very little about the 90's guns as my streak is a '79 and I have had little interest in the crosman ones, but now I'm getting really interested )
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Rob112o on April 23, 2016, 10:59:17 PM
To throw a bigger curveball into the mix. My 95 397P has the steel trigger, but totally different then the Dan, Benji, and 39x:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/Rob112o/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8ocawj1c.jpeg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/Rob112o/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8ocawj1c.jpeg.html)
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/Rob112o/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbt8ivx8z.jpeg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/Rob112o/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbt8ivx8z.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 23, 2016, 11:13:41 PM
To throw a bigger curveball into the mix. My 95 397P has the steel trigger, but totally different then the Dan, Benji, and 39x:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/Rob112o/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8ocawj1c.jpeg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/Rob112o/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8ocawj1c.jpeg.html)
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/Rob112o/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbt8ivx8z.jpeg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/Rob112o/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbt8ivx8z.jpeg.html)
so is it a Bloomfield or Racine gun ?
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Rob112o on April 23, 2016, 11:25:50 PM
Bloomfield.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 24, 2016, 12:25:32 AM
Bloomfield.
Just another piece to the puzzle.
BTW that mechanism started with the transitional guns, I just don't know why it took so long for them to realize that their existing ( it looks like the exact same ones to me ) cast assembly was more cost effective.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: anuthabubba on April 24, 2016, 01:35:06 AM
This is one mine.
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q733/barnydaddy/24e6ec393ff928c1ff43d3b459d1a0c8_zpstliu6goj.jpg)
Looks like yours (except for the scope).

And the trigger guard/safety. This one is the cast TG that came along sometime after '93, 'to ~97.

As stated above the holes on the right side of the receiver are for the Williams Peep.
The plate on the left is removed when you want to remove the bolt for proper cleaning of the barrel.
Under the plate is a allen screw that serves to cock the hammer when you operate the bolt.
Remove that screw and you can remove the bolt.
Simple.

Thank you, Frank! More good info.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 24, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
( what exactly are the full markings on your gun ? )

On the right side of receiver:

- SERIDAN PRODUCTS -
RACINE WI -- 53403 -- U.S.A.


On the left side (from muzzle to receiver):

READ MANUAL BEFORE USING
AVAILABLE FREE FROM MFG.

116327

- C9 SERIES - 5.0MM - (.20 CAL.)
PELLETS ONLY


On the bottom of the piston tube:

AIR HOLE   DO NOT OIL
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bbv13 on April 24, 2016, 02:54:09 PM
From what I hear and have read Benjamin really had it together at the Racine factory and produced what's considered by many to be the best pump air rifles ever made. It's also harder to find Sheridan/Benjamin Racine made guns. That's a nice transitional Sheridan and you should hold onto it. Invite your son over to shoot some he may change his mind and want it someday?

Bryan
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 24, 2016, 03:18:14 PM
Thanks, Bryan!

I will hang on to this one, but am tempted to pick up a late sixties or early seventies Blue Streak to keep it company. If I did that, I would probably send the older gun out to Mac1 for some TLC and the steroid treatment.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 24, 2016, 04:36:15 PM
From what I hear and have read Benjamin really had it together at the Racine factory and produced what's considered by many to be the best pump air rifles ever made. It's also harder to find Sheridan or Benjamin Racine made guns. That's a nice transitional Sheridan and you should hold onto it. Invite your son over to shoot some he may change his mind and want it someday?

Bryan
Racine Benjamin's are a little harder to find, but not so much Sheridan's because they were always made in Racine wis ( if it wasn't made in Racine, then it's just a .20cal crosman )

Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Methuselah on April 24, 2016, 05:33:18 PM
Funny question.  I keep seeing posts on them claiming used at 80 to $100, and shooting accurately at that.  Then mostly showing up for sale for $160 (in rough condition) to $350.  Presumably most are spray painted, split stocks reglued, etc.  I'd give my left nut for a half decent condition Dan anywhere near 100, but expect to die long before that happens  ;)

I'd say take no less than $500 for it and expect to see it for auction the next day at $1000 captioned belonged to Daniel Boone, or some such...

My $.02, shoot it - if you have $10,000 to spend on just the finder's fee you probably won't find a better one.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bbv13 on April 24, 2016, 05:55:23 PM
From what I hear and have read Benjamin really had it together at the Racine factory and produced what's considered by many to be the best pump air rifles ever made. It's also harder to find Sheridan or Benjamin Racine made guns. That's a nice transitional Sheridan and you should hold onto it. Invite your son over to shoot some he may change his mind and want it someday?

Bryan
Racine Benjamin's are a little harder to find, but not so much Sheridan's because they were always made in Racine wis ( if it wasn't made in Racine, then it's just a .20cal crosman )

Your right, the transitional part and being made before Crosman screwed them up is what makes it harder to find. It was built in the time that the highly sought after Racine 392 were made. I have a Racine 397 and it's better. I don't know how to tell you but you know it when you pick it up and shoot it.

Bryan
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bbv13 on April 24, 2016, 06:16:17 PM
Thanks, Bryan!

I will hang on to this one, but am tempted to pick up a late sixties or early seventies Blue Streak to keep it company. If I did that, I would probably send the older gun out to Mac1 for some TLC and the steroid treatment.

You will not regret that!

Bryan
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: 20cal on April 24, 2016, 06:34:16 PM
The last of the Sheridan designed rifles was the C-Series, which was replaced by the C9-Series in 1991. The C9 is a Benjamin design. The early ones, like yours, are of better quality than the later ones and are more popular with collectors. The C9 began with a new range of serial numbers beginning around 10xxxx judging from recent data. Serial numbers of C9-Series made by Crosman were of a different format. The box you have pictured is the same box which was used with the last of the C-Series rifles. Later C9 boxes are different. The butt plate on your rifle will have the SHERIDAN logo. Later rifles made by Crosman do not. Also, later models with the removable cartridge valve and Crosman style trigger assembly are designated C9A-Series.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
The last of the Sheridan designed rifles was the C-Series, which was replaced by the C9-Series in 1991. The C9 is a Benjamin design. The early ones, like yours, are of better quality than the later ones and are more popular with collectors. The C9 began with a new range of serial numbers beginning around 10xxxx judging from recent data. Serial numbers of C9-Series made by Crosman were of a different format. The box you have pictured is the same box which was used with the last of the C-Series rifles. Later C9 boxes are different. The butt plate on your rifle will have the SHERIDAN logo. Later rifles made by Crosman do not. Also, later models with the soldered in valve and Crosman style trigger assembly are designated C9A-Series.

Thank you 20cal! I appreciate every bit of additional info I am given.

Just to be clear, C9 Series have the soldered in valve like the C9A Series, right?
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: 20cal on April 24, 2016, 08:28:28 PM
You're welcome Ernie.

Oops; correction, the later C9A-Series have the removable cartridge valve. The C9 will have the soldered in valve like the previous C-Series.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 24, 2016, 08:43:23 PM
Oops; correction, the later C9A-Series have the removable cartridge valve. The C9 will have the soldered in valve like the previous C-Series.

Thanks, again! I am getting an education on old Sheridans. It was disappointing when I learned I did not have what I thought I had, but it has been interesting, anyway. And, since the price of a nice C Series Blue Streak is not prohibitive, what I thought I had is not out of reach.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bantam5s on April 25, 2016, 02:23:29 AM
See I wasn't really sure weather or not any Racine guns were made under crosman ownership, but I guess they weren't.
I knew what the transitional guns look like, but not exactly what it meant.

Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: bbv13 on April 25, 2016, 11:23:08 AM
After Crosman bought Benjamin they continued manufacturing at the Racine plant until they moved to Bloomfield. They used up all the Benjamin parts while making changes. There's likely guns out there that have Racine on them that were put together in Bloomfield? In my opinion all of the transitional guns without the safety in front of the trigger are more desirable than the Crosman designs. That being said I have a walnut stock 1999 Crosman/ Benjamin 392 that's a tack driver.

Bryan
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: north country gal on April 25, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Little late on this one, but agree with the others. That's definitely not a 70s gun and at the very least a mid 80s gun because that's when they started to drill and tap for peep sights. Don't remember seeing a white line spacer on 80s guns, though, so also agree probably getting into the last of the Racine made guns in the early 90s. As a Sheridan fan, the important thing is that it is still a Racine made gun and not the later Crosman version. Also agree that $150 to $200 is a very reasonable price, all the more so for the condition, box and all. Should be a great shooter with JSB Exacts. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: kudzu on April 25, 2016, 04:22:34 PM
Little late on this one, but agree with the others. That's definitely not a 70s gun and at the very least a mid 80s gun because that's when they started to drill and tap for peep sights. Don't remember seeing a white line spacer on 80s guns, though, so also agree probably getting into the last of the Racine made guns in the early 90s. As a Sheridan fan, the important thing is that it is still a Racine made gun and not the later Crosman version. Also agree that $150 to $200 is a very reasonable price, all the more so for the condition, box and all. Should be a great shooter with JSB Exacts. Enjoy.

Hello, Joanie! Based on what I thought my son's age was when I bought the Blue Streak, I believed it had been purchased for Christmas '88 or '89. Knowing nothing about these rifles, when the serial number indicated it was a '75, I did not know any better. As soon as I posted the picture, knowledgeable people pointed out why that could not be so. Besides the many posts you see in this thread, I have had considerable discussion by PM with other knowledgeable and helpful members and learned a lot. I have come to believe 1991 is the earliest possible date of manufacture, and it could be even later than that. Whatever it's birth date, I have some JSB Exacts and will enjoy shooting it!
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: ped on April 25, 2016, 05:53:14 PM
that's the way to go enjoy shooting her
on the plus side it hasn't the cartridge valve slight downside it's not a c series
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Methuselah on April 25, 2016, 07:27:41 PM
Whatever it's birth date, I have some JSB Exacts and will enjoy shooting it!

That's what I was hopin to hear  ;) ;D ;)

Have fun!!!

(and post some pics of the groups)
Title: Re: Blue Streak - She's 41 and almost a virgin!
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on April 26, 2016, 01:43:20 PM
Hello, Joanie! Based on what I thought my son's age was when I bought the Blue Streak, I believed it had been purchased for Christmas '88 or '89. Knowing nothing about these rifles, when the serial number indicated it was a '75, I did not know any better. As soon as I posted the picture, knowledgeable people pointed out why that could not be so. Besides the many posts you see in this thread, I have had considerable discussion by PM with other knowledgeable and helpful members and learned a lot. I have come to believe 1991 is the earliest possible date of manufacture, and it could be even later than that. Whatever it's birth date, I have some JSB Exacts and will enjoy shooting it!
My dad has a Blue Streak that appears to be the same as yours, he says he bought it in the late 50's. He apparently had another that he sold or bartered and then later bought the one he has now. It's funny what our memories keep and also what gets altered and\or mixed up in them. I knew from looking at his that it is newer than he "honestly remembers" and I am not going to argue with him about it. I just told him I wanted it when he was making a list of who will get what when he is done with his guns. That day was a hard day for him as he said "it's easier to die than to give up my gun collection" and I want him to own and enjoy them for as long as he can too. Yours and his are great Rifles and will still bring a lot of pleasure shooting them. ;D