Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
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Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
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Topic: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke? (Read 12220 times))
darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
on:
September 24, 2011, 04:33:49 PM »
Are these rifles known for having (really) tight chokes? I thought I read that somewhere. My reason for asking is I've been trying to find a pellet that groups well in my Pneuma. Based on the wide grouping I've been getting, I think the barrel is choked pretty tight for pellets with a 5.53 pellet head. I tried H&N Ftts at 5.54mm, and they were not grouping well at all. I took a baby step and tried the JSB jumbo and jumbo heavier with 5.53mm pellet head. No joy there either. I cna't say I know what the head diameter is on the RWS Superdome pellets (14.5grain) but they group much better than the other's I've mentioned. I'd like to try a heavier pellet in this powerhouse rifle so I"ll look around for a pellet head diameter closer to 5.5mm. That aside, what have you seen with your Pneuma/Hatsan .22 rifle. Do larger diameter pellet heads scatter from your gun?
thanks you,
darryl
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sr500
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Posts: 142
Real Name: Tommy
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #1 on:
September 24, 2011, 04:45:13 PM »
My AT44 shoots realy great with HN baracuda.
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darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #2 on:
September 24, 2011, 06:56:13 PM »
hey sr, what is the pellet head size? I seem to be having problems with 5.53mm heads.
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sr500
Plinker
Posts: 142
Real Name: Tommy
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #3 on:
September 25, 2011, 02:01:03 AM »
Hi. The pellet head size is 5,50mm on the Baracuda. But it allso shoots super with 5,52mm JSB 16grains. Tommy.
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darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #4 on:
September 25, 2011, 12:39:28 PM »
thanks Tommy,
It seems that big heads are not the way to go with this powerhouse. The 5.52 was a size I'd thought about trying next.
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My Guns: Parker-Hale Phoenix Under-lever Under lever multi-shot/.22, .177 Crosman 1701P target pistol (in a Crosman carbine stock, and shrouded) Taipan Mutant Short in .22
sr500
Plinker
Posts: 142
Real Name: Tommy
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #5 on:
September 25, 2011, 01:21:21 PM »
They are realy great guns. Iam thinking of buying a 25cal to. Tommy.
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Rescue912
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 727
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #6 on:
September 25, 2011, 06:29:09 PM »
Mine loves RWS Superdomes. Since they are available at Wally-World I decided to try them and really glad I did. One ragged hole at 35 meters.
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darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #7 on:
September 25, 2011, 08:57:31 PM »
I'd been trying pellets with a higher bc (more rounded domed-head pellets), but I seem to have fallen into buying these pellets with heads that are too large for the choke of the barrel. Accuracy with these has been missing. At least those pellets work well in my P-rod. 900 rounds should last the P for a while.
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sr500
Plinker
Posts: 142
Real Name: Tommy
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #8 on:
September 26, 2011, 01:18:15 AM »
I have only tried RWS superfield, little more weight then the Superdome.,but they didnt work in my AT44. Tommy.
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Stefan
Plinker
Posts: 263
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #9 on:
October 12, 2011, 07:01:55 PM »
a friend of mine has AT44-10 as me, but his is with wooden stock. and he has some serious problems with accuracy. he took a few pictures of pellets after beeing shot. I'm not sure, but this doesn't look good. He also tried single pellet loading, among every other trick in the book, but no luck with it.
What do you think, whats the source of this problem?
thanks
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darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #10 on:
October 12, 2011, 08:54:05 PM »
Hi Stephan,
My Elite 10 (AT44-10) is being sent back to me. I was talking with Mike of Umarex (the importer and service facility for the rifle) and was told the rifle is performing normally, but it is not as accurate in using the JSB pellets as it is when shooting the RWS Miesterkuglen. Their shooting range is 10 meters.
Anyway, the pictures of your friend's pellets show deep grooves on the pellet head and on the pellet skirt (from the barrel rifling). It's as if the barrel is chewing up the pellets. I don't think the rifling should make such deep cuts into the pellets. I hope someone else chimes in on this.
Also,I do not know what pellet your friend is using, but either it's head and skirt are way too big or the choke on the barrel of his rifle is is way too tight. I'd guess the pellets are being deformed as they come from the barrel. Again, looking at the photos, the pellets slammed into the wood sideways instead of head first. So they are tumbling from being deformed. That's my guess anyway.
Stephan how do these pellets shoot in your rifle? If you haven't tried them, you might want to so you can help your friend find the problem. If they shoot OK in your rifle, is there some way you can try different pellets in your rifle, then in his rifle? I hope you report back here and let us know what you've found out.
I'll tell you this much. If the pellets shoot fine in your rifle, you need to check the choke on his rifle. I'd expect it will be harder to push that pellet through his barrel than it would be to push it through your barrel Again,if the pellet shoot well in your rifle. Also check the crown on his barrel too. Maybe it needs a bit of polishing or reworking. But those rifling marks on the pellets in the pictures seem to tell the story. We need an expert on this. Anyone? I'll put the call out for help.
I intend to lightly polish my barrel's rifling when I get it back. Maybe that will help it.
darryl
«
Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 08:56:24 PM by darryl
»
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Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #11 on:
October 12, 2011, 09:31:24 PM »
Without knowing the history of the gun the obvious is the barrel is undersize or you have a bad batch of oversized pellets.
There should be fine rifling marks around head and skirts of pellets but obviously those are very heavy rifling marks not to mention the depth.
If someone has the same model gun have them push a pellet through the barrel and take a picture of it. Do the same with yours and compare the depth of rifling marks.
Best of luck.
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Stefan
Plinker
Posts: 263
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #12 on:
October 13, 2011, 01:48:32 AM »
These are JSB 18.13 grains. From my AT, they are awesome (I get tight group at 70-80 yards) and these were shot from aprox. 20 yards. Its the same tin of pellets.
I suspect that its the crown that's bad. I'll probably have it with me tomorrow, so I'll have a better picture of it.
If the choke is too tight, what can be done?
PS its brand new. But sending it back for a repair/exchange would cost almost as buying another.
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darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #13 on:
October 13, 2011, 07:50:50 AM »
Stephan, from what I'm learning about such things, I'd say get some bore paste and lap the choke area, then use some polishing paste on it. Don't take this step lightly. I'm hoping someone will chime in and give you more information on doing this. But I'd say first determine the length of the choke area in the barrel (remove the barrel to do this from the breech end, pushing a pellet forward towards the muzzle). But try the simple things first; check the crown. I have to say that looking at the deep rifling marks in those pellets, I don't think the crown is causing that. One more simple thing to try: pellets with smaller diameter skirts and heads. It could be just that simple. No two rifles are ever alike, especially the barrels, it seems. What pellet head diameter are those JSBs you and he are using?
Don't give up.
darryl
edit: I've asked GTA members to drop in here and chime in.
«
Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 08:17:33 AM by darryl
»
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My Guns: Parker-Hale Phoenix Under-lever Under lever multi-shot/.22, .177 Crosman 1701P target pistol (in a Crosman carbine stock, and shrouded) Taipan Mutant Short in .22
Stefan
Plinker
Posts: 263
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #14 on:
October 13, 2011, 03:23:28 PM »
ok, I ve found the problem. Its the o rings on the barrel that are messed up, and therefore at has problem with air. When using 12 fpe air cylinder, gun shoots great, but on full power cylinder, its all over the place.
Here are the pictures my friend sent me. AT will be in my hands this Saturday. I'll try to work on it, but a few hints and maybe a link to some strip down guide would be nice
these were replaced by new ones, but after inserted back to the breech, they got torn up again.
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Gary
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 624
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #15 on:
October 13, 2011, 03:45:32 PM »
Stefan,I can't help you with a tear down guide but you might want to check for burrs inside the breech and lube the orings with a dab of silicon grease before assembly.
Gary
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Stefan
Plinker
Posts: 263
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #16 on:
October 13, 2011, 03:46:47 PM »
Well I might not even need to tear it down, the burrs I'm after, they are the ones causing this, that's for sure.
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darryl
Expert
Posts: 1871
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #17 on:
October 13, 2011, 03:59:45 PM »
Stephan be sure to lubricate those rings even when you take care of the burrs. But how are those burrs effecting the pellets if they are also tearing up those o-rings? At least the barrel is easy to remove.
darryl
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Stefan
Plinker
Posts: 263
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #18 on:
October 13, 2011, 04:00:44 PM »
pellets are not affected by that, its the crown for sure, I ll have that sorted out also. And post some groupings
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DMikeM
Expert
Posts: 1409
Real Name: Mike
Re: Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?
«
Reply #19 on:
October 13, 2011, 04:03:32 PM »
Air pressure should not cause the pellets to get so chewed up. Really looks like a very bad crown or choke. My Ruger Air Mag spit pellets out that looked just like that. Found the crown was cut badly.
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Pneuma/Hatsan AT 44/tight choke?