GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => AirForce Airguns => Topic started by: jkingsouthafrica on February 26, 2016, 02:21:56 PM
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This is our prototype LDC for the Airforce Texan . The Baffle unit starts off as bar stock that weighs in at 5.8 pounds , once machined it only weighs 0.833pounds The unit is 10 inches in total length.
Awesome sound reduction
Will be finished in Matt Black
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Please read the forum rules and in particular Rule #12.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0)
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He's in south Africa
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You think?
LOL
User name may be a giveaway.
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We can't talk about these items, yet they come on a large percentage of every pcp out there.
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The LDC can also be used on the Sam Yang 909 range of Big Bore airguns as there are adapters for each of the different calibres . In South Africa we don't have the same restrictions on LDC even for firearms . Also we were asked by shooters in the Netherlands to make a LDC with a larger calibre than 9mm this LDC can handle from 9mm up to .50 cal . It Seems like the Texan has become quite popular in The Netherlands .
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We can't talk about these items, yet they come on a large percentage of every pcp out there.
They are integrated into the gun with a shroud or can not be removed = no problems.
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We can't talk about these items, yet they come on a large percentage of every pcp out there.
They are integrated into the gun with a shroud or can not be removed = no problems.
There's no problems even if it can be removed, so long as there is no proof of intent to use on a firearm. ATF's website info is inaccurate if not a purposeful misttatement of the law. ATF's policies on airgun suppressor regulation were thrown out by the federal courts in 2010 and the guy they sentenced to hard time (Crooker) got released and awarded $172k for wrongful conviction. The courts have held that so long as there is no evidence of intent to use on a firearm, it doesn't matter if the suppressor can theoretically be fitted to one. However, owning a firearm with the same threadings as the suppressor could possibly be evidence of intent.
I have no problems with GTA's policy. Congress could easily amend the federal laws to include airgin suppressors. Better to not draw attention to the subject.
But it does make me mad that airgun blogs have been spreading ATF's website info around as if its the law when ATF has been overruled on the subject for nearly 6 years now. If you Google "airgun suppressor" you'll find lots of links that hold to ATF's position without acknowledging that ATF is overruled. One site even mention's Crooker's conviction as a scare tactic and doesn't acknowledge the overtturning of Crooker's case.
ATF wants your money and they want to know and regulate what weapons you own. They have an agenda. That agenda may contradict the law. You CANNOT trust that ATF's statement of the law is in fact the law. The COURTS determine what the law is and isn't. 9 times out of 10 the courts will back ATF up. But in the instance of airgun suppressors, the courts did not.
So to state the law as it stands at the date of this post, ATF has NO AUTHORITY over airgun suppressors. It does not matter if they can be removed and modified to fit a firearm. However, ATF does have authority over any suppressor that is intended for a firearm. Evidence of intent could include (but is not limited to) the suppressor having threads that match a particular firearm in your possession. Intent could also be proved with emails, texts, statements, anything that tends to show you intend to use the suppressor for firearm use. Obviously, gun powder residue on the suppressor would be strong evidence of intent. But the simple "it could possibly be fit to a firearm" argument was completely and expressly rejected by the courts.
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We can't talk about these items, yet they come on a large percentage of every pcp out there.
They are integrated into the gun with a shroud or can not be removed = no problems.
There's no problems even if it can be removed, so long as there is no proof of intent to use on a firearm. ATF's website info is inaccurate if not a purposeful misttatement of the law. ATF's policies on airgun suppressor regulation were thrown out by the federal courts in 2010 and the guy they sentenced to hard time (Crooker) got released and awarded $172k for wrongful conviction. The courts have held that so long as there is no evidence of intent to use on a firearm, it doesn't matter if the suppressor can theoretically be fitted to one. However, owning a firearm with the same threadings as the suppressor could possibly be evidence of intent.
I have no problems with GTA's policy. Congress could easily amend the federal laws to include airgin suppressors. Better to not draw attention to the subject.
But it does make me mad that airgun blogs have been spreading ATF's website info around as if its the law when ATF has been overruled on the subject for nearly 6 years now. If you Google "airgun suppressor" you'll find lots of links that hold to ATF's position without acknowledging that ATF is overruled. One site even mention's Crooker's conviction as a scare tactic and doesn't acknowledge the overtturning of Crooker's case.
ATF wants your money and they want to know and regulate what weapons you own. They have an agenda. That agenda may contradict the law. You CANNOT trust that ATF's statement of the law is in fact the law. The COURTS determine what the law is and isn't. 9 times out of 10 the courts will back ATF up. But in the instance of airgun suppressors, the courts did not.
So to state the law as it stands at the date of this post, ATF has NO AUTHORITY over airgun suppressors. It does not matter if they can be removed and modified to fit a firearm. However, ATF does have authority over any suppressor that is intended for a firearm. Evidence of intent could include (but is not limited to) the suppressor having threads that match a particular firearm in your possession. Intent could also be proved with emails, texts, statements, anything that tends to show you intend to use the suppressor for airgun use. Obviously, gun powder residue on the suppressor would be strong evidence of intent. But the simple "it could possibly be fit to a firearm" argument was completely and expressly rejected by the courts.
My reply was about what we can discuss on the GTA. We can discuss the PCP's with shrouded barrels and barrel shrouds made for airguns.
Other than that it reminds me of a movie title. What was that? "50 shades of Gray" ;)
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These will be laser engraved FOR AIRGUN USE ONLY
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We can't talk about these items, yet they come on a large percentage of every pcp out there.
They are integrated into the gun with a shroud or can not be removed = no problems.
There's no problems even if it can be removed, so long as there is no proof of intent to use on a firearm. ATF's website info is inaccurate if not a purposeful misttatement of the law. ATF's policies on airgun suppressor regulation were thrown out by the federal courts in 2010 and the guy they sentenced to hard time (Crooker) got released and awarded $172k for wrongful conviction. The courts have held that so long as there is no evidence of intent to use on a firearm, it doesn't matter if the suppressor can theoretically be fitted to one. However, owning a firearm with the same threadings as the suppressor could possibly be evidence of intent.
I have no problems with GTA's policy. Congress could easily amend the federal laws to include airgin suppressors. Better to not draw attention to the subject.
But it does make me mad that airgun blogs have been spreading ATF's website info around as if its the law when ATF has been overruled on the subject for nearly 6 years now. If you Google "airgun suppressor" you'll find lots of links that hold to ATF's position without acknowledging that ATF is overruled. One site even mention's Crooker's conviction as a scare tactic and doesn't acknowledge the overtturning of Crooker's case.
ATF wants your money and they want to know and regulate what weapons you own. They have an agenda. That agenda may contradict the law. You CANNOT trust that ATF's statement of the law is in fact the law. The COURTS determine what the law is and isn't. 9 times out of 10 the courts will back ATF up. But in the instance of airgun suppressors, the courts did not.
So to state the law as it stands at the date of this post, ATF has NO AUTHORITY over airgun suppressors. It does not matter if they can be removed and modified to fit a firearm. However, ATF does have authority over any suppressor that is intended for a firearm. Evidence of intent could include (but is not limited to) the suppressor having threads that match a particular firearm in your possession. Intent could also be proved with emails, texts, statements, anything that tends to show you intend to use the suppressor for airgun use. Obviously, gun powder residue on the suppressor would be strong evidence of intent. But the simple "it could possibly be fit to a firearm" argument was completely and expressly rejected by the courts.
My reply was about what we can discuss on the GTA. We can discuss the PCP's with shrouded barrels and barrel shrouds made for airguns.
Other than that it reminds me of a movie title. What was that? "50 shades of Gray" ;)
Ah, got ya.
Like I said, I have no problem with GTA's policy. There's reasons to not discuss them that have nothing to do with the misperception that they are regulated if detachable. I just don't like the misstatements of the law that are out there in the airgun community.
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Great info Travis.
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The Law not withstanding, a LOT of lawn mower mufflers are illegal devices according to the ATF. . As is a potato, pop bottle, pillow and a whole lot of others!. Remember, the ATF does not make the laws. Congress does. Nor do they decide the law,or it's ramifications. The Courts do. What is posted above is nothing more than their wishful thinking. NOT the LAW!!!
The actual governing laws have to do with intent. Too many AG Forums run scared of the sky is falling syndrome, completely ignoring the actual Laws governing the use of the items being discussed. ;)
No purpose built for Air Guns LDC is illegal, "Unless" it can be adapted to firearm use, WITHOUT modification. This includes threading, or any dimensional changes made in order to make the device fit a firearm. Period!
As for the design shown, it would require an adapter, ie; bbl. to adapter to device to be used on a firearm. If in possession, both the adapter,and then the device both would then be a controlled item, and hence, Illegal. If not in possession together, the adapter would still be illegal, and prosecutable.
Knife
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The Law not withstanding, a LOT of lawn mower mufflers are illegal devices according to the ATF. . As is a potato, pop bottle, pillow and a whole lot of others!. Remember, the ATF does not make the laws. Congress does. Nor do they decide the law,or it's ramifications. The Courts do. What is posted above is nothing more than their wishful thinking. NOT the LAW!!!
The actual governing laws have to do with intent. Too many AG Forums run scared of the sky is falling syndrome, completely ignoring the actual Laws governing the use of the items being discussed. ;)
No purpose built for Air Guns LDC is illegal, "Unless" it can be adapted to firearm use, WITHOUT modification. This includes threading, or any dimensional changes made in order to make the device fit a firearm. Period!
As for the design shown, it would require an adapter, ie; bbl. to adapter to device to be used on a firearm. If in possession, both the adapter,and then the device both would then be a controlled item, and hence, Illegal. If not in possession together, the adapter would still be illegal, and prosecutable.
Knife
The only Adapter we are making for it are to fit the Sam Yang 909 range of Big Bore airguns from 9mm up to .50 cal not to fit firearms
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as as the S.Y does not use fire arm threading, this is perfectly legal. Good Deal! And we appreciate your efforts. ;) :D
Again, any possibilities for a .257 LDC in the future? .257, Talon/dor, with 26 5/8 bbl. 8)
Knife
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as as the S.Y does not use fire arm threading, this is perfectly legal. Good Deal! And we appreciate your efforts. ;) :D
Again, any possibilities for a .257 LDC in the future? .257, Talon/dor, with 26 5/8 bbl. 8)
Knife
thank you we have a number of on going projects and as they come to completion we will def add new ones in the future .
The one very cool thing about this LDC is it has really improved accuracy of the Texan will be posting photos of the finished LDC in the very near future
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Wow that baffle unit seems over designed and heavy. I would think that could be machined from glass reinforced nylon, be just as stable and much lighter. With a bit more machine time it also seem like more material could be hogged away providing more "chamber volume" and less weight.
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Like
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The baffle unit weighs 8.8 OZ The LCD is finally finished Awesome sound reduction and has greatly improved the accuracy of this awesome rifle . Can be used on all the Sam Yang 909 Big Bore rifles as we have made adapters for the 9mm / 45 cal / 50 cal.
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This is a 5 shot group shot at 85 yards using the LDC Using JBS King 180 grain cast pellet fill pressure was 3400 psi @ 1030 fps