GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: BrushPopper on January 26, 2019, 08:11:08 PM
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I picked up an original Crosman bulk-fill adapter and and a fill valve for a paintball tank. (the adapter fits a 150, 180,160 etc etc).
Seems to yield around half+ the shots of a typical disposable ctg fill.
Velocities are comparable.
Anyone fool with these? Be nice to shoot my 114,116 again, and somedays you just don’t want to have to cycle through 30+ shots to plink a bit.
I’ll get some data and post on it, when I get some decent chrony light outside. Been cloudy here.
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So you are bulk filling and only getting half the shot count?
Or one and a half times the shots of a cart?
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Little more than half, say 18-20 where normally you’d see 30.
This is the point where the power starts tapering off and u know it’s time to refill
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I have a bulk fill adapter I got from Bryan & Associates a few years ago. Not original Crosman but looks pretty much like one. Initially, I tried it on my 160 but wasn't thrilled with the shot count. Of course, that was before I knew to chill the gun and/or warm the tank before filling. I also learned you can get a better fill when your tank is at least half full or more. I ended up putting the bulk adapter on one of my 180s, with an 8" tube extension. I can get 50 or so grams of CO2 in that gun.
I love bulk fill CO2. I have a 114 that is a favorite shooter. Just today, I converted a Sheridan F to bulk fill with an adapter from Mac1.
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That is why I asked.
My bulk fill F and XS60-C get many more shots than using carts.... If cooled and the supply bottle is held upside down to get liquid not gas.
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Wow,
"the supply bottle is held upside down to get liquid not gas."
Never been told or thought about trying it like that.
My 114 gets a lot of shots just chilling the gun and heating the bottle at bit
then just opening the fill valve then closing it when it isn't sounding like any more
is happening.
I've been weighting it before and after and without getting that notepad,
I think it gets at least 3 to 4 carts worth in it, maybe a little less
but more than I seem to need to shoot enough.
Now if I could just get that 113 to take in any C02. LOL
Yea, right
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Appreciate the feedback. How are you heating your tanks, guessing a slightly warm oven? Heatgun on low?
I knew about up-ending the tank, Crosman shows this in the old owner’s manuals for the 114 etc.
Wondering if it’s best to ‘top it off’ when power starts to drop, or shoot it dry before a refill..
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Appreciate the feedback. How are you heating your tanks, guessing a slightly warm oven? Heatgun on low?
I knew about up-ending the tank, Crosman shows this in the old owner’s manuals for the 114 etc.
Wondering if it’s best to ‘top it off’ when power starts to drop, or shoot it dry before a refill..
I warm my tank by immersing it in a bowl of warm water for a few minutes. I always shoot the residual gas from my gun before filling, often wondered if a top-off was feasible. Guess I'll try it sometime.
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John, I should clarify, not all bottles need inverted.
Some CO2 tanks have a siphon tube that picks up the liquid in the upright position.
But most Paintball tanks are to supply gas to the paintball marker and need flipped over to supply liquid..
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I get 60-70 grams of CO2 in my 114s. Equal to 5+ carts.
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I'm tempted to buy one of those old 116's myself cause there's good deals on them sometimes.
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What adapter fits the the 114 and other bulk fill old Crosmans?
Are you filling the original old tank and using it to fill the gun or is there an adapter to go from Paintball tank/ fill station direct to the vintage CO2 guns?
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My bet is that the OP is filling with gas, not liquid CO2.... You should get more shots by bulk filling....
I had a 114 once, and IIRC I drilled through the brass CO2 fill fitting and threaded it for a male Foster.... then bulk filled from a 20 oz. CO2 cylinder through a standard ASA fitting with female Foster.... I had to invert the tank to fill the gun....
If you warm the supply tank and chill the gun, you have a chance of overfilling the gun with CO2.... That can be VERY dangerous, because when the gun warms up the pressure can skyrocket.... high enough to blow a 3K burst disc on a CO2 tank that is overfilled.... :o …. CO2 should always be filled by WEIGHT, not by volume.... The correct weigh of CO2 for a 100% fill is 7/18 oz. per CI.... which works out to 2/3 gram per cc.... For each 30 cc of tube volume, that means 20 grams of CO2....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Important/co2.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Important/co2.jpg.html)
Bob
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Using this. Adapts PB tank to 1/8 NPT. Has an on/off threaded collar.
Fits the crosman adapter and the 114 type guns as well
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Anthony... What is the name of "this" adapter and where did you get "this"?
;D
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This is the paint ball tank adapter I sell with the Crosman 111, 112, 113,114,115,116, 118 air guns when I sell. I can sell them for $19 which includes shipping. (peter_built78@hotmail.com)
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I believe I found it on the “bay”
Pretty sure I paid more than what MB sells his for.
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There's a really nice Crosman 116 on Ebay right now, buy it now for $95 plus about $10 shipping, the gun will more than likely need to be gone through for new seals and poppet fix or replacement but the gun looks like brand new. I'm very tempted to buy it but I think I'm finished buying guns for a while, I'm having a ton of fun with my Crosman 150's plus I'm going to make the airgun show here in Kalamazoo this year to see what I can find for next winters projects.
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"If you warm the supply tank and chill the gun, you have a chance of overfilling the gun with CO2.... That can be VERY dangerous, because when the gun warms up the pressure can skyrocket.... high enough to blow a 3K burst disc on a CO2 tank that is overfilled.... :o …. CO2 should always be filled by WEIGHT, not by volume.... The correct weigh of CO2 for a 100% fill is 7/18 oz. per CI.... which works out to 2/3 gram per cc.... For each 30 cc of tube volume, that means 20 grams of CO2.... "
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Good information to know, Bob. You think 60-70 grams in a 114 is about right?
Here is my bulk fill rig
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7sHpyy.jpg)
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Baker airguns is THE place to get this stuff from. He has a ton of options for bulk filling and his stuff is top notch. You may find something else cheaper but you won't find better. I have a 20lb Co2 bottle and shoot alot of Co2 in the basement. Love it.
Gipper
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Here is my custom shop carbine with Baker airgun goodies installed including his Boss valve system.
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I got a 20 pound tank at an estate sale a year or so ago. The thing is 50 years old, apparently once belonged to Coca Cola. Gave five bucks for it. Had it tested and filled, no more short fills on my paintball tanks at Academy!
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Pretty sure Dick’s short-filled my new tank. Went dry quick. Going to weigh it b4 and after, next time.
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Terry, I don't know the internal volume of a 114 tube, and I no longer have one.... If you can give me the ID and the inside length, from the back of the fill fitting to the front of the valve, I can calculate that for you.... A Disco, with an internal volume of 135 cc can safely hold 90 grams of CO2....
Bob
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I got a Co2 charger from Baker. It let's you use a 12 gram Co2 cartridge to fill the old crosmans. it works well on my 111 and 116.
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My bet is that the OP is filling with gas, not liquid CO2.... You should get more shots by bulk filling....
I had a 114 once, and IIRC I drilled through the brass CO2 fill fitting and threaded it for a male Foster.... then bulk filled from a 20 oz. CO2 cylinder through a standard ASA fitting with female Foster.... I had to invert the tank to fill the gun....
If you warm the supply tank and chill the gun, you have a chance of overfilling the gun with CO2.... That can be VERY dangerous, because when the gun warms up the pressure can skyrocket.... high enough to blow a 3K burst disc on a CO2 tank that is overfilled.... :o …. CO2 should always be filled by WEIGHT, not by volume.... The correct weigh of CO2 for a 100% fill is 7/18 oz. per CI.... which works out to 2/3 gram per cc.... For each 30 cc of tube volume, that means 20 grams of CO2....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Important/co2.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Important/co2.jpg.html)
Bob
Bob, would you mind checking my math? (Never was my strongest subject.) Measured the internal space in my Sheridan F with Mac1 bulk adapter. .75" x 15.25". By my calculation, this is 110.4 cc...? A max fill would be 72 grams? Filled yesterday and got somewhere close to 90 grams in it, dry fired till it was down to about 80. Probably better dry fire some more.
I've always dry fired my bulk fill guns down to empty before refilling. Just assumed this was how to do it, since my 12 gram guns are always empty before recharging. Now I know this is not necessary. Experimenting with using ice packs against the tube, wrapped in a towel, to chill it for about 15 minutes. Seems to work pretty well, I think warming the supply tank when doing this is a bit of overkill.
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Guess that is one good thing about living up north. I could just put the gun out in the garage for an hour and keep the bottle at indoor room temp.
Lately that has been a 70 degree difference. ::)
Reminds me... I need to take my bottle to Dick's for a refill.
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Anthony, if there is any CO2 still in gun, you won't be able to get a full fill if the gun and tank are at the same temperature. Chill the gun a little in the refrigerator or set the tank in the sun for few minutes. Just get the gun colder than the tank and you will get a better fill.
I shoot my 115 quite often and am waiting on a 114 I just bought off e-bay. Hope I don't have to reseal the 114.
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Or you could also just do some rapid shots and that will cool the gun.
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I refill a small propane tank from a larger one and to get a full fill I poor a cup of boiling water on the big tank which allows it to fill up to the fully filled weight
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You can also warm the tank up by standing it in a small bucket with the hot water out of the tap. Filled my 114 right up. Gun was at room temperature. Won't over heat the tank in the hot water. Also put the pistol in the refrigerator for a few minutes if need it colder than room temp.
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My setup is just like Terrym.
Works well. I do warm the tank in hot tap water so it is warmer than the gun.
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I put my 20 paintball tanks in the freezer before filling from the 20 lb. eductor (siphon) tank. I carefully weigh the 20 oz tank before and after filling. Usually I have to bleed off the the tank slightly to achieve the proper 20 oz weight. Temps below 100 degrees F are in the safe zone. Never expose the tanks to direct sunlight where temps can easily exceed 100 degrees!
BTW, Tim just resealed my 150 last week. He gassed it up and it had a slight internal leak. He took a propane torch and heated up the gas cylinder slightly on both sides. The leak disappeared and the gun works flawlessly now. Just a thought! dave