GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Non Productive Posts Gate => Topic started by: MJP on September 25, 2020, 04:04:02 PM

Title: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 25, 2020, 04:04:02 PM

Just got a message from Doug Noble, and there has been an explosion involving a 4500psi super valve fitted texan.
The gun had exploded and shooter is in hospital.
This is all I know.
(https://img.aijaa.com/m/00398/14890602.jpg) (https://aijaa.com/L5D8f0)

Marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Monkeydad1969 on September 25, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
Was it the AAO valve?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mrbulk on September 25, 2020, 04:45:27 PM
Dang, I surely feel badly for the guy although hoping this does not make the mainstream headlines, would not be good news for airgunning public perceptions
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on September 25, 2020, 05:27:17 PM
WOW !!!!..... this needs to be shared far and wide,

No can hide stuff like this.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chris USA on September 25, 2020, 05:30:58 PM
Facts and details aside,... prayers for the injured.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: bear air on September 25, 2020, 05:32:47 PM
Prayers sent. That is horrible. Good job getting the word out.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Rob M on September 25, 2020, 05:48:45 PM
prayers for the victim and his family. , this is very sad ..Last yr , it was some super plenum for the airforce line that blew up.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Ironman482 on September 25, 2020, 06:31:47 PM
High pressure air is not something to mess around with , my avenger is rated for 4350 but I  only fill to 3900 just to be safe , I'm surprised we don't have more of these kind of explosions , first thought was some kind of petroleum based oil was used, but hopefully a more detailed report will surface so we all can learn from this tragedy.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mrbulk on September 25, 2020, 06:34:07 PM
So it has been two AF mods so far that do this?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chad@ Lethal Air on September 25, 2020, 06:36:41 PM
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: bear air on September 25, 2020, 07:57:25 PM
Very true Chad. That was a horrible mistake made by the shop. Hopefully they do EVERYTHING they can to help the injured person.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chris USA on September 25, 2020, 08:12:16 PM
Amen! to facts. The main stream media could learn a thing or two. In the end,.. a good reminder to remember what we are dealing with,.. should we decide to play beyond the "normal" boundaries of air gunning.

Chris
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: aimsmall on September 25, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
High pressure air is not something to mess around with , my avenger is rated for 4350 but I  only fill to 3900 just to be safe , I'm surprised we don't have more of these kind of explosions , first thought was some kind of petroleum based oil was used, but hopefully a more detailed report will surface so we all can learn from this tragedy.
I get what you're saying but lets touch reality, 3900 psi is going kill you just as much as 4300.
125 psi can kill you...
that welding shop better get a dam good lawyer because that is straight up bodily harm negligence..
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: fv22 on September 25, 2020, 10:40:15 PM
High pressure air is not something to mess around with , my avenger is rated for 4350 but I  only fill to 3900 just to be safe , I'm surprised we don't have more of these kind of explosions , first thought was some kind of petroleum based oil was used, but hopefully a more detailed report will surface so we all can learn from this tragedy.

Not sure but do you think you could tell the difference with metal particles going through your body from 3900 psi explosion compared to 4350?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Lt. Dan on September 25, 2020, 11:37:52 PM
Prayers for all involved.  Horrible accident.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on September 26, 2020, 01:40:52 AM
I am very sorry to hear that the shooter is injured, and hope he has a speedy recovery.... The statement that an Oxygen bottle was supplied instead of Helium confuses me, because I think commercial welding Oxygen is supplied at 2200 psi, not 4500.... Since we fill by pressure, and supposedly the gun exploded on firing (not on filling), it makes this even stranger....

I would love to see a colour photo of the tank supplied by the welding shop.... Tanks are colour coded, and have different valve threads, for a reason.... It should in theory be impossible for a gas supplier to fill a Helium tank with Oxygen, as they have different valve threads....

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 26, 2020, 01:55:43 AM
There is no way and no how to mount a nitrogen / helium bottle regulator / fill adapter on an oxygen tank thread.
If that is the case here, the user is in the blame too for  rigging up a fill line to oxygen tank thread.
Wrong tank filled with oxygen should not be possible unless the company filling it has unqualified and possibly criminally incompetent personnel.
No one is blaming Lethal air, I only stated the facts that I knew.

If it's was oxygen then its fine by me and user or filler stupidity but if the gas was inert then its a whole different matter.

Marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 26, 2020, 06:55:43 AM
It is not possible to mix bottles unintentionally. Thread is totally of different size. It is also impossible in gas company cause they cannot fix the wrong bottle to oxygen filling line.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 26, 2020, 08:25:56 AM
Hopefully we will get the end of this story and all the facts come to the surface.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mackeral5 on September 26, 2020, 11:00:36 AM
This is a horrible situation for everyone involved.  Hopefully we will soon have the facts and can learn from it. 

Not that I am insinuating this is lube related, but I will say that simply reading this made me check how my PCP lubes are clearly identified compared to lubes used for other hobbies... ..
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on September 26, 2020, 12:42:52 PM
Quote
It is not possible to mix bottles unintentionally. Thread is totally of different size. It is also impossible in gas company cause they cannot fix the wrong bottle to oxygen filling line

I would agree with this statement, and it should be kept foremost in the thoughts of everyone following, and certainly those involved with and investigating, what happened....

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on September 26, 2020, 12:53:39 PM
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened


So, reading comments from experts this isn't possible,

.......so why the dissinformation ?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: wolverine on September 26, 2020, 01:36:24 PM
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened


i didn't read anything in the op that laid the blame on anything or anyone. 
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 26, 2020, 01:46:50 PM
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened


i didn't read anything in the op that laid the blame on anything or anyone.
Agreed.... matter of fact, the only blame I've read here was placed directly on the weld shop which has been reported to be impossible. That's why I say.... I hope that we get ALL the FACTS.
Either way... thoughts and prayers go out to the injured and his family.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: bear air on September 26, 2020, 02:12:34 PM
It would definitely be a very valuable lesson for anyone into HPA guns to know. I'm sure the facts will be presented once everything is sorted out. Once again prayers to the shooter and their loved ones.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: ZackUSAF82 on September 26, 2020, 02:22:55 PM
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened


i didn't read anything in the op that laid the blame on anything or anyone.
Agreed.... matter of fact, the only blame I've read here was placed directly on the weld shop which has been reported to be impossible. That's why I say.... I hope that we get ALL the FACTS.
Either way... thoughts and prayers go out to the injured and his family.

100% agree too.  I also find it disturbing that the vendor posted that and didn't even once mention will wishes for the injured.  They won't be getting my business, that's for darn sure.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 27, 2020, 07:47:20 AM
It is not possible to mix bottles unintentionally. Thread is totally of different size. It is also impossible in gas company cause they cannot fix the wrong bottle to oxygen filling line.

Maybe it wasn't a "Welding" shop, maybe it was a "Dive" shop? Maybe he wasn't trying to get Helium, maybe just compressed air? Guessing you've never heard of Nitrox? or any of the other gas "Mixes" for diving? Nitrox has double the O2 content as Air.

No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened


So, reading comments from experts this isn't possible,

.......so why the dissinformation ?

Maybe it's that some of the "Experts" are actually providing some of the dis-information since it appears some might not know as much as they think
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 27, 2020, 08:12:12 AM
I am no expert but I know for a fact that you cant connect flammable gas reg to inert gas line or oxygen to air or nitrogen line. Not without jerry rigging the connection one way or the other so not possible by accident.
How do I know this, well I have manufactured the fitting for Linden group / AGA some years back.

We also made hydrogen containers for shipping hydrogen. And I have pretty good idea what fits where.

So do enlighten us what do you thing is the dis-information you accuse some of us providing?

Marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 27, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
I am no expert but I know for a fact that you cant connect flammable gas reg to inert gas line or oxygen to air or nitrogen line. Not without jerry rigging the connection one way or the other so not possible by accident.
How do I know this, well I have manufactured the fitting for Linden group / AGA some years back.

We also made hydrogen containers for shipping hydrogen. And I have pretty good idea what fits where.

So do enlighten us what do you thing is the dis-information you accuse some of us providing?

Marko

So are you an "Expert" or not? In first sentence you say NO, but then you want me to enlighten us as to the dis-information some of "us" are providing, indicating you are including yourself among the experts. Remember that an OB/GYN is generally considered an "Expert" but I would not necessarily want one doing open heart surgery on me.

Please answer this - How do dive shops get Trimix (which contains Helium) or Nitrox (with contains a higher content of O@) into a Din 300 equipped tank? Once you answer this you will realize that it IS possible to put Helium or Oxygen into different or similar tanks.

How about we just wait till all of the "facts" come out before we offer our own "expert" opinions as to what might have happened. Wouldn't that be best for those "involved"?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 27, 2020, 08:38:41 AM
Maybe it wasn't a "Welding" shop, maybe it was a "Dive" shop? Maybe he wasn't trying to get Helium, maybe just compressed air? Guessing you've never heard of Nitrox? or any of the other gas "Mixes" for diving? Nitrox has double the O2 content as Air.
Quess what? I used to be a diver on yonger age. Nitrox can contain almost any amount of oxygen up to somtehing like 60%. Maybe it was Heliox? Or maybe poor guy was visiting NASA instead of dive shop and got 600 bars pure oxygen? Maybe.

Anyway it is not that plausible because if you dive with gas mix you don't know exactly, it could be even more fatal than gun explosion. No dive shop should ever fill the tank that is not oxygen cleaned with enriched mix.

If you have some additional information about this particular case, please do inform us.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 27, 2020, 08:57:56 AM
Maybe it wasn't a "Welding" shop, maybe it was a "Dive" shop? Maybe he wasn't trying to get Helium, maybe just compressed air? Guessing you've never heard of Nitrox? or any of the other gas "Mixes" for diving? Nitrox has double the O2 content as Air.
Quess what? I used to be a diver on yonger age. Nitrox can contain almost any amount of oxygen up to somtehing like 60%. Maybe it was Heliox? Or maybe poor guy was visiting NASA instead of dive shop and got 600 bars pure oxygen? Maybe.

Anyway it is not that plausible because if you dive with gas mix you don't know exactly, it could be even more fatal than gun explosion. No dive shop should ever fill the tank that is not oxygen cleaned with enriched mix.

If you have some additional information about this particular case, please do inform us.

Should and could are different things. If I take my Nitrox labeled tank and have it filled at a shop that has no mixes will they fill it with compressed air? Sure they will. Then I take it back to the other shop with mixes, will they fill it with Nitrox? Sure they will, as long as I tell them it's still clean, right?

BTW-I have no additional info, just trying to "correct" some of the dis-information like stated. Apparently some don't like being told they are wrong, so I'll stop
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 27, 2020, 09:11:35 AM
Cant read or don't understand what was written?
I was talking about accidentally filling a wrong bottle with oxygen, and tank threads. Sure you can get different gas mixes in to any bottle but not by accident. It is on purpose from someones demand, not by accident.

But as you said some of us and as us I mean this forum members, not some as you call experts.

Starting to feel it was a bad idea to inform anyone of anything, starting to feel all the real experts have left this forum for a reason.

Marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 27, 2020, 09:15:30 AM
Ok, let's all back it down a notch or two. Virtually everything in the previous postings are based on the word of the poster.
Sadly, even the original report is even based on a social media posting. I don't find any of if worth one GTA member disrespecting another.
We've experienced this here before and lost some great members over it.
How about we just wait and see if we get some real provable facts?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: squirrel_hunter on September 27, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
Cant read or don't understand what was written?
I was talking about accidentally filling a wrong bottle with oxygen, and tank threads. Sure you can get different gas mixes in to any bottle but not by accident. It is on purpose from someones demand, not by accident.

But as you said some of us and as us I mean this forum members, not some as you call experts.

Starting to feel it was a bad idea to inform anyone of anything, starting to feel all the real experts have left this forum for a reason.

Marko
good call marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Lt. Dan on September 27, 2020, 09:20:56 AM
I would like to know how this happened also but I more concerned about the shooter. Has anyone heard an update on his condition?

Remember,  he's one of us. By us, I'm referring to being an airgun enthusiast.
I'm praying for him and his family.

Dan
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 27, 2020, 09:39:45 AM
About social media reliability, i quess this is one of them...
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 27, 2020, 10:00:16 AM
Timo.... I guess it is what we, the members, make it.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 27, 2020, 10:38:39 AM
Should and could are different things. If I take my Nitrox labeled tank and have it filled at a shop that has no mixes will they fill it with compressed air? Sure they will. Then I take it back to the other shop with mixes, will they fill it with Nitrox? Sure they will, as long as I tell them it's still clean, right?

Is this only imaginary option? I am little bit worried now, are you relly doing this? Cause by doing this you risk first fillers life before your own.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chickenthief on September 27, 2020, 11:30:38 AM
Deleted
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: cootertwo on September 27, 2020, 11:33:11 AM
Waiting for facts, and prayers sent to this unknown victim. :-X
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: kkarmical on September 27, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
I would like to know how this happened also but I more concerned about the shooter. Has anyone heard an update on his condition?

Remember,  he's one of us. By us, I'm referring to being an airgun enthusiast.
I'm praying for him and his family.

Dan

+1
Just really hope this person is doing all right, well all things considered.
Most important thing right now, imo..
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Doug Wall on September 27, 2020, 12:13:04 PM
Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on September 27, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
We can guess all we want.... The vendor said,

Quote
The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.

Unintentional filling with, or connecting to a tank containing, the wrong gas is impossible, because CGA fittings are designed to prevent that.... I simply stated that those speculating about, reporting or investigating this incident, should keep that fact foremost in their minds.... Note that there was no mention of a "dive shop", or the shooter's bottle being filled with the wrong gas.... The reference (posted to deflect responsibility from the vendor) was to "picking up a bottle from a welding shop"....

I feel sorry for the person injured, and hope that we will eventually hear the CORRECT details of what happened.... but I have my doubts....

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 27, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
All other things aside.....
Could someone in the know please report the current status of the injured person?
Or point us to somewhere we can check for ourselves?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on September 27, 2020, 01:33:14 PM
Why is it taking so long for the facts to leak out ? .....why no updates ?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Blowpipe Sam on September 27, 2020, 01:39:33 PM
I'm not finding any reports of this on the internet.   First and foremost I have tied a prayer to the wheel for the injured party.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 27, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
Why is it taking so long for the facts to leak out ? .....why no updates ?

Maybe direct this to Doug Noble or MJP, they were involved in the original posting. Seems Doug Noble has access to the FaceBook group as his name is in the original posting.

Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.

But the optional 90ci Ar Venturi CF tank will change it to 4500psi
https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html (https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 27, 2020, 03:59:42 PM
Well, it is interesting that this happened in your corner of the globe and I am the only one to hear the news?
 
For what I have heard the poor guy lost an eye and got half of his face blown off along with broken bones in his right arm.
But that is all second hand knowledge and I'm not part of the social media that it was first reported in.

Should make in to some dot  report if its indeed pressure or gas related accident. At least that what happens here if something like that happens.
No matter how it happened the dangers are real when using high pressures, and all who use imported / asian made parts should once and awhile stop to consider how its made.

Not referring to any part or vendor but as the whole hobby scene of parts and equipment.
Stay safe and have fun.

Marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mrbulk on September 28, 2020, 03:01:44 AM
Ok, let's all back it down a notch or two. Virtually everything in the previous postings are based on the word of the poster.
Sadly, even the original report is even based on a social media posting. I don't find any of if worth one GTA member disrespecting another.
We've experienced this here before and lost some great members over it.
How about we just wait and see if we get some real provable facts?

Well said, Sir Bill. Cooler heads can only prevail if there indeed Are cooler heads among us. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mikeyb on September 28, 2020, 04:43:04 AM

Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.

But the optional 90ci Ar Venturi CF tank will change it to 4500psi
https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html (https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html)


The specs on the linked Texan are still 3000psi (200 BAR) max. The CF fill bottle is rated for 4500psi (300 BAR). The newer Texans with the attached CF bottles are rated for max 3625psi (250 BAR). Filling either rifle up to the full pressure of a 4500psi CF fill tank would be unwise.

I've exploded 1 and 2 liter SODA bottles with expanding liquid nitrogen (stupid kid stuff decades ago). The resulting explosions (guessing only ~250 psi) were much larger than expected. Hearing damage and easily loss of fingers if anyone was close or holding it when it popped. I can't imagine how bad a 4000+ psi aluminum bottle explosion would be.

Hopefully we can all learn something about high pressure air safety when the real facts surface.

Best wishes to the injured party.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 28, 2020, 07:55:42 AM

Has anyone noticed that he filled the gun to 4500 psi? The Texan is rated for 3000 psi fill. A new valve wouldn't change that.

But the optional 90ci Ar Venturi CF tank will change it to 4500psi
https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html (https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-air-rifle-air-tank-combo.html)


The specs on the linked Texan are still 3000psi (200 BAR) max. The CF fill bottle is rated for 4500psi (300 BAR). The newer Texans with the attached CF bottles are rated for max 3625psi (250 BAR). Filling either rifle up to the full pressure of a 4500psi CF fill tank would be unwise.

I've exploded 1 and 2 liter SODA bottles with expanding liquid nitrogen (stupid kid stuff decades ago). The resulting explosions (guessing only ~250 psi) were much larger than expected. Hearing damage and easily loss of fingers if anyone was close or holding it when it popped. I can't imagine how bad a 4000+ psi aluminum bottle explosion would be.

Hopefully we can all learn something about high pressure air safety when the real facts surface.

Best wishes to the injured party.

That would be pretty silly to get a gun with a 4500psi tank that you could only fill to 3000psi don't ya think? By putting the 4500 psi CF tank on the gun you INCREASE the fill pressure to 4500psi. (It has a regulator with burst disk on it)

edit to add - The gun itself does not hold any pressure at all. It is in the tank.

This is the valve he apparently has on his gun. Not the rating
http://www.africanairordnance.com/424820687/product/3535440/moav-2021-texan-ss-457-super-valve-4500psi-bottle?catid=625616 (http://www.africanairordnance.com/424820687/product/3535440/moav-2021-texan-ss-457-super-valve-4500psi-bottle?catid=625616)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 28, 2020, 08:44:17 AM
I wasn't here at the time, but it appears that the same name as in the Original Post here "reported" an AAO valve explosion 3 years ago.......and that report was never substantiated. The same google search tells me that AAO and this reporter from 3 years ago are kinda like "competitors" for AF guns mods.

Side note: I don't know either, nor have I done any business with either.

Personally I think I would wait till more evidence appears that this incident actually happened before commenting negatively about the product in question.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123517.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123517.0)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Licespray on September 28, 2020, 10:00:44 AM
I tank holding 4500PSI won’t fill something to 4500psi unless you let it.

Anyways - prayers to the victim, may he recover quickly and be able to kill the speculations.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 28, 2020, 11:22:48 AM
and it appears, just as happened 3 years ago, the original FB post is not there. Odd how never any names, or places or any kind of confirm able info gets posted.
https://www.facebook.com/Lethal-Air-airgun-hunters-121573061908882 (https://www.facebook.com/Lethal-Air-airgun-hunters-121573061908882)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 28, 2020, 11:35:47 AM
Does this seem to you nothing have happened? Whatever the reason is, it must be cleared out.

No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 28, 2020, 11:38:55 AM
Ok, so you are accusing me as a liar is that it?
Lets rewind some of the details from the past, I was one of the people that confirmed some of the AAO original valve dimensions and calculations and deemed it unsafe as it was.

Doug did not post this post, he only gave me the information. And I acted as I did feel like acting from that information what I knew.

So what is your motive on attacking Doug Noble from something he did not do?

Associate for AAO or lethal air?

Marko
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on September 28, 2020, 12:01:21 PM
Ok, so you are accusing me as a liar is that it?
Lets rewind some of the details from the past, I was one of the people that confirmed some of the AAO original valve dimensions and calculations and deemed it unsafe as it was.

Doug did not post this post, he only gave me the information. And I acted as I did feel like acting from that information what I knew.

So what is your motive on attacking Doug Noble from something he did not do?

Associate for AAO or lethal air?

Marko

Maybe it's your understanding of the English language, but if not please show where Doug Noble has been attacked. Looks to me that this post, along with the post from 3 years ago was done as an "attack" on AAO. Like I said, never had any dealing with either, just on the outside looking in and letting you know what it "looks like" from out here. I have no reason to "attack" either. Think about what outsiders are seeing. These are the only two posts about "incidents" with the AAO valve I've been able to find, "Doug Noble" is "connected" to each of these posts, and neither has been substantiated at this point. What are we supposed to think?

And as for accusing you of lying, it just looks to me like you are posting "hearsay". Maybe since Doug originally sent this to you, and you posted it, you can go back to Doug for updates?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: bear air on September 28, 2020, 12:48:40 PM
Losing what's important with this bickering and finger pointing. What's important is:1 If the victim is ok 2. What the actual cause was so it can be prevented from happening in the future.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on September 28, 2020, 01:06:48 PM
Well,

Lethal Air confirmed that something indeed happened, and tried to put a spin on it, that btw isn't holding water.......the post never said "nothing happened"
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on September 28, 2020, 01:07:55 PM
I also was (one of 4 people) involved in looking at the AAO valve design from 3 years ago, in a review requested by the GTA staff, who wanted to make sure that products promoted here on the GTA were not dangerous.... We all deemed the design questionable, and recommended changes in dimensions and materials (though we did not offer a "design" as such, not our job).... I have no idea if those were implemented, but the manufacturer seemed to offer genuine concern that his valve be safe, although we were never privy to any changes in dimensions or materials that took place, nor what, if any, testing was done to prove the safety of the new, improved valve....

Fast forward to about a year ago when the plenum (designed for an Air Force platform) failed, and the only analysis possible was from the photos of the failed part, as the (non-AAO) manufacturer of that plenum was less than forthcoming, and would supply no dimensions.... IMO, they seemed to have a poor understanding of the safety margins that should be built into parts intended to hold air pressure, and I have never seen any information about the updated parts.... either for the design, materials, or testing....

This most recent failure has, regrettably, resulted in severe injuries to the shooter, and I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.... I have no idea what parts failed, or why, but the explanation offered in this thread by the vendor to deflect criticism of their products is confusing.... It is in conflict with known facts about how welding tanks are filled by the industry in a standardized way, and how those tank valves are specifically designed to prevent unintended use of the wrong gas.... Oxygen and Helium tanks simply cannot be interchanged, the CGA threads on the output side of the valve are completely different....

Every time we have a failure of a PCP component, the event is shrouded in secrecy and confusion.... I can understand the potential liability involved for the manufacturers, but when given genuine offers to help analyze what happened and why, they repeatedly hide behind claims of "proprietary information" the disclosure of which would place them at a "competitive disadvantage".... There is virtually never any real data, dimensions, photos or testing information supplied to those trying to help, so I have given up on trying.... To put it simply, I am not the "PCP Police"....

My wish for the PCP industry is that those modifying or manufacturing parts adhere to industry "best practices", including destructive testing of samples of their production items to insure items sold to the public are safe, and have the appropriate safety margins (minimum of 3.5 times the MSWP to failure for the ASME standards).... You can bet the "big boys" do that, and it is about time the "little guys" started taking this more seriously.... This is one of the primary reasons I refuse to make or sell parts to anyone else.... In case you didn't do the math, that means that items designed for use at 4500 psi should not fail below 16,000 psi.... This means the entire system that part is intended to be used in; eg. if you are building a part for an Air Force airgun, all the parts subjected to pressure, including those when the gun is fired (barrel, breech, lockup mechanism, etc.) should be capable of withstanding 16,000 psi.... To do less, IMO, leaves the manufacturer open to liability.... but then I am neither an Engineer or Lawyer....  ::)

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 28, 2020, 01:36:34 PM
I agree with Bob on this. There is no competition between Marko or me with AAO, how could there be? We are not making any valves for others and certainly not selling them. What comes to Doug, he is also warning you about dangerous stuff but unfortunately for nothing.

I think someone must have mentioned super valve? Could you please dismount it and measure thinnest point of wall? Unpressurize the gun firt, of course.

Please also notice all possible sharp edges and places of O-rings. Are threads pressurized or not?

I have got some dimensions already but best I don't tell anything as it is only second hand information. Anyway it makes me worried. So please someone measure it.

It is not just that simple we take the wall thickness and make some calculation if any. AF construction makes bottle as stock and it takes all the recoil.  It should also be able to stand all the forces that can come from accidental shocks, like dropping or falling. It is not enough just to barely stand the pressure.

By this I am not pointing on AAO but considering what I have found out, there might be safety concern.

Take it seriously, keep safe. There is nothing more worthless than die or injure seriously in hobby that should be fun.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 28, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
Any further personal attacks in this thread will cause it to be locked and reviewed. Any attempts to intentionally get it locked may be met with suspensions or bans.
It's a sad day when we have a report of a fellow airgunner being seriously injured and someone in the know can't, or won't share any information on his/her status. Instead we get this mud slinging.

At this point, the only reason it has yet to be locked is the hopes that someone may give some facts....
1) How is the individual.
2) What happened? (actual facts)
3) Is this even a true story or something made up with motives in mind?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: MJP on September 28, 2020, 02:18:30 PM
After question openly my motives or agenda or honesty I will refrain to post any more on this thread.
Any further information or conclusions to the mater will be given to the gta staff and they can consider if it is trustworthy to post it further.

Marko

Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on September 28, 2020, 02:20:03 PM
3) A conspiracy theory?.... Seriously?....  ::)  :o  >:(

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 28, 2020, 02:32:07 PM
3) A conspiracy theory?.... Seriously?....  ::)  :o  >:(

Bob
I certainly hope not.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: TPL on September 28, 2020, 02:32:51 PM
I'm out too.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chad@ Lethal Air on September 30, 2020, 11:59:02 AM
UPDATE ON SUPPOSED INCIDENT

Hi guys my original post of information about the “explosion” came directly from the person who made the original post in my airgun group on Facebook since that time I have reached out in private messaging to the person who made the post who states he is good friends with the person that the “incident “ happened to . At first he told me of physical damages that had occurred , loss of an ear and an eye ,severe concussion and 4 fractures in one arm. I expressed concern for the “person” and get well wishes ... sorry I didn’t express my concern in my first post on this thread to you guys, obviously nobody wants to see anybody get hurt in our industry for any reason......... now onto the development of this story as it has progressed, the friend of the person who had the “accident with oxygen “ are both within a 3 hour drive from me here in Virginia. I did google searches for news  reports , police reports  etc nothing as of yet . Original poster stated he went over to the house with the guys mother to check the bottles at his home from the welding shop where they found this mistaken bottle of oxygen I asked for pictures of gun and bottle of oxygen he stated the cops confiscated the gun and he did not think to take pics of the oxygen tank. I have since then requested the name of the welding shop , name of the hospital the injured fella is in and contact info of the mother , I also told him that Jeremy at AAO and myself would like to start a go fund me to help him with medical expenses. Now I  cannot get any more information from the original poster other than excuses, he just ignores my questions about hospital and welding shop names and now tells me he does not need a go fund me started because he already knows that his insurance is covering 100% of the medical expenses because he owns 3 companies and also works for the government and is well off and does not need our help for his medical bills ...... possible fake news ? Conspiracy theory ? Why I can’t get any hard proof evidence of this actually happening is beyond me , no hospital name no welding shop name , the injured fella name was supposedly James Maddox that name or anything similar has not purchased any upgrade kits from neither jeremy or I as we have checked all of our orders. According to the original poster he bought the gun used from someone “out west” and he is unable to supply that name either. Why he will not provide any basic info is beyond me , the original poster has also made wild claims of modified and or custom valves he has made for other guns like 650fps out of his modded Umarex airsaber snd almost 1,500 FPS out of his custom Umarex gauntlet but never shows any data from a chrony or video evidence of any of that either and guys in my Facebook group have asked repeatedly for evidence of these performance claims. He always has an excuse why he doesn’t. Why he would make this incident up is beyond me your guess is as good as mine but until I get some basic answers or names of welding shop/ hospital etc I will be Leary of any more information he tells me. Like I said if it’s true I wish nothing but the best for the victim and his family and Jeremy and I are willing to do something to help this fella out but obviously we can’t do that without getting any information other than the “accident” occurring
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mr007s on September 30, 2020, 12:08:37 PM
Thank  you Chad.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chad@ Lethal Air on September 30, 2020, 12:09:17 PM
No Texan valve from us or Jeremy at AAO has  BLOWN UP ! The person Picked up a bottle that was supposed to be full of helium from his local welding shop and they mistakenly gave him a bottle of oxygen instead.  Some people need to wait to hear the facts before they start blaming products or people in the industry for what has happened


i didn't read anything in the op that laid the blame on anything or anyone.
Agreed.... matter of fact, the only blame I've read here was placed directly on the weld shop which has been reported to be impossible. That's why I say.... I hope that we get ALL the FACTS.
Either way... thoughts and prayers go out to the injured and his family.

100% agree too.  I also find it disturbing that the vendor posted that and didn't even once mention will wishes for the injured.  They won't be getting my business, that's for darn sure.

Sorry bud I didn’t express my concern to you guys in my original post as I had already expressed my condolences to the victims friend that made the original post on my Facebook group and also was trying to reach out to the victims mother / family to help by trying to start a go fund me for him just an fyi since you stated you’d never purchase anything from us since we are heartless
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on September 30, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Regardless of the turnout, I think we should all look at this as a warning. High pressure, in any form, is something to be taken very seriously.
Crazy as it may be to say... I hope this whole thing is BS. And if not, I think I can speak for all of us here at the GTA in saying.. Thoughts and prayers are with the victim and his family.
And if it is BS... shame on the instigators..... karma is a SOB.

Look, another thread was recently started about ways to get more kids involved in the GTA and airgunning.
We ALL need to be responsible and considerate in our postings. Vulnerable eyes may be are watching.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Long_Gun_Dallas on September 30, 2020, 12:50:23 PM
Sounds like a hibitual liar.  Some people just need the spotlight.  🤷‍♂️  I can't claim to understand.

But if the claims were true, it would be prudent to let the community know.

But by all counts, it seem, increasingly so, to be un-true. 
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mr007s on September 30, 2020, 01:02:14 PM
There has been a term lately that we have probably heard over and over.
 That term is "rush to judgement"
I see that has happened in this thread also
 Please, just stop it.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mackeral5 on September 30, 2020, 01:16:06 PM
Or, the victim has lawyered up, a logical next step in either of the scenarios mentioned here......
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chris USA on September 30, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on September 30, 2020, 07:19:31 PM
Thanks for the update, Chad.... keep us informed, and please share any photos of damage to the gun, and/or the filling equipment used.... if and when you get them....

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: oldpro on October 02, 2020, 06:07:14 AM
Been following this closely and had that feeling something odd was afoot. Thanks Chad
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Tiroflojo on October 04, 2020, 04:48:18 AM
Greetings.
   There have already been two attempts in GTA to harm this man who makes custom valves for Texan with "bulo". The bulo is very damaging to reputation, since it takes effect from the moment it starts to roll, and after it is discovered lie the damage has already been done.
    It is necessary to ask who benefits and why this "bulo". By the way: in my language the intentional creation and propagation is called "bulo" (I don't know the equivalent in English).
    From my point of view: an explosion from a Texan pistol can be nothing more than an explosion of its air reservoir, a defect in its valve would cause failure of opening or power of the pistol or rupture and escape of air in the valve, but not an air reservoir explosion.
    An air cylinder explosion can be caused by an improper gas mixture inside the cylinder, a petroleum-derived oil mixture mixed with the air under high pressure, a pressure surge in the cylinder, an exposure of the cylinder to high and abnormal temperatures (a vehicle in the sun) ... but very hardly to a failure of its valve.
    But of course it's my "non-expert" opinion.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on October 04, 2020, 09:44:13 AM
First of all....
What a member or members post on the GTA forum is NOT a representation of the GTA as a unit.
Secondly... if I'm not mistaken...
What little information that was shared here suggested that the damage to the gun was primarily in the breech area of the gun.
Many of us have asked for definitive evidence concerning this incident. Without official documents and/or pictures, all comments and opinions are based on pure speculation.
I would suggest that we all back off until either/or are provided.
Once again, thoughts and prayers go out to the victim and family members if they exist.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: anti-squirrel on October 05, 2020, 09:20:08 AM
Speaking as a Virginian with ties to some local news sources... No sign of this accident happening in the actual news.  I don't consider Facebook to be news.  I also question a claim about any welding shop mixing up Oxygen and Helium.  A weld shop is going to take HP welding gases very seriously, and they simply aren't gonna mix 2 different bottles with 2 different sets of fittings with totally different handling protocols. 


I worked in a hydraulic and HPA shop and have partaken of DT (destructive testing ) on HP bottles.  The bunker at Mare Island was where I saw this go down. A couple-feet thick of prestressed pre-tensions super-reinforced concrete and the bottles blowing up would still shake the place.  double-hearing protection require.  You do NOT wanna be on the receiving end of HPA shrapnel.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Steveoh on October 05, 2020, 12:52:29 PM
I have scoured the Facebook posts on all of Lethal Air’s pages and on the Facebook account that reported the “incident “.  Those pages have apparently been sanitized.

CYA.

It happened or it didn’t happen. And so it goes.

Still, I look at my big tanks with one eye closed and somewhat of a bit of paranoia.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mrbulk on October 05, 2020, 01:18:44 PM

...I look at my big tanks with one eye closed and somewhat of a bit of paranoia.


Actually your tank comment (plus this *alleged* incident) has made me feel better about investing in a compressor rather than another fill tank. Not that I've not had any in the past (three at once in a past airgun life, all cascaded together in the trunk of my car when we visited various chicken and pig farms) but in my slow retired lifestyle now, a ruptured burst disc does indeed seem safer.  8)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Dan H on October 10, 2020, 07:01:46 PM
Its fine to be conscious of high pressure air dangers , but this thing reads like a FAKE CNN NEWS REPORT ! ... ::)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Gertrude on October 10, 2020, 11:55:58 PM
Its fine to be conscious of high pressure air dangers , but this thing reads like a FAKE CNN NEWS REPORT ! ... ::)

I fully understand (and personally agree) with this sentiment,
BUT,
Let's be very conscious (and CAREFUL) that this thread line avoids further political implications.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on October 11, 2020, 01:01:44 AM
I personally think that the idea this tragedy is a hoax is far fetched.... For a moment, just put yourself in the position of the guy who is injured.... How do you think you would feel reading that some here think this is "fake news"?....  :o

I agree that details are lacking, but IMO too many on this Forum subscribe to the latest "conspiracy theory" floating around, whatever that may be.... Call me naive if you like, but I was always taught to treat others the way I would like to be treated....  ::)

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Gertrude on October 11, 2020, 01:05:58 AM
I personally think that the idea this tragedy is a hoax is far fetched.... For a moment, just put yourself in the position of the guy who is injured.... How do you think you would feel reading that some here think this is "fake news"?....  :o

I agree that details are lacking, but IMO too many on this Forum subscribe to the latest "conspiracy theory" floating around, whatever that may be.... Call me naive if you like, but I was always taught to treat others the way I would like to be treated....  ::)

Bob
100% agreed
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Dan H on October 11, 2020, 04:53:09 AM
UPDATE ON SUPPOSED INCIDENT

Hi guys my original post of information about the “explosion” came directly from the person who made the original post in my airgun group on Facebook since that time I have reached out in private messaging to the person who made the post who states he is good friends with the person that the “incident “ happened to . At first he told me of physical damages that had occurred , loss of an ear and an eye ,severe concussion and 4 fractures in one arm. I expressed concern for the “person” and get well wishes ... sorry I didn’t express my concern in my first post on this thread to you guys, obviously nobody wants to see anybody get hurt in our industry for any reason......... now onto the development of this story as it has progressed, the friend of the person who had the “accident with oxygen “ are both within a 3 hour drive from me here in Virginia. I did google searches for news  reports , police reports  etc nothing as of yet . Original poster stated he went over to the house with the guys mother to check the bottles at his home from the welding shop where they found this mistaken bottle of oxygen I asked for pictures of gun and bottle of oxygen he stated the cops confiscated the gun and he did not think to take pics of the oxygen tank. I have since then requested the name of the welding shop , name of the hospital the injured fella is in and contact info of the mother , I also told him that Jeremy at AAO and myself would like to start a go fund me to help him with medical expenses. Now I  cannot get any more information from the original poster other than excuses, he just ignores my questions about hospital and welding shop names and now tells me he does not need a go fund me started because he already knows that his insurance is covering 100% of the medical expenses because he owns 3 companies and also works for the government and is well off and does not need our help for his medical bills ...... possible fake news ? Conspiracy theory ? Why I can’t get any hard proof evidence of this actually happening is beyond me , no hospital name no welding shop name , the injured fella name was supposedly James Maddox that name or anything similar has not purchased any upgrade kits from neither jeremy or I as we have checked all of our orders. According to the original poster he bought the gun used from someone “out west” and he is unable to supply that name either. Why he will not provide any basic info is beyond me , the original poster has also made wild claims of modified and or custom valves he has made for other guns like 650fps out of his modded Umarex airsaber snd almost 1,500 FPS out of his custom Umarex gauntlet but never shows any data from a chrony or video evidence of any of that either and guys in my Facebook group have asked repeatedly for evidence of these performance claims. He always has an excuse why he doesn’t. Why he would make this incident up is beyond me your guess is as good as mine but until I get some basic answers or names of welding shop/ hospital etc I will be Leary of any more information he tells me. Like I said if it’s true I wish nothing but the best for the victim and his family and Jeremy and I are willing to do something to help this fella out but obviously we can’t do that without getting any information other than the “accident” occurring
  Read this post again .... , when I objectively look at this  I realize no one knows who it was that was supposedly injured ...

 no hospital name ...

NO TIME with actual proof that this event actually happened - other than some guy on face book posted this with ZERO proof or factual provable info on this supposed incident , or who it even was ...  ::)

no welding shop name ...

I did google searches for news  reports , police reports  etc nothing as of yet ....

Peter = anti squirrel's post who lives in that area  ..... 

Speaking as a Virginian with ties to some local news sources... No sign of this accident happening in the actual news.  I don't consider Facebook to be news.  I also question a claim about any welding shop mixing up Oxygen and Helium.  A weld shop is going to take HP welding gases very seriously, and they simply aren't gonna mix 2 different bottles with 2 different sets of fittings with totally different handling protocols.


I worked in a hydraulic and HPA shop and have partaken of DT (destructive testing ) on HP bottles.  The bunker at Mare Island was where I saw this go down. A couple-feet thick of prestressed pre-tensions super-reinforced concrete and the bottles blowing up would still shake the place.  double-hearing protection require.  You do NOT wanna be on the receiving end of HPA shrapnel.

then we have Bob's post ,and as a welder myself of course I know this to be absolutely true on the mix up of bottles claim ...

Bobs post =
Unintentional filling with, or connecting to a tank containing, the wrong gas is impossible, because CGA fittings are designed to prevent that.... I simply stated that those speculating about, reporting or investigating this incident, should keep that fact foremost in their minds.... Note that there was no mention of a "dive shop", or the shooter's bottle being filled with the wrong gas.... The reference (posted to deflect responsibility from the vendor) was to "picking up a bottle from a welding shop"....

I feel sorry for the person injured, and hope that we will eventually hear the CORRECT details of what happened.... but I have my doubts....

Bob


another post buy another GTA trusted member that also makes sense ....Marko =MJP

I am no expert but I know for a fact that you cant connect flammable gas reg to inert gas line or oxygen to air or nitrogen line. Not without jerry rigging the connection one way or the other so not possible by accident.
How do I know this, well I have manufactured the fitting for Linden group / AGA some years back.

We also made hydrogen containers for shipping hydrogen. And I have pretty good idea what fits where.

So do enlighten us what do you thing is the dis-information you accuse some of us providing?

Marko


The Lawyer side of my brain tells me this is a hoax posted by someone with bad intentions on face book ... imagine that ... ::)  ,and that my friends is not hard to believe  ;)



 
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Chickenthief on October 11, 2020, 12:44:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/R3lP5o4.gif)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Tiroflojo on October 12, 2020, 04:35:50 AM
Greetings.
    If in my previous post it was understood that I blamed the GTA forum as a community, or its administrators, for the spread of hoaxes, this is not what
 I wanted to say, and I apologize for that.
    What I mean is that it has been used before and I believe that the GTA forum is now used as a means of "propagating" episodes that have not occurred. This is inevitable because the forum members can use it with full freedom. if the news of the accident is true - it is of great interest to the compressed air community and can serve to prevent a recurrence.
     But I insist that the damage done to the reputation of the person or company affected by this improbable news is done without remedy even if it is later shown to be a hoax. And "those who move the strings" and use the forum as a tool to circulate a lie, they achieve their goal.
      Do not you think that if a person has been seriously injured in an accident with an airgun, the authorities and the lawyer of the affected person would have already contacted the person who can be considered responsible for this damage caused?
     And it seems impossible to me that in all this time it has been impossible to find photos and other news in other media that expand and verify this type of serious accident.
     So I remember -as an example- the case of a serious accident, in which a person was injured by the impact of a valve body of an air rifle, as the rifle was manipulated without removing the pressure from the pressurized air tube. the news many shocking photos of the injured leg: materially pierced from side to side, with a large hole, by the tripped valve. And photos of the subsequent healing of the injured and the object that caused it. These photos and the news of the accident were made by a personal friend of the injured person and propagated by him in different media. Nothing to do with the circumstances and development of this other supposed accident.
     The big difference: one was clearly true, while this one now lacks any real data or images to confirm that it is true.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: RichH on October 12, 2020, 07:17:27 AM
Greetings.
    If in my previous post it was understood that I blamed the GTA forum as a community, or its administrators, for the spread of hoaxes, this is not what
 I wanted to say, and I apologize for that.
    What I mean is that it has been used before and I believe that the GTA forum is now used as a means of "propagating" episodes that have not occurred. This is inevitable because the forum members can use it with full freedom. if the news of the accident is true - it is of great interest to the compressed air community and can serve to prevent a recurrence.
     But I insist that the damage done to the reputation of the person or company affected by this improbable news is done without remedy even if it is later shown to be a hoax. And "those who move the strings" and use the forum as a tool to circulate a lie, they achieve their goal.
      Do not you think that if a person has been seriously injured in an accident with an airgun, the authorities and the lawyer of the affected person would have already contacted the person who can be considered responsible for this damage caused?
     And it seems impossible to me that in all this time it has been impossible to find photos and other news in other media that expand and verify this type of serious accident.
     So I remember -as an example- the case of a serious accident, in which a person was injured by the impact of a valve body of an air rifle, as the rifle was manipulated without removing the pressure from the pressurized air tube. the news many shocking photos of the injured leg: materially pierced from side to side, with a large hole, by the tripped valve. And photos of the subsequent healing of the injured and the object that caused it. These photos and the news of the accident were made by a personal friend of the injured person and propagated by him in different media. Nothing to do with the circumstances and development of this other supposed accident.
     The big difference: one was clearly true, while this one now lacks any real data or images to confirm that it is true.

From what I've seen, if you are a Forum Sponsor - this kind of posting is not allowed, and is removed. If however, you are not a sponsor, you're fair game.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: kkarmical on October 12, 2020, 10:00:43 AM
I personally think that the idea this tragedy is a hoax is far fetched.... For a moment, just put yourself in the position of the guy who is injured.... How do you think you would feel reading that some here think this is "fake news"?....  :o

I agree that details are lacking, but IMO too many on this Forum subscribe to the latest "conspiracy theory" floating around, whatever that may be.... Call me naive if you like, but I was always taught to treat others the way I would like to be treated....  ::)

Bob

+1

If I'd had an accident that caused an explosion resulting in a life changing situation, the very last thing I would be thinking about a little over 2 weeks, would be a bunch of internet yahoos, and to be honest a vendors "reputation".

In time the more details will come to light, and to say that some something is a hoax because an internet search of personal medical records or an ongoing incident investigation, is irresponsible, and in general pretty messed up. 

I  witnessed a guy on the receiving end of CPR, and imo he was dead already.  It happened at a supermarket I normally go to.  I  was so troubled by it, that I wanted to follow up and see if maybe the guy made it.
I searched local emergency logs that I could access, and all local hospitals, and newspapers and couldn't find anything. 

Couple days later, asked one of the stores employees, yes the guy had in fact died, but that was all the information I could obtain, doing a normal citizen search.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: PakProtector on October 25, 2020, 01:59:39 PM
I personally think that the idea this tragedy is a hoax is far fetched.... For a moment, just put yourself in the position of the guy who is injured.... How do you think you would feel reading that some here think this is "fake news"?....  :o

I agree that details are lacking, but IMO too many on this Forum subscribe to the latest "conspiracy theory" floating around, whatever that may be.... Call me naive if you like, but I was always taught to treat others the way I would like to be treated....  ::)

Bob

If this had been me( just to use an example I am comfortable with), I would be appalled by how far it has gone without seeing something I could label proof.

As to the 'fake news' there are plenty of examples out there that, including background info from the horse's mouth that if I see that label, I can be sure it is a straight up fact. Now why in the heck I need to put any qualifiers/adjectives on the term 'fact'...I do indeed know where to lay that blame.
cheers,
Douglas
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: darkcharisma on October 25, 2020, 07:36:53 PM
I am just thinking out loud.

I am puzzled that we still not able to get some real detail about this incident. If it is real, Chad should not contact the "friend" anymore and contact the police department where this incident has occurred. Get some real information from them! since he told us the airgun has been confiscated. Also, If Chad knows it takes 3 hours of driving, Chad should know the general area of destination or the exact address and Chad should pick up the trail from there starting with the police department, then the mom. If Chad can get in touch with the mom, then everything should be cleared. This "friend" has no "freaking" right to refuse Chad's good intentions, it should be the mom to needs to decide that. Everything in "inconclusive" even with Chads reports. Again, I am just puzzled and thinking out loud. no foul intention coming from me...!

 And all the pointing fingers from earlier on. dang idiots, this is exactly why I should quit hanging around idiots, to avoid catching the symptoms.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Eric G. on October 29, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
I have a 1st gen Texan .457.  I have shot it thousands of times at 3000PSI, it's maximum fill.  The top hat valve is supposed to "lock" when filled over 3000 yielding a low power shot.  However after accidentally filling the gun to over (3300) and shooting it the gun shot ver well....in fact a bit harder that at the 3000 fill.  My question is this;  At how much pressure are the original aluminum tanks tested?  Is is safe to shoot it at 3300PSI even though the top hat valve doesn't "lock up"?
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Doug Wall on October 29, 2020, 01:42:41 PM
I have a 1st gen Texan .457.  I have shot it thousands of times at 3000PSI, it's maximum fill.  The top hat valve is supposed to "lock" when filled over 3000 yielding a low power shot.  However after accidentally filling the gun to over (3300) and shooting it the gun shot ver well....in fact a bit harder that at the 3000 fill.  My question is this;  At how much pressure are the original aluminum tanks tested?  Is is safe to shoot it at 3300PSI even though the top hat valve doesn't "lock up"?
No one in their right mind would ever tell you it's OK to exceed the maximum rated fill. If something happened, it would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: T3PRanch on October 29, 2020, 02:57:24 PM
Minimum non destructive test pressures for DOT-3AL-3000 tanks is 5/3 of the working pressure of 3000 psi.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: subscriber on October 29, 2020, 09:48:33 PM
About important internet posts or pages that have subsequently been altered or deleted:  You may be able to view edited or deleted internet pages by means of the "wayback machine":  https://archive.org/web/

Here is how:
Open your browser history and search for terms that are likely to find the URL.  click on that URL.  If it comes up "page not found", or redirected to something generic, that is a clue it is the URL you want.  Ditto, if the page exist, but the content has been edited.

Copy that URL and paste it into the wayback machine's search box and click "browse history".  First click on the earliest date for that URL, because it is likely the most contentious.  If the page has been up for some time and has a number of edits, you will be able to step through them to see the changes over time. 

It is possible that no archive of a given page exist, but if it does, it takes very little trouble to find it.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 29, 2020, 10:15:03 PM
This is what I learned from the situation in one of my Facebook groups.

It was reported that the OP of the Texan that exploded  was at fault. He mistakenly misunderstood the gas mixture recipe for the Texan.

OP used pure oxygen in his compressed air mixture and combined with a pure lube, he got a diesel and this caused his Texan to explode
Do not quote me but i do believe there were pictures of the wrecked Texan.
I will try to find the post this weekend and post a link.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Long_Gun_Dallas on October 30, 2020, 09:33:57 AM
Yep, that'd do it.  I'd like to know how they managed that.  And WHY  :o  assuming there is truth
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: subscriber on October 30, 2020, 10:28:53 AM
If someone is injured when the engine of their vehicle dropped out, then the brand of vehicle would seem less important than the fact that the vehicle had been driven off a multi-story rooftop parking garage...

No reflection anyone here, but the initial FB report was so detailed that one would be inclined to assume all the pertinent detail had been included.  Rather than, man injured after charging PCP air rifle with a mix of gases that mistakenly included pure oxygen.


For instance, in the image below, the brand and model of PCP is almost irrelevant, compared to the pure O2 that caused the explosion:

(https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/201-left-web.jpg)
From: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/02/precharged-pneumatic-pcp-airgun-fears/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/02/precharged-pneumatic-pcp-airgun-fears/)
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 30, 2020, 11:48:30 PM
This is all i can find as the original post was deleted.

But it is an interesting read. Somethings seams odd and off but thats just my opinion.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/120936275305002/permalink/743933289671961/
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: oldpro on October 30, 2020, 11:54:43 PM
I personally think that the idea this tragedy is a hoax is far fetched.... For a moment, just put yourself in the position of the guy who is injured.... How do you think you would feel reading that some here think this is "fake news"?....  :o

I agree that details are lacking, but IMO too many on this Forum subscribe to the latest "conspiracy theory" floating around, whatever that may be.... Call me naive if you like, but I was always taught to treat others the way I would like to be treated....  ::)

Bob

If this had been me( just to use an example I am comfortable with), I would be appalled by how far it has gone without seeing something I could label proof.

As to the 'fake news' there are plenty of examples out there that, including background info from the horse's mouth that if I see that label, I can be sure it is a straight up fact. Now why in the heck I need to put any qualifiers/adjectives on the term 'fact'...I do indeed know where to lay that blame.
cheers,
Douglas
Amen Douglas.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: subscriber on October 31, 2020, 01:07:01 AM
Jeffrey,

Quote
https://m.facebook.com/groups/120936275305002/permalink/743933289671961/

This is a private group.   Can't see it without joining the group.  Not a FB user either.  Can you take a few screen captures and post them please?

Thanks
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: mr007s on October 31, 2020, 09:23:26 AM
Jeffrey,

Quote
https://m.facebook.com/groups/120936275305002/permalink/743933289671961/

This is a private group.   Can't see it without joining the group.  Not a FB user either.  Can you take a few screen captures and post them please?

Thanks

X2
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 10:08:22 AM
Well &^^&, that would require me to go host the screen shots then embed them.

Maybe after breakfast i can do it,  but i was privy to a private conversation and unfortunately i can not share that as more info is still being extracted but my bs detector was going off.
Now if a mod wants the info, feel free to contact me and just shoot me a text 304 940 9619
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: subscriber on October 31, 2020, 10:16:09 AM
Well &^^&, that would require me to go host the screen shots then embed them.


You can save a screenshot and attach right on this forum.  No need for hosting.

See the "Attachments and other options" next to the + sign, below any posting window.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 11:03:55 AM
Here is some of the screen shots
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 11:05:13 AM
Sorry i am new to this
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: subscriber on October 31, 2020, 11:06:19 AM
Thanks Jeffrey
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 11:21:52 AM
Thanks Jeffrey

You are welcome, i am using my phone and sometimes attaching files is tricky as the icons are small and hard to tell what is what in the file format.

From my take on things, i am very confused.

OP of the Texan is supposed to be a former Marine Sniper and a Navy Seal as well as a Government employee of some time, owns 3 businesses and so on and so on but i guess he skipped science class.

Next OP did a full fill to 4500 psi with Pure Oxygen yet oxygen is only bottled   to 2200 psi.

Hypothetically speaking
I can clearly see if it was a mix gas and he was using let's say a cheap chinese compressor that allowed oil to enter his tank. Then i could see the diesel effect happening.  Gun goes off, diesel effect occurred, but the dwell time of the gas released from the tank, forward motion before detonation , it would seem the rupture would occur at least mid point of the barrel with everything moving upwards and forward.
Now had the tank exploded at let's say 4000 psi of pressure then magnitude in the o2 explosion, it would appear on my end that you would no longer have a head left above your shoulders. 
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: rsterne on October 31, 2020, 01:22:35 PM
I have no doubt that the incident occurred.... however my BS meter is off scale as to the details, they don't make sense....

Bob
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Steveoh on October 31, 2020, 02:16:05 PM
I have no doubt that the incident occurred.... however my BS meter is off scale as to the details, they don't make sense....

Bob

I’ve looked around Facebook and there is a current thread on the subject. Opinions are flying, but no proof, and no word from the original poster.  I really have my doubts about the whole mess.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: kkarmical on October 31, 2020, 02:53:29 PM
Thanks Jeffrey


OP of the Texan is supposed to be a former Marine Sniper and a Navy Seal

If this part of the equation is true, then my concern of the OP well being is over shadowed by my internal laughter of their stupidity...
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: ShakySarge on October 31, 2020, 03:02:02 PM
If it was totally user error then it’s a done deal. No one’s fault but the one that mixed the oxygen and air. If the aftermarket parts that were on it were unsafe, we certainly would have known by now.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: wolverine on October 31, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
"OP of the Texan is supposed to be a former Marine Sniper and a Navy Seal as well as a Government employee of some time, owns 3 businesses and so on and so on but i guess he skipped science class."



i'm sorry but anytime i see some one trying to quantify another buy stating things like this, it raises a red flag for me.  it's as if saying it must be true, look at all his credentials

pics or it didn't happen.


boonez40,  i'm saying your stating this, but the original poster of it.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 07:06:00 PM
"OP of the Texan is supposed to be a former Marine Sniper and a Navy Seal as well as a Government employee of some time, owns 3 businesses and so on and so on but i guess he skipped science class."



i'm sorry but anytime i see some one trying to quantify another buy stating things like this, it raises a red flag for me.  it's as if saying it must be true, look at all his credentials

pics or it didn't happen.


boonez40,  i'm saying your stating this, but the original poster of it.

Absolutely not, i stand for no man but myself.

I was just stating the information i was privileged to see, it is my belief that James Sexton  that made all the reports of this Texan exploding is full of cow manure.

I am only stating what James Sexton has said about his good ole friend that is like a brother to him . I will call him Texan Honker as no name has ever been released, first or last.   
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
I have been given the go ahead and release  the private conversation between James Sexton and another member of a facebook group 

This my first Red Flag

James states a full fill of O² on a 4500 psi tank
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 07:48:45 PM
RED FLAG

Air bolt at 1000 FPS  on a 50/50 He mix
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 07:49:05 PM
OP moved pretty quick to the Carolinas to his parents big farm and he is in the Gov't and can't say much or will not say much.

Who is running his 3 businesses ?   
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
James has bone cancer from what i have read on his Facebook profile. I believe stage 2 but do not quote me and his wife has survived cancer 2 times. There are a lot of shared post of people doing raffles for him to give him funds to pay medical bills. 5 grand a clip.  And it is mostly the Air Rifle and Archery industry.

But he has a 5000.00 computer and sniffer to make sure his gas is mixed correctly.

A sniffer is for leaks, correct ? 
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: boonez40 on October 31, 2020, 07:49:45 PM
Marine Sniper, Navy Seal, Government employee, owns 3 business and a cow.

Sorry i threw the cow in there, i figured why not, the smell of @$%^ had to come from something.   
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: avator on November 01, 2020, 06:52:05 AM
I am locking this thread for Admin review. I believe there are GTA forum rule violations here and would like the opinion of forum admins and owner.
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on November 01, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
I am locking this thread for Admin review. I believe there are GTA forum rule violations here and would like the opinion of forum admins and owner.
I agree Bill this thread should be locked and possibly moved to the non Productive gate. The details and such are kind of sketchy
Title: Re: Texan explosion.
Post by: oldpro on November 02, 2020, 01:55:35 PM
 Ive looked into this and called Chad and followed up on facebook and this whole incident seems to be a fabrication by a person simply to get attention so this thread is going to the non productive gate where it belongs.  There is no evidence or way to prove any of this has any factual relevance.