GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: marty2 on February 15, 2016, 09:29:08 PM
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at what fps were they shooting when the gun was new? The reason I ask is... I disassembled mine today to install a Vortek kit and after pulling the spring out I noticed about 1 and a half coils were broken of the end with the spring guide. About 4 coils up from the other end the spring was bent about 10deg. out of straight. I'm trying to figure out when the spring broke and bent. I have been shooting the H&N FTTs since the gun was new( gave me the best groups). The gun has about 4500 pellets through the barrel. Also, I have never had a dry fire with this gun.
It was shooting the H&Ns at about 850+/- fps when new and has been declining slowly ever since. Today before the tear down it was shooting 810 +/- fps.
Is this about the norm for the life expectancy of these springs?
At least now I know why the gun was performing so poorly and all along I thought it was me. ;D
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Hey Marty,
I don't have an an answer to your question as my 97 is .20 cal. But I'm going to add this just for conversation sake. About two months ago I decided to shoot my D34 because it had been a long time since I had her out last. I took one shot and GOOD NIGHT, I could tell something was wrong. The sound was gnarly and the pellet hit about 2foot short of the intended target. I waist I had chrony numbers but wasn't about to fire it again. I took it apart to install a vortek kit and my original spring had broken n two places. I have never dry fired the rifle but I always shot jsb .177, 10.3 gr pellets through it because they were most accurate. I bet I only had 1500-2000 rounds through it. Here is a pic of the old broken spring next to the new vortek pg2 kit.
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/Thiggs1/Diana%2034%20facelift/image_zpsldx2vppg.jpeg)
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Wow.... yours broke on both ends ??? I'm curious to see how long the Vortek spring lasts.
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Hmmm. Concerning.
I have an HW97 and have been firing Crosman Premiers in it. So far, so good but I've been considering having it serviced and a new spring installed. Might be a good idea after all.
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I hear springs are "consumables". Just like brake pads on a car. And some cars and drivers get LONG life out the pads (little old ladies), and some cars and drivers get very short life out of the pads (think Pizza delivery). And then there's the rest of us that fall somewhere in between.
No one can really predict how much life you'll get out of a spring...
Is 4500 pellets a low number? Did you expect to get more life out of the spring?
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Yes I did expect more life out of the spring. I guess I was being overly optimistic. No big deal as I have the Vortek kit here ready to install. A lesson learned. :D
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You know, I have NO experience with these guns. Well, up until a few minutes ago, anyway. My grin is permanent now. ;D I'm going to LIKE this. Plenty of power, and it seems to be way more accurate than I am. (HW95 arrived today with H&N FTT and Baracuda Match)
Anyway, I don't really know if you should have gotten more rounds from the spring. But I'm fairly confident that they're going to give up at some point. Hector Medina had a very pertinent post on this here: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104129.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104129.0)
Jim;
Damage is a relative term.
All things have lives. Springs included.
Back in the days when people thought that springs had to last a generation (or more), to have to replace a broken spring after 7,000 rounds was considered "damage".
In this current day and age of printer cartridges and toners, we have become accustomed to the idea of things having finite lives.
A very heavy pellet will make the piston rebound, yes, but that is not the problem. The problem is that in rebounding, the piston compresses the spring, which then distends again. Extreme cases can do this three times per shot. At three cycles per shot, fatigue sets into the steel much faster than when you use the spring one cycle per shot.
So, when a spring dies after 2,500 rounds of heavy pellet usage, people say your spring got "damaged".
Too light a pellet and what suffers are your seals. The seals take the brunt of decelerating the piston at the end of its travel, and that energy has to go somewhere. USUALLY, it goes to destroy the seals.
One aspect about springers that few people realize is that a well adjusted springer will always give you peak Muzzle Energy with the best pellet for the power plant.
Some power plants are highly strung instead of being finely tuned and this makes them pellet finicky. Some power plants look for maximum muzzle velocity and then disregard the effect of excessive MV in a pellet's ballistics. BUT, for some shooters, the ONLY solution to taming down the beast is using a heavy pellet. The heavy pellet will give you lower velocity and, sometimes that improves the accuracy.
As you gain experience, you will learn to LISTEN to your rifle. The sounds (and even better, the LACK thereof), usually can tell you a lot of how your gun is performing and if you can improve it.
A few heavy pellets will not hurt any quality spring, so test to your heart's content. When you find a pellet that the gun likes, is when the fun starts.
IN GENERAL, small compression chambers with smallish pistons (like the HW's and the AA's) work their best with pellets in the region of 8 to 9 grains in 0.177" cal. but all rifles are a law unto their own, so test. Test everything, from 7.33's to 10.5's
Also check to see if your particular barrel likes the pellets lubed (and with what) or not.
HTH and keep us posted.
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An update to this post........ I installed the Vortek kit(first time ever getting into a springer) and reassembled the rifle with 4 of the 5 spring spacers that were included. After about 100 pellets the gun stabilized nicely at 895+/- fps with the H&N FTT 8.64 pellets. Same as pre tune, accuracy was good but not as good as everyone states these guns are supposed to be(always thought it was me).
Jim...... I've always been leery of trying heavier pellets for fear of damaging the spring. But after reading Hectors post I started testing some AA 10.3s I have. Wow what a difference in the accuracy. The fps went down to 812 +/_ fps and the gun shoots better than it ever has. The shot cycle is smoother also. I'll keep shooting the heavier pellets even if it means replacing the spring more often. Worth it to me. Looks like I will be looking to find a home for a couple of tins off the H&N pellets ;D
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I hear springs are "consumables". Just like brake pads on a car. And some cars and drivers get LONG life out the pads (little old ladies), and some cars and drivers get very short life out of the pads (think Pizza delivery). And then there's the rest of us that fall somewhere in between.
No one can really predict how much life you'll get out of a spring...
Is 4500 pellets a low number? Did you expect to get more life out of the spring?
Personally I consider a 4500 shot life to be short and I'd be replacing a spring every 6 months with that! A few years ago I bought an early version of the Vortek PG2 kit for my .177 R9 and within 3 months the spring sagged enough to lose 60fps with a bit less than a case of CPLs (about 4500 shots). The spring didn't break but it did sag. A couple decades ago I bought a Maccari Soft Spring kit for my Beeman R10 and after installing it I was shooting 7.9 grain pellets at 910fps. I kept track of empty pellet tins and boxes and after 20,000 shots I stopped keeping track. LOL......after 20,000 shots the R10 was still spitting out 7.9 grain pellets at 905fps which is identical to the starting velocity for all practical purposes. Recently I was down to my last Maccari E1500 spring with over 10,000 shots on it so I thought I'd re-try a Vortek spring since I've been reading a lot of great reports in the couple years since I bought the PG2 kit. Well....I ordered this spring for my new HW95..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3452015/1449924172_1095754051_Vortek118_770_775Spring.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=78972)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I installed it in the HW95, like the spring kit bought a couple years ago the spring sagged after about 2500 shots to the point that the pellet trajectory change was noticeable. I then ordered these Maccari springs and retired the relatively new sagging Vortek spring..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3452015/1449924168_1281150010_E3650Spring1.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=78970)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
This spring is currently in my HW95 and seems to be holding up after a few thousand shots (about 3 boxes of CPLs).
Anywhoo....the point of all this is the face that "4500 shots" will be considered "short lived" by some shooters and be "for life" with other shooters. I'm guessing that most shooters only shoot a few tins of pellets per year so the Vortek drop in kits will be perfectly adequate for their needs and the customer service given by Tom is definitely one of the best!!
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Thanks for the reply Ed, I value your opinion. I should take me about 6 to 8 months to go thru another 4500 pellets. I'm curious to see how long the Vortek spring will last.
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I had the factory spring in my R9 bust after less than a thousand shots. It broke a coils in from one end - I don't know which end.
I put a vortek in it, rather than fiddle with another factory spring because I didn't like the twang so much. After that, I put a vortek in my HW95 as soon as I got it. They're both about 1500 shots in with no noticable drop in velocity. I did have a brief drop in velocity on the R9, but that was with lube from the vortek kit. I switched to M77 moly and they are rocking now.
| R9 | .177 | 8.4gr JSB Exact | 900 fps | 15fpe |
| HW95 | .22 | 13.4gr JSB Exact | 820 fps | 20fpe |
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My HW97K doesn't seem to care a whole lot for any of the three .177 head size H&N FTT's. So far, JSB 8.44 gr. Exacts have given very nice 30 yard groups. On a lark, I shot a five shot group of JSB 10,34 gr. Exacts this afternoon. I was very excited/please with one ragged hole that was <3/8" across.
Anybody else shoot the 10.34 gr. pellets in their 97K?
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My HW97K doesn't seem to care a whole lot for any of the three .177 head size H&N FTT's. So far, JSB 8.44 gr. Exacts have given very nice 30 yard groups. On a lark, I shot a five shot group of JSB 10,34 gr. Exacts this afternoon. I was very excited/please with one ragged hole that was <3/8" across.
Anybody else shoot the 10.34 gr. pellets in their 97K?
I do. They are by far the best JSB Exact pellets in my 97k. But they are easily equalled by, guess what, the €5,90 per 500 Crosman Domed pellets. Haven't seen these on the US websites. They weigh only 7.4 grain and there is no hint of batchnumbers, dies, or year of production on the tin. Are they from different dies?
About the life expectancy of the spring. I guess mine broke after 3000 pellets already. It cocked easier, but shot as accurate as before. Replaced it with a Vortek 16 joule kit but wasn't pleased with the consistency. Experimented with other configurations a bit and now it's back to it's 100% default (and twangy) configuration. I like it plenty this way.
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My HW97K doesn't seem to care a whole lot for any of the three .177 head size H&N FTT's. So far, JSB 8.44 gr. Exacts have given very nice 30 yard groups. On a lark, I shot a five shot group of JSB 10,34 gr. Exacts this afternoon. I was very excited/please with one ragged hole that was <3/8" across.
Anybody else shoot the 10.34 gr. pellets in their 97K?
I found mine likes the AA 10.3 pellets which look like they are a rebranded JSB and are cheaper. You might what to try them.