GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Topic started by: JuryRigger on May 18, 2021, 08:22:33 PM

Title: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 18, 2021, 08:22:33 PM
   Starting this thread instead of adding to another thread about an ACP I intend to build...
For some time now; I have been working on building a small lathe-it will have about 3" of swing over the carriage and roughly 18" between centers; and I am trying to make it from as few store-bought components as possible; with hand tools and a drill press. So far; it appears all that I will need to purchase is a piece of all-thread for the leadscrew; and some pan head cap screws.
The bed I made some time ago while I had access to a welder-it is a piece of .5" x 3" cold rolled steel bar; plug welded to a piece of 1" x 2" bar; 24" long. All other parts are cut and filed by hand mostly from 1/2" or 3/8" mild steel plate and bar scraps that I have collected; along with several pieces of bearing bronze that I saved from the scrap bin...

   The headstock is not quite what I originally intended; but the task of boring out and scraping in split block bearings from my extremely limited and precious bronze supply proved too daunting... And I reverted to some cheap .5" shaft 2-bolt flange bearings that I had laying around; which in a preliminary test cut made with everything clamped together proved to be quite rigid and relatively smooth... Drive will be by countershaft from miniature V-belt step pulleys from that will be turned from stacked 1/2" nylon flat stock; again saved from the garbage bin... If I can manage it later; I even have a gear set rescued from an old hammer drill that will make a backgear of about 1:3 final reduction... The carriage cross slide is moved with a 1/4-20 stud pulled off an old lawnmower engine; and the carriage feed itself will be from a 3/8-16 threaded rod by a split nut and carriage crank wormwheel.
Finishing this project will take some time; a lot of details are being sorted out as I go and some parts are not even designed yet... I intend to scrape in all sliding surfaces; which will be quite a task in of itself.
I will update with pics as I go; progress will be slow due to limited playtime and primitive methods, so hang in there  ;)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 18, 2021, 08:26:02 PM
The very beginning-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7905)
Overall view of carriage-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7906)
Close-ups of carriage-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7907)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7908)
Updated overall view with headstock-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7909)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on May 18, 2021, 08:36:14 PM
nice , the good news is once a chuck is mounted, you can make more parts for the lathe.  I see after rereading you already tested those headstock bearings.. cool project, a lot of pateience.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 18, 2021, 08:42:58 PM
No kidding.... Not having ANY machine tools past a tired old drill press is a hassle.  :(
If and when this is ever finished; a hand-powered shaper is next....
Need to snap a pic of my test piece; mind you I had to tap the carriage along with a stick to "turn" it while revving up the hand drill I was spinning things with, cutting being done by a 3/4" triangle carbide insert with one corner broken off that I picked up bolted down on top of whatever fit under it, LOL...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on May 18, 2021, 09:04:16 PM
Excellent stuff right here!!!!

Keep your determination, I’ll be cheering from here.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 18, 2021, 09:49:16 PM
Thanks Dave!
Here's pics of my test piece; it's a steel spacer of some kind 1 1/16" OD that I "bolted" onto the shaft by extending it out further and clamping with a nut and washer... Think DOC was about .010"-.015"; there is a very faint chatter in spots but that was when I didn't keep the "feed" going fast enough... Also tried plunging a few times; stopped when the chatter started-the insert I used has roughly an .035" tip radius so am pleased with the depth/width of the plunge...
It feels smoother than it looks; and a "caliper check" (2 points-not exactly a good test) showed it as round...
Jesse
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7910)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7911)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7912)
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 06, 2021, 07:55:46 PM
Whew... Getting a warning to be sure that I want to post, since the thread is over 120 days old...  :o
But-still alive. Now that the sun is setting early, getting some time to spend out in the shed working on projects. No pics (yet); but finally got some parts that I had a start on fit together-now have a 3/8-16 "leadscrew" and the right-hand bearing block, and bronze bearing nut. Have no way to bore a hole accurately enough to press fit a bronze bushing; plus then I would have had to turn down the all-thread rod-which I did not want to do; so instead I used a .5" piloted counterbore that I have, and created a .3125" (? been awhile) deep recess in the 1/2" bar stock bracket, polished it out as smooth as I could get without disturbing the geometry; and then proceeded to make my bronze bearing nut... I took a small block of bearing bronze about a half-inch thick, and drilled and tapped it 3/8-16. I then chucked up a matching stud in the drill press, threaded my block on, and went to town with my roto-tool and a burr bit. I clamped the rotary tool down, and stroked the block with the quill while running the spindle as slow as I could-after a short while, I got it nicely parallel-sided, to just a bit over hole size, with a quite pretty hammered-looking finish. I then took it down the rest of the way with a file, until my bearing bracket was a nice slip fit over it-so far it looks like it will work. Have the bracket made for the headstock end, just need to square up the end of the bed, drill and tap for the bracket, and make another bearing nut-then I'll officially have screw feed in both axis... Then I'll have to start finishing up the headstock (not nearly as nice a unit as I first intended for this build-but could always upgrade later); and wrap up the fine details (LOL) like the drive system; handwheels, and then the final scraping in and alignments-then it's down to accessories-like a steady rest, tailstock, chucks, and the like.
Jesse 
Oh-and to clarify my post on the test piece above-the total stock removal was around .010"-.015"-so the actual DOC was around .005"-.008"... My bad  :-[
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 07, 2021, 12:44:23 AM
Start of the next bearing nut:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8165)
Will 'turn' it down tomorrow-with pics of the process, haven't included any of those yet, then you'll get to see just why I chose my username  ;D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: WhatUPSbox? on October 07, 2021, 06:42:32 PM
then you'll get to see just why I chose my username  ;D
Jesse

Heck, I always thought it was a courtroom thing.

Nice work by the way.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 08, 2021, 12:57:03 AM
Heck, I always thought it was a courtroom thing.

Nice work by the way.
Never been in a courtroom-never hope to be...  ;)
And thanks :D
...
So, finished up the bearing nut today; started by threading it against a jam nut, with the stud a bit shy of the bottom so that I could file it flat. I got everything set up; then started by running the quill up and down, rotating the spindle by hand to knock off the corners:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8168)
Got the corners knocked off; started the spindle up, and worked my way in until things cleaned up:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8169)
The counterbore that it is meant to fit measured in at .502"; so I took it down to .505"  and then switched to a file. Kept trying the fit; got it to where it was just still a mite grabby; and then ran it in under power. Still a bit stiff; but I'd rather try to polish out the CB more.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8170)
Need to square up the end of the bed, then drill & tap for the bracket; and I'll be able to try a few test cuts with screw feed.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 13, 2021, 07:11:12 PM
No pics, but got the bed drilled and tapped for the leadscrew bracket last night-works like it should. Now to try another test piece...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 14, 2021, 07:48:09 PM
OK-I'm happy  ;D
Got everything rigged-up for another test cut; grabbed a worn 1/8" carbide cutoff insert and went to town on another large steel spacer of some kind 1 1/2" in diameter...
And was able to plunge it straight in with no perceptible or visible chatter 3/8" away from the headstock bearings...  :D
So, moved out to 3/4"... Only the faintest trace showing in the cut...  :D :D
Moved out again, to 1 3/8".......
Only beginning to see/feel any real chatter-and even then it is barely there   8)
Then the big mystery steel spacer that I was using broke loose, and I stalled the Milwaukee 1/2 drill that I was using to drive the spindle, ripped it out of my hand and levered the whole lathe in the air...  :o ::) :P
But-it didn't even knock anything out of alignment...  ;D
So-now I know that it will handle some decent cuts, but I have another problem...
I don't have a big enough motor to drive it  ;)
Will add pics later, if the site will let me  ::)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on October 14, 2021, 08:38:39 PM
What size swing do you have? Can’t remember.

I REALLY like using treadmill motors on my home built machines. I even use one on my Bport and my large drill press.

You think you could scrounge up an old treadmill?

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 14, 2021, 09:17:39 PM
Will swing 3" over the carriage and cross slide, and 5" over the bed... When it comes time, I'll try to dig up an old treadmill; as the low-speed torque would be very nice to have.
About to try and load pics...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on October 14, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
If you can’t come up with one, let me know, we’ll get you fixed up.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 14, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
Thanks Dave-that is most generous! I'll get back with you if I end up stuck; not too worried about motors just yet as there is lots to be done on the lathe itself still... (Scraping, alignment, fine details, other parts)
Here's the pics; I forgot to rotate the spindle to show the other side of the last groove, not just where it crashed; but you can still see how smooth it is up near the top-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8174)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8173)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 20, 2021, 10:45:56 PM
Did some finishing work on the leadscrew nuts, filed wrench flats on them and made a thin wrench to fit out of some 1/8" flat stock.
Have to address the left-hand bearing block and nut, as there is some cumulative binding as though the nut face is not entirely square, along with the bracket... Binds up in one spot in the rotation, with no axial play-at the loose area in the rotation, there is axial play...
Also tried milling on a block for the heck of it; used a keyed chuck to hold a 1/4" endmill to cut a slot 1/16" deep, worked but far from rigid enough to achieve anything useable... A better setup might make it possible, but a milling attachment will not be in the accessory list.
Unsure of what to tackle next... Either the toolpost, or chuck shopping so that I can decide just how I'm going to finish the spindle...
Hum...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 23, 2021, 10:14:11 PM
Got the left-hand leadscrew bearing bind issue (mostly) fixed; was a combination of the nut not being quite square and the leadscrew being slightly bent-still has some wobble in it, but will save the full straightening for the final assembly and lineup (if I can, as it appears to be a corkscrew twist and will be very hard to remove). Currently working on a final design for the compound slide and toolpost; think that I am pretty close to finished with the design work so can start on the actual construction tomorrow.
Beginning to shop around for tooling...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: OTmachine on October 23, 2021, 11:23:31 PM
Interesting build, but what I do not understand is;  that you, living in one of the biggest machinery graveyards in the U.S., would not just buy some vintage American Lathe?  Guess that you just wanted a challenge.  Just wondering.  No offense intended.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 24, 2021, 01:27:21 AM
No offense taken, it's a legitimate question... Short answer, is cash. I did look around a few years back, but it was still going to set me back several hundred dollars (if not a thousand or more after tooling up) to get a decent machine... Currently, will be able to keep things down to maybe a hundred, hundred and fifty, if I am careful. Long answer, that decent machine would have been bigger than I could handle, as for whatever reason smaller lathes command higher prices-likely due to the same issues that I have, space. Have no room for anything bigger than benchtop size, and since my bench space is limited I must be able to lift and move it... But, there's more than that-my workshop is a unheated dirt-floored shed-one can imagine the issues that are inherent with that. Lastly, I did want the challenge-I enjoy building things, and am somewhat enamoured with the old ways of chipping, filing, and scraping in precision parts and tools by hand-so it was a perfect project for me.
If I had a nice shop with the space, I would pony up the cash and have some noble old workhorse tucked away for restoration and joyful use, as you simply cannot beat good, old American iron from years gone by...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: OTmachine on October 24, 2021, 11:33:10 AM
No offense taken, it's a legitimate question... Short answer, is cash. I did look around a few years back, but it was still going to set me back several hundred dollars (if not a thousand or more after tooling up) to get a decent machine... Currently, will be able to keep things down to maybe a hundred, hundred and fifty, if I am careful. Long answer, that decent machine would have been bigger than I could handle, as for whatever reason smaller lathes command higher prices-likely due to the same issues that I have, space. Have no room for anything bigger than benchtop size, and since my bench space is limited I must be able to lift and move it... But, there's more than that-my workshop is a unheated dirt-floored shed-one can imagine the issues that are inherent with that. Lastly, I did want the challenge-I enjoy building things, and am somewhat enamoured with the old ways of chipping, filing, and scraping in precision parts and tools by hand-so it was a perfect project for me.
If I had a nice shop with the space, I would pony up the cash and have some noble old workhorse tucked away for restoration and joyful use, as you simply cannot beat good, old American iron from years gone by...
Jesse
I can relate to that.  Same setup that I had in Florida.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Mark Davis on October 27, 2021, 09:33:50 AM
Nice work. you will have a tool to be proud of.

You seem to have some good ability to scrounge material. Was drooling over the iron you made the bed from.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 27, 2021, 12:19:39 PM
Nice work. you will have a tool to be proud of.

You seem to have some good ability to scrounge material. Was drooling over the iron you made the bed from.
Thanks-the steel for this took awhile to scrounge, got the big 1x2 bar from one place that I worked when they cleaned out the toolroom/maintenance area and were getting rid of some assorted junk, and the 1/2"x3" that the top of the bed is made of was drop from another place that I worked, where they had to start cleaning out the drop rack because it was getting stacked too deep... A possible suggestion; as to where to scrounge sources of steel and other drops-but if you check around the fab/welding shops in your area (if there are any); chances are that they have drop racks with a goodly assortment of variety and size of cold-roll that they might make you fair deals on-if they have a laser or waterjet cutter, a check of the hoppers might net you some decent strips of hot and cold-roll plate and sheet metal for scrap prices... Of course, there might be a lot of shops that won't do that, but the one that I worked at did.
Just a suggestion,
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 02, 2022, 06:43:48 PM
Have a chuck and some 5/16" square HSS tool bit blanks on the way; needed parts to hold them both...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8395)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8396)
Roughed out the slots in the toolpost with hacksaw and drill press; then milled the pockets out with a 1/4" end mill in a 1/2" drill chuck on the lathe... About as stiff as a wet noodle; but it worked  :D
Managed to knock the carriage a bit out of whack; the force from milling was a bit too much for the two (will be three once I have the proper hardware) bolts holding the rear guide bar that rides along the edge of the bed-the leadscrew bearing block binds a bit now. Will likely need to pin that particular joint; but of course with the third bolt and the mating surfaces scraped in it may not be a problem... Will wait and see. Once I have the chuck; I'll skim the backplate so that I can temporarily mount the chuck; to make some other parts for the leadscrew(s). Then I'll be ordering some parts from Grizzly to expedite the construction of the tailstock-going to cut down a generic 7x mini lathe tailstock casting to mount it on my own base; just buying the parts that I can't make-it will only cost me about $50 to have a tailstock-including a center-not too bad, considering. After I get the tailstock made; and finish the spindle-I'll be taking it all apart and scraping things in, and then painting it all up... Such accessories as the compound slide; steady rest, and such will be made later; but right now I'm trying to get my rear into gear to at least get the base unit functioning... Also need to build a drive system.
Oh, and before I did all this-I did some filework to align the headstock. So far, it's parallel to within about .003" in 6" to the bed; or .0005" in 1"-so it is close enough to do some non-critical work.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on January 02, 2022, 07:52:10 PM
Progress!

Don’t forget to give me a shout if you end up needing a tm motor/controller.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 03, 2022, 02:31:53 PM
Thanks Dave; I'll do that if it comes to it-starting to drive around more; so am watching the curb... Spotted one left out for the garbage man a couple weeks back; but the truck was full so I couldn't grab it  ::)... Going to start checking Craigslist, too...
Anyways; got the set screw holes in the toolpost tapped; and threaded the M5 setscrews that I thought were 10-32 (sigh  :P) to 10-32; and ground an edge on the only piece of HSS that I currently have-a 1/4x3/4x5" cutoff blank; and skimmed the faceplate...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8397)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8398)
Came out pretty good-couldn't get a pic, as to hold the cell phone, straightedge, and flashlight to show it required more hands than I have; but it is ever so slightly concave-just as it should be  ;D
Now to figure out what I can do while waiting impatiently for my LMS order to show up....   ::)
Jesse

Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 11, 2022, 07:08:51 PM
Got my order in today, and got a few more things done. Started off by disassembling the chuck and relubing it; used heavy gear oil on the scroll and pinions; ATF on the jaw ways; and Ballistol on the exterior surfaces. Drilled the bolt circle for the chuck, flipped the plate and skimmed the other side, and mounted it... Chucked up a .5" dowel pin, and tapped it to within .001" TIR (didn't turn a spigot; this is not the permanent backplate)... Threaded it off; and back on-still within .001"... Working on a fixed steady; and needed to clean up a cutoff from a piece of large pipe-so faced both sides, and chamfered the inner and outer edges...
So far, so good-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8410)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on January 11, 2022, 09:26:13 PM
sweet , if i ever got my 3 jaw to .001 id never take it off ( i do get it there after grinding the jaws.. but rarely wanna do that
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 11, 2022, 09:57:11 PM
That's just on a .5" pin; haven't yet tried different sized pins to see what happens across the clamping range-fingers crossed... Also don't know how well it will stay put with no spigot...
Might check the TIR with different pins tomorrow; if it turns out-I might have won the Chinese chuck lottery!  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on January 11, 2022, 10:34:48 PM
yea theres always a limit to scroll chucks.. when i do grind jaws, i hole a retainer ring in the back thats the most common size i hold , so it will be accurate in that size range , but not necessarily otheers.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on January 12, 2022, 08:04:35 AM
I’m considering the soft jaw type. If I could find a cheap one for my mini lathe. I’ve been using the collets I have for most of my valve work. I’ve got a few that are in that size range.

Any of you used the soft three jaw?

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 12, 2022, 09:46:20 AM
I’m considering the soft jaw type. If I could find a cheap one for my mini lathe. I’ve been using the collets I have for most of my valve work. I’ve got a few that are in that size range.

Any of you used the soft three jaw?

Dave
Haven't used them, but Taig has a small one fairly cheap ($75)-it's threaded 3/4-16: .    https://taigtools.com/product/3-jaw-3-1-4-dia-self-centering-scroll-chuck/   (https://taigtools.com/product/3-jaw-3-1-4-dia-self-centering-scroll-chuck/)
And if it closes small enough (don't know)-they have an odd ball self centering soft jaw 4 jaw with 1"-8 thread for $20 (not kidding! It must be a clearance item) .  https://taigtools.com/product/4-jaw-3-1-4-dia-self-centering-scroll-chuck-1-8-thread/  (https://taigtools.com/product/4-jaw-3-1-4-dia-self-centering-scroll-chuck-1-8-thread/) no personal experience with either of those chucks, though...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 20, 2022, 08:48:02 PM
Most of the way there on the fixed steady-still have to cut some of the screws down; chamfer some edges; and cut a clearance notch in the riser block that the ring attaches to-plus blacken the steel parts; and put brass inserts in the fingers... Didn't figure it'd take me so long, but upon reflection there are almost as many individual parts; and tapped holes as the entire carriage and cross slide(!)...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8419)
Came up with retractable 'fingers' to clamp it to the bed; just drop it on; and tighten the screws-fingers flip out; and flip back when you loosen them-there's a spring around the screw...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8420)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8421)
Interesting observation-when drilling in cold weather (10 degrees Fahrenheit)-you may notice this... But, my drill started to bind (the way it feels when you have a really dull drill, and it's cutting a tapered hole and wedging in) about .25" deep in a hole to be threaded... Thought that was strange; and paused for a moment-then proceeded to start again-all the sudden, no binding(?)... I believe that the drill had heated enough to swell, and bind in the hole-and after it cooled from sitting up there spinning while I was contemplating, it was back down to it's original size-kinda weird; but not that odd when you think about it.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 31, 2022, 08:39:33 PM
Getting very close to having all basic functions operational; put brass inserts in the fingers on the steady, and did a test cut-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8455)
Might add pusher screws later; but it works. Got the cheap 7x tailstock casting that I ordered cut down; and made a new base for it-unfortunately I cut it a bit close; and need to shim it now after filing the base in. Currently the quill is parallel to the base to .001" in 2"; will scrape it in the rest of the way-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8456)
Pretty much down to turning the handwheel for the cross slide; and adapter bushings for the two cast handles that I currently have for the leadscrew and tailstock; to have a fully functional machine (sort of). Then I'll bore some blocks for proper spindle bearings; after which I might just start putting this lathe to some use before doing the massive job of scraping everything in, and finishing the lathe (plus making a new headstock, and a proper drive system)-took enough care to align things that it is accurate enough for non-critical work; so I might just get to return to the project this was made for before too much longer  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on January 31, 2022, 09:03:37 PM
very nice !  id put wheels on those fingers were i making a steadyrest
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on January 31, 2022, 09:12:03 PM
You know I love it. What did you say you are powering it with at present?

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 31, 2022, 09:21:16 PM
very nice !  id put wheels on those fingers were i making a tailstock
Wheels on the fingers?...
No understandy... Or do you mean on the fixed steady, not the tailstock?
You know I love it. What did you say you are powering it with at present?

Dave
A 1/2" Milwaukee drill; makes you want three hands but it works for the time being-pretty much decided to rebuild the headstock with a proper spindle and bearings; so have been holding off setting this one up for a proper drive as of yet.
And thanks all  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on January 31, 2022, 09:49:20 PM
sorry typo , i meant steady rest.. yes, little bearings on the fingers are a nice touch.. as far as poweing the lathe with a corded drill , thats actually not a bad idea..its already got a good torque gear ratio pre- installed , and a pot box of sorts in the trigger.,
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 31, 2022, 10:02:26 PM
sorry typo , i meant steady rest.. yes, little bearings on the fingers are a nice touch.. as far as poweing the lathe with a corded drill , thats actually not a bad idea..its already got a good torque gear ratio pre- installed , and a pot box of sorts in the trigger.,
Ah-gotcha  :D
Might do that; probably with a separate set of fingers-as the brass tips will allow me to hold a very small shaft.
As far as the drill-it's only a temporary thing; chuck it on and spin it up-though I can see how it wouldn't be too bad an idea; except for I doubt many drills (short of industrial-grade ones like Milwaukee) could take the sustained RPM's (heat).
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on January 31, 2022, 10:21:42 PM
yea, that might be an issue ( heat )  but keep in mind the gearing dictates the amp draw , so were the drill 3-1 drive to the spindle , it would run cooler even at high rpm.. Other motor setups get expensive .. I used to build ( and still do ) electric scooters and go karts for a hobby.. What ive found between that and building cnc machines ( just finished the cnc lathe ) theres no cheap way to get all the features of a good controller/motor combo without actually buying a good controller/motor combo lol..  You either lack variable speed, need to buy a vfd, lack torque , or burn up motors while running an decent controller with a cheap motor  and the list goes on.. Anyway , for a small mini lathe , a drill actually checks a lot of boxes for dirt cheap , assuming it had some external cooling , and an actual pot knob adjustment . Just food for thought when you start setting up for the final motor combo.. Oned example of this is the mini lathes everyone buys , yea, they work well , but that controller running the DC motor is actually the most expensive part on the machine , generally close to 1/3 the total price of the machine . Yes it allows them to run the cheap dc motor , but if that controller goes out , its not cheap to substitute.  sorry fior the rant ,,. carry on
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 31, 2022, 10:31:58 PM
yea, that might be an issue ( heat )  but keep in mind the gearing dictates the amp draw , so were the drill 3-1 drive to the spindle , it would run cooler even at high rpm.. Other motor setups get expensive .. I used to build ( and still do ) electric scooters and go karts for a hobby.. What ive found between that and building cnc machines ( just finished the cnc lathe ) theres no cheap way to get all the features of a good controller/motor combo without actually buying a good controller/motor combo lol..  You either lack variable speed, need to buy a vfd, lack torque , or burn up motors while running an decent controller with a cheap motor  and the list goes on.. Anyway , for a small mini lathe , a drill actually checks a lot of boxes for dirt cheap , assuming it had some external cooling , and an actual pot knob adjustment . Just food for thought when you start setting up for the final motor combo
All very true; currently thinking a TM motor drive, Dave's offered to help me out regarding that-so that's the current plan.
Biggest thing that I've noticed with the drill; is that at the slower speeds; you will get noticeable slowing of the RPM when you start a heavy cut; although nothing that couldn't be accounted for and dealt with.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on January 31, 2022, 10:43:10 PM
sounds good ,treadmill solves everything
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on January 31, 2022, 11:00:00 PM
Since you are this close, pm me your addy and I’ll try to get you a motor w/ controller sent. You’ll probably have to wing it on the pulleys, I think I’m out.

The treadmill motors can run at some ridiculously high rpm, so I generally gear lower and get a bunch of torque at lower speeds yet still have my higher rpm’s.

I’m sure I’ve mentioned it but I don’t use the flywheel on the motor. It’s not needed for our machines. It does however have the cooling fan cast into it. I use a delco alternator fan (correct id for shaft).

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on January 31, 2022, 11:25:14 PM
Since you are this close, pm me your addy and I’ll try to get you a motor w/ controller sent. You’ll probably have to wing it on the pulleys, I think I’m out.

The treadmill motors can run at some ridiculously high rpm, so I generally gear lower and get a bunch of torque at lower speeds yet still have my higher rpm’s.

I’m sure I’ve mentioned it but I don’t use the flywheel on the motor. It’s not needed for our machines. It does however have the cooling fan cast into it. I use a delco alternator fan (correct id for shaft).

Dave
Many thanks, going to hold off a bit longer as I really haven't had much time to scrounge locally; and it will probably take me another two/three months to get the new spindle box together anyways.
Will keep you posted,
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on February 01, 2022, 06:17:59 AM
Alright then.

I need to do some figuring on pulley sizes that would be optimal. What rpm range you looking for at the spindle? I run mine ALL the time and don’t have a clue what my rpm is…lol

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 01, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Alright then.

I need to do some figuring on pulley sizes that would be optimal. What rpm range you looking for at the spindle? I run mine ALL the time and don’t have a clue what my rpm is…lol

Dave
Have a scheme in mind to make this spindle dual-purpose; so that I could swap it to a mill should I ever get that far-so wanting to get down to at least 180 (lowest I usually needed at work)-though for threading in the lathe; 60 would be nice as the low-figure somewhere around 2-2.5K RPM should be just fine for tops. Don't worry about pulleys; as I'm stocked with material and cast-offs-besides; I'm thinking about adding a backgear setup which would complicate the math a bit  :D.
Will let you know when the time comes;
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on February 01, 2022, 11:35:41 AM
Motor mount styles and a nameplate/size pic.

They are pretty small for the power they produce.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 01, 2022, 12:00:23 PM
Motor mount styles and a nameplate/size pic.

They are pretty small for the power they produce.

Dave
PM sent
Definitely nice that they are so small; and thanks for the pics-gives me an idea of how to integrate that part.
Thanks,
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on February 01, 2022, 02:17:40 PM
The flywheel threads on, left hand thread. I generally cut the ‘nut’ part from the flywheel.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 01, 2022, 10:13:21 PM
Got the tailstock shimmed and centered to the limit of calibrated Kentucky Windage eyeball specs; and turned/drilled/tapped bushings for the two die-cast handwheels that I was going to use on the leadscrew and tailstock-man but it's great to be making chips on a machine tool shaped object again  :D
Was interesting drilling the holes; as the only way I had to feed the tailstock was with a ratchet on the leadscrew nut, LOL...
Still have some work to do on them; need to drill for the setscrew in the handwheel on the tailstock, and add wrench flats for the tapped one on the leadscrew-plus make up new rotating handles, as the current pot metal ones leave much to be desired. Definitely will be upgrading the spindle first thing-tried running the 3/8-16 tap in under power; and when I went to unthread the backplate it was so jammed that I bent the spindle nose trying to get it off  ::) Noticing that it is not as rigid as it first seemed-which did seem too good to be true-heavy cuts stabilize and don't chatter; very fine ones are okay too, but a middling cut audibly complains; to the disdain of the finish...
So, need to rethread it and go through the chuck mounting process again-but that's okay; as threading the other side for a jam nut to preload the bearings was one of my next tasks; in preparation for boring blocks for spindle bearings.
                                                                           Woo-Hoo!!!       ;D                                                   
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 18, 2022, 05:53:50 PM
Minor update; have the spindle figured out-going to cut down a 7x10/12 casting; saves time and it didn't cost any more than the current market value of the steel that I would have used building one; so took the easy route. Have the casting, spindle, nuts and such on order; can't start disassembling the lathe for scraping and finishing just yet-as I need to turn a drive pulley and spacer. So, finished smoothing out the rough edges on the steady; and blackened it up-still need to touch up the screw ends...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8470)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on February 18, 2022, 11:52:45 PM
that looks great
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on February 19, 2022, 08:49:36 AM
I agree

Fantastic work.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 19, 2022, 11:21:38 AM
Thanks guys, it's a-gettin' there!  :D
Can't wait to start scraping everything in...  Which reminds me, I need to finish the scraper that I was working on-just needs a handle; and the steel parts blued-uses replaceable HSS blades that I cut from a broken cold saw blade.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 21, 2022, 09:02:46 PM
Scraper's done-also started working on friction dials-using a counterbored wave spring to provide the tension-makes for a very compact and easily-made setup, fairly smooth-acting, although I haven't finished the first one yet... Cut the counterbore with a improvised boring bar ground from a broken 3/16" hex shank drill-wanted to chatter pretty bad on the face cut; but did a fair job boring...
Might recut it once I have the new headstock on the lathe; and proper boring bars...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8473)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8474)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 25, 2022, 09:47:27 PM
Finished cutting down and filing in the headstock casting today; got it parallel to .003" over it's length-will scrape it in the rest of the way. Gave it a good scrub to get the powdery iron swarf out of all the nooks and crannies; and hot glued in a sheet metal partition so that I don't drop scraping swarf into the bearings when I scrape it in-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8476)
The other thing that I needed to do in preparation of assembling the spindle was extend the keyway in the spindle; to handle the drive sheave-ground it in with the rotary tool-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8477)
Still waiting for the bearings to ship... ::)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on February 25, 2022, 10:45:58 PM
Nice update….getting a little closer all the time.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on February 26, 2022, 10:15:13 AM
nice , whats the spindle out of ?
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on February 26, 2022, 11:04:36 AM
nice , whats the spindle out of ?
The spindle was also for the 7x10/12 series mini lathes, with the two speed gear head.
That's why the keyway on the outboard end of the spindle needed lengthened, as it wasn't setup for an outboard drive sheave-only the stud gear.
I debated going for parts for the HiTorque model, but those were a lot more expensive.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on March 06, 2022, 09:56:40 PM
Not much of an update; but after getting burned twice on bearings that were supposed to be in-stock; I finally got them through another company... :P
Arrived the next day after placing the order; in comparison to waiting two weeks to find out an item was backordered for a month...  ::)
Started working on the drive sheave; but am having issues with the jury-rig spindle-it keeps moving around; can't even make a complete skim cut across the backplate without it shifting. So, have came up with a way to drive the new headstock with the hand drill; and will turn the drive sheave on the new spindle itself, have spacers to set the preload without the drive sheave in the meantime. Since I don't need/can't use the other spindle unit; I started stripping the lathe down-going to do all the finishing work/scraping before putting the new headstock on. As the TM motor already had a 10-groove J-series poly-V belt sheave on it; I'm going to use it-should be able to squeeze 10 grooves into the drive sheave; and will setup a tensioner to get more wrap around the motor sheave... Figure it should have more than enough grab that way. Currently aiming at a drive ratio of 2.23:1; which will give me a top speed of 3000 RPM; and still be running the motor at 402 RPM for the spindle to run at 180 RPM-should still have good torque at low speed; or so I'm hoping  ;)
Also got the mounting holes in the headstock drilled and tapped-sort of missed getting those in before cleaning up the casting...  :-\
Jesse

Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on March 18, 2022, 09:40:07 PM
Most of the way there on a control box-still need to fabricate a top; and add SS mesh vents on the sides and bottom (plus a good deburr/cleanup and some paint):
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8486)
Also am close to having one leadscrew bracket completed; just need to fab a lid for the oil reservoir; blue it; and put in the felt wick.
Did some talking with Dave; and got the TM motor running-very pleased with the low-speed torque on it; will have a much lower useable speed than I first hoped for.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on March 19, 2022, 08:13:47 AM
Can’t remember if you mentioned here or pm, what belt and drive ratio you gonna use?

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on March 19, 2022, 11:20:44 AM
Can’t remember if you mentioned here or pm, what belt and drive ratio you gonna use?

Dave
Going to use a 8 (10 if I can squeeze it into the face of the spindle sheave, that I have yet to turn) rib J-series Poly-V belt, and a ratio of about 2.2:1 so I should get a top speed around 3k rpm-guessing that the useable low limit on the motor from playing with it yesterday was about 180-ish, so I should have a spindle speed range running from about 60 rpm all the way up to 3k.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on March 19, 2022, 11:01:01 PM
Got the legs/motor mount made today; also drilled and tapped holes in the bed to bolt them on with-I'm planning on sheathing the legs in sheet metal before I put them on permanently. That finishes all the drilling/tapping on the bed; so now I can get it scraped in and painted-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8487)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on March 20, 2022, 08:34:55 AM
Seeing the motor next to bed gives me some proportionality. Looks like it’s going to fit/look quite well.

Progressing nicely.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on March 20, 2022, 06:44:22 PM
looking good , ive been watching , just nothing to add ( which is good
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on March 20, 2022, 10:45:10 PM
Seeing the motor next to bed gives me some proportionality. Looks like it’s going to fit/look quite well.

Progressing nicely.

Dave
It does fit very well-very pleased with the way things are going!
looking good
Thanks!

Got one of the leadscrew brackets finished today; the small brass screw is for a pointer for the division ring that will sit to the right of the bracket-put in a 3/8" CB about 3/8" deep to act as an oil reservoir; put a felt wick in the communicating hole and pad in the CB to hopefully meter the flow-if not; it will be an easily accessible oil hole-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8488)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8489)
Oiled it up and wrapped it in paper to store until everything is ready to come together-that ought to be cool seeing it all take shape...  :D
Jesse

Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on March 26, 2022, 02:06:14 AM
Other leadscrew bracket finished; waiting for the temps to stabilize before getting set up to scrape the bed in-might wait until I can hit a simpler part first, as I will be teaching myself the art as I go...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 05, 2022, 10:22:57 PM
Copper scrapers/felt wipers made; also drilled oil holes in the carriage. Getting a scraping station set up in the shed; smurf blue fingers here we come!  ;D
(Going to try very hard to keep it to just blue fingers-if I track any Dykem Hi-Spot paste into the house my family will kill me!  :o)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on April 06, 2022, 08:11:41 AM
Sounds like some sore arms in your future, lol.

Take lots of pictures!

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 06, 2022, 11:55:04 AM
Sounds like some sore arms in your future, lol.

Take lots of pictures!

Dave
Will be doing that!
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 08, 2022, 11:42:28 PM
Got started tonight; first took a scaling cut across the carriage base plate-my cuts aren't all they should be yet (putting it mildly, LOL)-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8497)
Dykem rolled out on the plate-made a rubber brayer from 1/2" nylon stock and a roller from a inkjet printer-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8498)
First spotting; the rock test showed it as high in the center; so I disregarded the two patches at the end-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8499)
Second spotting-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8500)
Scraped sirface-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8501)
Third spotting-think I wasn't keeping the cuts rough enough; as it seems like the high spots might be breaking up a bit early; but I'm not sure-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8502)
Fourth spotting-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8503)
Fifth spotting-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8504)
Scraped surface-my cuts are getting more even/better guided-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8505)
Sixth spotting-starting to rock at both ends now; actually a bit low in the center-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8506)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 08, 2022, 11:46:42 PM
Seventh spotting-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8507)
Eighth spotting-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8508)
Ninth spotting-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8509)
Tenth spotting; rock test is showing it as flat now; and I'm starting to get the bearing to fill in the sides-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8510)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 09, 2022, 12:36:18 AM
Still getting the hang of things, but can say that I was getting a better feel for the manipulation of the scraper as things went along-definetely not perfect yet, though...  Mostly need to get the length of my strokes under control. Probably have at least another night's work in getting the bearing on that side of the plate scraped, will have the additional fun of having to scrape the other side parallel to this one.
Not too smurfy yet, I cheated a bit and didn't wipe the blue on the plate every cycle-did have some swarf manage to evade me and get on the plate, but I knew it happened right off by the marks and feel on the plate... Using 70% iso for cleanup ATM, mostly just one bluish area on the heel of my left hand, from resting on the bench while scraping-along with some slivers too, from the swarf.
Hopefully more tomorrow, not sure if I'll feel it in the morning or not-usually it takes me until the second day before the muscles start screaming, LOL...
Can say that it really does seem that the HSS blade is a lot easier to use than my old file scraper that I had first fooled around with-especially on steel.
Need to get a bigger plate at some point, so I can finish the 18" camelback casting that I got from Martin Model & Pattern 3 years ago... Using a 9x12 toolmaker's flat ATM.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 09, 2022, 11:17:02 AM
Reexamining the pic's this morning; think I'm going awry... The high spots really ought to be larger blotches; think it might be because of my excessively long strokes digging holes-with the high spots as small as they are now; I'm not going to be able to cut them in half like described in all the literature I've read on the subject...
Will have to pay really good attention to that next go-round...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on April 09, 2022, 02:37:35 PM
I’m no help. I understand the process but have never attempted it. Learning more as you document your progress though.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 11, 2022, 11:27:05 PM
Got back at it tonight; made a few mistakes that I learned from-will explain in a bit...
Eleventh spotting-notice the smearing?
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8512)
Had cleaned the plate; and laid down fresh blue-left it too thick; and the second issue which shall be explained in the next pic(s) will tell the rest...
Thirteenth spotting:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8513)
16th spotting:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8514)
Hmmm... Why is the bearing so sparse? I know the excess blue made the spots bigger; but now there just seems to be so few high spots...
I finally figured it out-there were. I hadn't quite knocked the burrs down all the way-so the plate wasn't sitting on the blue; which I believe was also part of the streaking-the burrs were scraping the blue up; and making it streak...
20th spotting-as you can see the bearing filled back out once the burrs weren't there  ::) :P
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8515)
22nd spotting:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8516)
24th spotting-almost have the bearing filled out to the edge now:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8517)
Starting to get a sharp reflection off of the surface:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8518)
About 3.5 hours in it now; figure I should be able to get that side finished next go-round...  :D
One other thing that I noticed; was that if I'm not watching myself; I keep leaving a deep tool mark at the end of my strokes-the surface is becoming littered with them; and they're too deep to come out from the finish scraping  :P
Well-that's how you learn-so not too upset-besides they might make good oil grooves, LOL...
Jesse


Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on April 12, 2022, 08:32:34 AM
Interesting read.

Anxious to see how the squaring with other side goes.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 12, 2022, 01:38:19 PM
Interesting read.

Anxious to see how the squaring with other side goes.

Dave
That will be interesting; I hinged the plate before deciding which side to start on-as could be expected, the bar was bowed-one side concave; the other convex... I started with the convex side; so the other should be concave-just how parallel the average plane is to the scraped side I do not yet know...
Next foreseeable lesson-step scraping...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 12, 2022, 11:57:46 PM
Starting to feel this in my shoulders, LOL...
Anyhoo; got some more work done tonight-think I might just call this face good. Learned some more things through trial and error; didn't get as many pics; and ended up losing track of my total cycles-I've been labelling my pics with the cycle number; but I'm not sure of these-and quit labelling them at a certain point-so there were more cycles than seen here.
Got a pic of the brayer I made-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8519)
And got my blue a bit too thick at first-the carriage bar suction cupped to the plate  ::)
Although you can see the bearing is nicely distributed; despite it being overblown due to the thickness of the blue:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8520)
A couple cycles later; and the blue thinned out-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8521)
Now the bearing might look very poor to the left-hand side in this pic; the real issue was that my blue was not even-in person you could see very faint, but evenly distributed bearing on the left side too...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8522)
Cleaned the bar off; redid my blue; and spotted it again-notice just how much different the print reads:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8523)
At this point; even the same rough thickness of blue that was working before was getting suction-cuppy; and it is supposed to be spread thinner during the finishing process-so I began to thin it out-need to get better lighting out there; as things were getting hard to see-I doctored the photos to make the print more readable-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8524)
And if that wasn't hard enough to see; try this(!)-the darkest spots are actually lower; as the high spots are flat enough to get burnished off when I hinge the part:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8525)
Same cycle; another print-with slightly heavier blue:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8526)
Next spotting:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8527)
And I think I might be done-the part is hinging flat (when pushed side-to-side on one end; it should swivel about 1/3rd of the way in from the other end-it is described better in scraping literature). The high spots are relatively even in size; and nicely distributed-one very small patch near the front left apron bolt hole (top right in this pic) that is barren-but I might let it slide...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8528)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8529)
From a count in the full square inch blocks, and guestimates from the others; I'm averaging 19 PPI-which is a step or two past the recommended 16 PPI for general production machinery.
Definitely not perfect; and pretty darned slow-but I'm getting there; and learning-figure I might go crazy on the next side and try for some ludicrously high PPI just for the heck of it  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 18, 2022, 10:28:16 PM
Well; I was going to start scraping the other side today but...
With it being around 30° F outside; I got to see thermal distortion in a big, big way-got done cleaning the plate off; and then cleaned the part that I've been working on-laid it on the plate; and hinged it-kept hinging it over the next 5-8 minutes and watching what happened-amazing how much it moved! One minute; it's high in the center-I'd pick it up; and it'd be high at the ends-all over the place! It took almost ten minutes to fully acclimate back to ambient temp after my holding it... Also had issues with condensation coming off my hands onto the part-so I did a quick go-over with an indicator and called it quits. It looks pretty good; so far; of course until I begin to get a flat surface; I won't know for sure-but it's almost dead nuts parallel  :o  ;D
Low in the middle; knew that by the hinge test-but overall the average plane is within a half thou or better-I must have scraped pretty much straight down on the other side  :D
Or got lucky-which is more likely.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 23, 2022, 12:04:12 AM
Didn't get too far; but got some more work in tonight-started by scaling off maybe 30-35% of the surface...
Second spotting-note that my blue is not thick enough at this point-should be much clearer with brighter spots IMO-hinging on two opposing corners:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8547)
Third spotting-haven't touched up the blue yet-still hinging on two opposing corners:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8548)
Aannnnd my cell threw a fit; and started taking photos a split second late-got blurry pics of the workbench as I was setting the phone down  ::) :P
Had added a touch more blue; and did about 5-6 more cycles-you can see the final spotting in the next pics; but it started filling in in the middle; started hinging flat on one side; and one corner, then started hinging flat....
Since I now have a flat-ish surface, with high spots on all four corners; I broke out the indicator (not my tenths unit yet; this is preliminary)-
First corner:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8549)
Second corner:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8550)
Third corner-note that the needle is off just a hair (maybe a quarter thou, tops-probably around two tenths)-when I moved onto another spot further to the center of the part; it measured exactly the same as the others-though there is a discrepancy there:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8551)
Fourth corner:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8552)
So far; so good-will wait until I have the bearing filled out a bit better before I bring out the big guns-if I do...
I say 'if', because I found something out that may make the tenths indicator (Starrett Last Word) somewhat overkill...
So; you know about the function of the 'hinge' test-if you don't; you'd better look it up-with the parts laying flat; you gently push/pull one end to see where the part pivots-should be a third in from each end; centered in the middle...
Hmmmm...  ???
Should have expected this with a cheap import plate-but it isn't flat....
Not perfectly-but close... Put the bar finished side down toward the right hand side closest to me(where I have been checking)-hinges as flat.. Rotate it 90°, still flat...
Move it to the front center area of the plate-hum.... Hinges flat (but getting to where the pivots are slightly further in than 1/3... Turn it 90°-and all of the sudden it hinges in the center  :o
Move it to the far left side of the plate-all good...
Cleaned the heck out of everything-repeated the test-same thing... ???
Unless there is something really stuck on that plate (will carefully scrape it with a DE razor blade to be sure); there is a minute high point somewhere in the center front area of the granite plate   :-\
Still plenty good enough for me; so long as I know what I'm dealing with I'm OK-amazing to be able to tell such a thing though  :D
Almost forgot-touched up my scraper before starting-didn't realize how dull it had gotten-made quite a difference! Still need to get better control over my strokes, though...
Also intend to get some pics of how I blue the plate; for folks that would like to see how.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 23, 2022, 10:49:53 PM
And the phone ate more pics today-not sure what the heck is going on with the piece of junk...
Did scrape/clean something off the plate; the part is now hinging correctly in all areas, as it should-guess I should have known  ::)
Anyways-here's the pics I do have-probably put another 8 cycles in:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8554)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8555)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8556)
The bearing is pretty much out to the edges of the part now; think I might be able to start finishing it out...
Checked it for parallelism again:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8557)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8558)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8559)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8560)
Time for the tenths indicator  :D
Almost one part down!
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 26, 2022, 11:31:31 PM
Didn't do any scraping, as I didn't have much time-so did some checking on the bed...  :P
I had hoped it would be convex; so I could start scraping the middle and work my way towards the ends-my plate is half the length of the bed; so I figured it might make it easier than having to work from one end to another... Nope-it's concave...  :P  What's worse, it's got a twist to it...  :-[
I debated leaving it be; letting the cold roll tolerance be good enough-but when I oiled it and tried running the carriage plate across it-I could feel it grabbing on the high spots on the bed-just way too uneven-guess I've got some filing to do to get the twist out so I can figure out whether or not to try and backbend the bed; or just file that out too...
Worst part will be trying to get the little ½" bearing strips on the bottom edge flat and parallel with the top-but I don't see that I have a choice; with it sliding as poorly as it was...  :P
Oh-I do have a work pal now-there was a toad perched on some jugs under the workbench watching me...  :D
I fed him a worm to encourage him to stick around and eat the bugs-didn't get a signature; but think he agreed...  ;)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on April 27, 2022, 12:11:32 AM
Now you’ll have to be careful and not step on your new buddy!

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 27, 2022, 11:22:54 PM
Didn't get much visible work done tonight; as I spent some more time looking the bed over; and doing some work on it... Doesn't look like scraping/filing it in will be impossible-extremely difficult; and slow-but possible... Going to try and flatten it out some; for sure-will probably take it on next.
Anyhow; the resident toad says hi:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8561)
And got a series of me applying blue to the plate; first clean it off and check it by wiping with your hand-you'll feel any junk on there. Then, dab some dots on-this will simply take getting a feel for what you need-in this case I wanted a strip about 5x11"-
(Incidentally; you need to hit the plate with the brayer each cycle to smooth the blue-you can see where I took the print in some of the following pics)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8562)
Start rolling longways-straight strokes:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8563)
The key to getting the blue evenly distributed is scrubbing the brayer side-to-side as you make alternating cross and long strokes:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8564)
Keep alternating your strokes and scrubbing the brayer; and you'll see things even out and get smooth-looking:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8565)
If the overlap of the stroke leaves a ridge; your blue is way yonder too thick-it should be feather-edged as you can see in the above pic...
Got three/four more cycles in on the carriage plate; just need to check parallelism and give it two/three more cycles to get a few holes filled in:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8566)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8567)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8568)
Figure if I do the bed next; then I'll be able to start assembling as I go-besides; some of the other carriage parts will be scraped in to match it...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 28, 2022, 11:29:32 PM
*Double Facepalm*  :-[
Have NO idea how/when I managed to pull it off-but I've been doing things wrong this whole time-and it never hit me until now...  :-\
You're supposed to spot the part; scrape in one direction; clean/deburr; spot again; and scrape again at 90° to the previous scrape marks...
Welllllllll.... Somehow I got started scraping in both directions every cycle...   ??? ::)
No idea how I pulled that one off-but hey! So far it's worked   :P
Wonder how well it will go doing it the right way...  :o
Anyhow; got the tenths indicator and a more rigid stand out-somehow managed to eat a pic somewhere along the line; but I'm tired and don't care:
Zeroed in the upper left corner:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8570)
Have a half thou or so tilt side-to-side:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8571)
And a tenth or two of list end-to-end:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8572)
Pic of the last corner missing-it was up by one tenth...
Realized that I needed to tap the indicator base to settle it after moving it-upon re-indicating all four corners; I found it was one tenth end-to-end and 6 tenths side-to-side... So, started scraping-as I was doing both directions at the same time; what I did was do one direction halfway or so into the part; and the other only a quarter-more or less; to 'step' the depth I was cutting... I also started skipping every other high spot or so; getting further in-seemed to work; was changing the list/tilt by almost a tenth every cycle-though the end-to-end kept coming and going on me...
The bearing never really changed visibly during the spotting, and my stepping must have been working as it hinged flat the whole way through...
The bearing before I called it quits:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8573)
And another sweep with the indicator:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8574)
No more end-to-end list  :D
(Well; I can see the needle laying heavy towards one side of the division-but I'm not splitting tenths yet; unless it's a visible half or so)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8575)
And a stable .00025" tilt side-to-side (more or less):
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8576)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8577)
Guessing three/four more cycles will do it; depending on whether or not I double them up  ::) ::)
Also checked the depth of my scrapes while I was at it-looks like they are averaging two tenths-will have to go back and check my resources and see if that's good or bad... Think they are a hair on the shallow side; but that's somewhat dependent on the size and shape of the part; as well as loading and whether or not it is enclosed...
Still can't understand how I managed to get started doing two sets of scrapes at once!!
Ugh...  ::) :P
Jesse


Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on April 29, 2022, 06:40:03 PM
next project should be a surface grinder, so you never have to scrape again  :D
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on April 29, 2022, 07:00:12 PM
next project should be a surface grinder, so you never have to scrape again  :D
LOL-you know I have thought about that!  ;D
The lathe will probably be my last machine tool project for some time-I've got stuff I want to make; dangit!  :D
Though steel is set aside for either a small hand shaper; or a small mill/drill.... Might be able to squeeze both out of it; with the help of some concrete...
Have a 1.5" hard chrome rod about 24" long that could make the basis of a sweet drill press/mini mill if I do it right...  8)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on April 30, 2022, 10:04:50 AM
could be done for sure.. I did some further experiements with concrete since my cnc build.. And what i found wasnt shocking.. the concrete needs to be deep for a base.. trying to do it 1-3 inches deep , it never holds up , always cracks or has a wobble .,.The column post on the orange cnc is about 8-9 inches deep , no problems to this day , ans super rigid..SO starting with a bucket of sorts makes sense
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 05, 2022, 08:53:10 PM
To heck with it-I'm calling that part good... At the rate that I have time to work on this; it won't be perfectly finished until I am 70-I'm done... Get things to a workable level; and I'm calling them good-going to back-bow and draw-file the bed in as close as I can without scraping; and only do the bare minimum of scraping on the rest of the lathe-I can always dig back in and make things better-but I've got things to turn NOW!!  >:(
It didn't run all that bad the way it was; and I know there were a few spots that needed a bit of work-smooth them out; and it will be as good or better than the clapped-out Clausing that I used to run at work before they got the new lathe...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on May 05, 2022, 09:09:44 PM
Sounds like you have it close enough to ‘take a break’ from the tedious stuff and use it for a bit. It’s gotta be better than most mini lathes already.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 05, 2022, 09:20:04 PM
Sounds like you have it close enough to ‘take a break’ from the tedious stuff and use it for a bit. It’s gotta be better than most mini lathes already.

Dave
Exactly what I was thinking-after all; it will never be a toolroom lathe-I do not need to finish it to toolroom tolerances...
I tend to try and make things 'perfect' to a fault-but I can never get anything done that way; and always have to relinquish and say it's "good 'nuff"-trouble is I tend to go too long before caving in to that  :P
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 05, 2022, 11:17:43 PM
Got my blue-smeared disaster area cleaned up-nice to have a workbench again, LOL...
Backbow and file the bed in next; fished a can of black paint out to hit it with once it's ready... Then things can start being assembled as I get them touched up.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 07, 2022, 10:55:43 PM
Gently straightened out the bed with some arm's-length; full-swing taps from a 3# drilling hammer (LOL)...  ;D
Didn't want to wait for paint to dry; so hit all the bare steel with cold blue so it looks a bit more presentable; plus the blue seems to 'hold' oil a bit better for rust prevention; draw-filed the top to smooth things out some... Chucked up a piece of 5/8" shafting from an old wringer washer to use to align the bed-marked two rings on it-.003" of runout at the chuck; .019" 6" out (yuck)... Will want to do some tweaking and see if I can figure that one out later, pretty sure the shaft is straight-know that I've got some chips in the scroll to clean out; can feel them in there-might be some crud in the ways of one of the jaws; don't know for sure yet...
Got the headstock filed in on 'x' to within a thousandth over 6" (looked like I had it within a half thou; but not too confident in the setup); and need to cut a shim for the "y"; as it's out about .010" over 6"; and it's more than I care to file ATM...
Also touched up several pieces of the carriage with a file; and cold blued them-once I get the headstock shimmed; the cross slide and fixed dovetail clamp filed in-it will go PDQ... Really only the tailstock to finish after that; minus the headstock pulley and handwheels-also the control box...
Jesse
Hmmm... Just noticed that I started this thread 1 year ago come 11 days from now-if I hurry; I'll have it all together by then  ;)
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 08, 2022, 11:43:22 PM
Got some things together today-remounted the chuck; must have been something in somewhere it didn't belong-the bar read less than .0005" TIR at the chuck; and only .005" 7" out  8)
Still need to check runout across a range of sizes-but dang! Looks like I have won the 3-jaw lottery!  :D
Got the headstock within .001" over 7" in X; and have .0025" of droop 7" out in Y-figure parts will tend to climb the tool; and anything that far out will either be supported in a steady; or with a center-you could move it around with finger pressure easy enough at that distance-so happy with that... Got the fixed dovetail way bar filed in; and blued-so I was able to assemble the carriage and put it on the lathe  :D-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8600)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8601)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8602)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8603)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8604)
The cross slide is bowed; so I need to straighten it out and do some filing-I could tell it had an ever so slight taper to it before; get that taken care of and blue the top of it, put that together and I'll be ready to make some chips on a drive sheave  ;D Can't wait to see how much rigidity the new headstock added...
Then finish the tailstock, control box, and handwheels/bushings/division rings; and I'll be ready to start filling cans with chips  8)
Oh-incidentally (will get pics next time I adjust spindle preload); if you find yourself in need of a spanner wrench; a trick: find two hex keys that fit the notches on the nut reasonably well-doesn't have to be perfect; just so that they aren't too small-you want them sitting proud of the nut on opposite notches-now you can use that big monkey wrench-no scars; no scuffs; and it grips about as good as the real thing. Obviously; you can only do one nut at a time this way-but it works well enough that you can squeeze by with some care.
Jesse

Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on May 09, 2022, 08:07:22 AM
 8)

Looking good and getting exciting.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 09, 2022, 11:41:57 PM
Got the cross slide flattened and filed in a bit better; and blued-haven't got it put together yet, though...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 10, 2022, 10:48:41 PM
Got the cross slide on today; found it needed a bit more filing to get it to run smooth-no perceptible play with the gib perhaps a bit overly snug. Still need to turn a bushing and division ring for the handwheel; and drill and tap the bearing bracket for a pointer.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8607)
And made a test facing cut on a 1.5"-ish diameter piece of scrap to determine if the cross slide is set correctly-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8608)
Pic doesn't do it justice-as smooth a finish as I've ever turned-slick to the touch; and no burring-plus ever so slightly concave as it should be  8)
Currently driving it with the hand drill; using an expansion plug made from some rubber spacers and washers/nut/bolt... Next step turning the drive sheave...  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 12, 2022, 11:03:16 PM
Put the motor on to get some perspective on things; and realized something-the spindle stud gear in my stack of spacers to preload the spindle just happens to be in the right spot; that the belt goes around it...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8610)
And what do you know-with just the weight of the motor providing tension; it actually works  :D
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8609)
This will make turning the drive sheave a lot easier; no monkeying around with the hand drill anymore.... ;)
Also noticed that I will need to put a full chip shield over the motor; as the air intake is perfectly situated to pull in chips; that ought to be easy enough to do...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 13, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Got started on the spindle sheave today-drilled and tapped (4) 1/4-20 holes for studs to mount the 3" blank directly to the spindle flange; faced a spacer to use in between the two parts so that I can bore all the way through to 28 mm; and cleaned up the face and OD:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8611)
Ordinarily there would be a spacer between the outboard spindle bearing and the next part on the spindle; I don't have suitable material to make a bushing out of so turned a .35" wide step into the sheave so it can both bear directly on the bearing; and also fit the plastic shield to help keep junk out of the bearings-took over an inch off the OD-made one heck of a mess!!!  :o Think a chip hopper will have to be added to my get-it list.... 
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8612)
Next step; finish the OD-one more pass to obtain 100% cleanup; and then turn the grooves... Then get the tailstock together so that I can drill a starter hole for the bore-that will be a tedious job...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 16, 2022, 12:28:12 AM
Got the sheave grooved today; not entirely pleased with the outcome; as I had to run the RPM too high to overcome the lack of torque transfer; so my HSS tool suffered; and I had chatter-due to the chatter; the bit kept moving in the toolpost-my grooves are not perfectly spaced; but the belt seems to fit nicely enough; so it will have to do...  :P
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8613)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on May 16, 2022, 07:59:02 AM
I bet it works just fine.

Looking good  8)

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 16, 2022, 11:50:14 PM
Thanks Dave-soon will know; got it bored and the opposing side faced today-
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8614)
Can say that having to turn this sheave before declaring the lathe usable has been a perfect learning experience-so far I have realized that my initial plans for chip shielding around the motor would have been woefully inadequate; which is a good thing as I've not yet started on that... Also set one priority project-tool grinder!! Been using a Dremel; and bench stone-as the forum puts it-"not worthy" indeed!! Have an AO cup wheel ready to go; ironically need to be able to turn the spindle for it though  ::)
So that will have to happen soon...
Otherwise; want to cold blue the sheave; and recheck my existing spacers to see if I can set the spindle up the way I want it (otherwise I need to modify or make spacers); then I'm going to strip the lathe completely down again and give it a thorough cleaning-some of my oil covers didn't have the retention I was hoping for; and they kept getting displaced, so filled up with chips-also managed to bend one wiper shield up off of the bed in one corner...
Might also turn the necessary parts for the motor fan before taking it down; as then I can completely assemble the drivetrain afterwards...
And still need to finish the tailstock; plus all the friction dials and handwheels-then there's plugs for the series of 1/4-20 mounting holes in the cross slide; a QCTP;  carriage/cross slide lock levers; lock lever/screw for the half nut; rapid feed wormwheel and housing for the carriage; etc...
Threading gear train is whole 'nuther set of to-do's...
Glad I stopped on the scraping-the sheave has proven that the lathe is plenty capable as-is; and the finishing touches alone are enough to keep me busy for awhile!
Need to start shopping for barstock for afterwards...  ;D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 18, 2022, 12:31:22 AM
Whew-was sweating over the size of the bore on the sheave; as I really did not want it sloppy-so bored it as close to dead-on as I could-but having not miked the spindle itself; I was worried about the fit being too tight...  :-[
It wasn't  :D-a perfect medium press fit; had to cinch the sheave into place with a spindle nut; between the fit and the preload on the bearing it isn't going to slip anytime soon...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8615)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8616)
Haven't tried another test cut; but am pretty sure that the torque will be downright awesome!
Guessing the lowest speed I can get the motor to run leaves me with about 70 RPM at the spindle-and the top should be about 2800 RPM-pretty danged happy with that  8)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on May 18, 2022, 08:56:19 AM
They are torquey little motors, it should serve you well.

Looking good 👍

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 26, 2022, 03:16:08 PM
Almost done with the control box-cut vents into it; covered them with stainless steel mesh; and painted it. Added a micro switch to cut off the signal to the control board from the signal generator; much easier/faster than clicking and rotating the knob-only use it to adjust speed now. Also added a reversing switch; so have full use of all possible functions. Got the motor fan on; used an aluminum rotor from a vacuum cleaner; and tweaked my motor mount-drilled and tapped the sheave for a grub screw so that I can run it in reverse-will have to add some provision for belt tensioning though; as it self-tensions running normally right now; so it wants to jump out of tension running in reverse... Wanted to modify the motor mount anyway; as it is such a nice unit that I'd like to make it quick-change to various uses/machines-so I'll add provision for belt tensioning when I modify it again. Make the lid for the control box; mount for the control box; and the drive system will be completely finished; short of sheathing the motor wiring from the box to the motor.
At some point; I'm going to get letter/number stamps, when I do I'll add 'ON/OFF' and such notes on the front panel-will add a pic later as it won't go through right now  ::)
Otherwise, soooo close! Already ordered/received a 4-jaw from LMS in preparation for AG parts...  ;D
Chip shielding; division rings; tailstock, threading gear setup and I'm done!  8)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 26, 2022, 11:58:14 PM
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8617)
Did get it mounted; just need to tweak a few things to get the wiring run through the mount like I think will work...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 27, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
Got a chip shield for the motor fabricated; and added a means of tensioning the belt-haven't upgraded the motor mount yet; no big hurry on that.
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on May 27, 2022, 10:00:47 PM
You’ve been busy. Definitely getting close to being easily useable.

Looks good!

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 27, 2022, 10:55:39 PM
Thanks Dave; it's sooo close now... :D Getting ready to order the change gears and stuff.
Always seem to end up with a pile of parts or material on the counter so I can walk by and eyeball them, and think about how to pull it all together...   ::)
Keep a notepad and pencil on the nightstand so when I wake up with an idea I can write it down/draw it up nd get back to sleep, LOL...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 28, 2022, 11:29:46 PM
Finished the control box; and got the motor wiring ran through the mount tube-tight; but it fit... Just need to put a grounding jumper wire between the motor and the bed.
(http://)Annnd image missing due to upload issues caused by a lack of internet speed caused by those blessed (!) Memorial Day weekend campers posting selfies of themselves flying down towards Mohican State Park...  >:(
Grrrr...  :-X
Also cleaned out/up the carriage; and made plugs for the tapped holes in the cross slide; so they don't fill up with chips again-easy enough to do with a hot glue gun; just make sure the hole is well oiled and squirt some in-screw it out; and cut to a reasonable length-there you go...
I'd imagine that a quick pinch of the top of the blob would make for a thumb screw of sorts; but didn't try it.
Tailstock next...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on May 29, 2022, 12:54:01 AM
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8618)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on June 06, 2022, 11:44:07 PM
Got started on the cover/case today-you know you got lucky when almost every board needed no cutting...  :o  ???  :D
Need to get some more aluminum flashing to make a chip pan and line the cover; as oily splatter don't clean off of wood... Ordered some camphor blocks to put in with it; supposed to be an old-time way of keeping rust out of the toolbox/gun cabinet etc... Smells pretty good too; like Vicks, but without the menthol, LOL...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on June 11, 2022, 01:12:41 AM
Cover/case done, lined it with sheet aluminum-so far; no discernable rust on a freshly-turned piece left in the chuck after 2 days; so hopefully the camphor is working...
Rigged up a temporary work light; and made up a quick chip tray-now I can get back to finishing up the lathe itself; without having to worry about rust...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8619)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on June 11, 2022, 08:12:15 AM
I like where the controller ended up in relation to the machine. My factory control box got removed from mine and mounted on the wall behind.

Cover looks nice too.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on June 11, 2022, 07:48:52 PM
Thanks Dave; I really like it myself-so easy to reach up and flick the spindle off/on when taking finishing cuts and miking in-between passes...
Tailstock aligned; not finished-but completely useable. Received my number stamp set; so can get the handwheels and division rings finished now...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: Rob M on June 12, 2022, 06:20:21 PM
looks really good.. any plans for a power feed ? looks like  the lead screw is long enough
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on June 12, 2022, 09:43:29 PM
looks really good.. any plans for a power feed ? looks like  the lead screw is long enough
Yup  :)
Have an assortment of gears; and the motor/speed control from a old cordless drill-only hitch could be the power supply-but pretty sure I'm OK with what I have...
Not figuring on messing with it for awhile, though-as I've got projects piling up all over the place waiting for lathe time!!  :o
Waterproof nylon cases for my spare 18650's; pill vials for my FAK's; airgun stuff etc...
And the first official production part from it was a plastic bushing to fix a can opener; go figure LOL...  ::)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on June 13, 2022, 07:59:30 AM
It’ll get a workout for sure. I have a Bridgeport, mini mill, 12x60 Clausing, and a micro lathe that combined do not get used as much as my mini lathe.

The only stationary tool I have that comes close is my homemade metal bandsaw. It gets used a lot.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on June 15, 2022, 11:14:37 PM
Happy to report that other than the expected fingerprint rust (I have 'rusty fingers', and neglected to wipe down touched surfaces with a oily rag...) the camphor is working great-last two days have been ridiculously humid, and HOT-no rust except where I touched  ;D
Haven't gotten any further yet; something about being without power for two days...  ::)
Which bumped another project to the top of the list-hand pump for the well!! Having enough drinking water is one thing; but having enough clean water to freely wash and clean up things is quite another...  :P
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on September 29, 2022, 12:55:36 AM
Back in the shop again  :D
Have turned a few small things, and came to the conclusion that a better toolpost is going to make a real difference in usability of the lathe-settled on a 'Norman Patent'-style version; post is a piston pin from a Briggs lawn mower engine; base is 5/8"x1" stainless-getting good use from my four jaw chuck...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8684)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8685)
The holders will be made from 1/2"x1 1/4" CRS, with two 10-32 clamp screws for the tool bit, and a 1/4-20 clamp bolt-should be appropriate for the cuts I'll tend to be making... 8-32 screw for height setting.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8686)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8687)
Base still needs the periphery finished, but getting there...  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on September 30, 2022, 11:49:47 PM
Short of cutting the button-head screws down, the toolpost is finished-on to tool holders, and tools...  :)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8688)
The pin is .8" in diameter; and is 1.5" tall above the base block, with the centerline of the spindle 7/8" above the block...
Jesse

Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on October 01, 2022, 12:41:56 AM
That’s looking really good. Appears like it will give you plenty of adjustment range with that style of post.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 01, 2022, 01:03:09 AM
That’s looking really good. Appears like it will give you plenty of adjustment range with that style of post.

Dave
Thanks Dave!
Yup-if the toolholders I'm envisioning work out, I should have about 3/8" of drop from centerline with my 5/16 HSS bits, and 5/8" above-which should leave enough room for thicker holders for cut-off tools and boring bars...

Getting a better idea of what the machine is capable of too; can say that it don't like stainless, LOL... Started the bore for the pin with a 3/16" drill, then with a 1/2"-kept stalling it  ;D
Smoked up the shed pretty good with the moly-based Tap Magic cutting oil-reminded me of why I had them put in a ventilation unit on the mill where I used to work-phew!-cough-hack-sputter!  :P
Getting a better idea of what I can pull off in the 4-jaw; for small stuff it's dang near more convenient than if I had a mill...  :D
Jesse

Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on October 01, 2022, 08:01:54 AM
For a 1/2” to stall that motor indicates gearing may be too high or something. I’ve drilled 1” holes with same motor on my mill and drill press without stalling but I may be lower geared.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 01, 2022, 12:30:35 PM
For a 1/2” to stall that motor indicates gearing may be too high or something. I’ve drilled 1” holes with same motor on my mill and drill press without stalling but I may be lower geared.

Dave
It's definitely possible; IIRC I set this up with about a 2.5/3:1 reduction, so I would have a top speed around 3K RPM, which so far I've yet to need even going up halfway.... Also was running it real slow-min/max running range on the signal generator is 13-91%, I had it at 20%.... No idea of the motor/spindle RPM's, other than it looked 'about right'...
Might eventually machine another spindle sheave, think I can increase the reduction to perhaps 4-5:1, which would still leave me with plenty of top-end RPM's...
I could go even further if I went to a timing belt, as then I could shrink the motor sheave too-perhaps another upgrade project for the future  :D
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 01, 2022, 11:23:53 PM
Nothing huge; got five toolholder blanks sawn up; and trued up two in the lathe...
Jesse


Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 05, 2022, 11:42:54 PM
Got some more work done on the first toolholder; actually took a few light facing cuts with it as-is; will work just fine...
However-I managed to snap my only 8-32 tap while threading the height-adjuster screw hole, oh how I hate carbon steel plug taps  :P
Will be ordering a couple spiral-point HSS replacements, and also a bit of a looser tap drill; as with 1/2" of engagement I don't need 75% or better thread, that's for sure...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8701)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8702)
While I might have to wait until I can get new taps, I can still do all the other ops on the remaining four blanks; now that I know it will work every bit as well as I hoped...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: KWK on October 06, 2022, 10:13:39 AM
Got some more work done on the first toolholder; actually took a few light facing cuts with it as-is; will work just fine...
However-I managed to snap my only 8-32 tap while threading the height-adjuster screw hole, oh how I hate carbon steel plug taps  :P
Will be ordering a couple spiral-point HSS replacements, and also a bit of a looser tap drill; as with 1/2" of engagement I don't need 75% or better thread, that's for sure...

While I might have to wait until I can get new taps, I can still do all the other ops on the remaining four blanks; now that I know it will work every bit as well as I hoped...
Jesse
Hold off on the larger hole. Those gun taps cut much easier.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on October 06, 2022, 10:19:28 AM
No doubt, once I started using GOOD taps I found myself checking to make sure I drilled the correct size hole, lol. The good taps just cut that much better.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 06, 2022, 11:46:01 PM

Hold off on the larger hole. Those gun taps cut much easier.
I plan on getting a small range of drills for all my common taps, and unless it seems that I got an overtempered batch (extra brittle, have had it happen before), I'll stick with the recommended size.

At my old job, I even used gun taps for blind holes, or at least getting the bulk of the threads in-was still easier having to keep pulling out, and blowing the hole clear of chips compared to the back-and-forth with a plug tap-and I personally feel they make better threads, without all the start-and-stopping/backing up to break the chip...  :P
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 14, 2022, 11:35:01 PM
Got the remaining three sawn blanks trued up, and all the layout work done-flipped the height setting screw to the front of all of them, to match the one that I broke the tap in ::)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 21, 2022, 11:08:32 PM
All holes drilled/tapped, all blanks bored-managed to bore one oversize though, got distracted switching tracks on my cell-not much more enjoyable than shop time with some good music running...  ::) ;)
Milled the first toolholder for the bit, getting close now...  :D
Mill the rest, cut the backs for clearance; deburr/chamfer, clean and cold-blue, then make the clamps...
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: subscriber on October 30, 2022, 02:08:05 AM
Impressive project, and tenacity, Jesse.
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on October 30, 2022, 02:50:55 AM
Impressive project, and tenacity, Jesse.
Thanks Peter, things are going slower than I had ever anticipated; soo much stuff going on around here...  :P
The toolholder blocks are just awaiting cold blue, did encounter one issue I didn't expect-my 'Z' feed handwheel is currently not balanced-you can imagine from here what happened under the vibration of the cut-yup, increased past where I wanted it....  ::)
Still serviceable, but I learned I need to finish the carriage lock!...
Milled the step for the bit right on the toolpost:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8714)
Milled, deburred, and ready for final 'polish' and cold blue:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8715)
Started working on another shop project today, but had some electrical issues that 'short-circuited' that idea (breaker getting old, buzzing whenever I used my little stick welder, or my 4 1/2" angle grinder-the dryer breaker started doing the same thing a few months back, replaced it and no buzz)....
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on October 30, 2022, 10:55:06 AM
Keep chugging along, your making progress and that’s what matters!

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on November 07, 2022, 10:25:55 PM
Keep chugging along, your making progress and that’s what matters!

Dave
Yup   :)
One more chug done tonight, got the toolholders blued, also got the tool clamp screws cut to length-need to get some more pan-head 1/4-20 SHCS for post clamping, washers too-recently got acquainted with the local hardware store-an honest-to-goodness real one-they've got all that stuff in-stock, in standard, metric, and stainless to boot!  ;D
They've even got jugs of cutting oil  ;D
And-get this--a bin full of fractional-sizes of decent-quality HSS split-point drills...  :D :D :D
Had to have looked like a kid in a candy store roaming around checking the place out-and it's only 6-ish miles away!  8)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on November 08, 2022, 07:19:39 AM
I’ve got a legit one like that about an hour away. Can barely get down the isles it’s stuffed so full.

And they keep 3’ length music wire in stock.

Glad you found that place.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on November 10, 2022, 11:37:42 PM
Got the toolholders done, pics won't load though...  ::)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on November 11, 2022, 11:13:26 AM
Pics  :)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8723)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8724)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8725)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on November 11, 2022, 03:56:15 PM
Those turned out great. And I see you’ve made a few chips as well.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on November 11, 2022, 05:34:35 PM
Those turned out great. And I see you’ve made a few chips as well.

Dave
Thanks Dave, actually most of those chips are from making the toolholders themselves-all the machining was done right on the lathe; with the exception of drilling and tapping the holes...  :D
Working on holders for cutoff/grooving tools and boring bars next, then a few misc. things like the carriage lock, and it's off to the races...  ;D
Though I need to grind some tooling to go in my new toolholders first...   ;)
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on December 21, 2022, 11:50:44 PM
For a 1/2” to stall that motor indicates gearing may be too high or something. I’ve drilled 1” holes with same motor on my mill and drill press without stalling but I may be lower geared.

Dave
I *think* I might have figured out what was wrong, with the stalling-can't remember how cold it was when it was stalling, seems to me in the 30°-40° F range; but fooling around with it over the last few weeks, I was surprised to turn it on and... Nothing, couldn't even turn over...  :o ...
Would sit and make a humming noise like it was trying, then as everything warmed up it would start doing half-rotations, so it almost looks like it's cold-related; but then I remembered what you told me to do initially with it Dave-fool around with the output frequency on the PWM controller-I had had it set at 19 Hz (If I used the correct unit  ::)); so one of those days that it was acting so weird I tried flicking it up to 20 Hz-bingo! Instantly; it was not only turning over, but running normally  ;D

Anyhow; things have been helter-skelter here as usual, but was able to do a little renovating of the chip shield-pretty mangled; but it works-noticed that the fountain of chips from milling the toolholders was going everywhere; plus the shield was getting in the way of the cross slide when going all the way in towards both the stock and the chuck...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8746)
Much better now in that department; haven't really gotten anything else done-but pretty much have the carriage lock and half-nut lever figured out; just need to do the work-which might be awhile with the winter storm that's coming...  :P
Jesse
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: sb327 on December 22, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
My time in the shop has been a little limited lately but the cold will probably change that some. I have a little heater in my conex box.

Glad you figured out the issue. You got the hz correct. I’ve not tried it but some say it works at multiples of 20 as well.

Dave
Title: Re: JuryRigger's Lathe Build Log
Post by: JuryRigger on December 22, 2022, 09:59:25 PM
Looks like my shop time is going to be cut even shorter-finally got a call back, looks like I'll be back to work first of the year...
However, it's a fab shop; and I used to work the toolroom-so will likely still have priviledged access to the lathe and Bridgeport if they're not set up for anything...  ;D
Going to try and squeeze in some projects on breaks/lunches; hoping to build a few other additions to the shop  ;)
Jesse