GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: yo1dog on February 09, 2016, 07:37:49 PM
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I got 2 RWS 34s .22 from pyramid air.
The first one had a bent barrel (~1" low at 15 yards with the sights as high as they would go). But besides that, it operated great. Defiantly no squeaking or crunching when compressing the mainspring and no twang or vibrations. I sent it in for a replacement and also got their 10 for $10 service (they will shoot 10 test rounds before shipping you the gun). I didn't want to risk getting another defective model and going through the hassle of another RMA so I figured the $10 was worth it.
30 (yes 30) days later my replacement rifle gets to my house. I opened the box and knew there was going to be trouble. The gun was dripping with oil and lube. There was beads of the stuff all over the file, both on the outside and from what I could see inside as well. I wiped off the excess on the outside and went to fire my first shot.
The first thing I noticed was it seemed much harder to get the breach open than the first RWS 34 I had. Then, while compressing the mainspring there was loud and awful squeaking and crunching sounds along with a vibration I could feel. Those sounds were defiantly not there on my first RWS 34. Then I fired the thing and it felt like it it had more twang than the first.
I have put 100-150 pellets through it and there has been no change.
Did the ridiculous amount of the lube cause these problems? Should I just send it back for a refund and buy from someone else?
I assume that whoever fired the 10 test shots was responsible for over lubing it and causing the problems. At least, I would hope I didn't pay $10 for someone to fire a clearly defective gun and send it to me anyway...
They included the velocities from the 10 test shots and I thought the change in speed was weird but I don't know much about it:
1. 906.60
2. 886.74
3. 847.09
4. 773.43
5. 757.08
6. 753.21
7. 759.64
8. 751.86
9. 757.79
10. 749.67
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We can call this bad advice and ignore it.
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Mike,
Welcome to the GTA! ;D
The chrono numbers look like it settled right in, but the honking is likely due to it being bone dry in the compression chamber. If it shoots well it will be a judgment call for sure. There are so many considerations but first and foremost I would evaluate it with several different decent quality pellets and see how well it will group.
Crunching and vibration does worry me, but I doubt it will shoot well if it has a broken spring or some other major issue. If you have 30 days return policy on it I'm certain should you decide to evaluate it we can advise you along the way ;)
All I can say is just check to make sure the screws are tight, and inspect it as well as you can (slot looking at the spring, etc.), and shoot it some to see if the noise goes away. Just don't wait beyond the return policy time limit or you will get stuck with a fight on your hands getting Umarex to honor the warranty...
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Just don't wait beyond the return policy time limit or you will get stuck with a fight on your hands getting Umarex to honor the warranty...
A BIG +1 to this
Mike,
A better place to post this might be in the German Gate. I suspect the mods will move the thread...
That aside, these RWS guns typically come dry as a bone. They may or may not have a crunchy and/or honking spring. And twang is the name of the game with these guns! Also, these guns do tend to droop 12" to 24" when shooting at 20 yards and using a leveled scope.
Honestly, I think most people buy these guns with the intent to tune them with a kit from Vortek or ARH. This is what I did, and I've been very happy with my tuned rifle.
If you are not satisfied with your rifle, send it back and give it another shot. PyramydAir has OUTSTANDING customer service. I'm sure they'll take care of you.
Good Luck!
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Just don't wait beyond the return policy time limit or you will get stuck with a fight on your hands getting Umarex to honor the warranty...
A BIG +1 to this
I would call the company. I don't like the idea of a gun showing a chron tape that looks like that being shipped. Even if it is dieseling, for ten bucks, I want a tape that does not show dieseling. I don't want something that looks that bad to be shipped. If I was the vendor I would not ship that gun. I'd put ten more through it and if that tape looked right, I'd ship it with the second tape. If I pay someone ten or twenty bucks extra to test a gun before they ship it, I'd expect more for my money than a 30 day delay and a tape that looks like that one.
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Just don't wait beyond the return policy time limit or you will get stuck with a fight on your hands getting Umarex to honor the warranty...
A BIG +1 to this
Dude it was PA, not Umarex.
Umarex was who I was referring to. I praised PA in the body of my text.
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:o
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You obviously received a defective gun. I would return it, including a photocopy of the velocities - retain the original. I'm sure Pyramyd will make it right. A gun with that much deviation in velocity should never have shipped.
Yes, you can probably fix it with a new spring and seal. That will also void any Umarex warranty on the gun for future repairs.
Just call Pyramyd (don't email) for a return authorization. I don't know if you have thirty days from receipt of the original gun or from receipt of the most recent gun, but you need to talk to somebody at Pyramyd - the sooner the better.
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Just don't wait beyond the return policy time limit or you will get stuck with a fight on your hands getting Umarex to honor the warranty...
A BIG +1 to this
Dude it was PA, not Umarex.
Umarex was who I was referring to. I praised PA in the body of my text.
Apparently you are not getting it. The problem here has absolutely nothing to do with Umarex. The vendor here is PA. Umarex has nothing to do with this.
Michael,
Umarex USA provides the warranty support on RWS rifles. What [I think] Steve was trying to convey, is to get the issue resolved with PA while still within the return period. Otherwise, Mike would have to deal with Umarex, whose customer support can be described as a little spotty, to put it nicely.
No need for hostility! Trust me, I'm a huge fan of PA!
Thanks.
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I got 2 RWS 34s .22 from pyramid air.
I assume that whoever fired the 10 test shots was responsible for over lubing it and causing the problems. At least, I would hope I didn't pay $10 for someone to fire a clearly defective gun and send it to me anyway...
They included the velocities from the 10 test shots and I thought the change in speed was weird but I don't know much about it:
1. 906.60
2. 886.74
3. 847.09
4. 773.43
5. 757.08
6. 753.21
7. 759.64
8. 751.86
9. 757.79
10. 749.67
You are saying that the vendor sent you this gun and this included data from their ten for ten deal? Pyramid air did that? Dude, 150 fps difference in ten shots? Send that back and explain to the vendor that you want your ten dollars back as well. NO WAY any rifle should dump one hundred and fifty feet per second in ten shots... That isn't shooting in... that is just plain broke (%*&$%
Moreover that power plant should be shooting 70 fps faster than that... That gun was broke when they measured it.
I'm not sure I would say the gun was broken, just over-lubed. It looks like the first few shots were dieseling. After the lubes burned off, the rifle settled down to more normal speeds for a .22 RWS 34.
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We can probably ignore most all of my comments in this thread as I apparently can not tell the difference between a .177 and a .22... =)
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Just don't wait beyond the return policy time limit or you will get stuck with a fight on your hands getting Umarex to honor the warranty...
A BIG +1 to this
Dude it was PA, not Umarex.
Umarex was who I was referring to. I praised PA in the body of my text.
Apparently you are not getting it. The problem here has absolutely nothing to do with Umarex. The vendor here is PA. Umarex has nothing to do with this.
Michael,
Umarex USA provides the warranty support on RWS rifles. What [I think] Steve was trying to convey, is to get the issue resolved with PA while still within the return period. Otherwise, Mike would have to deal with Umarex, whose customer support can be described as a little spotty, to put it nicely.
No need for hostility! Trust me, I'm a huge fan of PA!
Thanks.
Understood, but in this case PA really dropped the ball. If the chrony numbers he posted are the ones he got from PA then PA is responsible for shipping him a bad gun. UMAREX maybe responsible for shipping a bad gun to PA, but PA chose to send it on down the line. That just is not right. PA should have shipped it back to UMAREX when they did that chrony test. My point is this, the further up the supply chain you get, the more responsibility you have. PA charged him ten bucks to shoot the gun ten times. The data they recorded showed the gun to be obviously broken AND they still shipped the gun...
Like I wrote in the post above, those first few high velocities were likely from dieseling. I AM NO EXPERT FOR SURE, but from what I've read here from others, dieseling sounds like the most likely culprit - especially since it appears there was an excess of lube used on the gun. I could totally be wrong, though. Hopefully others will chime in.
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Ok, NVM, I'm stupid. It is a .22... Probably not broken and I am an idiot. sux to be me right now... =) But yes I think you are right.
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The squeaking could be a dry piston seal but grinding is probably from metal to metal contact and could be a worse indicator. Might just be a dry barrel pivot area. How stiff is the barrel pivot?
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Like I wrote in the post above, those first few high velocities were likely from dieseling. I AM NO EXPERT FOR SURE, but from what I've read here from others, dieseling sounds like the most likely culprit - especially since it appears there was an excess of lube used on the gun. I could totally be wrong, though. Hopefully others will chime in.
You were right earlier, thanks - I did mean it would be best to evaluate the issue before it is no longer returnable to PA so as not to get stuck with a situation where Umarex would be involved. PA is great to deal with, and I even had taken more than 30 days to evaluate my Hatsan with their blessings and they were willing to accept it for return for an extended period. PA has been good to deal with.
But yes, agreed the numbers look like it was dieseling for sure.
It's a rough call second guessing PA's policy on the 10 for 10 issue. Some guns diesel once or twice and then only either on the first one or two shots after the manufacturer put it together, some will diesel on and off the first 100 rounds, some will diesel every first shot after it has been set down a certain way (for who knows how long).
Perhaps for those top notch guns that usually only diesel a few rounds or so ten for ten should be more like 20 ... but, then, what would they charge for the extra time, extra rounds, and possibly extra internal issues of deciding what is normal if the 20 didn't make sense any more than the first ten? What's worse, if they take more time, the 20 could straddle a break time and just setting the gun down ... well, you get the picture.
Ideally, one needs to evaluate how it shoots, how it sounds, if it smokes, if it detonates, how it groups, put some rounds through it, and then if possible if there is any doubt, chrono it. Unfortunately the best way (after chrono) to tell of something is wrong is to tear it down and look inside. Nobody, manufacturer, distributor, seller, warranty provider, etc. is going to trust the end user to do that - too easy to nick the seal, use the wrong lubes, use too much lube, or even over-tighten and strip something.
However, I think the biggest issue in instances like this are the pressure to make sure nothing is wrong when it could easily take longer than the return policy to make sure everything is going to settle in ok. Add to that the compounded problem that once your 30 day return is past, you are stuck dealing with a company that just plane flat out lies about what condition the gun was in if you send it them for warranty. All you have to do is start reading the BBB complaints against certain companies and you really start to wonder how any company can sell anything with such bad customer service and lack of integrity - and it's not a secret that as far as I'm concerned Umarex leads the pack when it comes to complete lack of integrity!
All I can suggest because I too am hard pressed to know what the best course of action for the OP is going to be, is to suggest finding someone local to help look at it or chrono it after firing it a bit (they would have the experience to better understand where the noise is coming from), or at least after firing it a bit --- try using the app Chrono Connect and post some new FPE FPS numbers before the 30 day return period is up.
Sorry, I know, long post :-[
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Clearly, I did not help with my earlier comments in the thread. I'd like to try to help now.
First, how does the gun shoot? If it will hold a quarter at 25 yards it is shooting well enough at this stage in break in.
I said the gun was broken. That wasn't right. I failed to recognize that you were talking about a .22. That error led me to believe the velocities for the gun were too low. They are not too low for a .22.
The other posters have given you good advice.
All that said, if I got a gun from PA with that chron tape and I did not like the sound of the power plant when I cocked it, the first thing I would do is shoot it for groups. That and that alone would decide if it was going back. I don't like a springer that makes noise while cocking but if it shoots well, that is the pudding, isn't it?
So the real question here is how does the gun shoot?
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So the real question here is how does the gun shoot?
+1