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Author Topic: Texan explosion.  (Read 5786 times))

Offline kkarmical

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2020, 11:41:28 AM »
I would like to know how this happened also but I more concerned about the shooter. Has anyone heard an update on his condition?

Remember,  he's one of us. By us, I'm referring to being an airgun enthusiast.
I'm praying for him and his family.

Dan

+1
Just really hope this person is doing all right, well all things considered.
Most important thing right now, imo..
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Offline Doug Wall

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2020, 12:13:04 PM »
Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2020, 12:39:30 PM »
We can guess all we want.... The vendor said,

Quote
The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.

Unintentional filling with, or connecting to a tank containing, the wrong gas is impossible, because CGA fittings are designed to prevent that.... I simply stated that those speculating about, reporting or investigating this incident, should keep that fact foremost in their minds.... Note that there was no mention of a "dive shop", or the shooter's bottle being filled with the wrong gas.... The reference (posted to deflect responsibility from the vendor) was to "picking up a bottle from a welding shop"....

I feel sorry for the person injured, and hope that we will eventually hear the CORRECT details of what happened.... but I have my doubts....

Bob
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 01:06:29 PM by rsterne »
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Offline avator

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2020, 01:24:16 PM »
All other things aside.....
Could someone in the know please report the current status of the injured person?
Or point us to somewhere we can check for ourselves?
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2020, 01:33:14 PM »
Why is it taking so long for the facts to leak out ? .....why no updates ?
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Offline Blowpipe Sam

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2020, 01:39:33 PM »
I'm not finding any reports of this on the internet.   First and foremost I have tied a prayer to the wheel for the injured party.
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Offline RichH

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2020, 02:20:10 PM »
Why is it taking so long for the facts to leak out ? .....why no updates ?

Maybe direct this to Doug Noble or MJP, they were involved in the original posting. Seems Doug Noble has access to the FaceBook group as his name is in the original posting.

Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.

But the optional 90ci Ar Venturi CF tank will change it to 4500psi
https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html
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Offline MJP

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2020, 03:59:42 PM »
Well, it is interesting that this happened in your corner of the globe and I am the only one to hear the news?
 
For what I have heard the poor guy lost an eye and got half of his face blown off along with broken bones in his right arm.
But that is all second hand knowledge and I'm not part of the social media that it was first reported in.

Should make in to some dot  report if its indeed pressure or gas related accident. At least that what happens here if something like that happens.
No matter how it happened the dangers are real when using high pressures, and all who use imported / asian made parts should once and awhile stop to consider how its made.

Not referring to any part or vendor but as the whole hobby scene of parts and equipment.
Stay safe and have fun.

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Offline mrbulk

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2020, 03:01:44 AM »
Ok, let's all back it down a notch or two. Virtually everything in the previous postings are based on the word of the poster.
Sadly, even the original report is even based on a social media posting. I don't find any of if worth one GTA member disrespecting another.
We've experienced this here before and lost some great members over it.
How about we just wait and see if we get some real provable facts?

Well said, Sir Bill. Cooler heads can only prevail if there indeed Are cooler heads among us. :D :D :D
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Offline mikeyb

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2020, 04:43:04 AM »

Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.

But the optional 90ci Ar Venturi CF tank will change it to 4500psi
https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html


The specs on the linked Texan are still 3000psi (200 BAR) max. The CF fill bottle is rated for 4500psi (300 BAR). The newer Texans with the attached CF bottles are rated for max 3625psi (250 BAR). Filling either rifle up to the full pressure of a 4500psi CF fill tank would be unwise.

I've exploded 1 and 2 liter SODA bottles with expanding liquid nitrogen (stupid kid stuff decades ago). The resulting explosions (guessing only ~250 psi) were much larger than expected. Hearing damage and easily loss of fingers if anyone was close or holding it when it popped. I can't imagine how bad a 4000+ psi aluminum bottle explosion would be.

Hopefully we can all learn something about high pressure air safety when the real facts surface.

Best wishes to the injured party.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 05:07:21 AM by mikeyb »
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Offline RichH

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2020, 07:55:42 AM »

Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.

But the optional 90ci Ar Venturi CF tank will change it to 4500psi
https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html


The specs on the linked Texan are still 3000psi (200 BAR) max. The CF fill bottle is rated for 4500psi (300 BAR). The newer Texans with the attached CF bottles are rated for max 3625psi (250 BAR). Filling either rifle up to the full pressure of a 4500psi CF fill tank would be unwise.

I've exploded 1 and 2 liter SODA bottles with expanding liquid nitrogen (stupid kid stuff decades ago). The resulting explosions (guessing only ~250 psi) were much larger than expected. Hearing damage and easily loss of fingers if anyone was close or holding it when it popped. I can't imagine how bad a 4000+ psi aluminum bottle explosion would be.

Hopefully we can all learn something about high pressure air safety when the real facts surface.

Best wishes to the injured party.

That would be pretty silly to get a gun with a 4500psi tank that you could only fill to 3000psi don't ya think? By putting the 4500 psi CF tank on the gun you INCREASE the fill pressure to 4500psi. (It has a regulator with burst disk on it)

edit to add - The gun itself does not hold any pressure at all. It is in the tank.

This is the valve he apparently has on his gun. Not the rating
http://www.africanairordnance.com/424820687/product/3535440/moav-2021-texan-ss-457-super-valve-4500psi-bottle?catid=625616
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 08:00:45 AM by RichH »
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Offline RichH

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2020, 08:44:17 AM »
I wasn't here at the time, but it appears that the same name as in the Original Post here "reported" an AAO valve explosion 3 years ago.......and that report was never substantiated. The same google search tells me that AAO and this reporter from 3 years ago are kinda like "competitors" for AF guns mods.

Side note: I don't know either, nor have I done any business with either.

Personally I think I would wait till more evidence appears that this incident actually happened before commenting negatively about the product in question.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123517.0
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Offline Licespray

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2020, 10:00:44 AM »
I tank holding 4500PSI won’t fill something to 4500psi unless you let it.

Anyways - prayers to the victim, may he recover quickly and be able to kill the speculations.
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Offline RichH

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2020, 11:22:48 AM »
and it appears, just as happened 3 years ago, the original FB post is not there. Odd how never any names, or places or any kind of confirm able info gets posted.
https://www.facebook.com/Lethal-Air-airgun-hunters-121573061908882
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Offline TPL

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2020, 11:35:47 AM »
Does this seem to you nothing have happened? Whatever the reason is, it must be cleared out.

No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened
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Offline MJP

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2020, 11:38:55 AM »
Ok, so you are accusing me as a liar is that it?
Lets rewind some of the details from the past, I was one of the people that confirmed some of the AAO original valve dimensions and calculations and deemed it unsafe as it was.

Doug did not post this post, he only gave me the information. And I acted as I did feel like acting from that information what I knew.

So what is your motive on attacking Doug Noble from something he did not do?

Associate for AAO or lethal air?

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Offline RichH

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2020, 12:01:21 PM »
Ok, so you are accusing me as a liar is that it?
Lets rewind some of the details from the past, I was one of the people that confirmed some of the AAO original valve dimensions and calculations and deemed it unsafe as it was.

Doug did not post this post, he only gave me the information. And I acted as I did feel like acting from that information what I knew.

So what is your motive on attacking Doug Noble from something he did not do?

Associate for AAO or lethal air?

Marko

Maybe it's your understanding of the English language, but if not please show where Doug Noble has been attacked. Looks to me that this post, along with the post from 3 years ago was done as an "attack" on AAO. Like I said, never had any dealing with either, just on the outside looking in and letting you know what it "looks like" from out here. I have no reason to "attack" either. Think about what outsiders are seeing. These are the only two posts about "incidents" with the AAO valve I've been able to find, "Doug Noble" is "connected" to each of these posts, and neither has been substantiated at this point. What are we supposed to think?

And as for accusing you of lying, it just looks to me like you are posting "hearsay". Maybe since Doug originally sent this to you, and you posted it, you can go back to Doug for updates?
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Offline bear air

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2020, 12:48:40 PM »
Losing what's important with this bickering and finger pointing. What's important is:1 If the victim is ok 2. What the actual cause was so it can be prevented from happening in the future.
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2020, 01:06:48 PM »
Well,

Lethal Air confirmed that something indeed happened, and tried to put a spin on it, that btw isn't holding water.......the post never said "nothing happened"
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Offline rsterne

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Re: Texan explosion.
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2020, 01:07:55 PM »
I also was (one of 4 people) involved in looking at the AAO valve design from 3 years ago, in a review requested by the GTA staff, who wanted to make sure that products promoted here on the GTA were not dangerous.... We all deemed the design questionable, and recommended changes in dimensions and materials (though we did not offer a "design" as such, not our job).... I have no idea if those were implemented, but the manufacturer seemed to offer genuine concern that his valve be safe, although we were never privy to any changes in dimensions or materials that took place, nor what, if any, testing was done to prove the safety of the new, improved valve....

Fast forward to about a year ago when the plenum (designed for an Air Force platform) failed, and the only analysis possible was from the photos of the failed part, as the (non-AAO) manufacturer of that plenum was less than forthcoming, and would supply no dimensions.... IMO, they seemed to have a poor understanding of the safety margins that should be built into parts intended to hold air pressure, and I have never seen any information about the updated parts.... either for the design, materials, or testing....

This most recent failure has, regrettably, resulted in severe injuries to the shooter, and I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.... I have no idea what parts failed, or why, but the explanation offered in this thread by the vendor to deflect criticism of their products is confusing.... It is in conflict with known facts about how welding tanks are filled by the industry in a standardized way, and how those tank valves are specifically designed to prevent unintended use of the wrong gas.... Oxygen and Helium tanks simply cannot be interchanged, the CGA threads on the output side of the valve are completely different....

Every time we have a failure of a PCP component, the event is shrouded in secrecy and confusion.... I can understand the potential liability involved for the manufacturers, but when given genuine offers to help analyze what happened and why, they repeatedly hide behind claims of "proprietary information" the disclosure of which would place them at a "competitive disadvantage".... There is virtually never any real data, dimensions, photos or testing information supplied to those trying to help, so I have given up on trying.... To put it simply, I am not the "PCP Police"....

My wish for the PCP industry is that those modifying or manufacturing parts adhere to industry "best practices", including destructive testing of samples of their production items to insure items sold to the public are safe, and have the appropriate safety margins (minimum of 3.5 times the MSWP to failure for the ASME standards).... You can bet the "big boys" do that, and it is about time the "little guys" started taking this more seriously.... This is one of the primary reasons I refuse to make or sell parts to anyone else.... In case you didn't do the math, that means that items designed for use at 4500 psi should not fail below 16,000 psi.... This means the entire system that part is intended to be used in; eg. if you are building a part for an Air Force airgun, all the parts subjected to pressure, including those when the gun is fired (barrel, breech, lockup mechanism, etc.) should be capable of withstanding 16,000 psi.... To do less, IMO, leaves the manufacturer open to liability.... but then I am neither an Engineer or Lawyer....  ::)

Bob
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 01:25:37 PM by rsterne »
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