GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: blackdiesel on March 31, 2016, 01:54:56 PM
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Now that I see them I don't have high hopes on how they will perform. The picture on the advertisement showed a diabolo style pellet. These pellets look like a long cylinder with a round head. Stay tuned- I will try them out this weekend. :'(
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So there shaped like the 25gr monsters? Or like a .177 AA 10.34?
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There's a hink of a skirt so not exactly like the monsters. More like the 28 gr Skenco NewBoy Seniors
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Well if Akin to the .177 10.3 & 13.4 straight waist design which are STELLAR pellets in a PCP don't discount the design just yet ;)
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Can only relate to the .177's.
Heavy weight pellets tested (as out the box in L-R order)
13.4gr JSB
15gr H&N Sniper Mag
16.1gr Eun Jin
16.2gr JSB
16.4gr H&N Baracuda Mag
21gr H&N Piledriver
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/a1ca62b8-d0ac-46b6-9ed3-cf3b15c59d4b.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/a1ca62b8-d0ac-46b6-9ed3-cf3b15c59d4b.jpg.html)
Don't discount that pellet shape....of the heavy .177's tested, the 13.4 and 16.2 JSB's have shot well in every .177 tested so far (9 rifles). The 21gr. PileDrivers haven't shot really well in any of the 9 and the "traditional" shaped 16.4 H&N Baracuda mag has only found 1 out of 9 rifles that shoots it well.
It's not a bad shape, has the potential for accuracy.
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What is the overall length of the new 34 gr. Beasts?....
Bob
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What is the overall length of the new 34 gr. Beasts?....
Bob
+1
Wonder why they, the Beasts, don't show up on JSB's or Predator Intl. site. Not much info out about these new pellets.
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Beast is on the right:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12440423_835339656592088_4253005001608648538_o.jpg)
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I'm guessing they are too long for the AT-44 mag, right? I know you got them for the Sumatra...
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What is the overall length of the new 34 gr. Beasts?....
Bob
I read 10.7 mm
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What is the overall length of the new 34 gr. Beasts?....
Bob
I read 10.7 mm
WOW! .42" or 27/64" tall/long
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Beast is on the right:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12440423_835339656592088_4253005001608648538_o.jpg)
Cool looking pellet,...makes me wanna buy a Sumatra .22 :)
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Let's some accuracy out of that Sumatra. I've been looking for a heavy pellet for my Sumatra to smack a pig with. Keep us posted.
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Well that is the most unusual pellet I have seen from JSB.... Perhaps they had had little success with a lot of the heavy cylindrical pellets so they have come up with a Diabolo with a long skirt with a shallow taper.... I'll be interested in hearing how these work.... They are about 0.005" longer than a Hatsan magazine, but the slot in the receiver is wide enough they might still work.... They will be too long for a stock .22 cal MRod magazine, but should work in a .25 cal MRod mag. with a .22 cal wheel installed in it.... I'm planning a new build with a .22 cal TJ's barrel that is 1/2" OD, so I will build the receiver around that idea.... The 16" twist of the barrel I have should tame those no problem....
Bob
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I can't wait to see how they perform in various rifles. The Monsters in .22 are absolute blech.
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Well that is the most unusual pellet I have seen from JSB.... Perhaps they had had little success with a lot of the heavy cylindrical pellets so they have come up with a Diabolo with a long skirt with a shallow taper.... I'll be interested in hearing how these work.... They are about 0.005" longer than a Hatsan magazine, but the slot in the receiver is wide enough they might still work.... They will be too long for a stock .22 cal MRod magazine, but should work in a .25 cal MRod mag. with a .22 cal wheel installed in it.... I'm planning a new build with a .22 cal TJ's barrel that is 1/2" OD, so I will build the receiver around that idea.... The 16" twist of the barrel I have should tame those no problem....
Bob
They have a similar design for .177 pellets too.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ztirffritz/Airgun%20Nation/222c4183-a808-47b3-a7c9-5376f070f596_zps3d4laryh.jpg)
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Beast is on the right:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12440423_835339656592088_4253005001608648538_o.jpg)
Cool looking pellet,...makes me wanna buy a Sumatra .22 :)
I think you should buy one. Then you could shoot all the pigs at farther than 25 yards. Bacon for years! Those piggies are a real problem where you are aren't they?
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What is the overall length of the new 34 gr. Beasts?....
Bob
I read 10.7 mm
Nice! The magazines for my Rainstorm-I are 12mm = .4725" or 15/32". Just ordered a tin of .22 Beasts & JSB Ultra Shock Hollowpoints along with the .25 Heavies & MK-II.
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Nice! The magazines for my Rainstorm-I are 12mm = .4725" or 15/32". Just ordered a tin of .22 Beasts & JSB Ultra Shock Hollowpoints along with the .25 Heavies & MK-II.
Please let us know how they all do, especially if you can stretch them out past 50 yards
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Beast is on the right:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12440423_835339656592088_4253005001608648538_o.jpg)
OK, now tell me something, how deep is the Skirt?
If that skirt is very deep your loading probe will not push these past the Transfer Port, just like the H&N Grizzly Pellets do, the hollow base on some of these pellets are so deep that with a multi shot AG even if they load in the Mag they will not push far enough past the air port and accuracy will be in the dirt! That is if the loading probe is of a needle style!
William
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To get the 34 gr. weight, I would think the skirt is not all that deep, but it is something to check.... I just measured a PRod magazine, and it looks like these are about 0.020" too long to fit without modding the mag....
Bob
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I tried them at full power at 30 yards, about 940 fps and they didn't do well at all. I'm going to take the time and lower the speed to see if they shoot better. I tried them in my older Sumatra and I think the barrels are larger on them. So need to also try them on the newer model too before I make a judgement.
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was the barrel bore cleaned and reseasoned?
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was the barrel bore cleaned and reseasoned?
Sumatras don't need much maintenance, if a pellet shoots well it will shoot.
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They shoot like poo in both my Sumatras on high power. I'm still going to test them at different speeds, so maybe all is not lost.
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That doesn't sound promising at all,....pity.
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I'm hoping they'll work well in my Rainstorm. Pretty much everything does.
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I think I will have to get at least one tin to try. I know my Marauder can deliver the goods, and the 23" LW should do it if any will. IF not, I can try the BSA tube and see if they like it any better...:)
Also, I am pretty certain they shoot well in *SOMETHING*...call JSB and ask what they tested in?
cheers,
Douglas
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I still find it odd that they (JSB), don't even mention or list them on their website.
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not really that odd Dave. maybe they just didnt update the site yet, or possibly since its a new concept they're waiting on feedback from the air gun communities to decide whether or not to push this particular item or scrap it outright.
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Just some video info of the beast...
Teds Holdover
https://www.facebook.com/TedsHoldOver/videos/835289663263754/ (https://www.facebook.com/TedsHoldOver/videos/835289663263754/)
William
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Got my order of .22 Beasts & Ultra Shocks. A little photo comparison:
L to R: 18.1 JSB, Ultra Shock, 32gr Eun Jin, Beast, .25 JSB Heavy
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/Habanero69er/003_zpsjfbzyldo.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Habanero69er/media/003_zpsjfbzyldo.jpg.html)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/Habanero69er/004_zpszemwfz6y.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Habanero69er/media/004_zpszemwfz6y.jpg.html)
Dimensions of Beast: 10.69mm (0.4205") total length, 1.32mm inside skirt.
I'm going to try them out in my Rainstorm & even in one of my 342s just for $h!t$ & giggles. Kinda breezy today, but it's coming directly out of the north, so I'll be shooting directly into the wind. Shouldn't be that big of a deal with such a heavy pellet. I'll report back on what I got.
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Got my order of .22 Beasts & Ultra Shocks. A little photo comparison:
L to R: 18.1 JSB, Ultra Shock, 32gr Eun Jin, Beast, .25 JSB Heavy
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/Habanero69er/004_zpszemwfz6y.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Habanero69er/media/004_zpszemwfz6y.jpg.html)
Dimensions of Beast: 10.69mm (0.4205") total length, 1.32mm inside skirt.
I'm going to try them out in my Rainstorm & even in one of my 342s just for $h!t$ & giggles. Kinda breezy today, but it's coming directly out of the north, so I'll be shooting directly into the wind. Shouldn't be that big of a deal with such a heavy pellet. I'll report back on what I got.
Nice of you to show the skirt depth difference, good luck with the testing...
To get the 34 gr. weight, I would think the skirt is not all that deep, but it is something to check.... I just measured a PRod magazine, and it looks like these are about 0.020" too long to fit without modding the mag....
Bob
Bob was correct in the skirt being shallow due to being able to get the heavy weight on the beasts...
William
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They're looking more like bullets. It'll be interesting to see how twisty rates play with them.
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Got my order of .22 Beasts & Ultra Shocks. A little photo comparison:
L to R: 18.1 JSB, Ultra Shock, 32gr Eun Jin, Beast, .25 JSB Heavy
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/Habanero69er/004_zpszemwfz6y.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Habanero69er/media/004_zpszemwfz6y.jpg.html)
Dimensions of Beast: 10.69mm (0.4205") total length, 1.32mm inside skirt.
I'm going to try them out in my Rainstorm & even in one of my 342s just for $h!t$ & giggles. Kinda breezy today, but it's coming directly out of the north, so I'll be shooting directly into the wind. Shouldn't be that big of a deal with such a heavy pellet. I'll report back on what I got.
Nice of you to show the skirt depth difference, good luck with the testing...
To get the 34 gr. weight, I would think the skirt is not all that deep, but it is something to check.... I just measured a PRod magazine, and it looks like these are about 0.020" too long to fit without modding the mag....
Bob
Bob was correct in the skirt being shallow due to being able to get the heavy weight on the beasts...
William
I knew that was one of the questions that needed to be answered for anyone interested in trying them out.
Indeed Bob was correct in his assumption. Made good sense, as usual.
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After shooting a magazine of each:
.22 Beasts, 10 shots @ 25yds, RS-1, measured 12.25mm
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/Habanero69er/009_zps9zthfa5p.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Habanero69er/media/009_zps9zthfa5p.jpg.html)
Expansion comparison of the 25gr JSB Ultra Shocks compared to 19.09gr H&N Hunter Extremes & 28gr Eun Jin domes.
I couldn't retrieve any of the Beasts because they really penetrated the 7/8" corded hard rubber backing I use to quiet my Champion bullet trap. I'm impressed with both the Beasts & Ultra Shocks.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/Habanero69er/007_zpsr91xmbwn.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Habanero69er/media/007_zpsr91xmbwn.jpg.html)
I plan to chrony the Beasts & Ultra Shocks tomorrow.
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Looks like the shoot pretty darn good out of your gun
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Good showing in the Storm :)
I knew the Ultra Shocks would be good , my old Storm loved them.
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That rifle shoots most everything well. It would have done better if I had a steadier shooting platform. My table isn't the steadiest thing in the world & my 4yr old granddaughter was playing spotter for me, but kept bumping the table. There I go, blaming it on the table & a little kid! ;)
The expansion of the Ultra Shocks is pretty darned good. Penetration of the Beasts was also very good. Both pellets I'm guessing are probably shooting in the 45-50fpe range. I'll know better tomorrow.
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Do the Beasts fit the Rainstorm mags?
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Do the Beasts fit the Rainstorm mags?
Not sure about RS-IIs, but they fit easily in the RS-I mag. You see the difference in length between the 32gr Eun Jin & the Beast, well the Eun Jins just fit, barely.
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Do the Beasts fit the Rainstorm mags?
They might, they look to be quite a bit shorter than the EunJin 32gr
If they do, it might be a great pellet for the Rainstorm II in .22 cal
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They're 10.68-10.7mm. So if you have an RS-II, measure the magazine. The magazine for an RS-I is 12mm deep.
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My .22 is a 1
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A guy on the yellow reviewed them, the Beasts have a .132 bc!
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1460306933/last-1460306933/Expand+Thread (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1460306933/last-1460306933/Expand+Thread)
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A bc of .132 at 21 yards is extremely high. Wonder what it is at 50 & 75 & 100.
If that is accurate this pellet hae literally broke the mold for whats to be expected from a skirted projectile & done so by a very wide margin. Its performance would be comparable to shooting cast bullets.
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Do the Beasts fit the Rainstorm mags?
They might, they look to be quite a bit shorter than the EunJin 32gr
If they do, it might be a great pellet for the Rainstorm II in .22 cal
I will have to order some before I go to the range in the next week or two to try in my RS II .22
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I'd like to see performance of these in a Sumatra long gun.
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I had just a few minutes to shoot a few Beasts over the chrony. Here's what I came up with @ 2yds:
1) 783.8
2) 792.9
3) 796.3
4) 800.3
5) 805.1
average fps: 795.7
average fpe: 47.75
I tried to do a BC calculation, but my 27yd chrony wouldn't cooperate. I was able to only get 3 shoots to register @ 27yds. If I take my high reading @ 2yds & my high reading @ 27yds, I come up with a Ballistic Coefficient = 0.176868
Those readings are just a bit suspect at best. ???
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The Sectional Density is 0.100.... I would be shocked if the BC was even that number, let alone higher....
Bob
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Agreed!
I'll try again later today. Yesterday the sun was shining directly across the chrony windows & was probably the reason I couldn't get an accurate reading at 27yds.
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Has anyone noticed if the Beasts seem to have a different lube than the usual JSB graphite-like lube used on most of their pellets?
Yesterday before trying to come up with a BC rating, I weighed several pellets to make sure I was shooting consistent weighing pellets. The Beasts were very slippery, but didn't leave that usual gray film on my finger tips.
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I wonder what they would do in my Condor SS ?
wll2506
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I wonder what they would do in my Condor SS ?
wll2506
Only one way to find out.
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I wonder what they would do in my Condor SS ?
wll2506
Only one way to find out.
I get it later this week, I think on Friday, maybe Saturday :- ) within an hour of picking her up the scope will be installed as will a sling, light bipod and maybe a few other accessories.
wll2506
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How do these compare overall to the JSB "redesigned" pellets?
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How do these compare overall to the JSB "redesigned" pellets?
Tad LATE on this thread ...
JSB came out with the design this thread started talking about back in "16" and have come out again with the redesign which by what we have reading many times is appearing to be better yet while also being able to be shot faster w/o giving up accuracy. 1000 fps many are shooting these redesigns.
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How do these compare overall to the JSB "redesigned" pellets?
Tad LATE on this thread ...
JSB came out with the design this thread started talking about back in "16" and have come out again with the redesign which by what we have reading many times is appearing to be better yet while also being able to be shot faster w/o giving up accuracy. 1000 fps many are shooting these redesigns.
Thank you Scott, good to know. The Beasts may be too heavy for most of my guns to shoot anyway...although I do have one Avenger ;) ;) ;)
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This may be helpful. At around 4 minutes into the video he gets into bc measurements.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0dH0ARzPJg4
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This guy did three BC tests in total (calc. with the GA model in ChairGun):
32FPE @ 31y: BC = 0.02235FPE @ 50y: BC = 0.02249FPE @ 32y: BC = 0.027
I'd love to see some test results from a Labradar...! 8)
Anyone?! 😊
Matthias
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How do these compare overall to the JSB "redesigned" pellets?
Tad LATE on this thread ...
JSB came out with the design this thread started talking about back in "16" and have come out again with the redesign which by what we have reading many times is appearing to be better yet while also being able to be shot faster w/o giving up accuracy. 1000 fps many are shooting these redesigns.
Thank you Scott, good to know. The Beasts may be too heavy for most of my guns to shoot anyway...although I do have one Avenger ;) ;) ;)
Charlie,
From my 39-40 fpe Liberty-
Monsters are shotgun pattern
Monster redesigned at 30 yds are one small round hole and very good at 50 although I have not shot them much out that far or farther.
Beasts are maybe 1/4" ctc at 30 and 1/2 at 50 yds.
Ultrashocks are 1/4 or so at 30 also.
I mostly shoot Barracuda match as they shoot extremely well and are more economical, or I shoot slugs. But I think the monster redesigned are a tad tighter.
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I was given a old inaccurate mrod barrel by someone on here (Wildcj5 and or nervoustrigger. I think.) Tbi injuries complicates my memory.
Anyways when I got it and installed it on my prod I had some diablo beast 33.95 pellets and was shooting grouse in the head with it.(stock valve, rainbow trajectory, all one hit knockouts, blood but no penetration)
I hogged out my valve and got over 67 fpe if I remember correctly. At that power I only got 4 or 5 shots.
I was beginning to think someone was being way too picky with their barrels, and with my low shot count I wanted to find a middle weight pellet so I could get more shots and stay around 900. Every other pellet I tried shot like &^^&. I just got lucky and found a pellet it likes from the start.
Grouse season started weeks ago and I haven’t been able to find my tin of pellets. I’m trying to get a bus ready for winter for my family so haven’t been able to do much hunting even though we need the meat. I found 14 pellets in a old tin and got 5 in one day. I still have 1 full mag. If anyone can spare any 33.95 beast pellets I still have time to convert them into canned meat as we don’t have power for our freezer this year. If I have time today I’ll post up in hunting gate
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How do these compare overall to the JSB "redesigned" pellets?
Tad LATE on this thread ...
JSB came out with the design this thread started talking about back in "16" and have come out again with the redesign which by what we have reading many times is appearing to be better yet while also being able to be shot faster w/o giving up accuracy. 1000 fps many are shooting these redesigns.
Thank you Scott, good to know. The Beasts may be too heavy for most of my guns to shoot anyway...although I do have one Avenger ;) ;) ;)
Charlie,
From my 39-40 fpe Liberty-
Monsters are shotgun pattern
Monster redesigned at 30 yds are one small round hole and very good at 50 although I have not shot them much out that far or farther.
Beasts are maybe 1/4" ctc at 30 and 1/2 at 50 yds.
Ultrashocks are 1/4 or so at 30 also.
I mostly shoot Barracuda match as they shoot extremely well and are more economical, or I shoot slugs. But I think the monster redesigned are a tad tighter.
Thanks Ray, I’ve been eyeing the Redesign in .22 for a while but nobody has them in stock it seems...
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I was given a old inaccurate mrod barrel by someone on here (Wildcj5 and or nervoustrigger. I think.) Tbi injuries complicates my memory.
Anyways when I got it and installed it on my prod I had some diablo beast 33.95 pellets and was shooting grouse in the head with it.(stock valve, rainbow trajectory, all one hit knockouts, blood but no penetration)
I hogged out my valve and got over 67 fpe if I remember correctly. At that power I only got 4 or 5 shots.
I was beginning to think someone was being way too picky with their barrels, and with my low shot count I wanted to find a middle weight pellet so I could get more shots and stay around 900. Every other pellet I tried shot like &^^&. I just got lucky and found a pellet it likes from the start.
Grouse season started weeks ago and I haven’t been able to find my tin of pellets. I’m trying to get a bus ready for winter for my family so haven’t been able to do much hunting even though we need the meat. I found 14 pellets in a old tin and got 5 in one day. I still have 1 full mag. If anyone can spare any 33.95 beast pellets I still have time to convert them into canned meat as we don’t have power for our freezer this year. If I have time today I’ll post up in hunting gate
Wow! Beasts for grouse head shots. Makes me think of using a wrecking ball to weed the garden. ;)
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How do these compare overall to the JSB "redesigned" pellets?
Tad LATE on this thread ...
JSB came out with the design this thread started talking about back in "16" and have come out again with the redesign which by what we have reading many times is appearing to be better yet while also being able to be shot faster w/o giving up accuracy. 1000 fps many are shooting these redesigns.
Thank you Scott, good to know. The Beasts may be too heavy for most of my guns to shoot anyway...although I do have one Avenger ;) ;) ;)
Charlie,
From my 39-40 fpe Liberty-
Monsters are shotgun pattern
Monster redesigned at 30 yds are one small round hole and very good at 50 although I have not shot them much out that far or farther.
Beasts are maybe 1/4" ctc at 30 and 1/2 at 50 yds.
Ultrashocks are 1/4 or so at 30 also.
I mostly shoot Barracuda match as they shoot extremely well and are more economical, or I shoot slugs. But I think the monster redesigned are a tad tighter.
Thanks Ray, I’ve been eyeing the Redesign in .22 for a while but nobody has them in stock it seems...
They also shoot really well out of my Akela too but are heavier than I need for that gun.