GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: Ragboat on February 10, 2016, 02:45:50 PM
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I have been think about getting a HW 30 and would like to know what Williams Peep sight is being
used on them? Does the front sight that they come with have to be changed.
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Will probably want a different peep setup, front and rear, depending on your intended use of the HW30.
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I use the Williams FP-AG-TK on all of our HWs with the factory globe sight, nothing else needed. Works fine with the factory globe. It will also work with the HW77K and the factory front blade sight. Note that on some rifles, there is a chance of running out of adjustment to the left on windage. On all of mine, though, I have just enough adjustment.
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I tried a Williams FP-AG-TK on my HW95 with the factory front blade. The windage was just about dead on in the center of its' travel, but I ran out of travel lowering it enough and with it bottomed out, at 10 meters, was still around 1" high. Guess I might have to bend the barrel a little. For now, I went back to the factory rear sight and that is about two clicks from being bottomed out for a 6 o'clock hold but is usable. The factory sights are pretty nice actually.
Ted
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I have the Williams FP-AG; not the FP-AG-TK (FP series, "AG" meaning airgun and "TK" meaning target knobs) on my HW30S. It works perfectly with the stock front sight. I like the non-target knob version with the adjustment screws a little better. It looks a little cleaner mounted on smaller airguns and I don't find the target knobs to be that much more convenient.
Do a search for Williams gunsights.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-8dkjkmj/0/L/CA_01251613080356-L.jpg)
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I'm gonna have to get one with that stock! ^^^^^
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I tried a Williams FP-AG-TK on my HW95 with the factory front blade. The windage was just about dead on in the center of its' travel, but I ran out of travel lowering it enough and with it bottomed out, at 10 meters, was still around 1" high. Guess I might have to bend the barrel a little. For now, I went back to the factory rear sight and that is about two clicks from being bottomed out for a 6 o'clock hold but is usable. The factory sights are pretty nice actually.
Ted
Had a similar problem with these on a Crosman 1701P and made a taller front post for one. Had to get the FP-GR, low line of sight, rear to make it work with the stock lower front post on the other one. Also have used a coupla different 'match' style rears, like the Avanti and Venturi, on HW rifles without having to change the fronts.
https://www.pyramydair.com/accessories/open-sights/rear (https://www.pyramydair.com/accessories/open-sights/rear)
Disclaimer: These setups were/are for field use, not 10 meter stuff. Don't need/care for the big 'TK' knobs either.
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Good point on the target knobs. My shooting is almost exclusively target work over a variety of distances, so I find the knobs useful. Have lost the little allen head locking screws on the target models, out in the field, though, by not keeping them tightened down, so the more basic model that locks with screws might be best for field use. On the other hand, do not over-torque any of the screws on these Williams peeps. Doesn't take much to strip them. Ask me how I know.
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I tried a Williams FP-AG-TK on my HW95 with the factory front blade. The windage was just about dead on in the center of its' travel, but I ran out of travel lowering it enough and with it bottomed out, at 10 meters, was still around 1" high. Guess I might have to bend the barrel a little. For now, I went back to the factory rear sight and that is about two clicks from being bottomed out for a 6 o'clock hold but is usable. The factory sights are pretty nice actually.
Ted
+1 The HW95 sights are as good as can be for as far as I can see. I'm temped to try the Williams system of peeps, but I just can't see it increasing the distance that I could accurately shoot the rifle with an open sight setup.
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BG, stock HW sights are pretty good, and I don't doubt that you're a good shot, but I'd bet money you would shoot better with a peep sight.
I have gone from factory rear to peep sights on at least a half-dozen rifles, and the result was always a lot better. I can hit wine corks at 30 yards with my LGV and peeps; with the stock sights it was hard to make out the target and the front sight. Something about the peep makes the target a more clear image, a least for this old guy with aging eyes.
Somewhere on the 'net there's an explanation as to why peeps are better--something about having to use three planes of focus vs. only two with a peep. You look through the peep, but you should pretty much ignore it.
Edit: Except for the R7 which requires a scope, all the guns in my sig below have peeps mounted.
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I tried a Williams FP-AG-TK on my HW95 with the factory front blade. The windage was just about dead on in the center of its' travel, but I ran out of travel lowering it enough and with it bottomed out, at 10 meters, was still around 1" high. Guess I might have to bend the barrel a little. For now, I went back to the factory rear sight and that is about two clicks from being bottomed out for a 6 o'clock hold but is usable. The factory sights are pretty nice actually.
Ted
+1 The HW95 sights are as good as can be for as far as I can see. I'm temped to try the Williams system of peeps, but I just can't see it increasing the distance that I could accurately shoot the rifle with an open sight setup.
Aging eyesight has lead me to experiment with methods of making open sights more visible when used in the varying/contrasty lighting/shadowing conditions encountered in the great outdoors. First efforts were to paint the front post with dayglow orange or white. This helped quite a bit for several years until the rear sight started to disappear. So to define and highlight its top edge and notch, I started painting a slim band of hi-vis color on it, ending up with the combo of a bright orange on the rear and flat white on the front. This worked well throughout my 50s. Into my 60s, even this setup wasn't working quite as well as I liked. Next step was to try a ghost ring type rear. Had the same old problem of the disappearing in the contrast rear sight, so added some orange to the ghost ring and, VIOLA!, it is now my favorite sighting system with near unobstructed view of and fast target acquisition plus easily managed hold over sight pictures. Pics when I get home.
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Bill,
I have heard others praise the peep sight systems, so I don't doubt your abilities. I'm not a good shot. I'm an average shot, and my eyes aren't getting any better as I age. I have gotten back to the open sights on the HW95 out of necessity because the rifle was either breaking scopes or just not holding zero. I got tired of playing with parallax and zero all the time, messing with mounts and scopes endlessly.
I spent great deal of time finding the best hold and sight picture with the HW95's sights, and I think I was doing pretty well. Had 7 good kills on squirrels out to 30-35 yards..most were in the 20-25 yard range which is typically what I encounter. Lately, I have been having some accuracy issues with the HW95 (erratic shooting and shifting POI) that I am working through now. I did buy a UTG scope that I am going to put on the HW95 just to see what the POI issues might be. I'm not sure if the scope will live on the HW95 or a NP2 that I have.
I have enjoyed the open sights for the quick target acquisition and the ability to shoot quickly at game, especially when you come up on some that are close to you. I was constantly missing squirrels and rabbits when I was 20 feet away with a scope b/c I would not adjust to parallax, etc. I would just forget in the heat of the moment.
Not so with the open sight system. 5 feet or 30 yards, I know where I am hitting. So, I'd like to try the peep sights, but they may have to wait a bit. Just spent $145 for the scope and rings and the Williams peeps are $80, so it adds up.
Yrok, please do post your setup. I've not considered a ghost ring on an AG. Not sure how to do that with the HW95, but I'd like to see what you have.
I like using scopes and have killed plenty of small game that way, but I just have to say that open sights within a certain range are pretty good if you practice and your rifle is performing as expected.
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Sorry for the delay but the night shift was tuff!
Here is an example of the Williams peep, without the screw-in aperture, on one of my old Sheridans and another example of the same type setup but dovetail mounted on a Crosman 1701P. Yes, this works just as well on pistols. For me anyway.
Have made multiple successful shots at 65 yards (laser ranged) with these two once the holdover sight picture was established and repeated while resting the guns on a dock railing.
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee364/anuthabubba/orange%20ghost%20ring%20white%20post%202.jpg) (http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee364/anuthabubba/tres%20pistolas%20dos%202.jpg) (http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee364/anuthabubba/new%20sight%20amp%20grips.jpg)
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Want to add that the behavior you describe is very unusual with HW springers, including 95s, in my experience with dozens of examples and most all models of that brand since about 1980. Has it been 'worked' on or damaged in some way? Have you checked the stock screws?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0)
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Terry,
Thanks for posting the pictures of your Williams sight setup. That looks very clear, bright, and easy to pick up. If I go that route (Can't spend the $90 right now), that looks like a great way to make it work even better.
As for my HW95 issue, yea, I'm not sure what to think. The weather has been pretty terrible here so I've not been able to get more trigger time with it and work it out. I did discover that one of my stock screws is about to bottom out on the cocking arm, so I have to deal with that issue for certain. I'll probably add an additional washer to the stock hole to increase the distance the screw has to travel. I actually just posted that issue to get some suggestions on the best way to correct it.
The rifle has not been worked on, and I have not opened it myself. All I did was clean the barrel to remove the factory grease (just GooGone and gentle pull-throughs with Ballistol to finish), and lubricate the cocking linkage and pivot bolt area. So, I don't think I did anything that would effect accuracy.
It may be as simple as not finding the right pellet for this rifle yet. I've had pretty good luck with JSB 14.3 gr and 16 gr as well as H&N FTT's of the 5.53 head size.
It may be just a matter of my shooting style and finding the best setup for the AG. I'm not really a bench rest kind of guy who is looking to shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards (I wish!). I'm more of a, I want a deadly accurate gun out to 30 yards for squirreling and hunting rabbits. I need that accuracy for humane kills. After that, it's all bonus to me. I certainly enjoy shooting spinners and paper targets, but probably not to the extent to a lot of guys that are really, really proficient with springers.
I'm new to this, so I know my limitations and I know that a degree of this erratic shooting is probably me, no doubt. That being said, it was grouping better earlier. I'll get there. I just hope there is nothing glaringly wrong with the gun.
Thank you again for posting the pics. Looks like a nice sight picture to use on a regular basis.
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+1 The HW95 sights are as good as can be for as far as I can see. I'm temped to try the Williams system of peeps, but I just can't see it increasing the distance that I could accurately shoot the rifle with an open sight setup.
The thing with a receiver mounted peep which helps to improve accuracy is the change in sight radius. With a break barrel you will often nearly double your sight radius. Another point worth mentioning when it comes to peeps is that looking through the aperture helps your eye focus and you actually do see the front sight in sharper focus. I've never had one on a break barrel but I like the one I have on my D48.
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I have the Williams FP-AG; not the FP-AG-TK (FP series, "AG" meaning airgun and "TK" meaning target knobs) on my HW30S. It works perfectly with the stock front sight. I like the non-target knob version with the adjustment screws a little better. It looks a little cleaner mounted on smaller airguns and I don't find the target knobs to be that much more convenient."
Same on my HW30s.
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Thanks for that info Michael. I hadn't thought about the sight radius, but you are correct in that it is very short on a break barrel setup like the Weihrauch's and other German manufacturers.
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Thanks for that info Michael. I hadn't thought about the sight radius, but you are correct in that it is very short on a break barrel setup like the Weihrauch's and other German manufacturers.
The M16 had two peeps one was for long range and the other was for 300 meters or less. When I qualified with that rifle the standard silhouette was about half the width of the front post at 450 meters. I was young then and I had pretty good eyes. I didn't miss one. A good peep is as good as a 1x scope for sure.
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I'm about certifiable when it somes to aperture sights, I thoroughly love them.
Have had a love-hate relationship with the Williams units on airguns over the years, though. Nice clean simple design, but the fiddly and fragile attachment bar for the FP-AG and FP-GR series is just awful. (FWIW: greatest sporting peep in the history of the planet is the Parker-Hale PH 16 series, seen on a Webley Mk 3 in my avatar pic. A true pity those weren't made for more guns!)
I've come to love using match aperture sights on sporting rifles. You can find an old HW or Anschutz unit on Ebay, etc., for little more than the cost of a new Williams, if you are patient and knowwhat you're looking for. The sights are physically bigger, so you lose the advantage of a good clean view all around the target, but they are in another league entirely in terms of durability and precision.
Another advantage of a good match diopter is the ability to take aftermarket accessories. All serious target shooters use an adjustable-opening iris eye disk of some kind, and you can also get a glare-cutting polarizer, colored filters, and even a 1.5x magnifying lens built into these units.
Here's an old HW 55 target rifle (exactly the same sight/scope grooves as the HW 30), with a vintage Anschutz steel "Univeral" sight, and an equally old Gehmann iris.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/kyofu2/hw%2055%20cm%20878112/DSC02708_zpsb01e0be0.jpg)
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I could not agree more with Mike Driskill. He turned me on to precision Diopter sights over a year ago. I consider him an expert with all types of these sighting types. Heck, he can even tell you the complete history of practically all the manufacturers, both current and long ago out of business. I find the Williams peep on my light weight woods carry guns really benefit from a Merit adjustable iris, in leau of the standard one that comes with the sight. You can also obtain a nice low light iris from Williams that is similar to the ghost sight mentioned above to enhance shooting at dusk.
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Wow, those look great. Wish more companies would make sights like that. Is Williams the only company that makes new peep sight systems for AG's?
Also, for the HW95 what model/product is recommended from the William's offerings?
Thanks.
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I could not agree more with Mike Driskill. He turned me on to precision Diopter sights over a year ago. I consider him an expert with all types of these sighting types. Heck, he can even tell you the complete history of practically all the manufacturers, both current and long ago out of business. I find the Williams peep on my light weight woods carry guns really benefit from a Merit adjustable iris, in leau of the standard one that comes with the sight. You can also obtain a nice low light iris from Williams that is similar to the ghost sight mentioned above to enhance shooting at dusk.
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Thanks for the kind words Scott, but you give me way too much credit. In my case it's more like "obsession" than "wisdom!"
:D
One more comment I might add--this is a particularly good time to find older match aperture sights on Ebay. There seem to be a bunch coming in from eastern European sources. Should you have any questions about compatibility, etc., feel free to give me a shout.