I've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet. Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.Much Aloha..
Quote from: Rattus58 on December 30, 2016, 10:47:22 PMI've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet. Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.Much Aloha.. Thanks for those comments!Can you please tell me which mould you bought and what OD you expect your castings to come out at, or if you will be sizing, which diameter you will be sizing to?I am assuming that as the knowledgeable shooter that you clearly are, you have slugged your barrel to order the right mould.TIA!HMOff topic.- Are you casting the hex section bullets for your Whitworth? :-)
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !
Quote from: Rob M on December 31, 2016, 12:17:14 AMWow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !Haha.... Could be... that's what I'm hoping anyway... Someone posted on the testing the Hatsan thread that he was getting 565 fps with the 45 grain JSB and 545 fps with the 50 grain JSB. Willfully disregarding potential aerodynamic and mechanical foibles to such thinking, extending that 20 fps loss per 5 grains would translate to a 72 fps loss... (68-50=18 divided by 5 = 3.6 times 20 = 72 from 545 = 473 give yourself some slack =460 fps) or...grains 68speed 460Bullet Diameter 0.3KE 31.94316794Momentum 0.138883339momentum_1 1.388833389Taylor 1.340571429which is what I'm anticipating if it don't become a barrel obstuction... ... Not to mention the economy of pouring my own lead... Much Aloha...
Quote from: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 03:05:23 PMQuote from: Rob M on December 31, 2016, 12:17:14 AMWow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !Haha.... Could be... that's what I'm hoping anyway... Someone posted on the testing the Hatsan thread that he was getting 565 fps with the 45 grain JSB and 545 fps with the 50 grain JSB. Willfully disregarding potential aerodynamic and mechanical foibles to such thinking, extending that 20 fps loss per 5 grains would translate to a 72 fps loss... (68-50=18 divided by 5 = 3.6 times 20 = 72 from 545 = 473 give yourself some slack =460 fps) or...grains 68speed 460Bullet Diameter 0.3KE 31.94316794Momentum 0.138883339momentum_1 1.388833389Taylor 1.340571429which is what I'm anticipating if it don't become a barrel obstuction... ... Not to mention the economy of pouring my own lead... Much Aloha... If you go to Chairgun Pro and fudge the numbers for the JSB .30 pellet to 67gr @ 460 FPS you get 31.4 FPE at the muzzle, 28.8 FPE @ 15 yds. Just an approximation, but it shows a 92% retention of energy at short range and a 1.75" drop @ 15 yds. Of course this doesn't account for the projectile design and BC. If you ever "go into production" on the project, I'd buy a few just to play with
I went to Lee Precision website (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/) and looked at Pistol molds and their BC for the various bullets they offer. Being that a round ball is very similar to the pellet, and the even modest trashcan bullet is a .07, better, I plugged in a .1000 Ballistic Coefficient and got some surprising numbers down range. Using even a .08 Ballistic Coefficient with this bullet... ASSUMING IT LEAVES THE BARREL AS CONJECTURED..... A Plus Plus.... Thanks for the reminder !!Aloha,Tom
Quote from: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 05:09:05 PM I went to Lee Precision website (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/) and looked at Pistol molds and their BC for the various bullets they offer. Being that a round ball is very similar to the pellet, and the even modest trashcan bullet is a .07, better, I plugged in a .1000 Ballistic Coefficient and got some surprising numbers down range. Using even a .08 Ballistic Coefficient with this bullet... ASSUMING IT LEAVES THE BARREL AS CONJECTURED..... A Plus Plus.... Thanks for the reminder !!Aloha,Tom The real world results will be interesting for sure. I saw a utube vid of a guy hitting silhouettes with a .45 ACP (230gr @ 750 FPS?) from as far as 200 yds. He said his holdover was about 4 feet at that range . Cheers,John
Quote from: Rob M on November 30, 2016, 11:32:31 PMQuote from: anti-squirrel on November 30, 2016, 11:04:19 PMThe down-range power is pretty awesome. I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done.. Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo. They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass. Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide. "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion" LOLwell said , it seems like everyone thinks a slow projectile is useless, but a slow 30 cal round will do some damage, all the energy is imparted on targetI've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet. Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.Much Aloha..
Quote from: anti-squirrel on November 30, 2016, 11:04:19 PMThe down-range power is pretty awesome. I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done.. Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo. They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass. Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide. "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion" LOLwell said , it seems like everyone thinks a slow projectile is useless, but a slow 30 cal round will do some damage, all the energy is imparted on target
The down-range power is pretty awesome. I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done.. Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo. They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass. Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide. "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion" LOL
My Norton has Whitworth sized fasteners. What a PITA! -Y
For close range I love my Hatsan 130s, under $200.00/199.00 I could not be happier. Within 30 yards it's dead on actuate and slaps with a hard slap ! Perfect for my backyard on a creek greenbelt. Skunks and possum's are quick kill with this affordable air rifle.Poor man's dream 😆
WAY TOO large a caliber for a "Practical" spring / ram piston air gun.Unique for sure and being sold under the disguise bigger is better ... in this case simply not true.JMO ...
Rattus58,You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel? Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.
Quote from: Mossonarock on April 16, 2019, 09:29:36 AMRattus58,You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel? Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents. I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.
Quote from: maraudinglizard on April 16, 2019, 10:24:25 AMQuote from: Mossonarock on April 16, 2019, 09:29:36 AMRattus58,You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel? Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents. I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.Where did you get your pellet mold from? A pellet is much easier to load into my barrel than the slug I've cast from NOE... at least for now...
Quote from: maraudinglizard on April 16, 2019, 10:24:25 AMQuote from: Mossonarock on April 16, 2019, 09:29:36 AMRattus58,You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel? Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents. I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.NO Kris...........YOU have LOTS of other guns ! Best Wishes - Tom