I've been watching this thread, I had a FWB 124D tuned by me, years ago, I like the FWB rifles, I have not owned a sport model, all I can say is for what you get from an HW rifle properly tuned and set up the way you like an air gun their hard to beat for the money! IMO because these FWB sports have been out for a good while now if I thought they were worth the extra money I would have bought 1 years ago! If you enjoy them that's fine and good for you, HW rifles have been around a long time, tons of parts and tuning options out there for them, also HW with the option of models coming with threaded barrels and moderators available here in the U.S. if noise is an issue to you? IMO these rifles are what I would choose, I had to make my rifles what they are, these threaded options were not available for the U.S. market when I built the rifles I have, just my thoughts, but FWB makes a fine gun but their limited-on offerings of their models and options JMO, and there's not really any tuning options offered for these guns accept what you create
Quote from: Mark 611 on November 20, 2022, 07:11:09 PMI've been watching this thread, I had a FWB 124D tuned by me, years ago, I like the FWB rifles, I have not owned a sport model, all I can say is for what you get from an HW rifle properly tuned and set up the way you like an air gun their hard to beat for the money! IMO because these FWB sports have been out for a good while now if I thought they were worth the extra money I would have bought 1 years ago! If you enjoy them that's fine and good for you, HW rifles have been around a long time, tons of parts and tuning options out there for them, also HW with the option of models coming with threaded barrels and moderators available here in the U.S. if noise is an issue to you? IMO these rifles are what I would choose, I had to make my rifles what they are, these threaded options were not available for the U.S. market when I built the rifles I have, just my thoughts, but FWB makes a fine gun but their limited-on offerings of their models and options JMO, and there's not really any tuning options offered for these guns accept what you create The FWB Sports would be well suited for folks that can make parts and tune the gun to their desire. Once you understand the basics, you can tune renewable parts or gun however you want:- The spring has to fit inside the receiver and piston, spring guide/top-hat should be snug inside the spring .... when cocked the spring needs to be able to fit inside the piston or usually the piston won't engage the trigger. Then, its just a matter of "what shot cycle and power you want". Being able to improvise is important unless you want to pay someone $$$ for a tune all the time. As far as parts, the only thing I've really used a lot of is forearm screws, trigger screws and barrel pivot shims. Most of the nice German guns will shoot for years, without needing anything except springs, top-hats, piston seals and lube. Usually, the only time nice Springer breaks is because you've done something very wrong or stupid. The only question I have is "Are the average FWB barrels superior to Weihrauch?" Otherwise, I can tune a Weihrauch to be at least as good - and the difference is really just style ..............
"Better"... a relative term when discussing guns, for sure.Re: "value for money", anyone buying new precision German air rifles for their pricing benefits may have ditched their economics class. These guns belong in the "nice to have" category, where a difference of $100 isn't typically the lone deciding factor. A buyer can grab a Hatsan/Gamo/et al rifle that shoots fantastic and last years for half as much, if "good enough" and saving money is the goal. FWB royally screwed up with the Sport, pricing it so far above the market (2X an HW95 when it came out) that price actually did factor into its premature demise. Nowadays at $595 it's "in the mix" with the other German springers, still higher but will continue to snag nostalgic FWB homers like myself who appreciate their accuracy and put up with their quirky design choices.
Hey Ed,I got my HF 14" lathe for $450 back in 2014 (33%) off.Spent a week trying to improve it's precision and never looked back. Hence, for the price of a HW95, you get the machine which can tune anything.Every once in awhile I have a precision project and need to tweak the lathe for additional performance. I never bought a better one, but am always tempted.Here's my mess of a work area:
Jim, Plan to open the Sport up in a couple of weeks and give an HW80 kit a try.Would the stock HW80 FAC kit be the Vortek PG4 HO or ARH Deluxe Hi Power HW80 kit? Also wonder if the CountryStore Titan #2 spring with their matching synthetic spring guide to be a good option?Thanks -- Jeff
Quote from: SpiralGroove on November 21, 2022, 03:52:33 PMHey Ed,I got my HF 14" lathe for $450 back in 2014 (33%) off.Spent a week trying to improve it's precision and never looked back. Hence, for the price of a HW95, you get the machine which can tune anything.Every once in awhile I have a precision project and need to tweak the lathe for additional performance. I never bought a better one, but am always tempted.Here's my mess of a work area: The biggest gripe I had with my HF lathe was the method for aligning the tail stock. LOL, removing the tail stock to turn it over and loosen the "retaining screw" and "guestimate" the amount of movement, re-tighten the retaining screw, remount the tail stock and then find that the alignment by eye was off and needed to be aligned again adnausium till it was "right"!I replaced the HF lathe with an 8x14 LatheMaster because some reviews claimed it was "pre-adjusted". It was actually pretty good out of the crate however when I decided to "scrape the ways" to reduce some "heavier cut chatter" I found that the Chinese LM sliding surfaces weren't very consistent. I blued my surface plate and after sliding the gibs into the compound there was very little blue transferred to the rather rough machining. Well, I took a couple hours per day for a week to get about 75% "bluing coverage" on the mating surfaces but it was much better than the factory 25%ish mating surfaces. The Chinese bench top lathes really aren't very rigid which does affect the time needed to cut parts however scraping the sliding surfaces did reduce the chatter a lot!Here is the Lathe Master (no longer available) with a couple pics of accessories made after the way scraping and replacing the spindle ball bearings with tapered roller bearings. The belt drive LatheMaster doesn't have a lot of torque when the part nears the "max swing size" so I ended up with a box of razor sharp "swarf" after cutting a back plate for a new chuck............
Quote from: jimk1963 on November 21, 2022, 03:11:51 PM"Better"... a relative term when discussing guns, for sure.Re: "value for money", anyone buying new precision German air rifles for their pricing benefits may have ditched their economics class. These guns belong in the "nice to have" category, where a difference of $100 isn't typically the lone deciding factor. A buyer can grab a Hatsan/Gamo/et al rifle that shoots fantastic and last years for half as much, if "good enough" and saving money is the goal. FWB royally screwed up with the Sport, pricing it so far above the market (2X an HW95 when it came out) that price actually did factor into its premature demise. Nowadays at $595 it's "in the mix" with the other German springers, still higher but will continue to snag nostalgic FWB homers like myself who appreciate their accuracy and put up with their quirky design choices. I always try to buy the best bang for the buck products as long as the results are satisfactory. I chose to use Harbor Freight for many things that can be made much better or are satisfactory if you know what your doing (remember - this work isn't my profession). I use Ryobi instead of Milwaukee, DeWalt or Makita - even though I really like Makita.However, Hatsan and Gamo just aren't precision guns - I tuned at least 15 Hatsan's and after a certain point, their basic design, triggers, parts fit cannot be improved .... which is frustrating.Hence, one HW50S is a far better value than two Hatsan 95's or one Hatsan 95 and one HW135. Once you work on the gun's you will understand this difference.If you don't care much about accuracy or function -> the Hatsan's and Gamo's make perfect sense, .................. but they don't compare to a HF lathe in terms of value.
Quote from: nced on November 21, 2022, 07:31:53 PMQuote from: SpiralGroove on November 21, 2022, 03:52:33 PMHey Ed,I got my HF 14" lathe for $450 back in 2014 (33%) off.Spent a week trying to improve it's precision and never looked back. Hence, for the price of a HW95, you get the machine which can tune anything.Every once in awhile I have a precision project and need to tweak the lathe for additional performance. I never bought a better one, but am always tempted.Here's my mess of a work area: The biggest gripe I had with my HF lathe was the method for aligning the tail stock. LOL, removing the tail stock to turn it over and loosen the "retaining screw" and "guestimate" the amount of movement, re-tighten the retaining screw, remount the tail stock and then find that the alignment by eye was off and needed to be aligned again adnausium till it was "right"!I replaced the HF lathe with an 8x14 LatheMaster because some reviews claimed it was "pre-adjusted". It was actually pretty good out of the crate however when I decided to "scrape the ways" to reduce some "heavier cut chatter" I found that the Chinese LM sliding surfaces weren't very consistent. I blued my surface plate and after sliding the gibs into the compound there was very little blue transferred to the rather rough machining. Well, I took a couple hours per day for a week to get about 75% "bluing coverage" on the mating surfaces but it was much better than the factory 25%ish mating surfaces. The Chinese bench top lathes really aren't very rigid which does affect the time needed to cut parts however scraping the sliding surfaces did reduce the chatter a lot!Here is the Lathe Master (no longer available) with a couple pics of accessories made after the way scraping and replacing the spindle ball bearings with tapered roller bearings. The belt drive LatheMaster doesn't have a lot of torque when the part nears the "max swing size" so I ended up with a box of razor sharp "swarf" after cutting a back plate for a new chuck............ Wow, nice setups you and SpiralGroove have. I tried using my wood lathe with a sliding vise and jig to hold the cutter, and was not thrilled with the result to say the least. You guys did it right!
Jim, thanks so much for all the info and time (and $$) you've put into this! I'm going to give the Titan XS spring/guide combo a shot (just ordered) and will post results when complete. Jeff
Thanks James for a superb piece of work.You did start with a stout spring, so, no surprises there. That diameter of wire is only used in the HW80, the large sliding chamber DIANA's and the D350, so, yes it is a Magnum Spring.Good job!HM
Thanks Hector! Yes, it's amazing how much difference in energy .006" extra wire thickness makes. I think I prefer these slightly thicker springs - for the same energy, the spring can be shorter, easing the cocking force while also making for a smoother shot cycle. Not sure this will be a "welcome" solution for some FWB Sport owners, but at least I can confirm they do have options if they can't find FWB OEM parts down the road. Just cut down these heftier springs to suit the power level designed for the gun, use an HW80-compatible 30mm piston seal, FWB 124-compatible breech seal, HW80 rear guide, and you're well on your way to a tuned beauty. Per your helpful advice re: the Anschutz LG 380, I stuck with PTFE (ultimox 226) for this gun and it's working fantastic. And sooooo much easier to work with.