TX200 fps questions

[1coolcat]

 Happy holidays, and blessings to all first off.
I have a tx200 177 , ive been contemplating the real need for a 22 cal for hammering pests a bit harder around the property.
Ive looked at the
TX200 22cal
DIANA 54 airking pro  SIDE LEAVER RED LAMINATE 22cal.
 And the HW97 Blue Laminate Blued Steel Barrell .22 Air Rifle if i can find one.
I want to tune a 22cal springer so im getting around 1200 fps .
Out of the 3 i have on my list what is the easiest model to operate on?.
What would you choose and why?
Is any one pushing 22 pellets 1200fps what are your results  on papper, and on small game.
Thank you

[Frank in Fairfield]

Robert, if you have a TX in .177, you should know the answer.

[mikeyb]

Happy holidays, and blessings to all first off.
I have a tx200 177 , ive been contemplating the real need for a 22 cal for hammering pests a bit harder around the property.
Ive looked at the
TX200 22cal
DIANA 54 airking pro  SIDE LEAVER RED LAMINATE 22cal.
 And the HW97 Blue Laminate Blued Steel Barrell .22 Air Rifle if i can find one.
I want to tune a 22cal springer so im getting around 1200 fps .
Out of the 3 i have on my list what is the easiest model to operate on?.
What would you choose and why?
Is any one pushing 22 pellets 1200fps what are your results  on papper, and on small game.
Thank you

I don't think you fully understand what you are asking.

A common 22 pellet weighs in at 14.3 grains. Sending that pellet out at 1200 fps means the Muzzle Energy will be almost 46 ft-lbs. There are NO springers made that are designed to shoot at 46 ft-lbs.

The largest springer currently sold can (under ideal conditions) launch pellets at 34 ft-lbs. Cramming giant coil springs into or over-pressurizing air-springs to get to 46 ft-lbs will make these rifles very uncomfortable and difficult to shoot. It will also quickly destroy parts not designed to handle those excessive forces.

A springer DESIGNED for that 46 ft-lbs ME would likely weigh-in at 15+lbs and require TWO people to cock it. Recoils would be painful.

Another issue is that 1200 fps is supersonic. The muzzle REPORT will be a very loud bullwhip CRACK and even a good moderator will NOT SUPPRESS a supersonic shockwave.

The third issue is accuracy. In GENERAL (but not always) supersonic pellets are not as stable in flight so accuracy usually gets WORSE. Slugs may be ok?
It is common practice to keep "pellets" subsonic with best performance usually around (ballpark) 900 fps.

If you TRULY NEED 46 ft-lbs Muzzle Energy then you should explore PCP rifles AND larger calibers (heavier pellets and/or slugs).

[YEMX]

PCP's aren't even pushing pellets that fast... 

[splitbeing]

I agree that 1200 fps in .22 is not a reasonable goal for those springers.

Regarding pesting, a .22 will smack bigger and harder while a .177 will penetrate more given both at similar power levels.  If you want better penetration for pesting, stay with the .177.  This will be good for head shots on the larger end of small game or the small end of medium sized game.  If you are looking for more smackdown overall on just small game, a .22 will do that better than .177.  It might also be better for vitals shots.

[mikeyb]

It is important to understand spring-piston rifles are ENERGY LIMITED devices. Basically the energy stored in the SPRING (steel coil, air ,gas, doesn't matter) by your ARM defines the size and weight of the rifle. For a given design the lighter pellets will have a higher velocity and the heavier pellets will have a lower velocity. The Muzzle Energy stays "relatively" constant (but not perfectly). When evaluating springers for a given application it may be helpful to think in terms of Muzzle Energy over Velocity.

PCP rifles don't have the same limitation so you can adjust them to shoot over a much larger range of pellet weights, velocities, and muzzle energies... within reasonable limits.

If you want "smack-down" power in the 46 ft-lb range for larger pesting/hunting I suggest a 25 caliber PCP. A 24.7 grain pellet going subsonic at ~920 fps will have a muzzle energy of ~46 ft-lbs. That rifle won't be completely silent but with the right moderator baffles it could be "backyard friendly". I'm shooting a 25 caliber PCP (~$225) right now adjusted to ~38 ft-lbs and the target SMACK is the loudest part of the shot. There is NO recoil, only a little "ping" sound coming from the hammer hitting the valve. I installed a CHEAP scope and CHEAP mounts on this rifle. Even the moderate recoils from my medium energy (20fpe) springers would likely BREAK these mounts and the scope, but they are working just fine on this PCP rifle.

I'm still adjusting my rifle with the goal of 780fps (~33 ft-lbs) average over 36 shots between air fills (1500psi-3000psi). This velocity, energy, and shot count are what I want for my hunting/pesting/plinking needs. YMMV :-)

[Back_Roads]

 My factory stock, .177 Hatsan 135 Vortex has been clocked at 1498 FPS with a 4.5 gr alloy pellet, that speed and energy bleeds off fast and accuracy not good past 20 yards or so.
 Get a cheap PCP

[Doug Wall]

You might be able to get 1200 fps with some really light alloy pellets, but that's just a circus trick. A light alloy pellet at 1200 fps will , most likely, have poor accuracy, and in reality not much more FPE. Since the energy is pretty much limited by the swept air volume of the piston, increasing the spring strength will only make the gun harder to cock and rougher to shoot. It will also put more strain on the gun, making it more likely to fail. If you want more FPE in a springer, you should get something like a Hatsan 135, but it's a beast of a gun to shoot.

Get a PCP!

[splitbeing]

As far as light pellets go, the h&n fitt greens do well accuracywise if lead ftts also do well in the gun.

[nced]

Happy holidays, and blessings to all first off.
I have a tx200 177 , ive been contemplating the real need for a 22 cal for hammering pests a bit harder around the property.
Ive looked at the
TX200 22cal
DIANA 54 airking pro  SIDE LEAVER RED LAMINATE 22cal.
 And the HW97 Blue Laminate Blued Steel Barrell .22 Air Rifle if i can find one.
I want to tune a 22cal springer so im getting around 1200 fps .
Out of the 3 i have on my list what is the easiest model to operate on?.
What would you choose and why?
Is any one pushing 22 pellets 1200fps what are your results  on papper, and on small game.
Thank you

Interesting! When a .177 Beeman R10 tuned to a bit over 14fpe was perfectly adequate for tree squirrels in West Virginia and even took out two squirrels in a row from an oak tree from my deck at a measured 65 yards.

After about a year I bought a .20 Beeman R9 when I bought the "fatter pellet more gooder" advice. LOL, it did make a bigger hole than the .177 cal pellet but it didn't increase my "hit to retrieve ratio" at all. Matter of fact, my percentage of "hits vs retrieves" was lower with the "fatter pellet" due the fact that the .20 caliber reduced my normally .177 cal 45 yard "max consistently effective range range" to roughly about 35 yard "max consistently effective range"!

Then a .22 cal barrel was bought for R9 thinking the increasing the "thump" would be more effective on squirrels. I was disappointed that the .22 pellet wasn't any more effective than the .20 cal much past my "30 yard zero distance". The reason was a "full penetrating" hard lead .177 boxed Crosman Premier THROUGH THE VITALS was just as effective as the .20/.22 however "off the mark" wasn't as good as a "hit through both lungs of the brain" was better. The issue for me was the "loopy trajectory of the heavire pellets that made range guestimation and holdover past about 35 yards more ctitical than my "distance guestimation skills" so I had a lot more "fringe hits" (the squirrels probably died later) but they were still lost. I do realize that a "DIANA 54 airking pro  SIDE LEAVER RED LAMINATE 22cal" is much more compatable to "heavier lead" but after shooting a .22 Beeman R1 and a .25 Patriot (owned by a couple friends), there was no way I would lug a heavy springer like that over the West Virginia hills! Matter of fact, I took my "heavy to me" .177 HW77 (my field target rifle for a while) on a couple squirrel hunts and ended up using my lighter break barrel!

Here are a couple critters I took with a single 7.9 grain Crosman Premier at 910ish fps (for years now I've been tuning the CPL for 850ish fps)..............


Well, after hunting with the .20 for one season and .22 for about 6 months I sold both the .20 and .22 barrels never to look back. LOL...my years of hunting squirrels with a .22 long rifle (120ish fpe) I had more than a couple take a 120+ fpe hit through both lungs and still travel several feet on the limb to get into a "tree hole". I really didn't much stock in the "kenetic energy theory" where a forum poster claimed that a Beeman Crow Magnum pellet would effectively increase the killzone of a squirrel by 50%. LOL....I also tested that "information" by using my .20 R9 and 12.81 grain Crow Magnum pellets at 750fps (16ish fpe) for a solid week taking note of the "hit to retrieve ratio". After that week was over my normal .177 cal ratio of 90+ % was reduced to an irresponsible -50%. The issue wasn't the effectiveness of the bellet because those hit solidly trough the lungs were "hammered", the issue was that past about 25 yards those backward lead badminton birdies "went their own way" and the pellet design DIDN'T increase the killzone size by 50%!   

[1coolcat]

That is what im asking.
Ive looked all over, ive asked in different ways.
But i cant find any information on how fast 22cal pellets can be pushed before they are no good.
The gamo swarm is saying 1300fps..but me know the truth.
I think between 1000fps, and 1200fps is a sweet spot for 22cal pellet 
If your use to shooting 600fps then i could see how jumping to 1200 is dramatic.
Its only 200fps more im seaking but in 22cal.
Get a pcp!..i dont want to pay for the compressor. 
I have centerfire and rimfire rifles.
And ya know im just not that impressed with pcps to invest in them.
I could have a custom centerfire built for the same price

[Doug Wall]

That is what im asking.
Ive looked all over, ive asked in different ways.
But i cant find any information on how fast 22cal pellets can be pushed before they are no good.
The gamo swarm is saying 1300fps..but me know the truth.
I think between 1000fps, and 1200fps is a sweet spot for 22cal pellet 
If your use to shooting 600fps then i could see how jumping to 1200 is dramatic.
Its only 200fps more im seaking but in 22cal.
Get a pcp!..i dont want to pay for the compressor. 
I have centerfire and rimfire rifles.
And ya know im just not that impressed with pcps to invest in them.
I could have a custom centerfire built for the same price

Actually, the general consensus seems to be that around 900 fps is the sweet spot for pellets. The trans-sonic range is terrible for accuracy for pellets The Gamo Swarm claim of 1300 fps is most certainly with the lightest pellets that they could find. If you really want to hit hard, go with a .25 cal., but of course the pellets will cost twice as much. The Hatsan 125 (I don't own one), in .25 claims 850 fps with lead pellets, with 34 FPE. Don't fall for the false need to get high velocities!

[c_m_shooter]

Springers are energy limited to around 20 ft lbs max.  A few get up into the low 20s, but not many.   If they do get the power, they aren't fun to shoot or accurate at that level.   750 to 800 fps is the sweet spot for a TX 200 accuracy wise no matter what caliber it is.

[mobilehomer]

First, obtain a chronograph. ALL of the 1200 fps claims are MARKETING bs. This too, UK limits fpe to 12 fpe. Those guys have no problem hunting successfully. What you really NEED is accuracy and consistency. A miss with a 45-70 won't kill a squirrel. A head shot with a .177 @ 12 fpe is DRT.

[Hoppalong Doc]

       Well, cool guy, my .22 cal TX200  shoots quite accurately at around 750 fps. If you're serious about kitchen them squirrels,  I think you outta climb them trees and act like a nut. Gets 'em purt near ever time now good buddy.

[Struckat]

According to Dilbert, marketing is just lies and alcohol.

1,200 fps is basically a lie for cheap guns to be sold in big box stores.

If you are shooting squirrels your TX is a good tool for the job at reasonable ranges.

If you want a 22 with more power, the Diana line may be worth a look. The 48, 52, 54 should get 22 pellets above 800 depending on the pellet weight.

That is a decent jump in power.

But just going to a 22 is not enough in itself. You need to be able to hit small targets within your operating range. Without accuracy, power is meaningless.

[splitbeing]

Cool, in addition to the experienced advice others have given, consider reframing your question in terms of how much penetration do I need rather than power.  Accuracy is number 1.  After that, penetration may matter more than power in a hunting situation.  A 16 fpe .177 dome pellet will penetrate much further than a .22 pellet at the same power level.  This is due to the .177 having the same amount of energy focused into a smaller surface area.  If you go to "Shadows Place", which is a gate here, you will see evidence and studies of skulls demonstrating the kogic of hus preference for a 15 fpe .177 springer over a .22 for raccoon head shots.

As others have said, .22 springers in the 700s to low 800s are most accurate in .22 typically while the mid to high 800s is tupical in.177 (maybe into low 900s).  All with dome pellets.