GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: JimR on January 22, 2016, 08:54:59 AM
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As some of you know, and have offered a lot of helpful info, I am having a hard time with my hatsan 95. It seems to like JSB 15.89g pellets best but like others, I can get 5-10 shots in 2 inches at 30 yards ( not very good ) then the groups will open up to 4 - 5 inches or more. The trigger screw works loose, I tighten it and start over. Will loctite void the warranty or PA's 30 day return policy ?
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Not positive but I don't think it should. Do you have a chrony? Thomasville isn't too far away from me I don't think.
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Hey JimR,
NO :D
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Ive had a 95 for a couple of months...with the supplied scope its on the money at 75 feet (maximum distance I have to shoot) ...using CHP....gun has stayed tight...I will say this way more gun than I need for backyard plinking (all I do)...from reading about these guns, IMHO I would send your gun back....good luck
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I can't imagine Hatsan would void the warranty because someone used locktite. However, I've cleaned those same threads thoroughly and applied locktite several times only to have that screw loosen up again. ::) I ordered a different type of fastener "locker"--Vibra-Tite VC3, from Amazon. Should be here today. Hoping that this will do the job! I'll report my findings after using it.
Ed
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Pull a patch or bore snake thru it every 4-5 shots to keep the oil out of the barrel till the gun blows it all out and keep the stock and scope tight.
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Thanks all. GD, no I don't have a chrony but I may get one. Thomasville's about a two hour drive I think. weather doesn't look too good for shooting this weekend but I might get a few rounds off. If I don't get consistent groups soon I'll send it back. This is a replacement for the first one that had a defective safety. I realize a lot of you like to tinker with guns but I do not and I have no patience with things that don't work as they should. I didn't expect R9 results but a 1'' group at 30 yards isn't asking too much is it ? starting to question Hatsan's quality control.
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I am not a tinker person at all either. :) I'm tied up for the next 2 Sundays; that's when I set up an indoor range at my business (we're closed on Sundays) It's only 20 yards but that's far enough to see what's happening plus it's indoors so cold/rain/dark don't matter. I'd love to meet up some time and try out another 95 for comparison's sake.
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GD, If I keep it maybe we could work that out sometime. I stay busy most of the time, especially weekends ( fishing, grandkids, motorcycling ) but it may be doable.
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That screw coming loose will change POI. Definitely get the heavy duty lock-tite not blue.
I don't know how hold sensitive the 95 is but do know the 125 takes some practice to shoot tight groups. Don't try to hold the gun, open palm if not resting on a bag and let the gun jump and dance all it wants during shot. It will do that same dance every time so shots group with excellent accuracy. If you actually hold or attempt to hinder guns movement you will not replicate that less movement shot every time. Let the gun dance.
If you've the Optima scope then you may be experiencing parallax at distance your shooting. Those Optima can be adjusted. Unscrew the end cover of scope. Opposite side you look through. Once that bezel is off the lens it right there and threaded. While looking through scope at distance you want to adjust it to, typical shooting distance or distance you expect to be shooting most game, slowly screw the lens and move head side to side as you do and hold scope still. The cross hairs will not move on target no matter how much you move head when properly adjusted. When turning if hairs move more then turn other direction until they stay still. Ta da! a fix parallax scope set to the distance you shoot. That will tighten up your groups.
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Just a wild guess here but on the refurbs, I'm guessing they don't replace the stock screws which means they've been in and out of the rifle a few times and Hatsan doesn't seem to use better quality screws. I've already replaced several of the front ones on my Edges, Ace Hardware has them in the hardware aisle.
You might consider taking that screw out, go to your local hardware store and get a brand new one, I think they're an M5 or M6 .50 pitch, you can match for sure in the store. Then clean everything and try loctiting the new screw in.
Just my 2 cents and usually generally worthless opinion but I would think it's worth trying a new .30 or .40 cent screw before returning the rifle.
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I can't imagine Hatsan would void the warranty because someone used locktite. However, I've cleaned those same threads thoroughly and applied locktite several times only to have that screw loosen up again. ::) I ordered a different type of fastener "locker"--Vibra-Tite VC3, from Amazon. Should be here today. Hoping that this will do the job! I'll report my findings after using it.
Ed
Good stuff! :o :o
-Y
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I can't imagine Hatsan would void the warranty because someone used locktite. However, I've cleaned those same threads thoroughly and applied locktite several times only to have that screw loosen up again. ::) I ordered a different type of fastener "locker"--Vibra-Tite VC3, from Amazon. Should be here today. Hoping that this will do the job! I'll report my findings after using it.
Ed
Good stuff! :o :o
Hope so. I've applied it to the screw that goes through the trigger housing as well as the front bolt and "nut". Should be able to try it out this weekend. Stay tuned.............
Ed
-Y
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I've got mine all apart on the dining room table while I finish gathering everything for my first tune. During inspection I've noted there was already LocTite on the screws.
Also, if the screws come loose with LocTite on them there IS an issue. Could be as simple as loose tolerance, but they should stay tight. Perhaps it would be something easy to find if it was disassembled for inspection.
I believe if Hatsan Customer Service is contacted they would want to take care of that issue, and most folks who've sent in their rifles seem satisfied with what they got back, but that's just my $.02. Mine was still in warranty and I didnt want to...
Hope these issues get worked out, basically I think there are issues but over all Hatsan makes a sturdy rifle. Soft screws as mentioned, yeah.
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Update : sending the 95 back today. Never did get it to group. Tried 7 different pellets, two scopes and open sights. Patience has run out. Really disappointed. After reading everything available, this gun was high on my list. Going to try a Walther Terrus .22 after being recommended by PA.
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The "Will X void my warranty on Y?" issue comes up frequently in other endeavors and the answer there applies to air guns as well. When someone modifies their new car or truck, they are often told by the dealer that the warranty is void overall because of the modification. However, because of the Moss-Magnuson act, this is not true. The modification only affects the warranty portion for the system modified, and only if the modification caused the failure.
So, if you install a new cat-back exhaust system on your car and the alternator goes bad, you cannot be denied warranty service for the alternator; however, if that cat-back exhaust system eliminates the after-cat oxygen sensor and the computer throws codes because of it, you can be denied warranty service for fixing the codes. If you install some ridiculously-colored headlight bulb and your air conditioner breaks, you cannot be denied warranty service for the air conditioner, but you could be denied warranty service for the headlights if you damaged the bulb sealing (or installed it improperly).
So, installing Loctite will not void the warranty on your air gun unless that Loctite is a direct cause of damage to the air gun.
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The "Will X void my warranty on Y?" issue comes up frequently in other endeavors and the answer there applies to air guns as well. When someone modifies their new car or truck, they are often told by the dealer that the warranty is void overall because of the modification. However, because of the Moss-Magnuson act, this is not true. The modification only affects the warranty portion for the system modified, and only if the modification caused the failure.
So, if you install a new cat-back exhaust system on your car and the alternator goes bad, you cannot be denied warranty service for the alternator; however, if that cat-back exhaust system eliminates the after-cat oxygen sensor and the computer throws codes because of it, you can be denied warranty service for fixing the codes. If you install some ridiculously-colored headlight bulb and your air conditioner breaks, you cannot be denied warranty service for the air conditioner, but you could be denied warranty service for the headlights if you damaged the bulb sealing (or installed it improperly).
So, installing Loctite will not void the warranty on your air gun unless that Loctite is a direct cause of damage to the air gun.
As I said, they come with LocTite ... so if returned after applying it, why would you expect an issue?
JimR - some folks send them back and get another. Why not give the 95's another shot?
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Methuselah, this was the second 95. First one had a defective safety. This one wouldn't group. Kind of left a bad impression. Hatsan gets pretty good reviews generally and I expect they make a good gun but the two examples I received just didn't measure up. Hopeful the Walther will be a good one.
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I have a 95 Vortex refurb and don't have any problems with the screws staying tight. I do have accuracy issues so I decided to forget the warranty and go ahead and tune it. Upon disassembly I found the factory piston seal was pretty loose. Piston would fall to the bottom on its own weight. Waiting for a ARH seal. I've got everything polished and ready to go. JM's seal is advertised as 5 thou oversized. Hoping that makes a difference.
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The Walther Terrus is a good choice, I don't have one but the reviews seem positive, might be a bit slow and loopy in .22 though , if you want a flat trajectory with more speed go with .177
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Methuselah, this was the second 95. First one had a defective safety. This one wouldn't group. Kind of left a bad impression. Hatsan gets pretty good reviews generally and I expect they make a good gun but the two examples I received just didn't measure up. Hopeful the Walther will be a good one.
JimR,
With only 11 posts, I read them all ... was wondering what was the issue with the safety, shipping damage, not cocking properly?
Irrelevant now - and yes, gist of what your saying is bad first impression, now bad 2nd impression and you HAVE put in some work. Just getting out and trying to put 50 rounds into better than a 5" group close up is work, frustrating work at that. Understood. Given the circumstances of your 11 posts, I agree with your reasoning to send it back. I am going to go down on record also saying you did read the reputation on these though, and it is not unexpected to get one, or more, of these 95's and 125's lacking in the QC department.
I'm saying that not to rib you but because others who do as you did to seek out the reputation and develop expectations on these gun models need to know ahead of time not everyone will get a good one out of the box. Most need barrel cleaning, maybe all. After cleaning, most will take time and rounds fired to stop dieseling, and some may even have a few detonations. THEN, it is my opinion you have no better than a 50/50% shot at getting a 125 that won't have issues either soon or certainly later on, maybe somewhat better odds on the 95's.
These lower-end Hatsan's can be very good and accurate guns with some extra work. There are folks reporting doing work on them and getting good groups at 50 yards.
So anyway, it's understandable if you bought it hoping to get a good one but knowing if you didn't you could return it. I doubt anyone would hold that against you in the slightest, me included. Just know that these can be very good, very decent FPE guns with some work, and if you are not too soured on your first introduction to these, perhaps it would be worthwhile to peruse the classified and try to find one that has had the QC work done after-the-fact (tuned)?
I only posted because others considering the purchase of these 95's or 125's should know they do have a chance to get a good one, and that if they are willing to tinker with it, they have pretty good odds they will have a really good, powerful, accurate shooter built like a tank for well under half the price of some top-end alternative guns. And make no mistake, even if you spend 5x more on one with a stellar reputation there are going to be some that left the factory with QC issues (though the percentages of that will be decidedly lower).
Sorry so long a post. I hope whatever you decide on getting it turns out to be something you get enjoyment out of! BTW, Walther is made in the same factory as the one you have... .
Welcome to the GTA Jim!
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It's discouraging when a product is touted as being 'the best under $200' and you get a lemon. So that means they're not ALL the best. How many/what percentage of people get one, have a problem, then come here and ask about it explaining their problem? Who knows. How many/what percentage of people get one have no issue with it and come here to say 'hey I got one and it works great'? Who knows but probably far fewer than those that have problems. In theory, my 95 being a refurb and then failing on me has been repaired at least twice via factory service and that doesn't include the factory tune job I paid over $100 for. Personally it stings a bit more when you've done the research, poured over reviews both written and videos for hours, make your best informed choice and end up w/a dud. That said when it comes to someone asking me, 'what should I get for $200?' I'll tell them what an awesome gun the 95 is, when it's working right.
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It's discouraging when a product is touted as being 'the best under $200' and you get a lemon. So that means they're not ALL the best. How many/what percentage of people get one, have a problem, then come here and ask about it explaining their problem? Who knows. How many/what percentage of people get one have no issue with it and come here to say 'hey I got one and it works great'? Who knows but probably far fewer than those that have problems. In theory, my 95 being a refurb and then failing on me has been repaired at least twice via factory service and that doesn't include the factory tune job I paid over $100 for. Personally it stings a bit more when you've done the research, poured over reviews both written and videos for hours, make your best informed choice and end up w/a dud.
Glen,
If many of these leave the factory with at least one QC issue, and you pay that factory extra to go over it - well, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable saying you should have the same expectations when they didn't get a substantial percentage of them right the first time. Understandably, if your issue is not wanting to void the warranty you are in a Catch 22 situation - you made a respectable decision.
Some refurbs (notably I believe Umarex) are just returns with new packing and a 10 second is it all there looksee. I believe this intentional to save costs thinking a lot are returned because the end user didn't want it, didn't fire it enough to settle it down and break it in, mounted the scope right away and it broke (maybe they didn't even know and just concluded it was an inaccurate gun), and even if it had an issue that effected accuracy, one person returning it due to 1" groups at 15 yards doesn't mean the next person who gets it will not keep it thinking that isn't too bad.
To me, both cases - now it becomes known your reputation is on the line and what comes next is going to be based upon what the company feels needs to happen to protect said reputation. In the first case, I've heard a lot of good things about Hatsan's factory warranty repairs. In the second, I can tell you first hand it is Umarex's policy to blame the gun owner and make up stories they think will cast doubt to at least try to keep people from attributing the issues to a failure on their part to honor their warranty obligations.
So I think your situation is different from Jim's. Also, I think Hatsan's going to take good care of you ;D I also feel compelled to say that I think your odds of getting a better shooter would have been improved if you had it sent directly to a reputable tuner. If he got a bad one it would go back for warranty replacement (and you wouldn't have had to hassle with that), if not it's on the tuner to make you proud. Not only that, but maybe the tuner would be willing to carry your warranty?
That said when it comes to someone asking me, 'what should I get for $200?' I'll tell them what an awesome gun the 95 is, when it's working right.
It's a free country Glen, but I've got one with issues too and while what you say is true, I think it equally informative to just say many have QC issues, so if you are not prepared to work on it, you need to evaluate it before it is no longer returnable for refund.
The factory was willing to look at mine (on my dime for shipping) under warranty. I declined, so my story is one of "can I fix it". I think your story as written is fair, but unfinished until you get it back and see if they fixed it right and got it shooting well. I would hope at this point they will see how it groups and if not exceptionally well, replace the barrel until it does or offer you a new bulletproofed gun! Yes though - you are entitled to tell your story as-is! Like I said though, I don't think your story is finished yet...
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Oh, I got it back and it's shooting fine. For now. ;) I AM encouraged though. I'm also busy; it'll be weeks before I can get the scope back on it and try zeroing it in again.
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Pick anything you can buy: cars, electronics, air rifles or anything else, there's always the chance you'll get a poorly made or bad one. I like to call them Friday items...it was a Friday, the people in the plant are only looking forward to the weekend and get a little lax on the job. I have a Mod 95, got mine brand new and yep, it's had minor issues. The front and back stock screws got loose. I'm one of the lucky ones that cleaning and loctiting fixed it. I also have an Edge springer with a slightly oversized barrel that will only take certain head sized pellets. I have a Crosman Optimus a friend gave me that he'd only had 2 months and said it shot lousy...they do with broken springs. You can go read in any Gate on here and find guys that have issues, even in the higher end rifles. Pick any brand and any price range and someone's probably gotten one with problems.
I'm sure everyone on the forum has their own personal story of a lemon or 2 with air rifles and they do tend to be fickle little beasts but hopefully people don't get put off by a brand or a model because they got one of those Friday rifles. Even after seeing the guys that have had problems with the Model 95 would I buy another one? Absolutely! They're a great rifle for the price and unfortunately, they're like anything else you can buy...sometimes you're gonna get a bad one even though every one of us wishes they came perfect and never a problem.
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Methuselah, to answer your question, the first 95 would fire even when the safety was engaged. You read all my posts so I won't rehash. I realize anything mechanical is subject to fail and I'm not here to bash Hatsan or any other brand. Simply, for me, the best route was to return it. I already had disappointment and felt i would never truly be happy with it. I don't really care to "tinker" anymore. I'm sure those that enjoy doing so can make almost any rifle a good shooter, just not my interest.
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Methuselah, to answer your question, the first 95 would fire even when the safety was engaged. You read all my posts so I won't rehash. I realize anything mechanical is subject to fail and I'm not here to bash Hatsan or any other brand. Simply, for me, the best route was to return it. I already had disappointment and felt i would never truly be happy with it. I don't really care to "tinker" anymore. I'm sure those that enjoy doing so can make almost any rifle a good shooter, just not my interest.
Thanks
On my 125 the tally in tools and supplies is up to almost $300, but most of it will work on my three other airguns as well so I certainly respect your choices.
Hopefully the Walther Terrus will be better out of the starting gate ;D
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My dad would say the bad stuff was made on a Monday because everyone was hung over. ;)
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Or on Friday, everyones in a hurry to get started on a hangover 8)