GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: GD Giles on February 20, 2016, 11:42:21 AM
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When I first got this Hatsan 95 in .22 I was firing CPHP's and 95% of my shooting is backyard at targets on the ground. Once I used my pellet trap, on the ground, and once I used a small spinner target, on the ground. Other than that it's a Coke can or bottle cap or something on the grass.
When I got a variety of pellets in I did some testing and discovered my gun grouped best with the JSB Heavy, 18.13gr so I'm shooting those for the most part. Now I'm noticing that my pellets are ricocheting off the ground/grass and into the tree, shrubs, fence posts, house ( :-\ ) behind the target. I'm guessing it's because they don't expand that much when they hit the dirt? I'm also shooting from a slightly elevated position so the target, if it's 20 yards away, is probably a foot or two lower than where I'm standing and that slope continues beyond the target. I've never had pellets ricochet off a lawn before. I could understand if it was cement or even hard dirt but this is grass covered lawn and we've gotten a lot of rain so it's not hard dirt at all. Are the JSB's that much harder than the CPHP's that they're bouncing off the lawn?
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When I first got this Hatsan 95 in .22 I was firing CPHP's and 95% of my shooting is backyard at targets on the ground. Once I used my pellet trap, on the ground, and once I used a small spinner target, on the ground. Other than that it's a Coke can or bottle cap or something on the grass.
When I got a variety of pellets in I did some testing and discovered my gun grouped best with the JSB Heavy, 18.13gr so I'm shooting those for the most part. Now I'm noticing that my pellets are ricocheting off the ground/grass and into the tree, shrubs, fence posts, house ( :-\ ) behind the target. I'm guessing it's because they don't expand that much when they hit the dirt? I'm also shooting from a slightly elevated position so the target, if it's 20 yards away, is probably a foot or two lower than where I'm standing and that slope continues beyond the target. I've never had pellets ricochet off a lawn before. I could understand if it was cement or even hard dirt but this is grass covered lawn and we've gotten a lot of rain so it's not hard dirt at all. Are the JSB's that much harder than the CPHP's that they're bouncing off the lawn?
Could be that...and that the pellet hits the hard ground
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JSB pellets are the softest I know of, and Crosman amongst the hardest alloy.
I've definitely experienced the ricochet like you describe with shots at a shallow angle but I would expect it to be about the same regardless of the type of pellet.
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You might be forgetting your rifle is now fixed and back to full power, not the decreasing power you had before when the seal was going bad...500 back up to 800 is a sizable jump....
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Sounds like you need some back stop berms, I learned from shooting into snow drifts that ricochets are possible no matter what.
I'll put some sort of back stop behind target areas I have at different ranges, old pressed board shelf, doubled up and leaning on a downward angle 30 degrees - 45.
I am tinkering with the idea of boxes or the like filled with shredded tire mulch for this season.
I just put together a target box made from an old electrical box, just removed the workings inside laid it on its back and propped the cover up on a 45 with a section of predded board. and some magnets to hold the targets. <be testing it this afternoon.>
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Steve I never shot it in the backyard when it had the damaged seal. That happened at the indoor range and it went straight from there to my chrony on the dinning room table to the box to Hatsan repair.
I'm going to have to come up with a backstop I guess. I guess my days of just chasing an object across the lawn are over.
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Any pellet or bullet will bounce off the ground and fly where ever it wants to go, depending on the angle it gets worse. The dryer out it is and the harder the ground the more likely it will ricochet (the grass wont stop it either). All of my guns will do that including big bores or small bores, I have heard them fly 200 feet up through the woods.
As for softer lead or harder it does not matter, it will ricochet even if it mushrooms. Never ever trust shooting into the ground at slight angles! You need a good back stop that is 90* flat and soft, such as a large mound of dirt or clay.
You can use 5 gallon buckets of similar filled with rubber mulch or use square tubs. Just make sure to shoot at the buckets END top and not when it is setting up rite. There are some good pellet trap designs mention here and on the GTA forum.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=77524.msg738343#msg738343 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=77524.msg738343#msg738343)
Be careful and happy shooting.
William
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Could be the heavier pellet is simply harder to stop.
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JSBs are pretty soft lead. Easy fix: a 4'x8' sheet of 5/8''-3/4" plywood as a backstop. That should be ample enough to stop a ricochet off the dirt.
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Change the angle that the pellet travels.
Richard
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that would be the easiest thing to do; just change my shooting position in the backyard. My neighbor on one side has a brick wall and where my lot slopes down his is level so I'd have about 5' of brick wall as a back stop.
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that would be the easiest thing to do; just change my shooting position in the backyard. My neighbor on one side has a brick wall and where my lot slopes down his is level so I'd have about 5' of brick wall as a back stop.
I can't imagine that you neighbor would be all that happy with pellet marks/divots in his brick wall!! Much better to build and use your own berm.
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The wall is buried behind 6' of brush, shrubs and trees. It's a retaining wall for dirt that makes his lot level. You can't even see it, except for the top, it's so far behind vegetation growth but I'd ask him first. Confident he wouldn't mind though. It also puts my shot angle at now shooting into a slope instead of down a slope so that alone should solve some issues. Plus, I wouldn't mind tossing some soil to mound up in front of his wall, if I could get back there, to help out.
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I use a couple of double rows of hay bales, go 2 rows high if necessary. Not the 1st problem with a TX MK3 in .177 and .22. When I started using the hay bales, I hung a piece of black plastic behind them, never found a hole in the plastic so it was working well.
Charles
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I've already got 2 hay bales against that wall up front so yeah, that would be easy.
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The area in red is our 8 acres. The area in yellow is our home under a 45' X 100' tin roof with our outdoor shooting range off of the rear deck. Ricochet is not an issue..... lol However, Rattle and Cotton Mouth Snakes, Coyotes, Wild Pigs and the occasional Bobcat are. Not to mention the daggone Fire Ants and Mosquitoes. We wouldn't have it any other way.
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Definitely best to build burm and safely stop the pellets. Ricochet can be crazy dangerous. I'm a member of a bench rest club, and ricochet is a serious problem. All members have to go through a safety class and most of it deals with containing one's projectiles. I know your not shooting powder charged projectiles but even 18 gr. Pellets can do some damage. We had a case here where a member put out a target well in front of the burm, fired 762x39 at said target, ricocheted off the soft ground and landed several rounds into a campground full of boy scouts. Talk about excitement.
Studies have shown that ricochet is worse off flat earth than concrete. Projectiles tend to stay low or on the concrete surface skidding along the surface, where earth bounces them, sporadically,upward.
Many of the public ranges have moved to paved concrete surfaces for this reason.
Anyway, food for thought. The whole "Ounce of prevention" thing is always true.
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I would suggest to grow your grass longer also, my Grass is left fairly long where I shoot and have not noticed any ricochets.
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I used to shoot at the smooth side of a sheet of diamond tread aluminum hung from a frame at the top only. If you hit the same spot enough, it'll punch through eventually. But it had a good amount of area to place a lot of different targets. And the swinging sheet of aluminum did a good job of absorbing the impact, dropping the flattened pellets nearly straight down. Also, a little less noisy than steel.
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Get yourself a surplus ammo can. Then put 2 or 3 magazines, phone books etc in the back, thick ones so you have about 3 inches of stoping power. Add a layer of high density foam or styrofoam and duct tape a peice of card board to the front to stick targets on. Or leave out all the foam padding drill a hole in each end run a coat hanger through the holes and hang your spoons on it. I also drilled holes in the side and put golf tees in the holes to hold up pait balls etc. Its a nice compact trap that is cheap and will stop an air rifle plus catch all your lead for melting. When your done shooting slap the lid on and walk away. You can also load all your ammo, range finder etc in it for carrying to your spot. Million ideas and ways to use it with 0 ricochettes.
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I use a couple of double rows of hay bales, go 2 rows high if necessary. Not the 1st problem with a TX MK3 in .177 and .22. When I started using the hay bales, I hung a piece of black plastic behind them, never found a hole in the plastic so it was working well.
Charles
I like the hay bale idea, it would provide habitat for live targets lol