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Author Topic: Shot Placement,...More Skulls, More Pictures  (Read 26256 times - 1 votes) 
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2014, 10:28:55 PM »
needs to be 2" towards the eye
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Offline 454 Big Block Chevy

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2014, 11:01:01 PM »
got ya.  i thought i was pretty close to halfway there
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Offline 454 Big Block Chevy

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2014, 11:04:30 PM »
ok, hopefully this one is more clear.  Manny, i know these 3 dots are close together.  But with the precision of today's rifles, Which color dot would YOU pick on a perfect side profile shot?
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2014, 06:47:45 AM »
On that Hog because is slightly quartering to me I would go definitely Yellow
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2014, 12:23:44 PM »
On that Hog because is slightly quartering to me I would go definitely Yellow
Manny,
 assuming that is a 200 -250-ish Lb hog, what would you imagine the minimum effective caliber/fpe (at POI), would be on the yellow dot?

Also, what would be your thoughts on Domed. vs. Ultra Shock HP's, vs. Plastic or Steel tipped pellets?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 12:27:35 PM by tri-5-ron »
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2014, 02:47:48 PM »
Pelletwise I like Harder lead domes like the Benjamin, Baracuda in .25 and the domed 28gr EunJin and the Pointed 32gr EunJin in .22 cal

I would never,ever consider taking a shot at that Hog with any Hollowpoint or tipped Pellet, I want immediate and further possible penetration.

That particular shot on that size Hog I would comfortably take with a 60 FPE either  in .22 or .25 using the above mentioned pallets, I would stay in the 30-40 yards max range.



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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2014, 04:25:03 PM »
Thanks Manny,
Wow, I would have thought that 60 FPE for a side skull/brain shot,
 might be a lot more than necessary to effectively put that down at 30 yds.
 (maybe even excessive amount of power)
 Not trying to debate it, or argue at all.
 I just didn't think the side of the skull would be nearly that tough to get through.
 I understand what you are saying in you would be comfortable with 60FPE, and certainly I would also.
 I'd just have guessed that a considerably less, (maybe even 25 or 30 FPE), would be enough to penetrate the side of the skull.
 (especially when using a heavy domed pellet)

I'd like to see a comparison of how thick the side of the skull is, vs. how thick the top of the skull is (just for a comparison), on the large black boar in your video.

 I like to see/do the comparison between that one you shot, and the thick noggin on the one we butchered a couple of weeks ago.

Would it be possible to get a measurement of skull thickness from your hog at both the top of the skull, vs. the side at point of entry ?

I did notice on your dried practice skull,... it seemed to have considerable more "air pockets" it the top (forehead) part of the skull bone mass, than my hogs skull had.
 My hogs nogging was hard as a rock and 1 1/2"+ thick. (I still think it was Strangely thick in that area for it's age)

 HMmmmmm,.... interesting.

Great Thread, learning a lot.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 07:00:25 PM by tri-5-ron »
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2014, 07:37:07 PM »
I think you are right, a 40 FPE gun would most likely suffice, but I rather error on the extra power side,
 as I mentioned several times in the past, when I had my Marauder .25 shooting the 45 FPE maxed out tune I never felt comfortable in taking it to hunt hogs, I was significantly more comfortable with my 55 FPE Rainstorm .22.

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2014, 07:53:21 PM »
I just want to understand this, Ron.... Are you saying that about 25-30 FPE should be enough to penetrate through 1.5" of solid bone with enough energy left over to fully penetrate the brain?....

Bob
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2014, 10:50:11 PM »
I just want to understand this, Ron.... Are you saying that about 25-30 FPE should be enough to penetrate through 1.5" of solid bone with enough energy left over to fully penetrate the brain?....

Bob

Bob, no,... absolutely not. That is not what I was saying, as was clearly evident in the results of my recent complete failure to humanely put down one of our hogs.

What I was asking  is, if that would be enough energy to penetrate into the brain cavity from the side of the skull, (at the diagramed yellow dot).

I'm assuming that the reason Manny prefers to take a profile side shot to the brain, is because the side would be thinner and have less bone mass.

Just trying to learn from more experienced shooters, and make ethical choices.

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2014, 11:02:36 PM »
So where is the skull over 1.5" thick?.... (colour me confused).... Has anyone ever tested different FPE levels on the skull of a hog at different USABLE entry points?.... I don't hunt hogs (none around here) but I like to learn what works and what doesn't....

Bob
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2014, 12:23:08 AM »
So where is the skull over 1.5" thick?.... (colour me confused).... Has anyone ever tested different FPE levels on the skull of a hog at different USABLE entry points?.... I don't hunt hogs (none around here) but I like to learn what works and what doesn't....

Bob

Bob,
maybe you missed our recent discussion where I had put a few of our domestic hogs down for butchering.
 I had no problem humanely dropping a 5 month old pig through the top of the skull at approx. 3/8" thick using a RS2 springer at point blank range. (no I would never use that rifle on a hog at normal hunting ranges).
It produced full skull penetration and instant death.

 A couple weeks later, I tried the same thing on a 8 month old pig, and the results were far from desirable.
 This pig was only 3 months older, and the skull was over 1 1/2" thick at the same spot.

so in only 3 months, the skull had thickened at an unexpected rate, and the results were far from what I had anticipated  or counted on.

here is a link to that thread

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=76576.0
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2014, 07:21:50 AM »
To make something clear.

By far my favorite choice of shot is the top of the forehead, it's a more flat surface and there's no meat to go through before getting to the bone, I want instant skull penetration, yes the skull on the side is thicker but there's plenty meat before you reach the skull and there's more curves and sticking out bones, a little off and it's all over.

Definitly, top of the forehead is my all time 1st choice.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 07:24:11 AM by Nomadic Pirate »
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2014, 11:06:35 AM »
yes the skull on the side is thicker but there's plenty meat before you reach the skull and there's more curves and sticking out bones, a little off and it's all over.

Definitly, top of the forehead is my all time 1st choice.

Wow, I would never have thought that the skull on the side is Thicker.
 Guess it just goes to show that I have all of my thoughts messed up on this.
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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2014, 11:27:17 AM »
I'm still trying to warp my head around a pellet being able to penetrate 1.5" of bone when it won't go through a 2x4, which is also 1.5" thick.... WOW!!!

Bo
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Offline Mod90

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2014, 11:36:56 AM »
I think he meant thinner but mistyped thicker Ron.

Bob, to my understanding the difference between 1.5" of wood & 1.5" of bone is that wood though a little more dense does have a lot more give/flex than bone, thus being able to absorb the shock better than bone w/o allowing a pass through.
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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2014, 01:04:56 PM »
As usual Manny, good information!

Now if only I could go piggy hunting in lovely California with my Sumatra or a 909s or ?

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Offline GTA_NO_Longer_The_Best

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2014, 01:10:23 PM »
I'm still trying to warp my head around a pellet being able to penetrate 1.5" of bone when it won't go through a 2x4, which is also 1.5" thick.... WOW!!!

Bo

Keep in mind the materials you are comparing. Wood is fibrous and densely packed, being made from interlocking protein chains. It slows and stops the pellet by stretching and tearing. Bone is honeycombed and more friable, being made from a flaky metal held together with glue. It slows and stops the pellet by using crumple zones, much like how cars are designed. Trees are built to withstand the forces of nature, i.e. wind, weight of snow or water; bone is built to support the rest of the animal and the skull to protect the brain from impacts. The cross section of the pellet and the speed at which it is traveling determines how far it penetrates. Also, a 2x4 is dead, processed wood with compacted cells, while the skulls being discussed are still living material with expanded voids. Both will react in different ways.

Offline Matt15

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2014, 01:26:59 PM »
Hey Manny, have you ever shot a pig in the head and it got away?
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Shot Placement
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2014, 02:28:17 PM »
yes the skull on the side is thicker but there's plenty meat before you reach the skull and there's more curves and sticking out bones, a little off and it's all over.

Definitly, top of the forehead is my all time 1st choice.

Wow, I would never have thought that the skull on the side is Thicker.
 Guess it just goes to show that I have all of my thoughts messed up on this.


Sorry, sorry,...late at nite after bartending and having several drinks :) :) ...thinner, I ment thinner.
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