GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Shawn_D on January 30, 2016, 01:20:20 PM
-
Y'all,
After searching the archives*, I can see there are a few threads or individual posts that touch on the subject of support. Most are in the form of a comparison of brand vs. brand (1-v-1) or discussion of the support (or lack thereof) of a particular brand. Factors are the availability of manuals, factory replacement parts, aftermarket replacement parts, and aftermarket upgrade parts. For example: some brands have full manuals available, some have parts diagrams, some have neither; some brands will sell you replacement barrels, some will not; some brands have aftermarket barrels available, others do not; some brands have both factory and aftermarket seals available, or have one but not the other.
My goal is to be able to choose an air gun brand that I can work on and repair using factory or aftermarket parts and possibly upgrade with aftermarket parts. I want to stay away from brands that I'd have to send back to the manufacturer/rep to have it repaired once it's out of warranty.
So, using a scale of 1-5 (5 being the best) in the form of factory & aftermarket*, what say ye on this subject? Any comments on why you chose your ratings are welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Shawn
Note 1: This is not a query about specific combinations along the lines of "Does X make Y for brand Z?" (e.g. "Does CharlieDaTuna make a trigger for a Gamo Big Cat 1200?").
Note 2: My main area of interest is moderate-cost springer/gas piston rifles. A $$$$ PCP would be nice, but I'd rather spend that same $$$$ on AFR 180 heads for my '57 Chevy. ;)
*Terms used: factory, aftermarket, support, manual, components, barrel, and trigger (in various combinations of three terms max per search)
*I.E.: if Acme has moderate factory support and great aftermarket support, put down "Acme: factory 3; aftermarket 5. You can only get springs and seals from the factory, but can get aftermarket sights, seals, barrels, triggers, and stocks."
-
As far as support after the sale, warranty, manuals, and parts availability, there is no question in my mind - Crosman.
If you can live without the manual, support from Flying Dragon is excellent - and you can even get a lifetime warranty.
After market parts are readily available for Diana, Weihrauch, and Air Arms - none of which will require any trigger modifications.
Manuals and parts breakdowns are available for many of the European rifles as well - as are parts, possibly not from vendor.
I know nothing of parts availability or manuals for Hatsan - though the guns are popular.
Your question is pretty general and I've tried to keep the answer the same way.
-
What he said
-
Crosman does indeed provide good customer support. And if you buy their spring piston air rifles there is a very good chance you will need it! There is very good aftermarket support for HW and RWS/Diana rifles. I have purchased spare OEM parts from Umarex on several occasions with no issue although I have read of many people having problems with them.
Scotty
-
Thanks for the responses so far, Y'all. This is the type of information I'm looking for.
Your question is pretty general and I've tried to keep the answer the same way.
Yep, that was my intent -- to get a general comparison between brands.
-
As far as support after the sale, warranty, manuals, and parts availability, there is no question in my mind - Crosman.
If you can live without the manual, support from Flying Dragon is excellent - and you can even get a lifetime warranty.
After market parts are readily available for Diana, Weihrauch, and Air Arms - none of which will require any trigger modifications.
Manuals and parts breakdowns are available for many of the European rifles as well - as are parts, possibly not from vendor.
I know nothing of parts availability or manuals for Hatsan - though the guns are popular.
Your question is pretty general and I've tried to keep the answer the same way.
+1 to everything Roadworthy said with my own addition of Hatsan.
Easiest way to see what's available and what they'll sell you is to send them an e-mail and ask. They also list assorted seals for rifles on the Hatsan USA website. Aftermarket, you can get better piston seals from ARH, I have 4 sitting here. I think they also sell a couple springs that will fit and someone correct me if I'm wrong here but if you have the dimensions of yours, ARH might actually make you one. Trigger parts for the Hatsans so I'm told anyway, they won't sell you, you have to figure it out yourself or send the rifle to them. They seem to be very big on avoiding any potential liability issues.
There are also a couple of overseas websites that sell Hatsan parts if you're willing to wait a bit to get them including the gas rams.
Crosman is an hour drive if I want to...maybe someday I will and see about walk in service...lol
-
I have only dealt with Daisy and Flying Dragon.
I ordered some parts for my 853 from Daisy. They were cheap, CSR was knowledgeable and the parts got here fast.
Mike from Flying Dragon goes above and beyond with any requests or issues I've ever had. Everything he's sent me has been double boxed and packed well. He has the highest rating from me.
Taso
-
Hatsan you can get stocks and seals for.
That pretty much rounds out ALL you can get from them.
Aftermarket? You can get better seals and springs.
And that pretty much completes that option.
-
Thanks again for the input, Y'all. :)
-
Also who you buy from, and do they hold manufacturers accountable. A family store vs general sporting goods store.
-
Also who you buy from, and do they hold manufacturers accountable. A family store vs general sporting goods store.
Good point! However, local stores (both national chains and family stores) have very sparse selections for air guns. So, I'll be buying from catalog/internet dealers.
-
Also a good source of information on what to expect from a company is the BBB.
Of note from your post, I see you don't mention used or the pawn shops? We have a classifieds gate and other sites do as well - these can be very worthwhile parts sources, and some sold through these sites are tuned.
Once you settle in on a company you prefer, it might also be a good idea to visit that gate here to get more specifics and see if you think they will meet your expectations?
HTH! Welcome to the GTA Shawn!
-
HTH! Welcome to the GTA Shawn!
It does, and thanks!
-
AirForce and Benjamin both have huge aftermarket support.
-
For parts, prices, and parts breakdowns,
Daisy, and crosman.
Standing behind the product no matter what?
Flying dragon.
Next would be Airforce.
Umarex, supports the higher end guns.
But the co2 series (p08 Luger blowback, broomhandle Mauser and COLT single action)
They consider them disposable, if the internals break, no service out of the warranty period.
I had to source parts from a airsoft company for Luger and Mauser parts.
-
Crosman=5. Not only do they sell repair parts at a reasonable price, their customer service is excellent. I accidentally ordered a Trail NP XL gas ram for my Trail NP. I called them back to order the correct one. After letting them know about my mistake, they offered to exchange the one I ordered for the correct one.
-
Thanks for the continuing input, Y'all! It's looking that for my level of airgun experience and purpose of use, Crosman/Benjamin is probably going to suit my needs the best.
-
I have had good dealings with SR Industries (Beeman) in the past, however, after one very bad experience, I have never bought another.
I bought an R10 from where I was working. I hand picked a really nice stock.
When I got it home I pulled the stock off to clean up any debris commonly left from manufacturing.
I was then I noticed the problem. There are two metal pieces attached to the receiver, right where the front stock screws are fastened through the wood stock. One was bent way out, so bad that the stock had been damaged by the action being forced into it.
This can cause accuracy issues, so I out the gun back together and got it packed up to send back for repair or replacement.
Knowing they would have to take the gun apart, I did not tighten the rear action screw all the way. I want to mention my wife was by myself and helping me. We wrapped bubble wrap TIGHTLY around the gun, and used a LOT if shipping tape. Off the gun went. I had to call Beeman after not hearing from them for a while. When I did, they told me I had voided the warranty by removing the stock, so I would have to pay to repair the gun. After arguing with them. they decided to back off on that issue. Then.....they told me a stock screw had come off during shipping, and it had scratched up my stock. Now they wanted me to pay to fix the stock, still not addressing the original issue. I refused and had them return the gun to me. Now.....first of all, there is no way the stock screw had come out during shipping. It was in too far for that. second.....there is NO way the screw moved down the stock far enough to put scratches way down the stock. The bubble wrap was way too tight both around the stock screw, and around the entire gun. What happened is.....whoever undid the wrapping used a blade and scratched the stock. Then, finding the rear stock screw was loose, made up a story to cover their butt!!!! I sold the gun, with full disclosure, for a loss. I was called a liar and screwed by Beeman's service center.
Get this.......the store I worked was a Beeman 5 Star dealer, and I was the buyer for the hunting and fishing departments. If they screwed me, they would screw anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Y'all,
After searching the archives*, I can see there are a few threads or individual posts that touch on the subject of support. Most are in the form of a comparison of brand vs. brand (1-v-1) or discussion of the support (or lack thereof) of a particular brand. Factors are the availability of manuals, factory replacement parts, aftermarket replacement parts, and aftermarket upgrade parts. For example: some brands have full manuals available, some have parts diagrams, some have neither; some brands will sell you replacement barrels, some will not; some brands have aftermarket barrels available, others do not; some brands have both factory and aftermarket seals available, or have one but not the other.
My goal is to be able to choose an air gun brand that I can work on and repair using factory or aftermarket parts and possibly upgrade with aftermarket parts. I want to stay away from brands that I'd have to send back to the manufacturer/rep to have it repaired once it's out of warranty.
So, using a scale of 1-5 (5 being the best) in the form of factory & aftermarket*, what say ye on this subject? Any comments on why you chose your ratings are welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Shawn
Note 1: This is not a query about specific combinations along the lines of "Does X make Y for brand Z?" (e.g. "Does CharlieDaTuna make a trigger for a Gamo Big Cat 1200?").
Note 2: My main area of interest is moderate-cost springer/gas piston rifles. A $$$$ PCP would be nice, but I'd rather spend that same $$$$ on AFR 180 heads for my '57 Chevy. ;)
*Terms used: factory, aftermarket, support, manual, components, barrel, and trigger (in various combinations of three terms max per search)
*I.E.: if Acme has moderate factory support and great aftermarket support, put down "Acme: factory 3; aftermarket 5. You can only get springs and seals from the factory, but can get aftermarket sights, seals, barrels, triggers, and stocks."
you gotta post a pic of your belair ( my favorite car ) please tell me it's got white walls and a white top, and some muscle under the hood. Anyway as far as the question I would have to say crosman hands down ,while there guns can be defective they still get 5/5 and5/5 :D I believe mac1 produces a competition air rifle ( correct me if I'm wrong ) so does he count ;D
-
I was called a liar and screwed by Beeman's service center.
Get this.......the store I worked was a Beeman 5 Star dealer, and I was the buyer for the hunting and fishing departments. If they screwed me, they would screw anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for that warning -- that's a terrible experience! Completely without ethics on their part. FYI, due to the Moss-Magnuson Act, it's not legal for them to void the entire warranty because you removed the stock -- your actions only affect the warranty on the one piece and only if they affected it.
you gotta post a pic of your belair ( my favorite car ) please tell me it's got white walls and a white top, and some muscle under the hood. Anyway as far as the question I would have to say crosman hands down ,while there guns can be defective they still get 5/5 and5/5 :D I believe mac1 produces a competition air rifle ( correct me if I'm wrong ) so does he count ;D
Thanks for the input!
Yep, my Bel Air has a white top -- it's India Ivory over Dusk Pearl. No whitewalls, though -- I'm running 17x8 Torq Thrusts and 235/45-17 blackwalls (the recently-available radial whitewalls from Coker don't come in the sizes I want and they're the old BFG Radial T/A, which I have not had good experiences with; Diamond in NC does make low-profile whitewalls, but they're very expensive; no way would I ever run bias-ply tires ever again unless on a restoration). I won't get into the details, but it does have muscle under the hood -- a 355 which I built 20 years ago when the car was my daily driver and had an automatic, so I went for torque. On an eddy-current dyno (not an inertia dyno), it made at only 230hp at the wheels, but put out 400 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm! I've got a close-ratio 5-speed in it and will be putting on different heads, manifold, and cam and will probably make 70% more hp, but of course will no longer have all that torque. I must also mention that my grandparents were the original owners and it was my first car. :)