GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: C.ALLS on December 10, 2015, 01:49:24 PM
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Where it all started - http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=99965.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=99965.0)
Well it happened last week. I had been out since Saturday and had seen two deer and one of them was this little buck. I gave him a pass on the first day because he was just 10 yards away and to be honest I was waiting for something larger BUT after sitting in the woods getting drenched those last few days something had to give. So I decided meat in the freezer is meat in the freezer and took the little 5 point.
He showed up at 97 yards away but when I turned to get lined up he got spooked and jumped through the woods another few yards. I ranged him at 113 yards. Now I've been shooting this gun out to 150 yards and easily doing 4" groups. At 100 yards the groups are 2" so I was very confident that as long as I knew the yardage I could make a quick ethical shot. So at 113 yards I held the 4th mil-dot just above the sweet spot of the deer and let the 735 grain hollow point fly (@895fps). The deer jolted but I knew he was hit hard. I waited 20 minutes and went looking only to find him piled up 30 yards from where he was shot.
I'll get some pictures up of the retrieved bullet a little later and post a picture of the deer in the hunters gate. Now the next hurdle is getting Maryland to allow big game hunting with airguns without having to meet their crazy 1200ft/lb minimum. I feel pretty confident it'll happen with time and everyone I've spoken with has been supportive so I guess we'll see.
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Congrats!!
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Great job Chris!! Rifle season started out as a real soaker in Maryland but you hung tough and got it done, I would have done the same with all the rain we had. As far as the DNR is concerned on the 1200 ft. lb. issue I'm willing to make calls or sign petitions, whatever it takes, just let me know.
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Way to go Brother Man!!! ;D
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Here ya go Chris... I wanted to put these pics up for you! Congrats!!!!!! 8)
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Congrats chris . Hope this helps with the dnr .
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C.ALLS- That's awesome, congratulations on the first Legal Md airgun deer. Just out of curiosity who was the head of deer biology that gave permission for the new airgun? I asked a few people in Wildlife and Herritage and no one seemed to know. I would like to talk to a few people about a COMAR adjustment for next year or more likely the 2017/18 hunting season and it would help to know who was already in the loop with the go ahead.
Thanks
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C.ALLS- That's awesome, congratulations on the first Legal Md airgun deer. Just out of curiosity who was the head of deer biology that gave permission for the new airgun? I asked a few people in Wildlife and Herritage and no one seemed to know. I would like to talk to a few people about a COMAR adjustment for next year or more likely the 2017/18 hunting season and it would help to know who was already in the loop with the go ahead.
Thanks
His name is Brian Eyler. I'll PM you his contact information.
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Thanks!
That saves me some tracking down.
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Thanks!
That saves me some tracking down.
PM sent. Let me know what I can do to help.
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Congrats!
I think the 1200ftlbs minimum makes sense, some of those deer might have body armor or be standing behind another deer. :P
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Congrats!
I think the 1200ftlbs minimum makes sense, some of those deer might have body armor or be standing behind another deer. :P
Lol.... The weird thing is that IF you choose to hunt with a pistol in Maryland it only has to produce 700ft/lbs. The regulations don't make sense BUT the good news is everyone I spoke with at DNR and NRP agreed.
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Congrats!
I think the 1200ftlbs minimum makes sense, some of those deer might have body armor or be standing behind another deer. :P
Lol.... The weird thing is that IF you choose to hunt with a pistol in Maryland it only has to produce 700ft/lbs. The regulations don't make sense BUT the good news is everyone I spoke with at DNR and NRP agreed.
Actually if you use a Muzzle Loading Revolver you only have to use 40grains of BP equivilant and have a 7in barrel. I have an uberti 454 black powder that only produces 490 ftlbs with round balls when loaded with 40gr. The regs are definitely not in sync.
Nothing changes fast in Md but the past couple years have been nice with coyote added to the legal airgun game.
Deer are next, just not as easy to get people on board.
P.S. that 490ft lb rounds ball passes clean through a deer out to 40 yards
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Great history made by you Chris. First Airgun deer in your state!! You and Extreme made HISTORY!!! What steps do you recommend for me to take to try to get the ball rolling in Texas?! Should I try starting at the Local Game Warden office? Or should save some time and try emailing our Governor? Our Extreme guns and others put out more energy that bows and a lot of powder burner pistols. Just a little advise from someone who accomplished that already.
Thanks Brother Man
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I have a question, on the advertising of the Texan. The Texan has taken white tail deer in Texas. I have access to a 10section and a 2section hi fenced area. Deer are owned by the ranchers correct? They breed and manage the herds! I spoke with our local game warden. His answer was NO GAME ANIMALS ARE TO BE TAKEN WITH AN AIRGUN. REGARDLESS WHO THEY BELONG TOO. TEXAS OR LAND OWNER! Ummmmm
Yes sir. I was a little stumped but I might need to check a little higher up the ladder. Because we can hunt Axis Fallow and many Exotic game, deer size or larger with an Airgun. Any advise is appreciated, I might try to contact Ton Jones and see how he was able to accomplish his hunts.
Thanks Fellas
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Awesome job Chris Extreme and my customers got it done this year. First was Rachel Cummings (my step daughter) Youth season first youth deer ever taken in Michigan's southern zone with an air rifle with the Extreme .457 next was Ray Townsend taking the first legal deer in Michigan's southern zone firearm season with an air rifle Extreme .408 then Chris Alls first deer ever taken with an air rifle in Maryland with the Extreme 72 caliber. The most important thing with all three of these kills is that none of the three deer taken went over 50 yards for recovery proving that more power with accuracy can not be beaten for a hunting rifle. Next Chris Alls and Mike Pangle go to the extreme bench rest shoot and take first and second place in the 200 yard shoot. I know there were many other Kills by other people with there Extreme rifles this year and just want to say thank you to everybody that purchased one of my rifles and achieved the goals they had set with there rifle. With results like this I am proud to be a part of it all. GREAT JOB everybody.
Brent Hoag
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Lol.... The weird thing is that IF you choose to hunt with a pistol in Maryland it only has to produce 700ft/lbs. The regulations don't make sense BUT the good news is everyone I spoke with at DNR and NRP agreed.
One can only speculate the minds or thought processes of others, but likely it is estimated terminal energy as in a rifle at what might be considered a minimal energy required at distance, say 200yd and similar estimates of what one may attempt with pistol at much closer range, equating similar energy on impact.
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Great history made by you Chris. First Airgun deer in your state!! You and Extreme made HISTORY!!! What steps do you recommend for me to take to try to get the ball rolling in Texas?! Should I try starting at the Local Game Warden office? Or should save some time and try emailing our Governor? Our Extreme guns and others put out more energy that bows and a lot of powder burner pistols. Just a little advise from someone who accomplished that already.
Thanks Brother Man
Unfortunately the great state of Texas is going to be a little more difficult because of the way the airgun law is written.
This is off the Texas regulations page - "pellet guns and other air guns arenot legal for the take of any game bird or game animal other than squirrel. To be lawful for the take of squirrel, an air rifle must be designed to be fired from the shoulder and use the force of a spring, air, or other non-ignited compressed gas to expel a projectile of at least .177 caliber (4.5mm) at a minimum muzzle velocity of 600 feet per second."
Maryland left a little wiggle room with the way their regulations are written. This is from their regulations page - Air rifles are legal to use for hunting in Maryland and must comply with the rifle regulations. Air rifles may not be used to hunt turkeys in the Spring and Winter Seasons or migratory game birds. They are not legal for deer or bear hunting because they do not meet the minimum muzzle energy standard for rifles noted below.Rifles used for deer and bear hunting must use ammunition developing a muzzle energy of at least 1,200 foot pounds.
So my advice would be to start inquiring on what the process is for changing a law/regulation. I also suggest always being polite and have all your information in front of you because you will eventually find someone willing to help and if they see you've done your research they're more likely to help.
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Lol.... The weird thing is that IF you choose to hunt with a pistol in Maryland it only has to produce 700ft/lbs. The regulations don't make sense BUT the good news is everyone I spoke with at DNR and NRP agreed.
One can only speculate the minds or thought processes of others, but likely it is estimated terminal energy as in a rifle at what might be considered a minimal energy required at distance, say 200yd and similar estimates of what one may attempt with pistol at much closer range, equating similar energy on impact.
I understand that theory but it just doesn't apply when you're talking modern firearms. Heck I know quite a few dedicated pistol shooters that can ring a 4" gong at 300 yards repeatedly. I know even more rifle shooters who struggle to hit that same gong at 150 yards. In my opinion it's all about knowing your weapon and your capabilities so that you can decide what range you can make a quick/ethical kill.
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I dont think there is much consideration for much, as many of these standards were made with pre modern equipment, including the ability to determine required energy to take game consistently and humanely, the later was likely also an after thought before much consideration. Humane disposal is a much more recent concept. I'm with you, and in fact still quite amazed with modern airguns let alone modern powder burners. I just watched a vid of the DP-12 (SBS SG) with the gent shooting off hand 25, 50, 75, 100yd.
So, certainly dealing with the abilities of the modern airgun as well as improved understanding of energy requirements. Not to be a broken record, but I'm amazed at what I have read/seen what you all have done with the Extreme, and not biased since I dont even own one (yet). Nice work on the hunt and forging for future rule changes that will certainly benefit anyone else in the state, as with also setting precedents for the rest of us who are even further behind, eg NH :-)
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Congrats Chris, awesome accomplishment.
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Thank you fellas.
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One thing I left out of my earlier post is all three of these deer were bucks. Chris do you have a picture of your buck with you and the rifle in the picture so I can put you on my web site.
Brent
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One thing I left out of my earlier post is all three of these deer were bucks. Chris do you have a picture of your buck with you and the rifle in the picture so I can put you on my web site.
Brent
Nah. I'm not a selfy kinda guy lol.... I have a picture of the deer and gun.
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Congratulations Chris. You rock! Awesome shot