Crosman 160 (vintage?)

[Methuselah]

I waited for the end of the auction to bid and got it for the starting bid price (translation, nobody else wanted it). All told gave almost $170 for it. Too much?

Seller had a cap on it he was keeping, so I presume the original leaked. He also said it held pressure three weeks. And so before trying it out I put a new o-ring on the cap.

One cartridge. First was anemic, OK, second over chrono 600 fps. Rounds 5 through 14 at a target, 15 at 25 yards. I'm thinking at least 30 good shots (and counting) with two cartridges.

It is missing the butt plate and peep, trigger is NICE.

I know it's junk ammo and it might be capable of much better, but I was solely tempted to adjust the sights anyway. Barrel probably could use some cleaning...

[Goose]

That's a nice find.  Congrats!  It shoots rather hard too.

It's one of the early models.  Not sure if it's the first or second.  The last few years model had the cast trigger guard.  Give the barrel a good cleaning and you'll likely find it's accurate with the right pellet.  I've never had much luck with pointed pellets.

The BStaley mod will tame it's bark some and give you a lot more shots per cartridge set.

Cheers,

J~

[Methuselah]

That's a nice find.  Congrats!  It shoots rather hard too.

Thanks Jeff!

Thanks for chiming in on what to expect. I read someone getting 11 good shots on both cartridges. Right now I'm at 15 on one new (and one spent) cartridge...

It's one of the early models.  Not sure if it's the first or second.  The last few years model had the cast trigger guard.  Give the barrel a good cleaning and you'll likely find it's accurate with the right pellet.  I've never had much luck with pointed pellets.

Fingers crossed on different pellets doing better,  I just started with them because they were cheap. My Remington Express shoots them accurately so I was hoping to get lucky twice...

The BStaley mod will tame it's bark some and give you a lot more shots per cartridge set.

Cheers,

J~

BStaley ... I had to search that one. Three hundred "pages", no nuts-and-bolts posts first or last page of links. Google turned up this;

https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55680

It's mostly pcp stuff, yes? Can some change be had with hammer spring tweaking only? I'm not sure I'd want to "fix it if it ain't broke", at least not until I'm better acquainted with it...

[Goose]

Glad you're happy with it, Steve.  They're great rifles and just a little tinkering makes them even better.  Yours is an early model.  Could be from as early as '55.  I think that they were trying to maximize co2 cartridge sales with the valving on that model.

The QB78 is a copy of the later model design.  The mod I mentioned isn't much used for Co2 guns, but it seems to really work.  The dog no longer goes in the house when I start shooting, so it's much quieter than it was.  I retricted the transfer port some, too.

Here's a thread I put together a while back on it.  Over ninety-three shots from a pair of cartridges ain't bad!  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=200209

Cheers,

J~

[Methuselah]

Hi Jeff,

VERY interesting link along with its hierarchy (I think I followed it through 4 additional threads)

Your QB78 is based off these 160's, correct?

I think I've seen your approach in other forms, and as also indicated in the link(s), accomplished using combinations of methods.

There was mention of previous tune, I'd love to hear more about what you think was done to it? I'm assuming some was polishing?

You said you floated the barrel, I'm not familiar with how you could do that on these particular airguns.

I've found myself with so many "new" (to me) airguns I've kinda staged activity while I'm soul searching to decide what features I appreciate most. It sounds ridiculous to say it, but after shooting predominantly and 880 for over a decade the choices and even "platforms" are overwhelming. Maybe that's a good thing.

On these QB78, XS60, and 160's I'm seeing maximizing fps or shot count with transfer port "adjustment", hammer and spring weight/tension, o-ring(s) "absorbing" some hammer force. If there was more I don't recall it whist writing...

I think I recall one post where restriction was accomplished by filling the steel port insert with solder and drilling the port at an angle.

Again Jeff, thanks you for the great input! I've already shopped Amazon for some 1/4" Teflon rod material (for check valve possibilities too).

[Methuselah]

Ended (or at least interrupted) my 2 week lazy streak from having the sniffles and mild cough by teeing up the pump arm in the vise and changing the cup. Not as hard as the first time.

Then cleaned the the barrel, lapped it a bit and gave it a light oiling.

Inspection reveals a slight set of scratch marks just north of the rear sight. Crown looks very good, will still check the leade before putting it back together. Still waiting on parts though.

Edit: pushing a pellet through hit a stopping point where those scratches were, and bit more pressure and through it went. It had good markings and no damages.

Decision time, bronze brush and drill followed by mop and flitz at just the bad spot. Opinions please?

[Methuselah]

Sad news?

I reckon strike 1 for vintage

It dawned on me I needed to push another pellet. Marking the distance, I think you know where that "aberration" was ... directly under the first rear sight screws.

Not sure what to do next, perhaps remove the sight and get some upward leverage under that screw head? No, 1st is have me a good cry 

Stay tuned?

[eeler1]

Is that rear site screw a thru-hole?  As in you can poke a toothpick into the barrel?  Some of the 140's were thru-holes and I always suspected it would affect accuracy.  Tho I never was able to prove it.

[Methuselah]

Is that rear site screw a thru-hole?  As in you can poke a toothpick into the barrel?  Some of the 140's were thru-holes and I always suspected it would affect accuracy.  Tho I never was able to prove it.

That some went through is actually good news. These don't, but since it's possible it's was like this from the factory I reckon I should finish resealing it and see how it does. Right now I'm still considering options.

I tried calling Crosman but gave up with the long hold time, I'm wondering if they have a similar 20" barrel.

Edit: I've emailed to ask...

[Goose]

Hi Jeff,

VERY interesting link along with its hierarchy (I think I followed it through 4 additional threads)

Your QB78 is based off these 160's, correct?

I think I've seen your approach in other forms, and as also indicated in the link(s), accomplished using combinations of methods.

There was mention of previous tune, I'd love to hear more about what you think was done to it? I'm assuming some was polishing?

You said you floated the barrel, I'm not familiar with how you could do that on these particular airguns.

I've found myself with so many "new" (to me) airguns I've kinda staged activity while I'm soul searching to decide what features I appreciate most. It sounds ridiculous to say it, but after shooting predominantly and 880 for over a decade the choices and even "platforms" are overwhelming. Maybe that's a good thing.

On these QB78, XS60, and 160's I'm seeing maximizing fps or shot count with transfer port "adjustment", hammer and spring weight/tension, o-ring(s) "absorbing" some hammer force. If there was more I don't recall it whist writing...

I think I recall one post where restriction was accomplished by filling the steel port insert with solder and drilling the port at an angle.

Again Jeff, thanks you for the great input! I've already shopped Amazon for some 1/4" Teflon rod material (for check valve possibilities too).

Steve,

Yes, the QB78 is a slightly improved copy of the 160.  Tim did some tuning while having them made up.  All mods to them apply to the 160 as well.  If you pull the barrel band off you'll be able to see if the barrel free floats. 

I really wouldn't sweat the slight rough spot in the bore.  A buddy of mine handed me his new qb78 (in .177) to clean up and I found a rather large boo-boo in the rifling about six inches down the bore from the breech.  Once it was clean and I'd gotten the burrs out of the transfer port, it shot into less than a third of an inch at ten yards with Crosman Destroyer pellets.  Just try some different pellets from a good rest and see what it likes.  Probably Crosman Premiers like mine does.

I really prefer to keep things stock if possible.  That's why I opted to drop an o-ring in to buffer the hammer instead of lightening the hammer, shortening the spring, etc.  I'm a simple southern man and like for things to be easy to deal with.  Here's a pic of the o-ring from where the receiver sits.



Roll Tide,

J~ 

[Methuselah]

Senior moment, barrel issue is the 140, I have not done anything (yet?) to the 160 except the CO2 cap o-ring.

I suppose that barrel issue is generic and would apply to any barrel. The 140 "thread" was in "installments" so for the sake of completeness I may copy over or link...

Of the 160, as I said I've not torn into it, but I'm considering it as I agree it's gotta be wasting a lot of CO2 at maybe 15 full "regulated" shots on one full one empty cartridge.

Jeff, you mentioned the barrel band and floating. I've seen 10/22 "tuning" where the band got either support added between barrel and band, or band was removed. Is this floating along the same line of thought?

If I haven't posted a pic of its first (only) group, I'll do that. I went back and measured, I'm thinking it was about an inch and a quarter with the fliers. At some point soon I'll try better ammo - I'm "balancing" that prospect with other considations like leaking CO2 (I had shot it down over a relatively short few days), and parts due in for the completely broken down 140...

Thanks again for the great input on modding these 160's and XS60C's. I have the latter, tuned by MM awaiting a more basic CO2 cap (I couldn't get parts to try and stop the original from leaking).