GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: north country gal on April 14, 2016, 09:54:38 PM
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Great post going on What does long range real mean for a 177 air rifles, so check it out if you haven't already.
In that post, I made a comment that the jump from 35 yards to 50 yards is, indeed, a big one as far as maintaining the same MOA between the two distances and to do so requires excellent shooting conditions. Not really the same topic as to what is considered long range for a 177, so thought I would start a separate post.
Today was, in a word, crummy, as far as shooting conditions. Wind was at my back and quartering, 15 to 20 mph with some even higher gusts. Most folks with any sense would take a pass on distance work with such a wind, but, hey, the sun was out and temps in the 60s and, well, shooting is shooting. Beats not shooting. :)
For my test, I used one of our most consistent shooters, our Blue Laminate HW77K in 177. It wears a Bushnell Trophy 4-12x AO. This rig has, on an excellent day with no wind, done sub half inch, 50 yard groups for me with H&N FTTs in the 4.52mm head size.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2zfnbrs.jpg)
Normally, I would play the wind on such a day, but I wanted to actually test the wind, so I made no attempt to wait for any calm. Pretty much load and shoot. Nor did I make any attempt to keep shots in the bullseye. All I wanted to test was group size in a strong wind.
35 yards
Shot five, five shot groups. The largest measured .85, but the smallest was an amazing .34", one raged hole. Probably a fluke, but the other three were all right about half inch. I was actually surprised to get such groups, given that I could see the bushes blowing in the wind around the target. Again, I made no effort to play the wind. Just load and shoot.
50 yards.
Actually shot seven groups, just to make sure I wasn't seeing things. The groups were that bad. My best group from this superb rifle was 1.2". Try as I might to break one inch, just couldn't get it done in that wind. Could get two in a row and, once, a nice three shot group, but with that wind, keeping five in a row to stay home was impossible. The rest of the groups were much worse, with two right at two inches. Remember, though, I was not playing the wind, just letting it do its damage.
Now, it may be that the way our range is situated makes the 50 yard station more exposed to the wind than the 35 yard station, but I don't think so, not with this wind. Our 50 yard station is no more exposed to this wind direction than our 35 yard station, but I would love to check it.
It's risky, of course, to draw conclusions from only one test, but based on today's results, the distance at which I can shoot half inch groups with my guns on my range, under strong winds from this direction is 35 yards. My little rule of thumb, then, is that 35 yards is a very air gun friendly shooting distance under just about any conditions. Feel free to use it, no charge. :)
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The information was interesting, Joanie, but the gun is drop dead gorgeous!!
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Joanie;
There is indeed more to those 15 additional yards than meets the eye.
Having shot hundreds, if not close to a thousand different airguns, my rule of thumb is that at 0.5 X the distance, the group size should be 0.4 what it was at full distance.
Of course you can use the rule to extrapolate, instead of interpolate, but IMHO, that is not as true as it would seem. So, for an average group size at 50 yards of around 1 3/4", at 35 yards the geometric progression would indicate to expect an average group size of around 7/8". Now, this is what is EXPECTED in perfectly calm conditions, level shooting, and all the favourable situation of a lab test. It is indicative of the rough weather that you and your gun were capable of exceeding by a wide margin the expectations.
But it also tells you that the distance has an impact that grows geometrically, not linearly. In other words, twice the distance does not mean twice as hard, it means 2½ times as hard (in perfect conditions). This geometrical proportion would say that for 50 yards it is 2X as hard than it is at 35 (1.95 times, but we will round it to 2X).
Why? well, the problem lies in that, for the most part, rifles do not shoot their pellets in a perfect circular motion. Pellets have "anomalies" in their flight, namely Precesion Nutation and Yaw, and that DECREASES substantially the ballistic coefficient because the pellet, as it oscillates in its travel, presents a much larger area. As the pellet slows down, it oscillates even more and decelerates faster again.
A "vicious circle" of sorts.
Now, some pellets are more susceptible to wind drift than others, yes the basic shape has a lot to do, but also how stable the gun shoots them has a very relevant bearing.
I would suggest you try the JSB's and the Sniper Medium pellets in your gun under windy conditions and see what happens.
Lastly, there is a lot to learn from the SHAPE of the groups. Are they still circular? Or are they straight lines left and right? Or are they diagonally elliptical? Or, none at all?
Every group shape tells us something.
Good shooting BTW!
Keep well and shoot straight!
Hector Medina
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Dang, the cumulative knowledge here can be just plain awesome. Great info you two, and free Ta boot. Got to love it. I feel somehow smarter after reading expert post like these. Kudos.
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Hector, I was going to say that, really I was. :) Seriously, your depth of knowledge is just plain awesome.
Didn't do enough shooting to reliably put a number on things, but your data makes a world of sense.
The FTTs have been this gun's favorite, since day one, all the way out to 50 yards, but, then, I never tried shooting it at 50 yards with this kind of wind, until, today. Trying other pellets in such a wind should be a very interesting experiment. Will sure give it a try.
The groups at 35 yards were quite circular, much as I get in calmer conditions. The groups at 50, though, tended to be more squarish, with two or, in one case, three to one side of the square. Pretty obvious the wind was kicking them all over the place.
Thomas, after shooting the ProSport so much this week, was thinking the same thing about how beautiful the Blue 177 is, though in a different way.
And thanks, Kurt. Not so sure about that expert thing, but thanks. :)
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I shot all .177 cal out to 50 yards. They werent high end springers like yours either....
I dont worry about the conditions because I cant change the condition, but what I can change is my scope calibrations and my shooting style by practicing more and more. Wind will push the pellet a little more though Ive seen Jerry take 2" skeet @ 100 yards with his TX200 and so did I. Never have I shot the gun before that time. I knew springers and could gauge the wind some what.
Conditions arent always the same so I have to just go with guts and experience and take the shot.
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First time I had to dope for wind at a FT Shoot was this past Sunday.
During sight in once I was shooting past 30-35 yards my pellets were hitting 2 inches or so to the right. I could see them curve like a curve ball. I could not figure out what was going on and thought I had 'scope cant' but was thinking I had eliminated that so whats the big deal here? It wasn't until the shooter beside me said "Man, that wind past 30 yards is killer" did I realize what the issue was LOL! Then I started using my side Mil-dots and was back in the game 8). He was shooting his TX200 and I was shooting the BAM-50. JSB 8.44 grain for him and JSB 10.34 grain for me. Hector brings up something interesting that I had not really thought about scientifically, but basically both our AG shoot in 800 fps range but our pellets were both pushed a few inches right. His a tad more, but I was intrigued that it was so similar and at the time thought "I wonder why that is?" Hector has given me more to think about! Lastly, it wasn't a heavy wind either.
On one of the last lanes it wasn't windy were we sat to shoot, but that breeze was back at 51 yards where the target was and that made for interesting shooting.
BZ
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I shoot every weekend, and during the week when I feel I need a vacation. The wind can be a killer even at 25 yards, much less 50 or 60 yards. If my spread is left & right I know I am doing my part and just have to learn to deal with the wind that day. :) I shoot from inside a shed and it faces the east and most of the wind is coming from the north or south. It is cool to watch the pellet curve into the kill zone of a knock down target in 30 mph wind, and frustrating to watch the pellet miss. LOL
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Now, you tell me!
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I feel a little better now after reading these... I did some pellet testing at 50 yards with my .177 ProSport yesterday with a variable wind and really couldn't determine a winner.... I guess I need to back up to 35 yards, determine a favorite, then work up from there (unless it's a very calm day).
Great info you guys!
Ted
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Good comments, folks.
Anyway you cut it, wind at 50 yards is a major player in the accuracy game. Doesn't have to be a strong wind, either. Had a day, a couple weeks, ago, when the wind was on the light side, under 10 mph, but it was one of those days with a lot of updrafts, the kind of day when the wind blows leaves and dirt into little swirls or mini twisters. Could even feel the updrafts while shooting the bench. Totally impossible to shoot a decent 50 yard group, no matter how I tried to play the wind.
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Hey Jay I seem to remember some other guy using a 16 FPE XS46U .22 cal breaking those 2" clay's at 100 yards also. ;D
Practice Practice Practice...
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Same wind conditions, today, so I repeated the test, only this time with our new ProSport. Pretty much the same results, though the Prosport couldn't quite keep with the Blue HW97K in accuracy at 35 yards. Still, enough 5/8th to 3/4" groups to make shooting in that wind worthwhile. Also tried just about every pellet we have, but, once again, Crosman Premiers beat everything else. Also, 35 yards is plenty long enough of distance to easily see differences in pellet preference.
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Joani,
Is your HW97k stock? What is your pellet weight and velocity? Those are outstanding groups - I am impressed!
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I am so happy to see this post. So many nubes get duped that 1" at 100 Yds typical out of an airgun. That is NOT typical. Achievable, yes, Typical, NO!
I feel bad when a guy is beating his head, because he is "only" getting a 2" group with significant wind conditions.
Glad to see the sanity!
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+1 Joe. With a right out of the box gun, and less than a tin downrange ta boot. :o
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I am so happy to see this post. So many nubes get duped that 1" at 100 Yds typical out of an airgun. That is NOT typical. Achievable, yes, Typical, NO!
I feel bad when a guy is beating his head, because he is "only" getting a 2" group with significant wind conditions.
Glad to see the sanity!
This is a very good observation. Too often keyboard shooters talk of unbelievable groups with air rifles at 50 yards. As Hector Medina points out, there is a "vicious circle" of factors that militate against consistent accuracy as distance increases. It applies to PCP's and even more to springers.
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Hector, I was going to say that, really I was. :) Seriously, your depth of knowledge is just plain awesome.
Didn't do enough shooting to reliably put a number on things, but your data makes a world of sense.
The FTTs have been this gun's favorite, since day one, all the way out to 50 yards, but, then, I never tried shooting it at 50 yards with this kind of wind, until, today. Trying other pellets in such a wind should be a very interesting experiment. Will sure give it a try.
The groups at 35 yards were quite circular, much as I get in calmer conditions. The groups at 50, though, tended to be more squarish, with two or, in one case, three to one side of the square. Pretty obvious the wind was kicking them all over the place.
Thomas, after shooting the ProSport so much this week, was thinking the same thing about how beautiful the Blue 177 is, though in a different way.
And thanks, Kurt. Not so sure about that expert thing, but thanks. :)
Big difference when you were shooting with the wind at your back then a crosswind but you know that. the crosswinds are real hard
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Hey Jay I seem to remember some other guy using a 16 FPE XS46U .22 cal breaking those 2" clay's at 100 yards also. ;D
Practice Practice Practice...
Practice is only good with an accurate rifle. you can practice 1000 hours with an inaccurate gun and totally waste your time. I remember I was at my friends ranch he had a steel buffalo set at 1000 yds and had a beautiful Sharps 45/70 and the women were there while we took a while to try to figure out the drop and adjust the iron sights. after 20 shots we were ringing it like a doorbell and the women took shots hitting the steel and just like a woman said that was easy and you guys made a big deal out of it lol. when you have an accurate gun dialed in almost anyone can make hits with little practice
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I am so happy to see this post. So many nubes get duped that 1" at 100 Yds typical out of an airgun. That is NOT typical. Achievable, yes, Typical, NO!
I feel bad when a guy is beating his head, because he is "only" getting a 2" group with significant wind conditions.
Glad to see the sanity!
This is a very good observation. Too often keyboard shooters talk of unbelievable groups with air rifles at 50 yards. As Hector Medina points out, there is a "vicious circle" of factors that militate against consistent accuracy as distance increases. It applies to PCP's and even more to springers.
This is a good point. The measure of "consistency" for me, is being able to put several shots under a dime at 50 yards. "Accuracy" is being able to pick up your gun and hit various sized targets at varying distances in varying conditions with a certain measure of success. Everything has to be right but I'm pretty confident I can 5 shots in a row under a dime at 50 yards with my best gun after sighting in. This is consistency though and is more a measure of the guns abilities than my own.
That being said, you'd think that with the same gun in the same conditions, I'd be around an inch at 100 yards. Not so, I've never once shot a 1" or less groups at 100 yards. Granted, I've practiced 100 much less than I have 50, but still, if I'm under 2" at 100 yards I'm pretty pleased with that.
Trying to convince myself that I should be able to put up 1" groups at 100 yards only leads to frustration and detracts from the fun. I've taken more to shooting at cans and larger spinners out at distances past 75 yards.
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Joani,
Is your HW97k stock? What is your pellet weight and velocity? Those are outstanding groups - I am impressed!
Yes, stock all the way, but I will say that even as HWs go, this Blue Laminate was especially good right out of the box with H&N FTTs, 8.64s. Definitely outshoots our new ProSport, but that one is still a work in progress. I'll get it to come around. The Blue HW97K, though, I regard as one of those luck of the draw kind of guns we all get, once in awhile. Did give it another try, after I shot the Prosport, yesterday and even with the wind, I did manage to print a couple of sub one inch groups 50, but this time, I definitely played the wind. Just needed to know I could still do it. :)
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Big difference when you were shooting with the wind at your back then a crosswind but you know that. the crosswinds are real hard
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Oh, definitely. Our range is setup so that I have to shoot at a very slight downhill angle.Tail winds end to push the pellet, low. All told, though, I can usually do better with a tail wind than a head wind.
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Thanks. I have been eyeing one of those for some time, although you get the credit, not the gun.
I have good days and bad days shooting my springers. Today was not so good.
Do you mind sharing your shooting technique? Rest (sand bag? open palm?)? Any special shoulder/cheek weld technique to stay consistent? Trigger pull?
Thanks!
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Thanks.
Not sure how much help it would be, since I tend to work with each gun as an individual and work up a hold that it likes the best and, of course, what works for me may be of little use to someone else. This custom approach for each gun takes a lot of patience, but have not had much luck with the one hold/one rest fits all approach, even with springers of the same brand.
As for the Blue HW97K, this one I can rest directly on the bag out on the forearm. Some guns I can't, but this one seems quite happy with it. No contact with the gun with a second bag, though. Instead, the second bag supports my offhand which, in turn, supports the gun under the toe of the stock (bottom corner). The buttstock just touches my shoulder at that point, only, me making sure I am not pushing my shoulder into the gun. That little bit of contact, though, does a lot to steady those crosshairs. As for my trigger hand, I cradle the gun under the trigger guard very lightly. I do not wrap it around the pistol grip. Very tip of my finger on the trigger, very careful to do it the same way every time.
Before each shot, regardless of what hold or what springer, I do slide the gun back and forward a bit to make sure the gun and crosshairs will be moving directly in line with the target when it recoils. I feel this is very important for a springer. The gun must recoil in the same way and direction for every shot.
The position of those crosshairs after the shot tells me a lot. I know I've made a good shot when I can see the crosshairs return to the same spot on the target after the gun recoils. If the gun bounces away from that original POA after the shot is over, I know I didn't get the gun rested just right or that I blew the follow through. Can use this very effectively to call my shots.
Of course, this all sounds pretty involved, but it's gets to be automatic with practice. Other guns, though, I have to use a different rest.
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Hiya Gal and Guys!
Thank you all for your kind words. One never stops learning in this airgunning thing, always something more to learn every day.
Also thanks for what JB very correctly terms "sanity". In the US we tend to think of airguns as just a slightly different version of a shooting iron, it's natural, we have access to a lot of very interesting things that in some countries would be deemed quite "revolutionary".
And we also tend to forget how very accurate airguns can be when judged in relation to powder burners under a properly arranged scale factor.
If you are familiar with High Power rifles, and you look up the Time of Flight that bullets shot from "normal" cartridges have, you can see that the scale factor is about 10 to 1, if you see the Magnums, then you are up to about 13-15 to 1, if you go to the SuperDuperMagnums (0.338" LAPUA, or 0.416" Barrett, or the likes) you will see that sometimes you can reach scale factors of 20 to 1 (specially with some of the SLAP rounds). So, bearing those factors in mind, shooting an airgun at 50 yards is just as hard as shooting a HP rifle at 500, and the difference between 35 and 50 yards is also about the difference between 350 and 500 yds in the use of a HP.
BPCR are a little bit different, but normal loads put the scale factor at around 8.
Now, one thing that gets lost in this scale thing is that extreme ranges do have a way of "smoothing out" extremely local conditions (like the "leaf devils" Joanie talks about). Shooting under a 30 mph wind with an airgun is like shooting in a hurricane with a PB.
Hitting a 2" skeets at 100 yards is about the same as hitting a man-sized torso (20") at 1,000 yds with a 0.308" Win (almost the same as the 7.62X51 NATO). And you can ask any professional sniper how hard that is.
Now, one thing I do need to add is that all the reasons and comments posted here is why some of us like Field Target. You shoot at a variety of UNKNOWN distances, at targets that not all have the same size "kill zone", under conditions that change shot to shot and, usually, the range itself swings from one direction to another, so that there is no way you can put in some "basic windage" into your sight-in and just hold off a little more or less for varying strengths of the wind. In some FT ranges, the courses are setup like a "fan", you start with the wind from 10 O'clock and you end up with the wind coming from 5 O'clock.
So, each shot has to be estimated and taken, then misses corrected for the second shot; AND, in the International version of the game, you get one shot per target. In the US we play it with two shots per target, so SOME correction for the second shot is possible but, interestingly enough, scores do not seem to reflect this. Peculiarities of the human mind.
If you like this type of challenge, do try FT sometime.
Lastly, as to the shapes of the group:
Squarish groups tell us that there is a VERTICAL component to the HORIZONTAL drift; and it is normal for most pellets. Some more, some less, but pretty normal. What is completely ABNORMAL, is that the vertical component relates to the horizontal one in an INVERSE way than it does with bullets from firearms. In the long range rifle game, most people know the rule "10 to 4" meaning that with a wind from the left, bullets impact at 4 O'clock, not at 3, and with winds from the right bullets impact at 10 O'clock, not at 9 (at least for right handed twists).
In the WAISTED pellet world, it goes the other way around, wind from the left will take the pellet up, while wind from the right will take it down, so the "normal" rule in the pellet world is "8 to 2".
Of course updrafts and downdrafts can also have an effect, and head on/tail winds also have an effect.
Learning what YOUR gun with YOUR pellets will do is part of the fun of pursuing this insane hobby of ours.
;)
Have fun, keep well and shoot CURVES (only in the wind!)
Hector Medina
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Hector, bless you for sharing. Makes me feel good to be able to shoot nice groups at 50 yards at all. :) Not to worry, though, I get such a thrill when I do, that I am hooked for good. You know, when I got back into air guns, big time, a few years, back, I had it in mind to compare air rifle at 50 yards to rimfire at 50 yards, all with the hope that I could back up my rimfire shooting at 50 with some AG shooting. Turns out that the rimfire shooting is now the backup. Much more interesting game with the AG shooting.
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My pleasure, Joanie;
As a footnote:
When I tried to reach a scale factor between RF's and Airguns I ran into a serious problem: You need TOP NOTCH RF's to even approach the level of accuracy that current airguns routinely give us from the mid-price point upwards.
And when dealing with RF's you run into another problem: Ammo. TOP NOTCH ammo does not guarantee even average performance.
Just as in airguns, some ammo will do well in some guns, and terribly in another. Rim gauges, concentricity indicators, accurate balances, metal uniformity probes, and some even more esoteric things.
And finding the right ammo down to the lot number costs a LOT more than doing that with airgun pellets.
In the end, when talking about averages, the scale factor I ended up with was about 2:1
But that factor can be swayed substantially on the PCP's with a little quality and engineering on the airgun side to be almost even.
On the spring gun side, a lot more is still upon the shooter's shoulders, and that is why I guess we are all in love with our "sproingers".
Keep well and shoot straight!
Hector
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Long range is subjective. Some folks think 25 yards is "long range" for an airgun. Your thread on shooting the 953 at 50 yards is a good one, too. "Perfect conditions" are not easy to come by, but when they DO come together it's fun to see what can be done. A sub-inch group at 50 meters with a Baikal IZH 46M is probably my best long range shooting with a pellet gun to date. Even with a LOT of "kentucky windage" the group was well below my aim point, but it was there. Sure wish I'd gotten a picture of it, but didn't. The velocity was so low by the time the pellets got there that one of them was stuck in the cardboard backing.
Two years ago at the nationals in Guarne I was shooting a Gamo CFX with a Leapers 3-12X44 SWAT scope on it. Conditions were "less than ideal", to say the least. They'd set wind flags out at different distances, but the bullet stop baffles at different ranges along with the semi-enclosed range made for some very crazy wind conditions. The flags would be blowing left to right at one range and right to left further out. Still managed to pick up third place in the springer division after the mainspring broke on my rifle and ended up finishing up the round with the same scope on an old 10 meter spring gun I had along. All I know for sure is that any shot I made out past 20 meters was pure luck that day.
Doping the wind is something that takes time and effort to learn well. One can read all the forums one wants and learn to do the math for wind drift at different wind speeds and pellet profiles, but until one's put in the time at longer ranges one will not really know how to handle windy conditions.
Thanks for posting your experiences with us. And to Hector and all the others on the forum that give us great insight and information. This is a great place to hang one's @.
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Before each shot, regardless of what hold or what springer, I do slide the gun back and forward a bit to make sure the gun and crosshairs will be moving directly in line with the target when it recoils. I feel this is very important for a springer. The gun must recoil in the same way and direction for every shot.
The position of those crosshairs after the shot tells me a lot. I know I've made a good shot when I can see the crosshairs return to the same spot on the target after the gun recoils. If the gun bounces away from that original POA after the shot is over, I know I didn't get the gun rested just right or that I blew the follow through. Can use this very effectively to call my shots.
Of course, this all sounds pretty involved, but it's gets to be automatic with practice. Other guns, though, I have to use a different rest.
I have a gamo (whisper fusion, I think), my only springer and it kicks back pretty hard. I tried to shoot well with that thing for a long time. Tuned it, put in a CDT trigger (which is nice), tried every pellet I could find, tried every hold I read about... All made some improvements, but i still could never get good groups on a consistent basis. Like a 1" group at 10 yards about 50% of the time was the best I could get. ::)
All the other times had a couple/few fliers in a 10 shot group. It's just sitting on the shelf now...I just shoot my avanti 753 and my disco lately. I'm wondering if it's just me or the gun. Someday I'd like to try another one with a bit less power and a bit higher quality perhaps and see if I can do better. I really liked the feel of getting off a good shot with the kinda hold you have to do...but it was just so painfully inconsistent I had to move on. Digging my avanti and disco, though :D
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My experience with the affordable gas rams at that power level was limited to a first generation Benjamin Nitro XL. The ONLY way I could tame that beast and get any consistency with it was to use HEAVY 177 pellets - 10.5s as a minimum - and lock myself into an almost death grip as far as hold. With a light artillery hold, the gun would practically fly out of my hands. Really a prime example of one hold does not fit all when it comes to springer guns. Also, the gun ate the cheap Counterpoint scope that came with it in 50 shots. Sold it with no regrets because I simply didn't need that kind of power for target work and that's the only shooting I do.
Have zero experience with Gamo, but if it's accuracy you want and ease of shooting, you might explore a way to drop the power level. Not sure what the options are in a Gamo, but if you can trim the power level, down, you might get a more accurate shooter and a sweeter one in the bargain. Best of luck.
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My experience with the affordable gas rams at that power level was limited to a first generation Benjamin Nitro XL. The ONLY way I could tame that beast and get any consistency with it was to use HEAVY 177 pellets - 10.5s as a minimum - and lock myself into an almost death grip as far as hold. With a light artillery hold, the gun would practically fly out of my hands. Really a prime example of one hold does not fit all when it comes to springer guns. Also, the gun ate the cheap Counterpoint scope that came with it in 50 shots. Sold it with no regrets because I simply didn't need that kind of power for target work and that's the only shooting I do.
Have zero experience with Gamo, but if it's accuracy you want and ease of shooting, you might explore a way to drop the power level. Not sure what the options are in a Gamo, but if you can trim the power level, down, you might get a more accurate shooter and a sweeter one in the bargain. Best of luck.
Thanks. I did look into it, but no lower power gas rams I could find. Perhaps I'll keep it for home defense...I could club an attacker with it! LOL
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This post has been really enjoyable and I love the depth of understanding that many contributors bring to the discussions. I'd like to ask if the "banana barrel" really has any effect on the pellet's flight.
Some say that a bent barrel is merely a correctional issue and that the pellet flies true at the same direction it leaves the barrel. The follow-up thought is that there is no real problem with having a bent barrel.
I wonder if a bent barrel, plus the spin of the pellet and the sum of all the various forces acting on our bits of flying lead add up to a biased, or somehow deviated flight path, compared to the same pellet shot from the same gun with a straight barrel.
I'm breaking in a nice HW35E and the rear sight has to be cranked almost all the way off the the left to hit the target. Should I attempt to straighten the barrel, using a jig that can surely be found in the GTA library, or should I just enjoy the shooting?
Thanks as always for sharing your ideas on this!
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Will, I have no experience bending barrels, but I'm sure there are folks, here, that do. I'd vote for leaving as is if the gun is shooting to point of aim at the distances you like to shoot. Could be more of an issue if you try to shoot it at longer distances, though.
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This post has been really enjoyable and I love the depth of understanding that many contributors bring to the discussions. I'd like to ask if the "banana barrel" really has any effect on the pellet's flight.
Some say that a bent barrel is merely a correctional issue and that the pellet flies true at the same direction it leaves the barrel. The follow-up thought is that there is no real problem with having a bent barrel.
I wonder if a bent barrel, plus the spin of the pellet and the sum of all the various forces acting on our bits of flying lead add up to a biased, or somehow deviated flight path, compared to the same pellet shot from the same gun with a straight barrel.
I'm breaking in a nice HW35E and the rear sight has to be cranked almost all the way off the the left to hit the target. Should I attempt to straighten the barrel, using a jig that can surely be found in the GTA library, or should I just enjoy the shooting?
Thanks as always for sharing your ideas on this!
Skillet;
FWB demonstrated quite a few years ago that the ONLY section that matters is the last couple of inches of an airgun barrel:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/2129/oJQmc2.jpg)
Of course you need to know HOW to "regulate" a barrel to POA. But it is possible and doable.
It has been done for ages, in guns that cost 10's and 100's of thousands of $ (double/express rifles), it is normally done at barrel factories to "straighten" the BORE, that not always gets drilled EXACTLY through the center axis of the outside of the bar that later becomes a barrel.
Often after a barrel gets straightened it is then turned ON CENTERS to make excellent quality guns.
To repeat:
Proper regulation has NO ill effect on the pellet's trajectory.
Hope this puts at ease your mind.
Héctor Medina