GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: John Herrington III on December 08, 2015, 06:06:48 PM
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I've already posted telling about myself and my situation. I'm looking for a gun that is reliable and accurate and will not require work or adjustment constantly. I'm new to high power air rifles and I have a few questions. From what I've read on here it seems replacing breech and piston seals are the first thing to do to these guns aside from a good clean up,proper lube and checking all screws. Do I need a special jig or tool when removing the piston to replace the seal? Do these guns come with detailed instructions on disassembly? Any info appreciated
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Guns do NOT come with disassembly instructions, in fact in the case of the Umarex you WILL void the warranty by disassembly. Crosman is more forgiving on that point but you will likely end up building or procuring pivot washers and a different trigger to make the gun easier to shoot. I don't know your budget but I urge you to seriously consider European if you don't want a project.
You might also investigate Flying Dragon Air Rifles. Talk to Mike Melick about an XS 25 with a full tune - I believe he's still including a lifetime warranty with his fully tuned guns. If you think you need more power he can help you there, too.
As far as taking a spring gun apart - the only special tool you'll need is a spring compressor.
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Both choices are known for terrible triggers.
The new Benjamin Trail NP2 are suppose to have better triggers. The original Trail and NP2 can be upgraded to a Charliedatuna trigger.
As for the Octane. You can take a look into the China Gate. There is a fairly new thread on the Octanes trigger.
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If you are dead set on one of those two guns then by all means disregard this post.
I have an Octane. Even after the smoothing the trigger and installing a custom trigger component, it is still a difficult gun to master. Typically but not always, magnum guns are more hold sensitive making them harder to shoot accurately. That does not mean they aren't accurate, just harder to learn.
Not all guns need work other than cleaning the barrel and locktiting the stock screws. My Dianna 34, for example but not limited to, has been trouble free for thousands of shots with only minor periodic lubing.
If you are open to looking at other guns and choose to further utilize the vast knowledge of the members here then please give them some more info on your wants/needs. What is your intended use? Target or hunting? What distances will you be shooting? If hunting, what animal? Do you prefer a certain caliber? Iron sights or scoped?
Hope this helps some. Good luck in your search.
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I'm not set on the 2,but I like the sounds of the power they put out according to the reviews I've read. I'm disabled in a wheelchair, my mobility and upper body strenth is good. I've shot regular pump pellet guns for years, but this is the first time venturing into break barrel guns. I primarily want the gun for squirrels, maybe every now and then for paper just for fun but primary use will be pest control. Some others have recommended flying dragons airguns, are there any others you guys might recommend?
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I went through 3 springer airguns with lots of power, before I found a springer I could shoot well. that gun is an RWS D34. IMO I would try a medium power springer first and learn how to shoot a springer first. If I had known this when I bought my first springer, I could have saved myself a lot of $$$$ and time. I wist I had found GTA a lot sooner. Glad your here and good luck.
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Give a look at the Jim Shockey Steel Eagle in .22. An honest 22 fpe, quiet and accurate. Mine does 1/2" to 3/4" at 40 yards. Easy to cock, too. Plenty enough power to take squirrels at 40 yards. The only real upgrade needed is brass washers on the pivot.
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If you are not set on those two choices. Consider this one from Airguns of Arizona. Quite a few members here have jumped on this buy. The reason is Weihrauch rifles rarely go on sale and are or are one of the best spring airguns made. JMO
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I have no experience with the Benji Trail but did own an Octane .22. After struggling with the incredibly stiff trigger I gave up and sold it. I assume you are in the $200+ price range? If you are patient, there are some good deals in good quality used guns. I've found a near mint condition Diana 52/.177 for $180 and a tuned Diana 48/.22 for $250.
Either will shoot circles around the guns you mentioned and are guns you can pass down to your grandkids.
Good luck on your hunt!
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Although I own one I wouldn't recommend the Benji XL1100. Yeah, it's powerful and mine is very accurate but it's also very heavy and long. It's a beast to cock as probably all magnum air guns are. For me to do any amount of plinking I need to put the butt on the deck and use both hands for cocking. I can cock it one handed but sure don't want to do it for long. JMO, but I recommend you get something like the Hatsan Edge Vortex. It's fairly light, powerful, very accurate and MUCH easier to cock. Also MUCH less $$$! I've got one in .25 for shorter ranges (up to 25 yards) but get one in .177 or .22. for shooting further out. There on sale Pyramid Air for $99 and ending tonight you can get 11% off that. That's a steal.
Best of luck with whatever choice you make!
Ed
BTW, you don't HAVE to tear in to a new gun to enjoy it. My Edge was super accurate out of the box. The trigger needs a bit of work but that a very easy fix that you don't have tear it apart to do. Consists of replacing one screw you can pick up at a hardware store and maybe 20 minutes adjusting it.
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John
I bet you had no idea how vast your responses would be. There has already been many good suggestions. As you read the responses check youtube for reviews on the guns that interest you.
Flying Dragon is a great place to start. My Dianna 34 is easily my favorite air gun. Before Airguns of Arizona started their HW sale, I bet most would have suggested a Dianna 34. "FYI RWS is distributor. Dianna is the manufacturer." However, with the sale Airguns of Arizona is having I would suggest checking into the HW95. If you still desire the extra power check out the Dianna 48 or even a Hatsan 125.
I also have some more questions. How far do you expect to reach out for squirrel? What is your price range? Does that price include optics?
Time to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. Welcome to the addiction, even if you don't know you have it yet.
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John,
One more thought. There is more than one way to akin a cat. There are a lot of air gunners in the GTA from Texas. You can probably find someone close that would love to show you some of their collection. You can also try visiting the chat.
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John, just to add a bit more info for you to untangle. ;), a friend of mine initially bought a Benjamin Trail NP2, in .22 cal. for shooting pests. He's an amazing rifle shooter, but this was his first air gun. After a full summer of shooting, breaking in, learning the artillery hold, etc., he sold it. He replaced it with a new RWS 350, which is also a magnum and considered by many to be hold sensitive due to it's power. He reported that after only 100 rounds it was "night and day" more accurate that the NP2, at least for him.
I'd bet he would be even more accurate with a lower powered gun like the RWS34, and every bit as deadly on squirrels.
Ron.
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A medium power (.177@~850fps) springer will be able to take squirrel, rabbit and birds out to 40-50 yards. Some have killed coon, ground hog and nutria with these. I have killed nutria at 25 to 50 yards with single headshots from ~13 fpe pumpers and springers. Shot placement is KING! Doubling the power means SQUAT if you miss. Quality design, construction and a good trigger will take you far. Most airgunners in England are limited to 12fpe and they have, for years, regularly taken rabbit and pigeon out to these same ranges.
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Hey John, great advise from the GTA members here. that's why I joined. keep an eye out for deals. I picked up a referb D34p 22cal. for $149 and its a great shooter. the HW95 at AOA is worth every penny and more, and would be an investment that would last a lifetime. also a D48 is a great shooter. I'm saving for a D52 myself. good luck
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John,
There have been many great suggestions as far as other considerations. While I don't have first hand knowledge on several of those mentioned, I do have experience with the Trail XL you mentioned.
I purchased my trail used with brass washer, CDT trigger and it had been gone through for deburring etc. this was my 6th or so breakbarrel and felt confident in my abilities with the previous guns. Let me tell ya.....this gun restarted my learning process with piston guns. First off, the Trail is extremely heavy in comparison to most other rifles out there. While the weight does help to absorb some of the extreme recoil, it does make the gun less than ideal for extended shooting sessions and not the most suitable for carrying out in the field.
Aside from weight, this gun is extremely long. Again it does help it achieve the higher velocities, however it too makes it difficult to move around. On many occasions I had inadvertently bumped and bang the muzzle into walls and doorways in an attempt to get out the door after a pest. Needless to say, I succeeded in scaring away the pest only for it to return later. :o
Lastly, the recoil of the XL is just step below that of a shotgun. I'm not kidding this rifle kicks like a mule! The recoil was the biggest obstacle to overcome for me. It took me quite some time to learn how to hold this gun to shoot it accurately. I had become accustomed to the artillery hold with my previous break barrels and had also been used to firmer holds from shooting powder burners, I found that neither approach was consistent with my Trail. I more or less had to use a hybrid of both to shoot consistently and accurately.
While I have found great enjoyment shooting my Trail, I personally would not recommend it to anyone as their first break barrel. I don't believe that you will enjoy the experience and it may deter you from many great rifles out there.
Please continue to research other rifles out there and look around the GTA for honest feedback on any guns you're interested in. You'll find a wealth of great knowledge and reviews from experienced air gunners that you won't find reading customer reviews on different websites.
Best of luck in your newest addiction.....errrr I mean adventure. ;D
John
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I appreciate all the wonderful info guys, I'll admit I'm now leaning towards the hatsan 125 or the rws 34. I'm more towards the 125 in. 22 caliber,question is with so many versions of the 125 what do I look into? I'm guessing the vortex model? Also I'm giving the 34 serious thought as well
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Hi John, IMO the 34 is still the best place to start. its a very good gun with a very good trigger, IMO better than the 125. I hunt with my 34s both 177 and 22cal. they both drop tree rats with one shot to the head, no problem. and if you tune a 34 they are smooth as butter. then after you master the 34, get a 125 or IMO a D350 magnum. now that is a gun. it took me close to a year before I could shoot my 34 like I can now. and I was a very good shot with powder burners before I bought my first springer. for me shooting a springer is a different animal. I love my 34s and I have many other airguns with more and less power but I shoot my 34s the most. hope this helps and good luck
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From what I understand you are a noob with a pumper. You have not mentioned what range you will be shooting. What pumper are you shooting and caliber? It will take patience and technique to learn to shoot a springer well. Pumpers will be easier to shoot. PCP and pumpers are easier to shoot more accurately as there is almost no recoil. I think to be more effective, a pumper like a sheridan .20 caliber or a benjiman 392 which is .22 would be the better. No learning curve for you.
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I agree with Leonard. I bet the 125 is on par with the XL in cocking force required. You'd be much better off with the 34.
Also agree with John re. the XL. I CAN shoot it accurately off the bench but that's the only way. It's a monster to carry around both in weight and length. I still love mine but it's NOT something to enjoy shooting for any length of time.
Ed
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If your pumper is .177, a 10.5gr pellet at 500 fps should do the job within 20 yards.
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I appreciate all the wonderful info guys, I'll admit I'm now leaning towards the hatsan 125 or the rws 34. I'm more towards the 125 in. 22 caliber,question is with so many versions of the 125 what do I look into? I'm guessing the vortex model? Also I'm giving the 34 serious thought as well
I've owned 2 Hat 125's and now own 2 Hat 135's. They are all big heavy cannons and best suited to bench shooting. I found the 135's more manageable, maybe due to the thicker, more substantial walnut stock to absorb the recoil (they look a lot better too, IMHO).
However, for a field gun I'd steer you towards the Diana 34 or HW95. Both are more accurate, easier to cock, handle & shoot as well as being more refined in fit, finish and overall quality.