GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: 1911 Range Officer on February 13, 2016, 10:00:02 AM
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I'd like to keep it under $500 but I figure that gives me enough to get something worth shooting. I will use it for hunting small game, so .22 or 25 caliber will be needed. I can't get .25 local so that's a knock and PCP is out of the question for now, maybe down the road once I move if I welding or scuba shop or something near by can fill tanks for me as I'm not spending the coin on a shoe box compressor. So Spring power it is! I have heard a lot of mixed opinions of the gas piston rifles so I'd like to steer clear, besides springs don't leak.
A fixed barrel seems like it would be a plus for accuracy and maybe less obvious movement under cocking? I would think I will need something that at least yields ???ft/lb of ME? BTW that $500 should be rifle and scope. Suggestions for something accurate, reasonably easy to shoot, and powerful enough? Range would be >30 yards.
P.S. Been a powder burner all my life and i'm not that great with springers, I'd love to go PCP, but again air is the problem, and I doubt i'd enjoy using a hand pump. Cocking, loading, aim and fire seems like it would net me a lot more pleasure for the dollar....Though if I can't shoot it well, that's going to frustrate me. Hopefully I'm not asking for the world here lol. And thank you in advance, you guru's are very helpful to us new/inexperienced guys.
ETA: RWS 460 Mag?
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The Diana model 48 is a very accurate springer rifle that is famous for it's accuracy and hunting power. They balance really well inhand so you won't notice the weight so much.
These fixed barrel sidecockers have a long history (and lots of small game) to their credit.
Airgun Depot offers "refurb" units periodically that are priced great. Keep checking with them because they sell fast when they come up.
They are magnum class power (20+fpe in .22), so I got the Leapers scopes on mine and they have held up for years. The newer glass etched 3-12x44 Swat Compact was my last purchase and I think they're a great scope. Tough and plenty of magnification for $150.00
I bet you can put this combo together in your budget if you pay attention to prices/deals.
Happy Huntin... :)
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I'd like to keep it under $500 but I figure that gives me enough to get something worth shooting. I will use it for hunting small game, so .22 or 25 caliber will be needed. I can't get .25 local so that's a knock and PCP is out of the question for now, maybe down the road once I move if I welding or scuba shop or something near by can fill tanks for me as I'm not spending the coin on a shoe box compressor. So Spring power it is! I have heard a lot of mixed opinions of the gas piston rifles so I'd like to steer clear, besides springs don't leak.
A fixed barrel seems like it would be a plus for accuracy and maybe less obvious movement under cocking? I would think I will need something that at least yields ???ft/lb of ME? BTW that $500 should be rifle and scope. Suggestions for something accurate, reasonably easy to shoot, and powerful enough? Range would be >30 yards.
P.S. Been a powder burner all my life and i'm not that great with springers, I'd love to go PCP, but again air is the problem, and I doubt i'd enjoy using a hand pump. Cocking, loading, aim and fire seems like it would net me a lot more pleasure for the dollar....Though if I can't shoot it well, that's going to frustrate me. Hopefully I'm not asking for the world here lol. And thank you in advance, you guru's are very helpful to us new/inexperienced guys.
ETA: RWS 460 Mag?
I would go with a HW95 (AOA has on sale) or a D-34 with money left over for a nice scope and mounts.
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We have a good selection of both under lever guns and break barrel guns and I would be hard pressed to prove an accuracy advantage for the under lever guns. Keep in mind, though, that these are all quality guns, all with excellent triggers, so that probably will have more effect on accuracy than the type of springer. Another vote for the HW95. That definitely get you into the quality with excellent trigger category. Also lighter than the typical under lever, too, and that may be a factor for your hunting.
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Midway USA has the Hatsan .30cal shipping in March of 2016
30-35FPE for under $300US
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
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Midway USA has the Hatsan .30cal shipping in March of 2016
30-35FPE for under $300US
Great suggestion, he said that gas rams aren't on his radar, .25 is kinda iffy because of avaiability and he's not all that great at shooting springers,...the Hatsan .30 super magnum is the perfect compromise than :) :) :)
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
Agree, something to really look into.
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I have always thought that the accuracy of the fixed barrel vs the breakbarrel is that that mastering the Hold Sensitivity of the lighter breakbarrel with high or magnum power is a real issue for so many shooters. The fixed barrel Magnum class rifles are more tame, and generally easier for shooters to master. The added weight is a help to the shooter in this case, I believe.
Any newer Diana has a very good trigger, as do many of the good and proven rifles.
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I'd like to keep it under $500 but I figure that gives me enough to get something worth shooting. I will use it for hunting small game, so .22 or 25 caliber will be needed.
For what is considered 'traditional airgun quarry' (birds, rats, squirrels, rabbits, pigeons) the Brits have been using a Gov't mandated 12 foot pound limit to successfully 'hunt' for many decades. Even with cherished competition target models.
Some personal experience examples:
My longest kill shot with a .177 barrel cocking steel spring airgun was a headshot with an HW95k/R10 with Leupold 3-9x33EFR, on a nutria at 75 yards. Longest with a .22 barrel cocker was a nutria, headshot at 50 yards with an HW80k/R1 with Leupy 3-9x33EFR. Longest kill with a '64 Sheridan Blue Streak .20/8 pumps w/ open sights, was a nutria headshot at 50 yards. Also a headshot on another nutria with a Benjamin 397P-N .177/8 pumps w/ open sights, at 50 yards. All were from a standing offhand position and were laser ranged. Have made many similar shots on other small game with various older Dans/Benjamins/HWs/FWBs/RWS34s/pistols, etc. from 20 to 40+ yards.
Airgun hunting requires trajectory considerations similar to archery or looong range centerfire! Shot placement is KING!
"Was there regret of under power or not enough grain weight?"
Only regret is not being 100% accurate 100% of the time.
Another example from a different shooter:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103964.msg984929#msg984929 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103964.msg984929#msg984929)
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I'd like to keep it under $500 but I figure that gives me enough to get something worth shooting. I will use it for hunting small game, so .22 or 25 caliber will be needed. I can't get .25 local so that's a knock and PCP is out of the question for now, maybe down the road once I move if I welding or scuba shop or something near by can fill tanks for me as I'm not spending the coin on a shoe box compressor. So Spring power it is! I have heard a lot of mixed opinions of the gas piston rifles so I'd like to steer clear, besides springs don't leak.
A fixed barrel seems like it would be a plus for accuracy and maybe less obvious movement under cocking? I would think I will need something that at least yields ???ft/lb of ME? BTW that $500 should be rifle and scope. Suggestions for something accurate, reasonably easy to shoot, and powerful enough? Range would be >30 yards.
P.S. Been a powder burner all my life and i'm not that great with springers, I'd love to go PCP, but again air is the problem, and I doubt i'd enjoy using a hand pump. Cocking, loading, aim and fire seems like it would net me a lot more pleasure for the dollar....Though if I can't shoot it well, that's going to frustrate me. Hopefully I'm not asking for the world here lol. And thank you in advance, you guru's are very helpful to us new/inexperienced guys.
ETA: RWS 460 Mag?
LOL...after messing with .20 and .22 barrels on my R9 over a decade ago and finding that the "fat pellets" didn't perform any better on tree squirrels than the .177 cal I started out with I sold both the .20 and .22 barrels reverting back to .177 never to look back. At R9 power levels (about 14 fpe) I found that the loopier trajectory of the .20/.22s caused more "off the mark hits" than the .177 cal due to the precision of range "guestimation" and the amount of holdover required past my zero distance (30 yards). I also learned that with R9 power level springers the only game that counts is putting a pellet THROUGH the vitals is of any value and an "off the mark hit" with a .22 pellet isn't as good as an "on the mark hit" with a .177 pellet! Some one shot kills with my .177 R9..........
One squirrel head shot and one double lunged........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1422015/1432420504_815778689_TwoSquirrels.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=72829)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
This one was head shot........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1862015/1436152756_695899112_SquirrelatFTtarget.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=74983)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
What happens to the squirrels..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1422015/1432420505_79859400_FriedSquirrels.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=72830)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Some larger critters, all single .177 cal hits.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1422015/1432420502_1296994051_groundhog.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=72828)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1422015/1432420501_1813198920_Racoon_R9_1.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=72827)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
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Thanks for everyone's input thus far. I'll take a 2nd look at the discovery, I think it will be it or the RWS 460 mag. The Discovery would cost less, and if it's really not that big of a deal to pump compared to 3000psi fill air rifles...
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
Agree, something to really look into.
Another nice option would be the Benjamin Maximus, which is basically a discovery with a synthetic stock, the price starts at $199, so there would be more money for an optic. If pumping isn't your thing, then weihrauch springers are hard to beat, AOA has the HW95, and the HW97k is currently at $400 here http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw97-k.html (http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw97-k.html)
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I am thinking a breakbarrel pushing 11-15 fpe would suit your needs just fine. Guns like the Diana 34, R9/HW95,Walther LGV or the new Walther Terrus. Caliber should be .177 or .22, based on your personal preference. You can always go back and get a .25 magnum or a pcp later down the road. A sweet mid powered breakbarrel with a soft 12-13 fpe tune is easy to cock, easy to shoot, easy to carry, and packs enough punch for most airgun game.
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For a scope, I'd get a Leupold VX-2 3-9x33 EFR. Optics Planet has it on sale
http://shop.opticsplanet.com/leupold-vari-x-3-9x28mm-compact-rifle-scope-with-gloss-black-finish-and-duplex-reticle.html?_iv_code=LU-RS-VX2-3-9x33-110827&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CM-h-o_Q9coCFZCIaQodi_gJew (http://shop.opticsplanet.com/leupold-vari-x-3-9x28mm-compact-rifle-scope-with-gloss-black-finish-and-duplex-reticle.html?_iv_code=LU-RS-VX2-3-9x33-110827&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CM-h-o_Q9coCFZCIaQodi_gJew)
That doesn't leave much room under your cap for a rifle. But this scope will last a lifetime and you can put it on any upgrade rifle you might choose in the future.
For now, I'd suggest the Ruger Blackhawk Elite .177
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ruger-Blackhawk-Elite-.177-Pellet-Air-Rifle-with-Scope/27678724 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ruger-Blackhawk-Elite-.177-Pellet-Air-Rifle-with-Scope/27678724)
to mount the scope on leaving you $14 to buy two tins of pellets.
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After looking at what a respectable pump costs.. Discovery is out.
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The Discovery comes with a pump:
http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-discovery-air-rifle-combo.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-discovery-air-rifle-combo.html)
Surf a little and you can usually find that same setup for a little less.
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The 460 magnum is a powerhouse springer that isn't hard to manage. I find that mine isn't a rifle that I wanna sit at the bench all afternoon to cock&shoot a hundred times. They are fine for hunting tho. It is more nose heavy than the 48, but it stays on target well. I like mine overall. Check out Airgun Depot as they have deals on refurbs that are good as new most all of the time. Again, they don't last long when they come out. I have bought a few refurbs and never a problem...but then, you are buying a quality to start with, so don't worry about refurb vs new. I found out that many times it's more "buyers remorse excuses" than a problem w/ the rifle. So they're fine, but can't be sold as "new" any more
1911 Range Officer:
You are correct in that quality pumps for a PCP costs more than the start out pump they provide you in their package. I don't know what a Hill Pump costs today, but I know they aren't cheap.
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Thanks for everyone's input thus far. I'll take a 2nd look at the discovery, I think it will be it or the RWS 460 mag. The Discovery would cost less, and if it's really not that big of a deal to pump compared to 3000psi fill air rifles...
Refilling a low volume, low pressure airgun, like the Disco, with a hand pump is not really hard or exhausting, unless there are underlying health problems. I regularly pump up 3x Crosman PCP pistols (2x 1701Ps and a 1720T carbine to ~3000psi each) and get ~150 total plinking/pesting shots (slightly tweaked factory settings) from less than a hundred strokes. Also occasionally hand pump a coupla vintage Daystates and B50 clone, Mrod and Disco. Where the pistols take ~30 pumps each, the larger tubed rifles can take more than twice that number. Am a 'Scottish build' and not particularly 'fit', 63 and a half y/o.
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My Friend,
If you're looking for a springer for hunting, then I can enthusiastically suggest the Xisico XS28M from MM over at Flying Dragon. I got one fully tuned, with a Leapers 4-16x50 AO for well under the price point you've stated. It's a clone of the Diana 350 Magnum, the workmanship is solid, but it's not so expensive or fancy that you don't want to take it out in the field. It hits like a hammer and is lights out accurate at 50 yards. It took some getting used to, but once I found the 'groove', (and the pellet it liked) I never looked back. AWESOME gun!
Best Regards,
Butch
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better
I had a .177 Stoeger X10 that, after a proper debur and lube, with a CDT trigger, pushed about 13 fpe with no noticeable change in poi regardless of the placement of my hands on the stock. I could shoot 5 pellets from 5 different positions and keep them inside a inch at 20 yards no problems. I am saying, with ease. I could drill the bottom of a soda can all day ane i mean literally all day long with zero effort shooting that gun. This was a $70 chinese gun from pawn shop.
I also had a X20S that I did all I could to boost power, which touched 17 fpe fresh but wore back down to 14-15 after a couple days of shooting. It went from lights out to more hold sensitive than my WTM for almost no real gain in power.
A "properly adjusted" spring gun that isn't pushed to it's limits is a pretty sweet shooting gun. I would bet the difference between a 11 fpe U.K. spec gun and the same gun just barely pushing passed the 13 fpe mark can be equally as sweet.
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better
Diplomatic answer: Some springers are easier than others, to shoot accurately.
And: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0)
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better
Diplomatic answer: Some springers are easier than others, to shoot accurately.
And: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0)
well I will have to get rid of the 15 that I have to find one that shoots into a tiny area at 30 yds no matter what the holds. Or can it be a case where you never hear of the many misses and wounded but only the few hits?
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better
IMHO......IF the springer is consistent in the first place then it requires much practice to get repeated results under field conditions. One tool I use is the 100 bull targets I've made up for practice shooting one pellet per bull. Here is an example shot with my .177 HW95 upstairs at 18 yards hunter class field target style.
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/262016/1453860837_173702582_100bTargetJan262016.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=82680)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I do almost all my shooting HFT style (sittin' on a bucket restin' the gun on cross sticks) which includes field target and outdoor practice out to 53 yards (max shooting distance of my back yard shooting lane. Shooting upstairs at 18 yards (max available) allows practice in calm conditions so only my only concern is the shooting form.
Not long ago I started shooting a target and the poi was orbiting the aim point but I made the assumption that I was simply having a bad shooting session. Here is the target shot.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/152016/1452954293_2135471968_ViperAeonGroups.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=82326)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Notice the "zeroing group" and the way the pellets were orbiting around bulls #1 through #23. Well, just for grins I removed my scope and mounted an old Aeon scope. I roughly zero'd Aeon and then shot the 10 shot group above bull #35. LOL.....pulled the Aeon off the HW95, called Trenier where I had bought Optisan Viper scope a couple years ago, sent in the old Viper and had a brand new one on the doorstep a little over a week later and my HW95 is "wearing" the new replacement 3-12x44 Viper with the SCB reticle. I do have to put in a plug for Trenier and their prompt courteous customer service!
Anywhoo.......IMHO, "jumpers" which I like to call my R9 & HW95 even though they're tuned to only about 12.5fpe (CPLs at 850fps) require a lot of practice (for me anyway) and the shooting form must be exactly the same with each shot which is the purpose of shooting the hour long 100 bull targets on occasion!
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I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too. Hope this helps and good luck!
never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better
IMHO......IF the springer is consistent in the first place then it requires much practice to get repeated results under field conditions. One tool I use is the 100 bull targets I've made up for practice shooting one pellet per bull. Here is an example shot with my .177 HW95 upstairs at 18 yards hunter class field target style.
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/262016/1453860837_173702582_100bTargetJan262016.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=82680)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I do almost all my shooting HFT style (sittin' on a bucket restin' the gun on cross sticks) which includes field target and outdoor practice out to 53 yards (max shooting distance of my back yard shooting lane. Shooting upstairs at 18 yards (max available) allows practice in calm conditions so only my only concern is the shooting form.
Not long ago I started shooting a target and the poi was orbiting the aim point but I made the assumption that I was simply having a bad shooting session. Here is the target shot.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/152016/1452954293_2135471968_ViperAeonGroups.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=82326)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Notice the "zeroing group" and the way the pellets were orbiting around bulls #1 through #23. Well, just for grins I removed my scope and mounted an old Aeon scope. I roughly zero'd Aeon and then shot the 10 shot group above bull #35. LOL.....pulled the Aeon off the HW95, called Trenier where I had bought Optisan Viper scope a couple years ago, sent in the old Viper and had a brand new one on the doorstep a little over a week later and my HW95 is "wearing" the new replacement 3-12x44 Viper with the SCB reticle. I do have to put in a plug for Trenier and their prompt courteous customer service!
Anywhoo.......IMHO, "jumpers" which I like to call my R9 & HW95 even though they're tuned to only about 12.5fpe (CPLs at 850fps) require a lot of practice (for me anyway) and the shooting form must be exactly the same with each shot which is the purpose of shooting the hour long 100 bull targets on occasion!
Come on Ed I was just talking of us ordinary humans lol. You are one of the best shots here understand the guns inside out work on them like tuner and practice your brains out not on a bench. still cant figure if you bring your bucket and sticks while hunting pretty easy to do if squirel hunting not really have to walk that far. cant believe you had trouble with the viper being your rifles are not thumpers. what scopes have you had that really held up?
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Hang those targets up in an oak tree and give it a shot.
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A few replies...........
"You are one of the best shots here"
LOL....like most shooters I have good, bad, and embarrassing shooting sessions but I have found that my shot placements have gotten better by shooting the 100 bull targets at only 18 yards. Anywhoo......your belief that I'm some sort of "expert marksman" is countered by some of my field target match performances like the next to last place score I "won" at the 2015 National Field Target match in Ennice, NC. LOL....here are the piston gun hunter class standings at that match.........
xxxxx xxxx TX200 JSB 7.9 Optisan 3-12 Hunter Piston 38 1st
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx HW97 CPL 7.9 Hawke Sidewinder 4x12 Hunter Piston 34 2nd
xxx xxxxxxx HW95 CPL 7.9 Optisan viper 3-12 Hunter Piston 30
Ed Canoles HW95 CPL 7.9 Optisan Viper 3-12 Hunter Piston 27
xxx xxxxxxxxx HW-97KT H&N FTT 8.64 Optisan Viper 3-12 Hunter Piston 26
LOL.....hitting 27 out of 120 shots is indeed one of those EMBARRASING scores for me, however I do feel that it might perhaps be an encouragement to shooters new to field target!
"still cant figure if you bring your bucket and sticks while hunting"
If I'm stalking squirrels in the early season when the trees still have leaves I take my cross sticks along after extending the legs. This gives me a good walking stick to help get my low crotch over a barbed wire fence or to have a quick gun support if I'm not close to a "resting tree". If I spread the legs on the cross sticks and kneel on one knee before resting the gun I have a kind of tripod setup to help steady my hold. When still hunting in the late season when the trees are bare and it's difficult to stalk I usually also take my "sittin' bucket" along and shoot similar to the way I shoot at a field target match or upstairs with a couple differences. The first difference is that I'll set up the bucket (filled with snacks and a drink) at the base of a large tree so I can rest my back against the tree trunk. The next thing I do is to rest the gun on my shortened cross sticks and get a "scope rangefind" on all trees within 40 yards. Now I know that when a squirrel crosses the "magic 40 yard line" it's time to set up for the shot preferring that the squirrel gets within my 30 yard zero distance if at all possible.
"cant believe you had trouble with the viper being your rifles are not thumpers"
Well.....I guess it's all a matter of the individual scope and the amount of shooting done. Here is a pic of the stack of 100 bull targets (well...some were 50 bull) I shot upstairs at 18 yards from 2014 to 2016...........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/452016/1455503326_353637340_TargetsFeb142016.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=83557)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
This doesn't even include the prep for field target matches at my back yard shooting lane, the just for fun outdoor shooting sessions, or the matches themselves. So far I haven't found a single scope that didn't need some warranty work after a few years except my old $80 4-16x40 Center Point that I bought at WalMart but I really don't use that scope very often.
Anywhoo.....Most of my shooting is preparing for field target matches and shooting the matches themselves so I do have a backup scope handy if needed. I found that the 3-12x44 Optisan Viper to be a very robust scope and the one sent in under warranty had 10s of thousands of shots under it's belt so I was satisfied with the way it held up! Years ago I tried a Weaver V16 and within the year it developed a "floppy reticle" so it went in for warranty work. After it was returned it lasted only 6 months before the lower leg of the reticle literally snapped in two mounted on my .177 R9. I bought a 6x Burris compact scope and it was also trashed by the R9. Even my high dollar 4-16x40 Bushnell Elite 4200 AO developed "loose innerds" after a few years and when it was sent into Bushnell they couldn't repair it because the scope was discontinued and parts were unavailable.
Anywhoo.......springers are tough on optics which is why it's good to buy a robust scope with a good warranty, especially if you shoot 10,000+ pellets per year!
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The HW95 is a great deal at 299.00.
If you want more then the 460 is sweet. Both have good triggers and the 460 is about 24 fpe vs 14 fpe of the hw95. The 460 is my favorite magnum air rifle. It feels more like a firearm in the hands and it was much easier to shoot accurately than my Hatsan 125.
Sweat deal on the Uramax 460 - $341.00 at Grabagun. http://grabagun.com/umarex-usa-460-magnum-hdwd-22-pellet.html?source=igodigital (http://grabagun.com/umarex-usa-460-magnum-hdwd-22-pellet.html?source=igodigital)
Same gun as the RWS 460 with less warranty.
Now comes the Discovery. It's shorter and lighter to carry, and hits what your aiming at without caring how you hold it or what you sue for a rest. Pumping gets old when you shooting over and over testing pellets and such, but not bad hunting unless 16-20 shots is not enough.
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"Now comes the Discovery"
Interesting because this week I received a phone call from my brother who still lives in West Virginia and has been shooting his R9s since I sold him one of mine years ago.
For squirrel hunting he decided to get a PCP and was asking about the Marauder. Being a "springer only guy" I have little practical knowledge and no first hand knowledge of PCPs so while on the phone with my brother I looked up the Marauder on the AoA web sight. My brother was only interested in .177 cal since he's also retired, the .177 pellets were a lot cheaper than .22, and he's successfully taken well over a thousand tree squirrels (both grey and fox) with his .177 R9. His thinking that a .177 Marauder shooting 10.5 grain CP heavies would be perfect for a day of squirrel hunting. He mentioned that the idea of a relatively quick second shot with little arm waving (compared to his R9) would be beneficial, and he felt that as long as he could get a couple dozen full power shots before needing a "top off" he would have more than enough shots to take a 5 squirrel WV limit. He also liked the idea that the Marauder was moderated so it would be relatively quiet when shooting.
Anywhoo....the Maurauder specs on the AoA site looked very good to me (a PCP dummy) and I mentioned this to my brother. The next day (last Saturday) I received another phone call from Henry and he had ordered a wood stocked .177 Marauder with a hand pump and fitting necessary for hookup and I think he spent about $750. Sounds like a lot of money to me and when I asked why he didn't simply use his rimfire his reply was "have you priced .22 rimfires lately???"
Guess I'll find out how his new PCP with pump works out in a few weeks but for me the "coin is too much" and I'd rather not be bothered with the care and feeding of a PCP!
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300 dollar hw95 at aoa no doubt. I can't not reccomend it
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300 dollar hw95 at aoa no doubt. I can't not reccomend it
I hate to say it but he is right. You can't beat that deal, if you're looking for a nice springer to hunt with, the HW95 is one of the best and you can't beat that deal. Only thing is, if you have any issues with the rifle, you're stuck with it. Given, people are more apt to complain of misgivings than to make time give credit for a positive experience. But I have never, not ever, read of AoA taking good care of a customer in regards to a spring rifle. I don't necessarily believe they are even that bad, I think the staff they allow to deal with spring guns are incompetent. They are probably fine to deal with regards to PCP's, but I still wouldn't give them my business unless it was a heck of a deal.
That said, I guarantee they look at these forums. To see the same stories I've seen and never address them is pretty shady.
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If I didn't already have 3x HW95/R9s and 3x HW85/R10s in various calibers, I'd be all over that deal! Occasionally consider it anyway, after reading about Ed's experience with the newer model.
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RWS/Diana 460 is an excellent field rifle-plenty of power and accurate. If you can carry it around, the Walther LGU accuracy is tough to beat and has enough power for closer range hunting.
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300 dollar hw95 at aoa no doubt. I can't not reccomend it
I hate to say it but he is right. You can't beat that deal, if you're looking for a nice springer to hunt with, the HW95 is one of the best and you can't beat that deal. Only thing is, if you have any issues with the rifle, you're stuck with it. Given, people are more apt to complain of misgivings than to make time give credit for a positive experience. But I have never, not ever, read of AoA taking good care of a customer in regards to a spring rifle. I don't necessarily believe they are even that bad, I think the staff they allow to deal with spring guns are incompetent. They are probably fine to deal with regards to PCP's, but I still wouldn't give them my business unless it was a heck of a deal.
That said, I guarantee they look at these forums. To see the same stories I've seen and never address them is pretty shady.
A consideration for me is the cost of shipping a whole HW95 back to a vendor for warranty work and since the HW95 isn't "rocket science", and there aren't any parts that can't be replaced by an owner with moderate mechanical skills............I've learned to simply "do my own" particular tweaks and lubing even knowing that I've voided the warranty! LOL....I can swap out a HW95 spring and reassemble in less than 1/2 hour so it really isn't a big deal.
Anywhoo....after buying, tuning and selling over a dozen .177 R9s over the years I haven't found a bad one yet so I'm really not too concerned about the need to return one but I do need to replace springs and perhaps the piston seal every few years which is why these items are considered "consumables"! LOL....here is my HW95 completely broken down straight from the box after and initial "function test" and before the degrease and re-lubing with Krytox GPL205.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3582015/1451055537_903997116_HW95Disassembly.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=81639)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3582015/1451055549_1412477055_HW95InternalLube2.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=81640)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
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Ed, I agree 100% regards to fixing vs. shipping a springer. Once you learn to work on them, unless you want to return it for a full refund (and unless that is an option) then they are pointless to ship for work. With the exception of a handful of very good tuners, no one else will do work on these guns that is any better than your own. Plus the cost of the very best parts/kits and shipping is probably the same or less than the price of shipping a gun two ways.
The problem is, not everyone knows how to work on them, or is even willing to learn. Of course, that probably doesn't apply to anyone on this forum ;) Whether by necessity or not, we tear them down and fix them up eventually.