GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: stalwart on April 10, 2018, 12:11:15 PM
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It's time to maul something new.
The Sentries are going to get some serious attention here, and we'll use the knowledge and tools used on my beloved XS60Cs ( https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=aebe8e2e62ffe9b83525a064a7172ef9&topic=59114.20 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=aebe8e2e62ffe9b83525a064a7172ef9&topic=59114.20) ) to see just how potent these new guns can be. They have some nice features, and a lot of meat to work with.
The first mod I did was one I do to every gun I customize: I got rid of the automatic safety feature. I don't like them in any gun, and in this one, they are an impediment to smooth cocking (just like the Gen2 60s).
It's easy and quick: Slide the part out like a drawer (there is a detent ball and spring under it), grind off the tab, grease the bottom and slide back in.
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I'm going to make some popcorn to follow this thread :D
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Did a lot of measurements before cutting, and it looks like (just like the 60s, but easier) we can double the stroke.
The first cuts are to gain as much as we can by extending the rearward travel of the bolt/striker. The limit is 7.5mm, as the (sweet) bolt retainer... a ball and spring, cammed... is just rearward of the striker's slot. I simply matched the bolt and internal slots to that distance, and went from ~14mm to just over 21mm. There is a *lot* of room to go forward, with a custom striker (relocated sear and pin).
The first Sentry is going to be a .308, using an Evanix 6 shot .357/9mm mag with sleeves. I plan to tune for 6 shots using these 79gr bullets: http://www.hunters-supply.com/air-308-cal-079-p-766.html (http://www.hunters-supply.com/air-308-cal-079-p-766.html)
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I'm going to make some popcorn to follow this thread :D
You might want to consider making a stew... I'm not known for speed!
Having some real fun here, but have to be careful, as I have no spares. When the latest version comes in, that will all change. Really looking forward to those (in a couple months).
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I'm going to make some popcorn to follow this thread :D
You might want to consider making a stew... I'm not known for speed!
Having some real fun here, but have to be careful, as I have no spares. When the latest version comes in, that will all change. Really looking forward to those (in a couple months).
Yup... Eric tends to put the "stall" in Stalwart Arms...... lol j/k
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I'm going to make some popcorn to follow this thread :D
You might want to consider making a stew... I'm not known for speed!
Having some real fun here, but have to be careful, as I have no spares. When the latest version comes in, that will all change. Really looking forward to those (in a couple months).
That’s funny! At least you are honest and up front and you pursue quality. Just a note... I have the tj 1-20 twist 308 barrel on my Cothran and it shoots the 78.6 grain bbt well and also the 44 and 50 grain jsb. I just ordered som .30 swagged to see if by chance they will also. It’s a versatile barrel.
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Tagging along!
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Me too
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I'm going to make some popcorn to follow this thread :D
You might want to consider making a stew... I'm not known for speed!
Having some real fun here, but have to be careful, as I have no spares. When the latest version comes in, that will all change. Really looking forward to those (in a couple months).
Yup... Eric tends to put the "stall" in Stalwart Arms...... lol j/k
Ouch! True... but, ouch!
;)
I'm going to make some popcorn to follow this thread :D
You might want to consider making a stew... I'm not known for speed!
Having some real fun here, but have to be careful, as I have no spares. When the latest version comes in, that will all change. Really looking forward to those (in a couple months).
That’s funny! At least you are honest and up front and you pursue quality. Just a note... I have the tj 1-20 twist 308 barrel on my Cothran and it shoots the 78.6 grain bbt well and also the 44 and 50 grain jsb. I just ordered som .30 swagged to see if by chance they will also. It’s a versatile barrel.
I plan to get a BBT mold for myself (and dig up my casting gear, it's around here... somewhere), but I need to find as much pre-cast stuff as I can. Most of my clients aren't interested in doing the hard part.
If you would, please, let us know what you come up with? The next Sentry on the chopping block will be a .357, and there is a ton of good stuff waiting to be tried... but the .30 will probably be a local favorite.
Tagging along!
Me too
Get comfy, guys... if half the stuff I'm pondering actually works, we'll be here a while.
These guns are well made, and the sheer weight of them simply means there is room to grow. Once we know what has to be cut away for extra performance, we'll see what we can do about getting them down to "race weight" (I'm actually pretty good at that, experience from a previous life).
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The trigger shown above - Is it the same unit that comes on the Umarex Confusion? ???
Just bought one, since WM has them for $85 now. I pick it up tomorrow. I'd like to disable the auto-safety on it.
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For the most part, yes. The Sentry housing has a longer R mount tab (you can use a screwdriver, instead of a wrench), and the sear has a face suitable for quality trigger jobs (the G2/Fusions have, or at least had, the dreaded "forked tongue" sear, and it looks like Xisico listened to both the whining of myself and Ribbonstone, about the loss of surface area that required a bunch of "creep" to replace).
I have a limited stock of G1 60 sears (full face) to replace the G2/Fusion units... and have been hoarding them for customs... and as soon as I have access to the new Sentry parts, I will stock them for the war on the Forked Tongue.
You will NOT regret the conversion. Take some shots before teardown... then imagine fighting your way past that contraption against a serious cocking force.
Please, let us know which sear your gun has?
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Please, let us know which sear your gun has?
10-4. Will do.
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The first cuts are to gain as much as we can by extending the rearward travel of the bolt/striker. The limit is 7.5mm, as the (sweet) bolt retainer...
For those of us "less knowledgeable" on tuning mods, what is the purpose of this? Does increasing the bolt travel rearward somehow translate to more power?
First impression for me is it would allow longer pellets to be loaded. But something tells me there is more to it than that because the bolts current travel allows the magazine to be loaded and that would be the limit on pellet size... no?
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The first cuts are to gain as much as we can by extending the rearward travel of the bolt/striker. The limit is 7.5mm, as the (sweet) bolt retainer...
For those of us "less knowledgeable" on tuning mods, what is the purpose of this? Does increasing the bolt travel rearward somehow translate to more power?
First impression for me is it would allow longer pellets to be loaded. But something tells me there is more to it than that because the bolts current travel allows the magazine to be loaded and that would be the limit on pellet size... no?
hes coverting to 308 caliber and mag , he will need the travel solely for that ..
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Ahhhhh... Thanks!
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The first cuts are to gain as much as we can by extending the rearward travel of the bolt/striker. The limit is 7.5mm, as the (sweet) bolt retainer...
For those of us "less knowledgeable" on tuning mods, what is the purpose of this? Does increasing the bolt travel rearward somehow translate to more power?
First impression for me is it would allow longer pellets to be loaded. But something tells me there is more to it than that because the bolts current travel allows the magazine to be loaded and that would be the limit on pellet size... no?
The longer the stroke, the more force built up before hitting the valve. Imagine hitting a baseball with a 1 foot swing. There is a point of diminishing returns, but the guns aren't big enough to reach it.
Also going for more mass in the striker. We will see more opposition as the poppet opening gets bigger.
The first cuts are to gain as much as we can by extending the rearward travel of the bolt/striker. The limit is 7.5mm, as the (sweet) bolt retainer...
For those of us "less knowledgeable" on tuning mods, what is the purpose of this? Does increasing the bolt travel rearward somehow translate to more power?
First impression for me is it would allow longer pellets to be loaded. But something tells me there is more to it than that because the bolts current travel allows the magazine to be loaded and that would be the limit on pellet size... no?
hes coverting to 308 caliber and mag , he will need the travel solely for that ..
There is also this, although there is far more room in a Sentry than the 60s. Neither has any extra room at the front of the mag slot, as the port is close.
The stroke will also be increased (at the front) as the striker will be shaped to keep it from hitting the poppet so early. Look at how much the bolt has to move, to close, after the striker rests on the poppet. We're not going to waste any of that...
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I should probably add this:
There is a price to pay here. Given the same striker mass, and spring power, stroking adds to the "lock time" (the time between trigger release and firing). As we are going for more striker mass, this also adds a delay (a body at rest tends to stay at rest)... except that we are going for a LOT more spring pressure. More than enough to speed things back up. The bolt handles I'm working on are to compensate for that added, needed force. No free lunches in Physics... at least, not yet.
Both the 60s and the Sentry are designed with a lot more room for travel than they will ever need at the calibers offered. The noses of the strikers are extended to eat up a bunch of that travel, and allow shorter springs. Our strikers will resemble a ball peen hammer head, more than anything else, and will stop just short of binding the bolt handle. Full unused travel remaining, stock, is about 8.4mm... we should get both good clearance and full possible travel by adding another 7.5mm of room at the front.
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I remember the FD-PCP (XS60C) had some forward and rearward adjustment in the trigger group. This afforded further power adjustment then the actual power adjuster provided. I also remember there being a "sweet spot" and a fine line between engaging the sear and not.
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The longer the stroke, the more force built up before hitting the valve.
There we go, that is what I was wondering if would be the case.
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That adjustment (and the inspection window in the trigger housing) was solely to provide proper adjustment of the direct interface between the safety hook and the striker (covered fully in the 60 thread), leaving the entire trigger system out of the equation. The widespread misunderstanding of how that safety worked, and how to tune it for perfect function, resulted in the contraption we are dealing with now... and a bunch of G1s with all the parts removed (including, for reasons that still escape me, the spring loaded bolt retaining device??? Are floppy bolts cool now?).
That safety is the best design I have ever seen. It is stout and has exactly 1 moving part... compared to the multiple tiny parts needed to lock the sear, thereby jamming the striker, of the "improved" design. I covered this, in detail, in the 60 thread. The designer of that original system got a bad rap, due to sheer ignorance of the design by many.
I came up with an adjustable stop that would allow the gun to be torn down without losing that adjustment, but it wasn't need by those who understand that system. Every G1 I build retains that system... and I trust it as much as I ever do any mechanical device.
You are correct, Bill. Moving that housing back will give you a few mm of added stroke (max)... but more would be gained by simply grinding the striker nose down the desired amount, and letting the striker fly the added distance.
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The longer the stroke, the more force built up before hitting the valve.
There we go, that is what I was wondering if would be the case.
Yup, we are looking for every bit of added power hidden in that gun... and, we'll find it all.
The 60 stroking mods are detailed in the 60 thread, starting at post #438. It is a valuable weapon in our arsenal... and Xisico gave us all the room we need to swing that sword (in both guns).
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Hmmmm.
Already learning about my XS60-C in this thread about my Sentry... BONUS!
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Hmmmm.
Already learning about my XS60-C in this thread about my Sentry... BONUS!
I'll be here all week... be sure to tip your waitress!
;)
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Scott, you would do well to visit that 60 thread as Eric pointed to.
Man... those were the days. My first foray into PCP. The good, bad and ugly of it.
Guys like Eric did amazing things and shared it all. As so with the P-17. I expect this new venture to be all that and more.
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Scott, you would do well to visit that 60 thread as Eric pointed to.
Man... those were the days. My first foray into PCP. The good, bad and ugly of it.
Guys like Eric did amazing things and shared it all. As so with the P-17. I expect this new venture to be all that and more.
From your lips, to God's ears, Bill.
That was the most fun I ever had online (including the NSFW parts). We are smarter, and better tooled now... it could happen!
8) ;D
Haven't said this for a while, but the fact remains: GTA rocks!
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...be sure to tip your waitress!
Always do, but it's easy... her one leg is shorter than the other and she is half in the bag.
(Sorry, wife tends bar and I always say that.)
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...be sure to tip your waitress!
Always do, but it's easy... her one leg is shorter than the other and she is half in the bag.
(Sorry, wife tends bar and I always say that.)
lol... got plans for Friday night? I smell fun...
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Ha!
Never a dull moment around here. ;)
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Following this closely. Recently purchased a Sentry and I am impressed with it so far. Would love to see all the potential modifications that can me done.
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Lee, welcome to GTA. Stick around, we are going to do every mod I can think of... as well as any this motley crew can envision. This ain't our first rodeo... and some of these clowns are smarter than they look!
I'm also impressed with these... more so as I dig deeper. They are an incredible value... the fit and finish are head and shoulders above anything even approaching their price point, and equal to many options well above it.
Seems the long .357 Evanix mags are backorder only, and may not be in until September. So... a Benjamin Bulldog mag is on it's way, for serious consideration. I love the metal mags, but at <1/3 the cost and Crosman's ability to keep them in stock... they have to be taken seriously. We'll know more in a week or so.
I'm halfway through the bolt handle fabbing, more soon. It's gonna be stout and comfy (and with a brushed stainless shaft with choices in knobs).
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Here it is.
I have fairly wide palms, so I made the handle long to fit in the center of my hand. That's a 7/8" rubberized ball, and it still doesn't look too awkward. I can really put some steam to it. I'll stock some pretty knobs, for those who want a finer look.
Instead of the stock threaded attachment, I went with a (60 style) set screw, as big as would fit inside of the bolt, and indexed the handle. This not only means it doesn't have to be Loctited to stay on, it allows it to use a bent handle, if desired, without any tenancy to unscrew when pushing the bolt to battery.
The set screw engages 12.5mm of thread, so it can be safely tightened to absurd levels. These bolts are made of some good stuff (good and hard), so no worries about stripping.
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Eric , do you know what the volume of air onboard is ? Sure would be cool to have a long mag available like the bulldog mag .
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Eric , do you know what the volume of air onboard is ? Sure would be cool to have a long mag available like the bulldog mag .
You caught me about to build a tool, and remove the valve... good timing.
It is exactly 238.07381827985 cc. :D
I have been pondering ways to increase that, and the most effective way, without adding too much weight, may to be to go with a 7/8" OD second tube (in a "folded plenum" design I have been pondering for years). This would add 122cc.
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Not sure what you mean by “folded plenum “ but it sure sounds interesting . Do you have a drawing ?
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Whereas a typical 2 tube set up uses the second tube to replenish the main (eventually), a folded plenum flows well enough from the 2nd tube, to the first, to add power to the shots as they happen.
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If I understand correctly , it would be a second tube under the main only with big porting . Similar to the disco double setup . I take it the tube on the sentry has bigger ID than let’s say a QB78 or disco ?
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Correct, correct, and correct.
When the time is right, you'll see it. In the meantime, please read the 60 thread for an idea why I no longer teach people how to take food off of my plate. A depressing number of people are here precisely for that reason.
I can usually spot them by the fact that no matter how promptly, and completely, you inform them... all they bring are more questions... but never a simple "thank you".
Read up, you'll see what I mean.
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It's time to maul something new.
The Sentries are going to get some serious attention here, and we'll use the knowledge and tools used on my beloved XS60Cs ( https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=aebe8e2e62ffe9b83525a064a7172ef9&topic=59114.20 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=aebe8e2e62ffe9b83525a064a7172ef9&topic=59114.20) ) to see just how potent these new guns can be. They have some nice features, and a lot of meat to work with.
The first mod I did was one I do to every gun I customize: I got rid of the automatic safety feature. I don't like them in any gun, and in this one, they are an impediment to smooth cocking (just like the Gen2 60s).
It's easy and quick: Slide the part out like a drawer (there is a detent ball and spring under it), grind off the tab, grease the bottom and slide back in.
Got my XS60C gen2 on manual safety with your mod. Luv hand pumping this 1500 psi power shooter.
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The 1.5K 60s are the only guns I own that are filled before I get sick of pumping.
Here's a quick mod I'm surprised wasn't in the original design. It is a simple divot that uses the detent that holds the handle up or down (using the bevels in the back), to hold the bolt to the rear while changing mags.
I'm glad they didn't put it in... it would have been 7.5mm too far back.
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I put a 5mm set screw across from the transfer port, to allow using a "crushed" style metal to metal (no o-rings) port.
Went ahead and converted the F barrel mount to the same size... just because.
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It fits. Will take quite a long bullet.
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glad it work out. Mr. Stalwart did you do any testing on the HD Sentry before you stated any of your mods. If so, couid you provide some of the data and what was your impression about the AR?
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Thoughts on the sentry vs the 60c in .45?
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glad it work out. Mr. Stalwart did you do any testing on the HD Sentry before you stated any of your mods. If so, couid you provide some of the data and what was your impression about the AR?
I didn't do a bit of testing. I couldn't wait to tear down and measure. It's a sickness...
Thoughts on the sentry vs the 60c in .45?
The 60 is limited to about 9mm/.357, by the fact that the receiver hasn't the meat (up top) to mount anything bigger. Not sure, yet, what the Sentry will max out at. Lots of meat there.
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Does it drive anyone else crazy that bullet and mold manufacturers so rarely list the OAL of the bullets??
Or, is it just me? :o
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Eric , that is great that you were able to get the bulldog mag to fit the upper. As far as bullet molds and pellet manufacturers , NOE, Arsenal and Accurate list the AOL pellet makers not so much .from what I’ve read the bulldog mag will accept anything up to .6” in length. That seems to be standard with just about all big bore repeaters. Now I really have to get my hands on one of these Sentry’s.
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The wheel on this mag is .670" wide.
I can't imagine you'd regret owning one... it's not like they're hideously expensive, or overly complex.
Thanks for the info. I enjoy an interactive thread... GTA does not pay me for seminars...lol.
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Due to the hunting regulations here in the Province I live in. I’m converting just about all my rifles to .257 and under . And by the looks of it ,the bulldog mag is just about perfect length at .670 “ for a sleeve job and feeding it ammo up to about 80 grain in my preferred caliber. Do you have any pics of valve used in this rifle ? I’m wondering if a Cothran valve could be turned down to fit the ID of the tube . Five shots at 150 fpe sure would be nice .
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Denis,
I have looked closely at the valve, and come up with mod ideas, but haven't done any cutting yet. It will take more than just enlarging holes, for bigger bores... but at .257, it should just need to be opened up a bit and smacked harder.
See what Cothran says about converting to 26mm ID tubes, and let us know? That may turn out to be the best bang for your buck.
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I see you have a method of getting a long stroke from the Sentry which may just be all that’s needed. A heavy brass hammer with peek insert combined with the stroke would be my first mods for big power . Do you think full 1/4 porting is possible ?
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Yup.
The most efficient port sizes are about 80% of bore (diminishing return above that), so, no problem.
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If anyone has a 702, in any condition (even apart), that they want to sell, please email me with your offer.
I have an idea I'm dying to try (and show off!).
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I'm waiting on a special .308 barrel (could be a while?), so I made the first mods to the .357 valve.
Cutting the transfer port area out big enough for full on ports will take out the original poppet seat, so I pressed in a new, brass seat (to be sized), relieved the body ID as much as possible, got rid of the restrictive spring seat and cut the port. The plastic buffer will be trimmed to match that thickness (leaving that much more room for striker mass).
It dwarfs the original TP, shown.
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If anyone has a 702, in any condition (even apart), that they want to sell, please email me with your offer.
I have an idea I'm dying to try (and show off!).
Good news... another victim is coming. It's a .177 with some cool mods, and we'll take a good look at them before making any more. I have a bunch of measurements to make, as the coming production guns are basically a combo of the 702 and the HC. I hope to prove or discard a few ideas before they make it here.
This gun will go back together once it's taught us a few things, I understand it's a real heavy hitter for it's size... some barrel porting is all that's left to bring out it's potential.
We'll eventually cover all calibers here... if you aren't a buffalo hunter, stick around anyway. We're gonna be up to... um... our rear ends in these, very soon. It's a pattern, possibly unbreakable... ::)
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After you work through a .25, could I nail a jackrabbit @ 150 yards?
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Honestly? If he is patient, or you are current and sharp with your Artillery Ballistics skills... yes. Well... maybe.
I think a .308 would be a much better choice, but a .257 might be fun to try (and considerably cheaper to build). You need bullet weight to play humanely at long range.
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.257's, eh? Doable with this gun?
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Yes, but don't take my word for it. Drop by once in a while, and we'll prove it.
Frankly, some of us (a rapidly expanding crew) are taking this design very seriously, and I'm laying down a substantial bet on it (and I may not be alone).
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Thank you.
I’ve liked the stock and the forearm is OK on these guns, but I don’t get the pic rail all the way to the muzzle. I just need it on the breech.
But that’s not what this thread is about. Carry on, Sir.
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Thank you.
I’ve liked the stock and the forearm is OK on these guns, but I don’t get the pic rail all the way to the muzzle. I just need it on the breech.
But that’s not what this thread is about. Carry on, Sir.
don't look at the Sentry look at the Sentry HC and then you will get the look you want
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You are certainly welcome, sir!
We agree on all but 1 point (solutions are in the works). But, as far as this thread goes... It is NOT going to be another seminar. As long as it isn't a bunch of "dreaming out loud", ANY Sentry related questions, comments, or info drops are more than welcome here. I want to have some fun here, and learn what people want to see happen.
Turns out, as the 60 thread proves, you can't run out of room here. We tried, remember?
I am quite able and willing (even eager) to argue intelligently and vehemently with someone who has half a case proving every Sentry should be CeraKoted in hot pink. By Law. And, if someone presents a better argument than I can, I'd like to just listen and laugh. Capiche?
This is not my thread... it's our thread. Let's have some fun with it?
8)
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don't look at the Sentry look at the Sentry HC and then you will get the look you want
Yup.
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Now you got the wheels turning in my head.
I have been thinking about buying a "Big Bore".... as in something larger than a .22.
But if this Sentry of mine is a worthy candidate I am all ears.
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I'm convinced it is, and will be happy to show you why. Can't wait, actually.
Stuff is coming that will help me demonstrate just how versatile this gun can be.
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Interesting fact (at least to me): The HC's tube weighs just over 31oz.
There are alternatives.
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I'll be following this thread. I almost pulled the trigger on the deluxe but, I haven't seen enough info on either model in 25cal. I like the power I've read about but, I'm looking for the accuracy from the factory barrel. Keep up the good work guys!!!
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I'll be following this thread. I almost pulled the trigger on the deluxe but, I haven't seen enough info on either model in 25cal. I like the power I've read about but, I'm looking for the accuracy from the factory barrel. Keep up the good work guys!!!
I'm not the guy to get into claims of accuracy for a given barrel manufacturer, but can honestly tell you this: I use cast off Xisico barrels, left over from bigger bore conversions, to make match grade pistols out of the lowly P17 pistols (kind of the equivalent of an 8 second Civic)... and I have never had a single client wish they had gone with an LW. Not ONE. Know this: The clients I build LW based guns for have NO complaints, but...
You can't expect to get a $200 barrel prep and chamber/muzzle crown in a $250 gun, but, I can say (with proof in hand) that the Xisico barrels are ready and capable of making that work worth it. I have a few custom pistols in my arsenal that will shoot a cheap azz Crosman Destroyer every bit as well as the Meisterkugeln match pellets I swear by... that doesn't happen by accident. I can't do that alone.
YMMV... but, mine doesn't vary much.
BTW, welcome to GTA! This place rocks. Stick around, you'll see...
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I'll be following this thread. I almost pulled the trigger on the deluxe but, I haven't seen enough info on either model in 25cal. I like the power I've read about but, I'm looking for the accuracy from the factory barrel. Keep up the good work guys!!!
I'm not the guy to get into claims of accuracy for a given barrel manufacturer, but can honestly tell you this: I use cast off Xisico barrels, left over from bigger bore conversions, to make match grade pistols out of the lowly P17 pistols (kind of the equivalent of an 8 second Civic)... and I have never had a single client wish they had gone with an LW. Not ONE. Know this: The clients I build LW based guns for have NO complaints, but...
You can't expect to get a $200 barrel prep and chamber/muzzle crown in a $250 gun, but, I can say (with proof in hand) that the Xisico barrels are ready and capable of making that work worth it. I have a few custom pistols in my arsenal that will shoot a cheap azz Crosman Destroyer every bit as well as the Meisterkugeln match pellets I swear by... that doesn't happen by accident. I can't do that alone.
YMMV... but, mine doesn't vary much.
BTW, welcome to GTA! This place rocks. Stick around, you'll see...
Thanks Eric!!!
I was a member here back in the old days from 07 up until I moved into a townhouse 6 years ago and my airgun shooting died after that. Hopefully in the next couple months in can clear out a spot in the garage for a small workbench then I can tinker some. As for the barrel, I wouldn't expect precision in a $250 gun, just hoping for hunting accuracy out to 50 yards. Thank you for the info hope to see more on this gun over the next couple of months.
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I expect there will soon be a lot more info coming in as more shooters take these seriously, and post results. I think I made it clear there is room here for such info, and there will be more threads showing up.
In the Fan Club thread, there was 1 example of horrendous results, but it was found to be moderator clipping at fault. Quick fix there.
Although I am a big believer the chamber has a lot to do with pinpoint accuracy, there isn't much the average guy can do about that except polish. A careful crown treatment has, as far as I know, never hurt a gun... and there are many examples of it making all the difference. A quick search here will show that doing a good job of that is neither expensive nor difficult.
My only point about Xisico barrels is that they are consistent. Slugging them shows they have a bore you can trust. Won't get into naming names, but some supposedly "good" barrels have produced intermittent dragging while slugging, and I have yet to find an X barrel with this flaw.
My guess is that they change their rifling buttons in a timely fashion. I wish more companies did.
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I hope more guys take the leap on this gun. I started cleaning out the garage yesterday and I'm continuing the quest today. Once that's done, I can setup a small workbench. If I pick up one of these rifles I'm going to have Mike go through it and do the initial tune on it. Then I'll start tweaking it. I do have access to a lathe and gunsmith help if in ran into a barrel problem but, sounds like they are already talking care of that.
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The .177 702 is here, and it's pretty sweet!
Given some time, I'll tear it down enough to share all the mods. Turns out, there were 2 modders involved in getting it to 25FPE.
I really like my HC, but have to say that the power level limits inherent in a short barrel and tube are pretty well offset by the handling of this gun. It balances kind of like a heavier 60, and could be called "agile".
I'm liking this gun!
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Eric,
A more traditional thumbhole stock would be nice. It doesn't have to be exotic, just wood, light, functional and budget friendly.
I figured that since the trigger module is basically the same as my XS60 that maybe I could use the XS60 stock on the Sentry. The Sentry tube is wider than the XS60 receiver. So unless you're handy with router tables and such it's a no go for me at least.
Taso
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I happen to have both an action and a 60 stock handy, and although there may be enough wood to re-set the action, routing out the forearm would leave it very thin on the sides.
I wish there was a few guys here who could whip up a stock. It seems to be a rare talent (I certainly lack it).
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Andy and I shot the .177 today. Kinda blew us away. This thing is nasty! The claims of 25fpe are looking quite realistic.
Turns out, there were a couple modders involved in this build, so we may find mods I don't know about (second one did no documentation). The plan, starting asap, is to get hard numbers, then rip this poor thing down.
I have to say that I have plenty of .177 guns to play with here, but this one is stealing my heart. I had plans to really maul this thing, but I'm not going to. As soon as we know what we need to (and the power modding is finished, the first modder has some ideas we are going to try), it's going right back together (aside from some stock work) and into my little pile of trusted shooters.
The new "heavies" have really brought this caliber into a different light here. A short barrel doesn't mean what it used to.
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Just chrony-ed the .177, with JSB Beasts (16.2gr). It runs about 860fps... producing 26.6 FPE. I'm impressed... should I be?
Edit for new numbers... eyes over (way over) 40 here.
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Just chrony-ed the .177, with JSB Beasts (18.2gr). It runs about 860fps... producing 29.9 FPE. I'm impressed... should I be?
How's it for accuracy at that level? That'd be quite an amazingly penetrative pellet. If the accuracy is there it'd be quite a dandy rig for small game larger than squirrel.
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I don't have a Sentry.... but skimming through the thread I have one comment.... NOE, Accurate, and Arsenal all list full dimensions, including LOA, for all their bullet designs.... Lee, on the other hand, don't....
Bob
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How's it for accuracy at that level? That'd be quite an amazingly penetrative pellet. If the accuracy is there it'd be quite a dandy rig for small game larger than squirrel.
Right now, I have to travel to get more than 20 yards of room. The police put in one of those shot detectors in, right across the street, so we're limited to indoor shooting from now on (not gonna take on a SWAT team with an airgun, until they have advanced considerably...lol) . There's a ranch nearby we can use, on occasion, so we'll be making forays out there... but, the days of just stepping out of the shop and letting a few loose, are over.
I don't have a Sentry.... but skimming through the thread I have one comment.... NOE, Accurate, and Arsenal all list full dimensions, including LOA, for all their bullet designs.... Lee, on the other hand, don't....
Bob
Lee, RCBS...
I am mostly referring to those who sell pre-cast bullets, as I don't see a lot of people around here getting into casting. It still doesn't make sense to me that that info isn't routinely included by all.
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an airgun will set off the shot detector and deploy helicopters in some cases, don't ask how I know
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an airgun will set off the shot detector and deploy helicopters in some cases, don't ask how I know
Sounds like a lot of excitement for the price of a pellet!
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anyway, erasing all incriminating info ;D
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lol... they may not be cheap compared to other pellets, but... compared to just a few revolutions of a set of rotor blades...
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anyway, erasing all incriminating info ;D
LOL! Smart fella...
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anyway, erasing all incriminating info ;D
LOL! Smart fella...
LOL.
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Hmmmm.... shot detectors around here are different. If they don't detect any shots in a predetermined amount of time it puts a welfare check in motion to make sure everyone is ok.
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Hmmmm.... shot detectors around here are different. If they don't detect any shots in a predetermined amount of time it puts a welfare check in motion to make sure everyone is ok.
;D ;D ;D
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Hmmmm.... shot detectors around here are different. If they don't detect any shots in a predetermined amount of time it puts a welfare check in motion to make sure everyone is ok.
LOL.. How progressive!
I'm kinda glad it's here. Year and a half ago, a stray .45 slug came through my office wall, missed my head by 40" and buried itself in the next wall. Then about 6 months ago, they found a body with "5 or 6" bullet holes in it, literally a stone's throw from my door. The detector was put in a couple months later, and things have been quiet since.
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As a matter of fact I stepped out the door at 6:30 this morning and fired a few rounds out of my CP-1 carbine just to reset the timer. I'm not fond of random welfare checks.
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I told people the clowns in this rodeo weren't as dumb as they look. I'd call this confirmation.
Good thinking.
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Modder #2 drilled 3 more holes in the barrel. I'm told it didn't have any real effect. Modder #1 wonders if making the trough deeper would help.... We're going to find out.
The remaining material in the trough, is .107" thick. The width of the trough is .118". We can go a little deeper and wider... and a polish can't hurt.
Has anyone messed with filling these, and putting in a single large port?
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Took out as much as I dared.
The chamber was shallow, and the leade was steep, so I ran my reamer in it and set it up so the Beasts would tighten a bit early but set smoothly.
The crown was cleanly cut, so I just polished a bit, just because...
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Took out as much as I dared.
The chamber was shallow, and the leade was steep, so I ran my reamer in it and set it up so the Beasts would tighten a bit early but set smoothly.
The crown was cleanly cut, so I just polished a bit, just because...
looks like a different barrel , nice
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Thank you, sir.
Speed test soon. There are other mods planned (if they aren't already done), but we want to check each for individual effect.
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Took out as much as I dared.
The chamber was shallow, and the leade was steep, so I ran my reamer in it and set it up so the Beasts would tighten a bit early but set smoothly.
The crown was cleanly cut, so I just polished a bit, just because...
I have to say.....I'm humbled. :-\
I bought an HC specifically so that I could dig into it and get what I could get out of it. I did everything I THOUGHT I should do. For a normal 'joe blow' I think I did a pretty good job, but criminy. Now I realize what a hack I really am. Your work, good sir, is inspiring!
It's even pretty! ;D
I can't wait to see how this build comes out!
Hmmm. I may have to go back and work on mine some more.
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Took out as much as I dared.
The chamber was shallow, and the leade was steep, so I ran my reamer in it and set it up so the Beasts would tighten a bit early but set smoothly.
The crown was cleanly cut, so I just polished a bit, just because...
I have to say.....I'm humbled. :-\
I bought an HC specifically so that I could dig into it and get what I could get out of it. I did everything I THOUGHT I should do. For a normal 'joe blow' I think I did a pretty good job, but criminy. Now I realize what a hack I really am. Your work, good sir, is inspiring!
It's even pretty! ;D
I can't wait to see how this build comes out!
Hmmm. I may have to go back and work on mine some more.
Thank you! The truth is, the one thing that you can say, that makes me proudest... is that I have inspired you to keep modding. So much to be learned... so fun to study. You made my day, bud! ;D
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The numbers are in... the barrel work had (literally) ZERO effect. So, I went deeper.
The TP is .145", the valve opening is at .177", and the receiver is at .177". According to everything I've read here, anything beyond bore size is a waste, and anything over about 80% of bore is in the land of diminishing returns.
If the experts are correct, there really isn't much that can be done here (although I'm open to suggestion, I'm NOT going to nut up on this gun trying to prove my mentors wrong). There is 1 clear limiting factor: The length of the TP system (which, later, is going to prove to be a compromise we are more than willing to make... stay tuned). There is a reason the 60s are zippy (shortest possible transfer length), given the same port sizes, and the limitations that come with that become clear as you try to go bigger bore (I wish X would let me design the next 60 receiver...lol). I love my 60s, always will, but we are now on to a gun with room to get truly stupid (AKA, tinker's paradise... at least here).
The fact remains: If you need a Sentry that puts out more than ~27 fpe, you need to go .22. Pure and simple. There is room to make a .22 pretty hot, without extreme mod$... choose accordingly. Again, bullet weight/bore size calls the shots.
BTW... don't forget this gun is running a 15" barrel... a nice 25" barrel would give us room for more. Maybe someday... ;D
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Eric , I think barrel length may be the biggest problem here. But what if you overcome the barrel length with “ way oversized “ porting ? I don’t think ive seen this done before . So let’s say running .22 porting in a .177 cal including the transfer port. What does that do . The best I’ve done on high power builds was full bore porting at a quite efficient .1.35. It may not be the most efficient but I think this might be unchartered territory . I believe Lloyd’s last build using multiple ports in the barrel were a sign of what’s to come . I think we need to look at it like a mechanical Diesel engine fuel pump where all the injector lines are the exact same length / volume for balance or vice versa dwell is in relation to transfer port length.
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The Big Dogs here have been down this road, I just don't have links to what I read about it all. It's worth a search.
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Spent some quality time with a belt sander and the Dremel.
Still a long way to go, but it fits my hand so all 3 knuckles line up with the trigger... falls naturally into place.
This is going to be a fun build!
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Hey Eric,
What are your plans for the rear stock?
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Gonna mess around with covering the cheekpiece with something... eventually.
Moleskin?
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See if you can get a sample of sea deck or hydro turf. Comes in a huge array of colors
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Never seen it. What is it like?
Seadek looks like mousepad stuff.... might be quite comfy!
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SeaDek is a nonabsorbent, closed cell PE/EVA blended material specifically formulated for marine applications. It's 3M pressure sensitive adhesive back make application a breeze. It's used on decks of boats, pwc, paddle boards kayak etc. It can be made in varying thicknesses for increase shock absorbing while standing. It's soft to the touch. Check out seadek dot com
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SeaDek is a nonabsorbent, closed cell PE/EVA blended material specifically formulated for marine applications. It's 3M pressure sensitive adhesive back make application a breeze. It's used on decks of boats, pwc, paddle boards kayak etc. It can be made in varying thicknesses for increase shock absorbing while standing. It's soft to the touch. Check out seadek dot com
Here's the link for you.
http://www.seadek.com/ (http://www.seadek.com/)
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Guys, thank you.
http://www.seadek.com/c-5-sheet-material.aspx (http://www.seadek.com/c-5-sheet-material.aspx)
Looks like the reel pad is not only cheapest, but at 8" x 8" there is plenty. The cheekpiece needs a piece 4" x 7", so a careful cut would yield 2 parts. If it stretches at all, 2 would be easy.
Wonder how you would go about smoothing/rounding the edges... heat gun? Fine wire wheel? Belt sander?
With the decorative groove in the CP covered, you could pull off some interesting reshaping moves.
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I don't mind the stocker, except one trait: Although the plastic doesn't have that cheap cold plastic feel, it has a kind of motley sheen that just looks cheap.
Enter Scotchbrite red pads. Took me 1 min to bring it to an even matte finish that even feels good. Whole different look. I'll try the gray (finer) pads on another... pick my favorite.
Never know where this thread will go... and that's half the fun (maybe more)!
Proud to be in present company.
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The gray pads don't give you a noticeably different texture (and require scrubbing), and the red ones take out the mold line right away. Red for me.
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You can cut it with a razor knife and should be able to clean up the edge with a palm sander and fine grit paper. Not sure about the reel pads but the larger pieces do not stretch.
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It would make sense that none of it stretches, given it's purpose.
I think it's a great idea, and what could be easier to clean?
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Spent some quality time with a belt sander and the Dremel.
Still a long way to go, but it fits my hand so all 3 knuckles line up with the trigger... falls naturally into place.
This is going to be a fun build!
I am confused (normal)
Is this going to be a pistol?
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Yeah... I got hooked on Bench Rest pistol after building this 20M aspirin assassin, years ago. As an SSP, it's only good for 5fpe... and I want to try longer ranges.
The 702's ambi bolt makes it perfect for this. Should be a bunch of fun.
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THIS'LL BE COOL!!!
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Mr. Stalwart,
When you take the Sentry apart what are your thoughts about the hammer spring and the valve spring for smaller calibers like the .177 or .22? Do you feel that that the springs are balanced or under/over powder?
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Mr. Stalwart,
When you take the Sentry apart what are your thoughts about the hammer spring and the valve spring for smaller calibers like the .177 or .22? Do you feel that that the springs are balanced or under/over powder?
The poppet spring is only needed to maintain the seal during low/no pressure conditions. The pressure from a filled reservoir is far more than the spring exerts.
If the hammer spring produces enough pellet power, it is appropriate.
So... yes, if you like the output, they are perfect.
Edit: Here's something I just saw, on this subject: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=144572.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=144572.0)
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Wonder how you would go about smoothing/rounding the edges... heat gun? Fine wire wheel? Belt sander?
I ordered a sheet for my Mrod target stock. Previous owner put something on the CP, but it's peeling off and smells questionable..
(https://i.imgur.com/BbQ8u7N.jpg)
I'm guessing a drum wheel on a dremel motor might work.
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Yeah, just settle down into that bio hazard... concentrate... and squeeeeze.
If you would, please, let us know how it works out?
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I ordered a sheet for my Mrod target stock.
I have one of those.. guy that designed them is a friend of mine....
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Could I get a bit of history on them? I understand he's in Washington State and doesn't make them anymore. Just curious. Saw one at my first field target match and that was 4 years ago.
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Could I get a bit of history on them? I understand he's in Washington State and doesn't make them anymore. Just curious. Saw one at my first field target match and that was 4 years ago.
Mark Gravelle, he's in Oregon, just above Ashland.... and yea he's not makeing them anymore....
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Eric , I’ve been waiting to see if you completed the bulldog magazine install on the Sentry. I may have found a source here in Canada but the stock magazine is not what I’m after .
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My Seadek order finally got here today. So I removed the bio hazard off my CP and went to work.
(https://i.imgur.com/JofR6Fb.jpg)
Sanding drum works great for rounding edges. I ran it perpendicular and tapered the edge I cut. I used a straight edge for a guide and set the motor on low RPM. No I didn't do that in the kitchen..
(https://i.imgur.com/Y8jwIng.jpg)
And I had plenty left over for the hook.
(https://i.imgur.com/V31HYNM.jpg)
Nice stuff. I like it.
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Eric , I’ve been waiting to see if you completed the bulldog magazine install on the Sentry. I may have found a source here in Canada but the stock magazine is not what I’m after .
The BD mag is cut into the receiver, and just *barely* fits. I have not set up the retaining ball yet, but have it figured out. Lots going on here. There is space to fit any mag I've seen, as the BDs are as big as it gets.
Sorry about the late answer, but the "notifications" function didn't function. Comes and goes...
My Seadek order finally got here today. So I removed the bio hazard off my CP and went to work.
Nice stuff. I like it.
Beautiful job, and a great post. Thanks.
Quite pretty... good color choice for that gun.
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I chose that color so the CP won't cook too much in the sun while waiting my turn to shoot. They do have a good color selection. I liked the camo that's available.
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No stench, no burns... good call.
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Sounds like a Duluth Trading Co. commercial...
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Sounds like a Duluth Trading Co. commercial...
Well, they do sell underwear... and both attributes are desirable in that context.
;D
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Best commercials ever!
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This is why I said I was happy to compromise on the long transfer port length.
Zero drop. ~25cc plenum... but I can add all the plenum you'd want, it just makes the lower longer.
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All the pistol parts are finally in the same place.
Balance point is at the F edge of the receiver... perfect.
4#, 5.6oz. Not too bad, but there is a little left to lose.
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Now if that don't look like something you would board a pirate ship with.. nothing does.
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Now if that don't look like something you would board a pirate ship with.. nothing does.
You like?
As mentioned in the 60 thread, there are legal pot farms nearby, and they are not allowed (by local ordinance) any firearms. Looks like I have a couple rigs sold to 1 farm (we'll see, still just talk), and I'm going to build them unregged 4.5K big bores that closely resemble this one.
This one gets no frills, looking for race weight... but, the defense rigs might get a little tactical. They won't be hiked with, so a little more weight won't matter.
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Be interesting to see what form of payment you'll be receiving.
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Be interesting to see what form of payment you'll be receiving.
That didn't occur to me, but there clearly are options!
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I know what option I’d take 😂. JK , in my younger days there would have only been the one option. I kinda like the pirate look . I’ve been wondering about a short .6” shot shell that I could use in a smooth bore close to .357 cal . Have any ideas Erik .
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I have just the thing but unfortunately it don't come in the air powered form....
.410/.45
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Now if that don't look like something you would board a pirate ship with.. nothing does.
Maybe an airship, lol.
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I have just the thing but unfortunately it don't come in the air powered form....
.410/.45
Nothing like a scatter gun pistol that fits in a tool box. That would be nice to have. I used to work in some shady places late.
Wish I knew where one was...
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I know what option I’d take 😂. JK , in my younger days there would have only been the one option. I kinda like the pirate look . I’ve been wondering about a short .6” shot shell that I could use in a smooth bore close to .357 cal . Have any ideas Erik .
None... but, I will say that I have been wanting to research the topic for a snake gun. Something super light... couple heavy shots. I read everything I see here on scatterguns. We're still looking at a bunch of work to just equal a .410 Derringer.
Considering an add-on set up (like a grenade launcher on an AR).
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14.7 mm barrel OD, 3mm drop. A 5mm drop will clear, nicely, the 20mm OD of the stock barrel shroud.
Going to be an interesting week here. The new rifles are in the States, and a few are coming here. I can't wait to see the final configuration, and finalize some designs.
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A Pifle--Cool!
I'd cut a rear slanted angle in the front of the stock where it meets the bottle.
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A Pifle--Cool!
I'd cut a rear slanted angle in the front of the stock where it meets the bottle.
There will be options with the unregged tankers. I set everything back, shortening the action tube and the receiver. Looking for less weight, better flow and better balance... getting 2 that we know of. Being able to cut the stock without having to leave traces of it's old config has me thinking of precisely that detail. Sometimes a simple slash cut (same as grip angle, but reversed?) is enough said.
The big bore receiver weighs 7 1/2 oz, the stocker comes in at 9.6.
The 380cc 4.5K tank weighs 17.5 oz. The shortened action tube is 8.6 oz. So, if you subtract the action from the HC's tube weight, to get the actual reservoir weight (31 oz minus 8.6)... you get 232cc for 22.4 oz of weight with the stock set up.
With the tank, you get 400cc... and it weighs 4.9 oz less. If you do a lot of hiking, just the rearward movement of the balance point of a long barreled gun can be nearly priceless (been a while, but I remember).
We're headed in the right direction... 8)
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Eric,
I suffered my first malfunction with mySentry. after a hot day of shooting at 95 degrees it suddenly failed to fire. Gauge showed 2000 psi left and all i got was "tink".
I removed the mag to not double load and after 3 more attempts with "tink" I gave up.
I thought maybe the heat was the issue. Two days later inside in the A/C I just tried again... "TINK"... nope.
So I pumped it up to 2600psi thinking maybe MORE air pressure would help. WRONG! same out come.
Seems like it is valve locked.
Any suggestions?
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I'm not positive, but I think that the Sentry uses the same type of valve stem that the QB78's use. In that case, I've had more than one QB have the valve stem push through the brass stem head. All you get is a thud.
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Bummer... If that is the case how do I degass a Sentry in order to work on it?
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Pump your pump until you hear the inlet valve open, then very slowly open the bleed screw just a hair. A few minutes later open it just a hair more. You want it to leak out slow enough the inlet valve doesn't shut.
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Eric,
I suffered my first malfunction with mySentry. after a hot day of shooting at 95 degrees it suddenly failed to fire. Gauge showed 2000 psi left and all i got was "tink".
I removed the mag to not double load and after 3 more attempts with "tink" I gave up.
I thought maybe the heat was the issue. Two days later inside in the A/C I just tried again... "TINK"... nope.
So I pumped it up to 2600psi thinking maybe MORE air pressure would help. WRONG! same out come.
Seems like it is valve locked.
Any suggestions?
Pump your pump until you hear the inlet valve open, then very slowly open the bleed screw just a hair. A few minutes later open it just a hair more. You want it to leak out slow enough the inlet valve doesn't shut.
Thank you, Steven... that would be my first suggestion. If that doesn't work, pull the stock off, pull the spring adjuster and striker, and use a piece of wood to replace the striker and tap it with a hammer until it "shoots" the air out.
Please let us all know what you find?
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Gotchya...
I will post updates as they occur... unless you want me to start a new thread on it.
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Gotchya...
I will post updates as they occur... unless you want me to start a new thread on it.
That would be cool, too.
If you do, please link it here?
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Roger that.
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Hello Stalwart, how did your pistol ended?
thank you
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Forgot about this thread until now...
Here is what I found with my Sentry with pics.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=136950.msg1544759#msg1544759 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=136950.msg1544759#msg1544759)
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This is why I said I was happy to compromise on the long transfer port length.
Zero drop. ~25cc plenum... but I can add all the plenum you'd want, it just makes the lower longer.
Stalwart,
Just wondering if your bottle adapter Used above is available to purchase ? And what kind of price ? Thanks
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Hey guys!
SA is currently in storage, as I need to find a new shop. All the plans and products are still in play, but no production can happen until I find a place I can count on to last. Anyone who is on the notification list, will be the first to know when it's up and going again. If you emailed me, you are on the list.
Can't promise a date, but will say I have no intentions of giving this all up... I love this work, and have more innovations to share.
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Hey guys!
SA is currently in storage, as I need to find a new shop. All the plans and products are still in play, but no production can happen until I find a place I can count on to last. Anyone who is on the notification list, will be the first to know when it's up and going again. If you emailed me, you are on the list.
Can't promise a date, but will say I have no intentions of giving this all up... I love this work, and have more innovations to share.
Good news and bad . Hope you find a suitable shop space soon .
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Hey guys!
SA is currently in storage, as I need to find a new shop. All the plans and products are still in play, but no production can happen until I find a place I can count on to last. Anyone who is on the notification list, will be the first to know when it's up and going again. If you emailed me, you are on the list.
Can't promise a date, but will say I have no intentions of giving this all up... I love this work, and have more innovations to share.
Good news and bad . Hope you find a suitable shop space soon .
Me too. It may have to be out of the area, though... the big weed farmers have bought up all the reasonably priced industrial space here. Even thinking about taking on investors, so it can be done right and permanently. Would love to set up all the tools for the very last time, and never think about it again. Tempting... we'll see.
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Hey guys! There are some things I have to make public knowledge, due to recent developments, and this has to be the perfect place:
1. Zed R. Fatka is not currently associated, in any way, with Stalwart Arms... he does not represent us in any way.
2. Any products that are copies of products we offer (even near copies), are NOT authorized by us, no matter who produces them.
If any of the above changes, there will be immediate notification here.
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While I feel there is underlying tension...
It's nice to have you back Eric.
Did you find a shop space?
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It's all good. When this has sorted itself out, I will lay it all out for those interested. Deja vue is an understatement!
I have not found a shop the proper size (and a long commute is not in my cards), but I am also looking into splitting the processes up into a group of smaller places nearby. I have one in mind already, and the search is on for more.
The longer this takes, the more I'm excited to get back to work. So much more I want to show my friends here...
Still grinning here, some day you'll know why!
:)
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Hey guys! There are some things I have to make public knowledge, due to recent developments, and this has to be the perfect place:
1. Zed R. Fatka is not currently associated, in any way, with Stalwart Arms... he does not represent us in any way.
2. Any products that are copies of products we offer (even near copies), are NOT authorized by us, no matter who produces them.
If any of the above changes, there will be immediate notification here.
i never said i was part of stalwart nor did i want to, i was a fan who has a project i am waiting for, gave him everything he needs and plenty of extra parts to do it it has been over a year i am still waiting, i did go and help him pack up when he lost his shop space spent 10 days on my own dime to help him clean and organize, i do not understand the anger, in truth to all that ask i just asked him to allow me to help produce the disco double parts and increase the availability
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Post edited, at the request of a mod I respect very much.
If anyone is a fan of Soap Opera, I may put this all up on my site. My distaste for predatory business practices is strong... and this is actually fun (given that it's not the first time this has happened here).
Any fans of P17s, and my thread on them, knows what's up... and the last time, I got nothing but solid, immediate support from GTA. So... I will proceed here under the full regulation of the staff here.
Thanks, guys.
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Please play nice in the sandbox...
I am not a mod and there is too much good info here to loose.
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Please play nice in the sandbox...
I am not a mod and there is too much good info here to loose.
You got it. And, thanks for the compliment!
:)
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you gentlemen can carry this conversation on privately it will not be discussed on the open forum. David
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you gentlemen can carry this conversation on privately it will not be discussed on the open forum. David
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No problem!
:)
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Hey Guys
Any more into on these AG's? I want a 25 cal to go my herd.................... ;)
Thanks,
Don
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Unsteady ground here Don... Good luck!
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Hey Guys
Any more into on these AG's? I want a 25 cal to go my herd.................... ;)
Thanks,
Don
mike at flying dragon has the .25 sidelever in stock
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Hey Guys
Any more into on these AG's? I want a 25 cal to go my herd.................... ;)
Thanks,
Don
mike at flying dragon has the .25 sidelever in stock
Side lever would definitely be my pick for sure, MM has a great deal on the new ones IMO, the side lever on them is about the smoothest I've used yet. Not only that it's got the longer barrel and big air tube also.
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Thanks Guys
I'll call in the AM and see if he has a 25 cal in stock,............
AND I don't have ANY 25 cal ammo in the shop, what do you all recommend for pellets etc,
oops, I just remembered that I have a couple 3 cans of OLD Beemans from the 70's,
I wonder if they'll work........... ;)
Don
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Many cast their own, but AA 25.4 gr is a good starting point, .25 Benjamin Domes may be a cheap alternative, they are not real pellet picky IMO.
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Thanks James
I have a NOE 25 pellet mold that I have loaned out, so I have that end covered,
guess I do some shopping around................ ;)
Don
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Don I just checked the longest pellets I have which are Barracuda 31.02g, they're too long at .390, my 34.5 grain magnum hunters are .380 long and they fit well and cycle good in the mags but I think that's the maximum length you'll be able to get to work in them.
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Thanks Wayne
For the info,
As soon as I get the 25 cal, I'll play around with the OLD BEEMAN pellets,
so I have time to get the best pellets/slugs etc.
Don