GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: GD Giles on January 18, 2016, 10:32:57 PM
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I got my 95 Vortex .22 back from Hatsan USA today after apparently a seal was defective. The factory repair supplied target/report says the gun now averages 828fps with a Vortex Express 13.12gr pellet. When I first got it, that report said it averaged 837fps with a Vortex Express 14.13gr pellet. Ive searched and I cannot find such a pellet. I can only find the 13.12 model so Im guessing theres an error on my initial report.
I put it though my own chrony, firing about 12 back, and using 14.3gr CPHPs this is what I got:
1 801.4
2 810.8
3 814.1
4 811.8
5 755,5 (low)
6 814.3 (high)
7 808.0
8 803-4
9 802.7
10 773.1
Av 799.5
Ext Spread 58.82
Std. Dev 19.51
FPE 20.3
It smoked a bit, as you can see on the video, especially shot #5 which sounded different too. This is my first ever chrony string so how common is it for the low and high to be back to back shots?
For now I think Im going to leave this one open sighted and keep it as my backyard, sub 25 yard gun. Originally I was going to do that w/a 125 Sniper in .25 but I think this will do fine.
Why read about it when you can watch it! I'm working on 3D and popcorn smell-o-vision. ;) Smelled that smoke though.... :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e0dwBmtdOk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e0dwBmtdOk#)
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I expect it to settle down to mid/low 800's myself.
When shooting threw a chrony? Try to keep the line of fire as close to parallel as you can.
Angled shots can give you a false reading.
It's also easy to shoot the chrony from an off hand position.
(Don't ask me how I know that)
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I thought I'd get more consistency shooting from that rest/work platform. It might have a slight downward slope to it created by the variance of thickness of the stock. I'm trying hard not to shoot the chrony. :) Maybe I can get a level and build up some kind of pad with rags or something to level it out. But, that was the first run of my bench set up and I'm pretty happy with it. Now I just have to find time to shoot AT something so I can start sighting it in.
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Just keep shooting it it should blow some of the oil they put on the seals out. When I oil my NP it has crazy variations like your string. After about 50 shots I'll run a dry patch or 2 through the barrel to clean out any oil in there. Then she smooths right on out.
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I shot my chrony yesterday shooting just like you are in the vid, had the barrel angled down to much and hit the back sensor, still working.
Might be good to clean your barrel often until the dieseling stops
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I shot my chrony yesterday shooting just like you are in the vid, had the barrel angled down to much and hit the back sensor, still working.
Welcome to the Club Fellow Chrony Shooter!!
;D
Guess I need to adjust my stuff over to the left.
;)
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Welcome to the Club Fellow Chrony Shooter!!
;D
Second time now, I am still in denial ;D
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3rd times a charm.
Don't ask!
;D
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You can see the pellets hitting the center of the trap and that's a good 3-4 inches over the sensor. I could always toss a box or boards or something stable under the rest if I wanted to get that up higher, but I think it's ok?
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It's when you think your OK it will bite you.
I now have a rest that I KNOW will not allow me to shoot it.
;D
Took nearly 3 years but I did put a hurting on one.
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Definitely something I should think about.
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Maybe Hatsan used the 14.66 Vortex Supreme pellets for the test? Anyways, good to hear that you got your gun's main issue resolved. I have been checking airgunproshop's website for MOD 95 availability and there is none so far.
Congrats on your up and coming AT44 QE. I have the same gun in .22.
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Why did Hatsan USA do the repair when you purchased the gun and had it tuned at Airgun Pro?
The numbers are right where they should be. The gun specs for 800 fps with a Hatsan main seal shooting 13.xx grain. I don't know if they still use slightly undersized seals but that is the main issue that when tuning people purchase after market seals to correct. The seal from Airgun Pro's tune may have prematurely failed but was undoubtedly the correct after market seal that people use. It would produce a slightly higher fps. Then again, a crony is not exacting. It will vary reading from outdoor to indoor, lighting change etc. To be 20 fps slower using a grain heavier pellet and different crony certainly sound right and about as exacting as it gets.
If you can shoot well with open sights then your all set. I can but am not nearly as fast or accurate as with a scope. If you decide to put a scope back on wait for the smoking to stop and gun to settle in.
Vortex only has the two pellets in .22, express 13.xx and the supreme 14.xx.
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For what it's worth, Hatsan Vortex pellets are actually made by H&N...also why they're now a distributor of the H&N brand.
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For what it's worth, Hatsan Vortex pellets are actually made by H&N...also why they're now a distributor of the H&N brand.
Yep, and the Beemans' as well. At least the Crow Magnums are.
Ed
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Glad to see you got it back and everything is working well. Look forward to seeing your update on the improved accuracy now that you have a stable velocity. I understand it may be a while for the gun to settle and decide how it will shoot consistently.
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Glad to see you got your rifle back and it appears to be shooting without any more issues.
Your video serves as a great proof of concept for your DIY pellet trap too. Not sure if you intentionally placed it in front of a window, or even thought about it for that matter, but certainly a ballsy move...well done! If my wife caught me doing that, I would only be able to make moves without the ballsy part. ;)
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Congratulations Glen. You certainly had a major ordeal, thanks for sharing. :'( :'(
Now you need to order a second set of stock screws; front and back, new piston seal, cleaning kit, and tool set.
Send a few wet patches down the barrel. Then a few dry ones. After a while the smoke will clear. :o
How are you stock screws holding up? If anything, a bad piston seal and 40% less velocity should not make your stock screw back out.
Have you ever tried Vibra-tite? I understand it is significantly better than Loctite.
-Y
P.S. Unless they explicitly said that they cleaned the barrel, after your experience, why would think that they did it?
Who would think that a brand new air gun, never been fired, needs a barrel cleaning more that most air guns with 10,000 pellets down the cute.
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"Why did Hatsan USA do the repair when you purchased the gun and had it tuned at Airgun Pro?"
That surprised me too. As a guitar tech if I do work and it fails I want it back to A-make it right and B-learn from the circumstance so it doesn't happen again. I'm learning every day that the AG business is nothing like the guitar business. AGPS talked to me and determined it was a warranty issue so they sent me to Hatsan USA. If that's SOP for them, ok. I don't feel they treated me bad or anything, just not the way I would have done it but that's ok.
I don't know how long it should take this gun to settle in. I had already fired about 600 pellets through it before it broke so in theory the only new part is a seal. Does that have to settle? I'm looking forward to getting back to the indoor range this Sunday and sighting it in. I'll how long I can tolerate shooting it open. I might go ahead and pop and Optima back on it. I'm saving the UTG for the AT44 on the way.
I've put 100's of pellets in that trap and will even set it up that way when my PCP gets here. Knowing who would have to do the repair work I really take my time to make sure it's going to be ok. If you noticed, those pellets were hitting dead center on that trap. :)
Yogi my goal is to just keep it stock if I can. I mean if it starts shooting itself apart then I guess I'll have to do something. With only firing 10 shots the screws are tight. We'll see Sunday when I put a lot more down range. The forestock screws have always been rock solid tight. It's always just been the one screw at the back of the trigger guard that's given me fits.
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Try firing a couple heavier pellets through the rifle to help get the excess lube burned out of the compression tube that's in front of the piston.
Something in the 16 or 18 grain range should work. As far as your chrony readings go,its very common for your high and low shot to be one after the other when your rifle is still dieseling . I don't know if its the extra heat that the diesel shot makes but its very common for the next shot to be very low. Good Luck, John
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Thanks, I've got some 16 and even 19gr pellets. Hey, I think I just bought at Hatsan AT44 that used to belong to you!
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Yogi--I'm another guy with the rear stock screw that refuses to stay tight. >:( I've cleaned both sets of threads with acetone and applied locktite (let it cure for at least 24 hours) three different times and it still loosens up. ??? Your post caught my eye because I put Vibratite on my wish list at Amazon a couple of days ago. Next time I order from them I'll get it to try. Sure hope that does the job!
Ed
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Just an FYI, but when you bought the Hatsan Factory Bullet Proofing Service, they sent your rifle to Hatsan for it and very likely why when you sent it back under the warranty, it went to HatsanUSA, not AGPS. You should have a 1 year warranty with that service if I read their website correctly, so any issues, Hatsan takes care of.
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When I bought the gun it shipped from AGPS in AZ so that's where the Factory Bulletproof would have happened. The Hatsan USA repair happened in AR as that's where the gun was shipped and then sent back to me. Realistically, that alone saved me about 4 days or more of the gun just riding in the back of a brown truck. :) Maybe that's why they do it that way; get it turned around faster for the customer?
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I believe Airgun Pro does it's own tuning service. I mean, they've got their own videos on it with their banner and Pyramyd Air logos in background and same non Hatsan USA tech doing the work.
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Yeah, I'm certain they do it themselves.
So, just for fun I wanted to compare the video I made of when the gun was firing slow to the one I put in the original post in this thread when it came back and I was testing it. What struck me is the audible difference in cocking the gun. With the repaired gun in the first video you can hear a noise that's almost like a nylon jacket rubbing against itself. In this video, where the gun is broken/damaged seal, that noise is gone and it's jut metallic clicks. I never would have thought to listen to the gun for a problem. It's funny I didn't notice that change whenever the seal became damaged. I guess there's one more thing to check when it starts going south. Are the screws tight? Does it sound the same?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u2LJY70IO8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u2LJY70IO8#)
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Straight from the AGPS website:
The Bullet Proofing service, performed by Hatsan USA Service Technicians, may add an additional 2 weeks to process as it will be tested, bullet proofed, and then retested. You will receive email updates throughout the process.
AGPS tunes rifles but they don't do the Bullet Proof service which, at least according to this, is done by the techs at HatsanUSA. You can read the whole of it here and it's why your rifle went to HatsanUSA, not AGPS.
You can read all of it here:
http://www.airgunproshop.com/airgun-services/airgun-tuning-bulletproof-hatsan-refurbished-airgun/ (http://www.airgunproshop.com/airgun-services/airgun-tuning-bulletproof-hatsan-refurbished-airgun/)
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I read that when I bought the gun and I inferred that the service tech was located at AGPS. If you're suggesting that AGPS has no one, or, doesn't actually do the Bulletproofing then how was it performed on my gun? Was it performed on my gun?
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The way I read AGPS's statement Hatsan USA does the "bullet proofing" at their location---that's why it takes 2 weeks longer for one to receive their rifle when they choose this service. IMO every one of those steps listed should be performed on a "refurbished" rifle to begin with but that's just me. What the #@*& do they do to refurbish one without someone paying for it to "bullet proofed". ::)
Glad your 95 is performing well now Glen but it should have been from the beginning, especially having paid that much for that service.
Ed
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If that's the case, mine was never Bulletproofed. I paid and it shipped to me from AZ within 24 hours of payment.
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The way I read AGPS's statement Hatsan USA does the "bullet proofing" at their location---that's why it takes 2 weeks longer for one to receive their rifle when they choose this service. IMO every one of those steps listed should be performed on a "refurbished" rifle to begin with but that's just me. What the #@*& do they do to refurbish one without someone paying for it to "bullet proofed". ::)
Glad your 95 is performing well now Glen but it should have been from the beginning, especially having paid that much for that service.
Ed
Amen :o :o
-Y
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Glen,
Glad you got the rifle back. I agree that you should keep to open sights for now. Under 25 yards, that is all you need for pest control and target shooting. You might be surprised how accurate you can be with that set up. At least break it in a while that way if you do choose to scope it down the road.
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If that's the case, mine was never Bulletproofed. I paid and it shipped to me from AZ within 24 hours of payment.
Just a theory, but maybe AGPS stocks a few guns that have already been "bulletproofed' by Hatsan? If so, it would account for the immediate shipment from AZ.
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I think AGPS has Hatsan factory techs on site, or at least one that's certified.
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If that's the case, mine was never Bulletproofed. I paid and it shipped to me from AZ within 24 hours of payment.
Just a theory, but maybe AGPS stocks a few guns that have already been "bulletproofed' by Hatsan? If so, it would account for the immediate shipment from AZ.
+1 to this...I would think that any place that sells Hatsan refurbs has to get them from Hatsan, sooo...someone returns a rifle for whatever reason, that rifle gets returned to Hatsan, a Hatsan tech tears it down, cleans it up, checks everything, pops a couple new Hatsan seals on it, lubes it up, puts it back together and sends it off to their QA dept who shoots and chronies it to make sure it's shooting right, then boxes it up and sends it back out.
As far as a for real tuning job, the only way to find out if was honed, deburred, polished and all the rest would be having a tuner tear the rifle apart and look at everything. Since you bought the Bullet Proofing option which now gives you a 1 year warranty compared to most refurbs getting a 30 day from the seller, any issues you have, AGPS has the rifle sent direct to Hatsan because as Hatsan is famous for saying, if you open the rifle, you void the warranty and AGPS being an outside service, they won't touch it.
Just my own personal theory but you got the rifle way too fast for for it to have gone back to Hatsan to be completely gone through as stated on the AGPS site.
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I don't know how long it takes someone to do a Hatsan Factory Bulletproof service. 2 hours? 6 hours? Let's be honest; AGPS only has about 30 guns in stock so it's not like they're some big operation. It could very much be that the day I bought my 95 the tech had nothing on his bench and was able to service mine right away. Fwiw, I was prepared to wait up to 2 weeks. I was surprised when I got a shipping notice about 24 hours after I bought it.
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Glad they got you sorted out!
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Glad you got your gun back, it seems that you are getting very good velocity, very nice.
IMHO, around 800 fps in a barrel breaker in .22 is very good.... a few years ago that speed in a .177 was considered a magnum using a medium weight pellet. In the last few years airgun technology has gone crazy !
wll