GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: JoninMA on May 02, 2021, 11:28:09 AM
-
Springers and Daisies would have to be disqualified because of their simplicity. I purchased another Benjamin 250 from an antique store last week, lubed it up, popped in an 8 gram cartridge and it holds perfectly. Seems like the old Benji gas guns are extremely well built. I have 2 250's, a 3030, and a 352. They all hold gas perfectly and don't seem to ever have been opened up.
I've had luck with Crosman 120's for pumpers. Have owned 3 and they all shot once flushed and lubed, albeit not like they should. I kept 1 and had it gone through. The difference was night and day once resealed. Early 760's seem to hold up extremely well, even after having been ridden hard and put away wet. I think the difference is they are so easy to reseal that their ruggedness gets overlooked.
-
The Crosman 1400 is a stone hammer compared to a Benji or a Dan. Not as finely finished or as powerful perhaps, but just as accurate and built like a tank. A model 1400 in good condition doesn’t command the price of a vintage Blue Streak or even a new Benjamin 392, but the guns have always had a following. I think this is because the gun is so simple, easy to maintain, and just plain tough. Because of Crosman’s unitary design there are a lot of parts still available for it because they were or are still used in other Crosman guns. The self cocking valve isn’t dependent on hammer spring weight to operate so the valve cannot be over pumped but over pumping will strain the pump linkage. A sloppy pump linkage seems to be the worst sign of age in these old pumpers.
As you can tell I love the darned things! ;)
-
My Benji 317 built in 1948 still pumps and holds perfectly. I have owned it about 25 years. Did a previous owner reseal it? The screw heads are all perfect, so unless he or she was a great craftsman, the gun is original.
-
I think Crosman vintage CO2’s hold up the best and are the easiest to reseal. I think they clearly focused here during the golden era and their engineering is hard to beat.
I think Sheridan and Benjamin pumpers are the best built. That said they are not the easiest to reseal that would go to Crosman. With Crosman pumpers I think you need to pick your spots. They were not as consistent.
-
I think Crosman vintage CO2’s hold up the best and are the easiest to reseal. I think they clearly focused here during the golden era and their engineering is hard to beat.
I think Sheridan and Benjamin pumpers are the best built. That said they are not the easiest to reseal that would go to Crosman. With Crosman pumpers I think you need to pick your spots. They were not as consistent.
+1 on that, Steve! Resealing the old Co2 Benji's is NOT FUN! The 250, 260, and 267 were a poor design compared to the Crosmans of that vintage. Ask Tim McMurray.....he won't work on them! For early Crosman Co2 is the King! Pumpers go to Sheridan and Benjamin! JMHO! 8) dave
-
I have Sheridan Streaks that were made in the 1950-1960's that still shoot well, & have never been taken apart.
-
My '67 Sheridan has had only the pump cup replaced. I shoot it regularly.
In CO2, the Crosman 160 and 180 series are outstanding. Well designed and made, rugged, accurate, shoot for many years and easy to work on. The earlier bulk fill guns are excellent as well.
-
In CO2, the Crosman 160 and 180 series are outstanding. Well designed and made, rugged, accurate, shoot for many years and easy to work on.
So true.
Likewise the 150 pistols. Crosman should have continued productions of these CO2 guns. In a way, still persisting, as the QB78.
-
My '67 Sheridan has had only the pump cup replaced. I shoot it regularly.
In CO2, the Crosman 160 and 180 series are outstanding. Well designed and made, rugged, accurate, shoot for many years and easy to work on. The earlier bulk fill guns are excellent as well.
^ That. Simplicity in design, function, maintenance and repairability are all wins in my mind.
Stay safe,
J~
-
I can only echo what's already been said.
In my somewhat limited experience, Sheridan C model and Benji 342 are very fine rock solid pumpers. I recently picked up a Crosman 101 that needs resealed but HEAR I will be impressed with that, so the jury is still out.
With my love for Co2 I can honestly say a 3rd variant Crosman 160 is the pinnacle. The ease of resealing if needed, the excellent trigger group makes me wonder why Crosman ever stopped using it. Heck the QB-78 is a direct (metric) copy of it and STILL been produced and has it's own loyal following.
AND NOW... I am eagerly awaiting delivery of my 114 bulk-fill Crosman... that is a whole other page I am about to turn in the book of historic vintage airguns.
;D
-
I can only echo what's already been said.
In my somewhat limited experience, Sheridan C model and Benji 342 are very fine rock solid pumpers. I recently picked up a Crosman 101 that needs resealed but HEAR I will be impressed with that, so the jury is still out.
With my love for Co2 I can honestly say a 3rd variant Crosman 160 is the pinnacle. The ease of resealing if needed, the excellent trigger group makes me wonder why Crosman ever stopped using it. Heck the QB-78 is a direct (metric) copy of it and STILL been produced and has it's own loyal following.
AND NOW... I am eagerly awaiting delivery of my 114 bulk-fill Crosman... that is a whole other page I am about to turn in the book of historic vintage airguns.
;D
The only thing the 160 lacks is power adjustability thus is out of my backyard rotate. A Sears long stock 180 with two power settings is tops for me.
-
The Benjamin 312, Sheridan C models Silver or Blue Streak and Crosman 101 any period are all great reliable pumpers and very easy to service, repair and maintain as they were all designed with these factors in mind. They just don't make them like that anymore.
I hope to add a Benjamin 342 and 317 one day and a few more Crosmans such as the 140 and 1400.
Another I am impressed with is the Smith & Wesson Model 77A, much like the Crosman 140 in design but harder to find.
I have one Co2 - Crosman Trapmaster 1100 that needs work as it leaks so I can't say much on Co2 reliability until I get this on working correctly.
-
"" Another I am impressed with is the Smith & Wesson Model 77A, much like the Crosman 140 in design but harder to find ""
S & W 77a;
-
These are all great air rifles. But what makes them great? Is your favorite a vintage survivor covered with dings and dents demonstrating that it has seen prolonged hard use? Is it an NIB attic find? I own three Crosman 1400’s (2 shooters and a basket case). Two have seen hard use and have slop in the pump linkage. The one I got from 19Sheridan57 has a tight linkage indicating that the gun had not seen much use or abuse. The OP’s question was which ones hold up the best? Age is a factor but use and abuse should be considered too. I’ll bet my grungiest, rustiest, old Crosman is as tough as any pampered Benjamin or Sheridan.
-
The Benjamin 312, Sheridan C models Silver or Blue Streak and Crosman 101 any period are all great reliable pumpers and very easy to service, repair and maintain as they were all designed with these factors in mind. They just don't make them like that anymore.
I hope to add a Benjamin 342 and 317 one day and a few more Crosmans such as the 140 and 1400.
Another I am impressed with is the Smith & Wesson Model 77A, much like the Crosman 140 in design but harder to find.
I have one Co2 - Crosman Trapmaster 1100 that needs work as it leaks so I can't say much on Co2 reliability until I get this on working correctly.
I resealed my Trapmaster 1100 using the automatic transmission sealer method.
-
Latches,
I wish that was the case with the Trapmaster I have. Unfortunatley the person who had it before me and gave it to me instead of the dump made a real fine mess of the exhaust valve, and most of the seals needed were missing or destryed. Therefore, I will be replacing these items sometime later this year. It took a few cartridges of Co2 that the real problem was the exhaust valve/seal.
-
19Sheridan57
My apologies I missed in my haste of describing the 140, 1400 comparison- outward appearance the S&W 77A share similar lines but not much mechanically except for flat top piston. When it comes to loading pellets the 140 and 1400 are bolt/slide cocking not lever actions like the 77A, all 3 are as reliable as a Timex wrist watch.
Since the vintage pumpers of all makes were designed with self repair in mind, instead of todays practice of designed obsolesence, they are the ones that in my opinion hold up best since they have stood the test of time or else we wouldnt be talking about them or still shooting them today.
-
These are all great air rifles. But what makes them great? Is your favorite a vintage survivor covered with dings and dents demonstrating that it has seen prolonged hard use? Is it an NIB attic find? I own three Crosman 1400’s (2 shooters and a basket case). Two have seen hard use and have slop in the pump linkage. The one I got from 19Sheridan57 has a tight linkage indicating that the gun had not seen much use or abuse. The OP’s question was which ones hold up the best? Age is a factor but use and abuse should be considered too. I’ll bet my grungiest, rustiest, old Crosman is as tough as any pampered Benjamin or Sheridan.
I have had several 'Dans and Benji's that were anything other than "pampered".
Bet my 312 and C9 were "grungier" than anyone in their right mind would consider restoring... Let alone buying. ;D
-
I'm a fan of the Crosman / Sears 1400 rifles. Tough inexpensive rifles.
They seem to have the little extras built in like the dovetail.
For me things like that matter. They are easy to rebuild and parts are availble.
I'm sure Benjamins are great also, but for me, I would take the 1400 on every trip.
In the end, it is all up to the shooter, and the gun. No two shooters or guns are the same.
-
If there is any gun I abused and it took most of it , that would be my first multi pumper early 70's 760 with multi shot clip, and the styrene pump handle that cracked, made a wood one on the radial arm saw, and continued to pump the snot out of it many times 20 or more, double pellet loads etc. Was still shooting with a chopped barrel when I gave it away some 10 years and only 1 re build that was about 3 years after new, and I put another 2 on it after.
-
Still have my 180 ( took a couple nutters and some chippers last year) all original , It did leak some about 9 years ago but pelgun oil fixed it
-
These are all great air rifles. But what makes them great? Is your favorite a vintage survivor covered with dings and dents demonstrating that it has seen prolonged hard use? Is it an NIB attic find? I own three Crosman 1400’s (2 shooters and a basket case). Two have seen hard use and have slop in the pump linkage. The one I got from 19Sheridan57 has a tight linkage indicating that the gun had not seen much use or abuse. The OP’s question was which ones hold up the best? Age is a factor but use and abuse should be considered too. I’ll bet my grungiest, rustiest, old Crosman is as tough as any pampered Benjamin or Sheridan.
I have had several 'Dans and Benji's that were anything other than "pampered".
Bet my 312 and C9 were "grungier" than anyone in their right mind would consider restoring... Let alone buying. ;D
That’s my point. If a gun spends 60 years in a gun safe can it truly be judged to have held up well? If it is a beater that lived under the truck seat or behind the laundry room door and it still pumps, shoots and hits stuff then it is worthy of some respect.
-
My '79 blue streak has seen far far more use than one would think by looking at it.
My dads cousin shot it a lot in the 7 or so years before selling it to my dad, my dad shot it a ton in the 25 or so years he had it before passing it down to me , and I have shot at least 10,000 pellets through it in the 15 or so years I've had it.
One reseal and a barrel soldering later, and it shoots as good as ever.
I would say it has held up very well, especially considering that for most of the time my dad had it the gun lived in his truck and 90% of the time he held it he was stumbling through the foothills with a dwindling 6 pack of beer in his other hands.
I would be very surprised if this gun hadn't suffered some barrel seperation.
-
Interesting thread :D
I repair Sheridans over here in Holland for a bit of extra "hobby cash", and lately I have had a few very frustrating cases.
Cross threaded brass valve retaining nuts (actually my F turned out to be cross threaded so badly that the threads on the inside are totally gone now - a case of total loss?). And barrel/breech separation.
These problems arise from abuse, but still. No offense. I love these guns ;D
Pumper wise, I think the Super Grade is the best/strongest design?
I was thinking Sharp Innova. Although mine don't have problems with the good quality plastic breech, they can break due to abuse.
Sharp Ace is also a good candidate.
The Crosman 107 is a strong gun, but build quality is definately lower than S.G.
Crosman wise, I would say 140. Simple and strong.
CO2 guns - I agree, Rudy Merz Crosman designs all the way.
Just love my 180/187 to bits. Simple and strong, and very good shooters.
(https://i.imgur.com/2Kf2k96.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tlTV4pN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gcXN0QT.jpg)
-
An afterthought:
CO2 gun wise, the seventies Swiss Hämmerli design is also very very good/strong/reliable/built to last.
Just a few seals, so not much to go wrong.
(https://i.imgur.com/5jXGkez.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SoUY3UU.jpg)
-
Do you see many Sheridans over there ? Once in awhile someone asks me to ship one overseas, but I don’t.