GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Engineering- Research & Development => Topic started by: pedersondev on January 19, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
-
After a lot of research, I decided to try using a solenoid to activate the valve in the XS-60C.
Here's the testing rig:
(http://kommandopost.com/images/solenoidtest.jpg)
The long rod is 1 foot of 0.75 inch diameter polycarbonate.
The solenoid I currently have is not strong enough. It pushes the rod into the valve but it's not enough to "crack" it. I forcefully pushed the solenoid core with my hand and it was enough to make the valve "crack".
This is the solenoid I'm currently using:
Ebay Item number 350931123093
42N, 0.45A
This is the solenoid I'm considering:
Ebay item number 321523344122
87N, 2.5A
Do you guys think that will be enough? It's probably the strongest solenoid I could find with a reasonable throw length.
-
Interesting!!
-
After a lot of research, I decided to try using a solenoid to activate the valve in the XS-60C.
Here's the testing rig:
(http://kommandopost.com/images/solenoidtest.jpg)
The long rod is 1 foot of 0.75 inch diameter polycarbonate.
The solenoid I currently have is not strong enough. It pushes the rod into the valve but it's not enough to "crack" it. I forcefully pushed the solenoid core with my hand and it was enough to make the valve "crack".
This is the solenoid I'm currently using:
Ebay Item number 350931123093
42N, 0.45A
This is the solenoid I'm considering:
Ebay item number 321523344122
87N, 2.5A
Do you guys think that will be enough? It's probably the strongest solenoid I could find with a reasonable throw length.
Take a look here for some inspiration and ideas.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=504 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=504)
Tom
-
Either could work. Though the second one looks better. It will depend on how it's driven. Since the duty cycle is so low in this type of application, you can run them at much higher voltages then indicated.
And you can increase the capacitance to give it a bigger jolt.
Are you using the polycarbonate rod to open the valve? Much better to have the plunger hit the valve directly. Use it in place of the hammer.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96617.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96617.0)
-
Either could work. Though the second one looks better. It will depend on how it's driven. Since the duty cycle is so low in this type of application, you can run them at much higher voltages then indicated.
And you can increase the capacitance to give it a bigger jolt.
Are you using the polycarbonate rod to open the valve? Much better to have the plunger hit the valve directly. Use it in place of the hammer.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96617.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96617.0)
I considered using the solenoid directly on the valve, but I don't have access to anything that can machine away the aluminum to allow the solenoid to be placed directly next to the valve.
The issue seems to be that the solenoid I have right now isn't pushing the rod forcefully or fast enough.
-
Success!
I replaced the capacitor with one that could handle a higher voltage (63V, 2200uF) and cranked up the voltage all the way to 60V. Using the same solenoid managed to open the valve and produce a loud "CRACK!".
If you want to see it in action, take a look at this youtube video: youtube.com/watch?v=FyEM6lximSU
Parts I used:
Capacitor: LLS1J222MELA-ND
Polycarbonate Rod: McMaster Carr 85485k45
Solenoid: See first post of thread
Now the next steps are to attach the polycarbonate rod to the solenoid, to see if I can make the hammer shorter, and to integrate a microcontroller to control the solenoid.
-
thats awesome, i only thought the smaller ebay solenoids would be good for pulling a trigger on a bullpup.. No hammer bounce with this setup at all, id actually use the smaller one on the trigger since you have it anyway
-
Enter the world of the DAYSTATE Mk3 and Mk4 electronic rifles ....
(http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/IWA%202004/Daystate%20Mk3%20Cutaway.JPG)
-
or the Rogue ;)
-
You might read this thread http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50414.msg477766#msg477766 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50414.msg477766#msg477766)
he was too successful with a solenoid and they become illegal for the gun he built
-
so i guess after his gun won a bunch of competitions they outlawed electronics in the guns? thanks for sharing the link!i see now this was the start of thomas rifles
-
I hav to ask QVTom:
What do these capacitors and diodes do?
Would think this is just a on/off thing?
-
I hav to ask QVTom:
What do these capacitors and diodes do?
Would think this is just a on/off thing?
Are you talking about my circuit or something which I can't seem to see (thread that QVTom linked to appears to be about hunting)? Anyways, I'll try to answer based on my circuit:
- The largest capacitor is to store the electrical energy so that it can be released all at once when the trigger is pressed. This is important to ensure that there is enough energy released in a short enough amount of time to make the valve open when the solenoid's ram (hammer) hits it.
- The 1 diode put across the terminals of the solenoid is called a flyback diode. This is necessary since the solenoid (an inductor) will "discharge" a current when the power is cut that may damage other components on the circuit. The diode gives this "flyback" current a safe place to go and controls which direction it should go.
-
Thank you Pedersondev, very informative.
-
I made the mistake of reading the posts in this thread and now I've got a head full of ideas that need testing. I think I'll order another Vigilante and see if a custom designed compact solenoid can be wound to replace the hammer. This will be a challenge in design and materials that would be very enjoyable.
Just what I need - another project. Well, I can call it part of the Vigilante hack!
-
I made the mistake of reading the posts in this thread and now I've got a head full of ideas that need testing. I think I'll order another Vigilante and see if a custom designed compact solenoid can be wound to replace the hammer. This will be a challenge in design and materials that would be very enjoyable.
Just what I need - another project. Well, I can call it part of the Vigilante hack!
I experimented with an electronic hammer in a Marauder pistol grip. Better shot cycle but more complex than a mechanical setup. I went back to the standard trigger.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96617.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96617.0)
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg607/Scotchmo1957/hammer-circuit-00.jpg)