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Author Topic: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on  (Read 9665 times))

Offline airguner

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2014, 01:55:29 AM »
Great shot.and a awesome rifle
he should make good eating ;D
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2014, 02:43:26 AM »
Travis,
Short answer,... Yes on the "X" between eyes and ears on a pig.
or
Longer answer,... http://www.hsa.org.uk/positioning/pigs

Or Google " bolt stunning livestock" or "bolt stunning pig", and you'll find lots of info and diagrams.
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Offline nappyman

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2014, 02:18:55 PM »
Just amazing manny center mass and lights out. This little piggy took a wrong turn going to the market :P
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2014, 04:34:30 PM »
Good kill. That's a pretty hog. His head is broad and well defined. Most of Florida's hogs are full of domestic genes from the days the settlers freeranged their hogs and they interbred with the European wild boars the Spaniards brought . Therefore not all wild hog heads look "wild" like that here.

Speaking of his head, I noticed in the third picture of the hog where he's stood up that its very easy to see your shot placement. Its so hard for me to shoot for that point on an instinctual level. Even as I imagine aiming at him right now everything inside wants me to pull the crosshairs down to between his eyes.

Would it be accurate to say that the proper shot placement for a head-on shot (with the hog's head down) would be to draw and X between his eyes and ears and aim for the center of the X? To me it looks like your shot placement does that. If so, that might make it easier for me to line up to imagine the X. 


Yeah Travis that is one of that big misconceptions.

For the pellet/bullet to reach the brain by aiming beween the eyes the boar would have to be looking at you, at that point the skull is so slanted that it would be a certain deflection with an airgun, hey we hear storys like that with firearms alot too.

if the head was down and you shot right in between the eyes the pellet/bullet would miss the brain, with the head down the spot is exactly where I shot this one, LOL  ....How very concieted of me :) :) :)

I don't know if you've seen this old thread of mine, but it's a good reference fot whom wants to Hog hunt with airguns

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=49944.0
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2014, 09:54:14 PM »
Good kill. That's a pretty hog. His head is broad and well defined. Most of Florida's hogs are full of domestic genes from the days the settlers freeranged their hogs and they interbred with the European wild boars the Spaniards brought . Therefore not all wild hog heads look "wild" like that here.

Speaking of his head, I noticed in the third picture of the hog where he's stood up that its very easy to see your shot placement. Its so hard for me to shoot for that point on an instinctual level. Even as I imagine aiming at him right now everything inside wants me to pull the crosshairs down to between his eyes.

Would it be accurate to say that the proper shot placement for a head-on shot (with the hog's head down) would be to draw and X between his eyes and ears and aim for the center of the X? To me it looks like your shot placement does that. If so, that might make it easier for me to line up to imagine the X. 


Yeah Travis that is one of that big misconceptions.

For the pellet/bullet to reach the brain by aiming beween the eyes the boar would have to be looking at you, at that point the skull is so slanted that it would be a certain deflection with an airgun, hey we hear storys like that with firearms alot too.

if the head was down and you shot right in between the eyes the pellet/bullet would miss the brain, with the head down the spot is exactly where I shot this one, LOL  ....How very concieted of me :) :) :)

I don't know if you've seen this old thread of mine, but it's a good reference fot whom wants to Hog hunt with airguns

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=49944.0

The two hogs I've shot with an airgun were both hit between the eyes. One didn't die and the other died badly to the point I don't even think of it as a real airgun kill.

I got used to shooting hogs between or in the eyes with a .22 magnum back in the days when I used to shine them at night. Often the eyes were only point of aim you could make out. The .22 mag would do it but that was because it was fragmenting and blowing up inside the skull.

Wanting to aim for the eye is something instinctual with me. As I practice aiming on a hog in my mind it seems so unnatural to aim so high on the head. If I don't consciously force myself to aim higher on the forehead I won't naturally do it. Somehow imagining drawing the X on his head makes me focus and gives me a solid point of reference. That might be part of my problem. The eyes by themselves are an easy point of reference and they're something I'm looking at anyhow. When you look at an animal you naturally look at its eyes to see what it is looking at and to time your movements with the brief moments its eyes are shielded. Which a hog has poor eyesight but that's not the point.

I think drawing the "X" is really going to help me with my shot placement on a head-on shot.
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2014, 05:47:51 PM »
here Travis, a couple more examples of a frontal shot









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Offline Steveoh

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2014, 06:06:47 PM »
Thank you Manny. You are passing on incredibly useful information and educating us less experienced air gunners and hunters. This is what the internet is about. Freely sharing experience and information and making this a smaller world.


I am very grateful!

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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2014, 10:47:57 PM »
Thanks Steve.

I think it's paramount if we handicap ourselves with relatively low power airguns and going for big game to know exactly how/where and when to shoot.
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Offline Big Bore Bart

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2014, 11:46:33 PM »
   Manny would I have your permission, to use your pics to try to get airguns legal for hogs in CA?
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2014, 07:23:57 AM »
   Manny would I have your permission, to use your pics to try to get airguns legal for hogs in CA?

Absolutely, let people realise what a properly used airgun is actually capable off, however keep it on the big bore range otherwise you'll do what Crosman does and promote small bore for hog hunting but there's to many uneducated people out there and that would be counterproductive,...push for .357 and up,
leave the small bores to idiots like me that like to tangle with the hogs in tight places undergunned :) :)
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Offline jimmie lee

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2014, 12:48:51 PM »
Always enjoy your posts of hog hunting Manny; other firearms forums I'm on have guys hunting the same size pigs with huge calibers. Every time I read of their exploits I think of you and your success rate and snicker at their failure to take a wild pig with anything under .30 cal. and none even consider a head shot. Good going!
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Offline Big Bore Bart

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2014, 02:32:55 PM »
   Manny would I have your permission, to use your pics to try to get airguns legal for hogs in CA?

Absolutely, let people realise what a properly used airgun is actually capable off, however keep it on the big bore range otherwise you'll do what Crosman does and promote small bore for hog hunting but there's to many uneducated people out there and that would be counterproductive,...push for .357 and up,
leave the small bores to idiots like me that like to tangle with the hogs in tight places undergunned :) :)

  Thank you.  ;D    I was considering .30 and up with a min 75fpe.     
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2014, 03:54:07 PM »
personally with a 75 FPE .30 (talking CenterMass shots here ) I would limit myself to very, very small pigs.

I would definatly go .357 minimum with 150 FPE, and that is in the 30 yards range, if we stretch the range than I would look for more FPE for sure
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Offline Mr.Bojangles

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2014, 10:13:12 PM »
I just wanna throw this out there about head shots.

Im pretty new to ag, but I've done my share of hunting, including quite a bit of guiding. Imo, the high forehead shot is not optimal. It is effective as long as you are 100% confident of shot placement and penetration, but it has its flaws. Ive shot most of my big game with a bow, and shot placement is very critical, and i have caped many skulls out, from small game to whitetails, and have become a study of wild game anatomy. With that in mind, i would submit that a quartering away shot, at the crease between the neck and ear as being the ideal brain shot, especially with a low energy projectile like these. There are a couple reasons. One, the front brain is the frontal cortex, and can actually be partially destroyed, and allow basic brain function (i.e. a frontal lobotomy). Two, the front of the skull is very strong and in most animals the thickest part, with few of the plates jointed, and its on a long sloping angle, further complicating good penetration. Third, the animal is facing you for the shot. This is just a personal thing, but i don't like taking shots on facing critters. I don't want them have any possible premonition of danger. The rear of the skull is mostly rounded, especially at either side, providing a much better angle to penetrate the skull. It is also much thinner and weaker at the back, as this is where the plates join together. If a projectile enters at the back of the skull, it immediately destroys brain tissue and nerves that are essential to organ function. Given this, i prefer a back of the head shot.

This is a personal opinion, and I'm not trying to step on anyones toes. Manny has clearly proven multiple times that a frontal shot with the right  equipment will get it done, but there is another, possibly better brain shot to consider. I hope you guys all understand that he is very carefully selecting these shots, and placing the pellet in a very precise area at the correct angle, and with enough power to do the job.

Great shooting manny, keep it up man!
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2014, 11:14:34 PM »
Yeah, I like the quatering away shot idea and took it a few times, However in wild pigs that is definatly not a weak spot,
if you look at this video that shows a skull from a quatering away position you clearly see that you are shooting at a thick angle in the skull, that sharp bone angle can easily deflect or even outright stop a pellet,
it's a shot that I take only if I'm not given any other choice and even than I'm very reluctant to with small bore since I've experianced failures,
 the Flat Frontal shot has never failed me.

Small | Large
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 11:51:32 PM by Nomadic Pirate »
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix REX Carbine         .357  180 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine    .357  150 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine II  .357  150 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II            .30  100 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II           .30   85  FPE
Evanix Storm Mini-Carbine  .30   70  FPE
Evanix Storm II Carbine     .25   70  FPE
Evanix MAX-ML                 .25   65  FPE
Evanix Storm II Model 70   .25   50  FPE

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2014, 12:19:21 AM »
One more thing, the true back of the skull on pigs is covered by alot of thick strong muscle, that itself will slow down small bore pellets considerably,
 the frontal shot is directly on bone.

Anatomically the porker is vastly different than a deer or most animals with the back of the skull exposed
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 02:15:29 AM by Nomadic Pirate »
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix REX Carbine         .357  180 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine    .357  150 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine II  .357  150 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II            .30  100 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II           .30   85  FPE
Evanix Storm Mini-Carbine  .30   70  FPE
Evanix Storm II Carbine     .25   70  FPE
Evanix MAX-ML                 .25   65  FPE
Evanix Storm II Model 70   .25   50  FPE

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2014, 12:28:33 AM »
A friend of mine a few days back went to set up a blind in an area where I shot a couple of sows a few months back, he took and sent me a picture of the skull of the one I shot frontally







I was stalking her in the brush when I spotted her slowly come my way on a trail,
the shot was taken offhand standing, it wasn't my prefered angle but I was shooting my AR6 with the 32.4gr EunJin at 20 yards and since she wasn't a big porker I felt confident, so on this shot since she wasn't having her head down I aimed just above the eyeline.



  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix REX Carbine         .357  180 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine    .357  150 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine II  .357  150 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II            .30  100 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II           .30   85  FPE
Evanix Storm Mini-Carbine  .30   70  FPE
Evanix Storm II Carbine     .25   70  FPE
Evanix MAX-ML                 .25   65  FPE
Evanix Storm II Model 70   .25   50  FPE

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2014, 04:10:19 PM »
I just wanna throw this out there about head shots.

Im pretty new to ag, but I've done my share of hunting, including quite a bit of guiding. Imo, the high forehead shot is not optimal. It is effective as long as you are 100% confident of shot placement and penetration, but it has its flaws. Ive shot most of my big game with a bow, and shot placement is very critical, and i have caped many skulls out, from small game to whitetails, and have become a study of wild game anatomy. With that in mind, i would submit that a quartering away shot, at the crease between the neck and ear as being the ideal brain shot, especially with a low energy projectile like these. There are a couple reasons. One, the front brain is the frontal cortex, and can actually be partially destroyed, and allow basic brain function (i.e. a frontal lobotomy). Two, the front of the skull is very strong and in most animals the thickest part, with few of the plates jointed, and its on a long sloping angle, further complicating good penetration. Third, the animal is facing you for the shot. This is just a personal thing, but i don't like taking shots on facing critters. I don't want them have any possible premonition of danger. The rear of the skull is mostly rounded, especially at either side, providing a much better angle to penetrate the skull. It is also much thinner and weaker at the back, as this is where the plates join together. If a projectile enters at the back of the skull, it immediately destroys brain tissue and nerves that are essential to organ function. Given this, i prefer a back of the head shot.

This is a personal opinion, and I'm not trying to step on anyones toes. Manny has clearly proven multiple times that a frontal shot with the right  equipment will get it done, but there is another, possibly better brain shot to consider. I hope you guys all understand that he is very carefully selecting these shots, and placing the pellet in a very precise area at the correct angle, and with enough power to do the job.

Great shooting manny, keep it up man!


was just looking at pictures of Deer, coyote and other animals and I agree 100 % with you that the back of the head would be a great shot indeed, that way their cranium is so high and exposed makes a great target :)
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix REX Carbine         .357  180 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine    .357  150 FPE
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine II  .357  150 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II            .30  100 FPE
Evanix RainStorm  II           .30   85  FPE
Evanix Storm Mini-Carbine  .30   70  FPE
Evanix Storm II Carbine     .25   70  FPE
Evanix MAX-ML                 .25   65  FPE
Evanix Storm II Model 70   .25   50  FPE

Offline Mr.Bojangles

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2014, 08:59:59 PM »
I just wanna throw this out there about head shots.

Im pretty new to ag, but I've done my share of hunting, including quite a bit of guiding. Imo, the high forehead shot is not optimal. It is effective as long as you are 100% confident of shot placement and penetration, but it has its flaws. Ive shot most of my big game with a bow, and shot placement is very critical, and i have caped many skulls out, from small game to whitetails, and have become a study of wild game anatomy. With that in mind, i would submit that a quartering away shot, at the crease between the neck and ear as being the ideal brain shot, especially with a low energy projectile like these. There are a couple reasons. One, the front brain is the frontal cortex, and can actually be partially destroyed, and allow basic brain function (i.e. a frontal lobotomy). Two, the front of the skull is very strong and in most animals the thickest part, with few of the plates jointed, and its on a long sloping angle, further complicating good penetration. Third, the animal is facing you for the shot. This is just a personal thing, but i don't like taking shots on facing critters. I don't want them have any possible premonition of danger. The rear of the skull is mostly rounded, especially at either side, providing a much better angle to penetrate the skull. It is also much thinner and weaker at the back, as this is where the plates join together. If a projectile enters at the back of the skull, it immediately destroys brain tissue and nerves that are essential to organ function. Given this, i prefer a back of the head shot.

This is a personal opinion, and I'm not trying to step on anyones toes. Manny has clearly proven multiple times that a frontal shot with the right  equipment will get it done, but there is another, possibly better brain shot to consider. I hope you guys all understand that he is very carefully selecting these shots, and placing the pellet in a very precise area at the correct angle, and with enough power to do the job.

Great shooting manny, keep it up man!


was just looking at pictures of Deer, coyote and other animals and I agree 100 % with you that the back of the head would be a great shot indeed, that way their cranium is so high and exposed makes a great target :)

Thanks, i was kind of embarrassed after looking at the pics of the hog skulls because your absolutely right. I have never had a chance to look at a hog skull, and when i posted that i had deer, coons and coyotes in mind.

I had come to that conclusion after having several critters run off with holes in they're heads from a facing shot, or having to finish them after hitting them to far forward with a broadside head shot, and decided i needed to think a little more about where i was hitting them. So i think its safe to say that on most critters, a back of the head shot is optimal, centered forehead a close second, but on hogs with a low energy projectile, a nice square shot in the forehead is the way to go. I would also say that on just about any critter, a projectile directly through the eardrum will reach the brain with little impedance.
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: It was a Dark, dark Storm and the Rain kept on
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2014, 09:36:55 PM »
Yep, agree with you,

I was just looking at my daugther's cat just sitting there and thinking about this Thread and yes that back of the Cranium would be a great shot and so it would be on the vast majority of animals out there,....Hogs are just built differently :) :)

on the ear drum canal matter, don't know about other critters but if you carefully look at those hog skulls, there's no direct path to the brain and still have to go throught a full skull bone, so, again talking small bore I rather shoot where the sking is directly on the skull (between eye and ear)
 because if you actually shoot at the ear you'll have some meat/cartilage to go through and that can considerably slow down a pellet (small Bore)

.....so in the end I want to shoot somewhere where it impacts immediatly with bone.
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