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Author Topic: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG  (Read 23206 times))

Offline Bobbo

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 12:01:46 PM »
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which 
is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action 
of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, 
however: 
        (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or 
    B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile 
    not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or and which has a 
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or 
    breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors
;


NOTE: The strike outs and underlined "or" are in the link. I did not add them for stress.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 12:03:22 PM by Bobbo »
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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 12:44:17 PM »
Well heck. I went back to the HB4063 and re-read it.    Guys, it does in fact, look like ANY caliber under 700fps is exempt. :D
Here's the link to the history of the bill and specific wording:
http://ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=4063&GAID=11&GA=97&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=63317&SessionID=84
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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 01:06:11 PM »
Now that I'm thinking about it more.  I retract my credit to the legislation for common sense.  Seems to me that they transferred the fps problem from 1 caliber,  and put it on ALL the other calibers.   A new can of worms?  Seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back for the folks in the enforcement division.
How fast can PCPers turn pressure in the field??? :D ;)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:17:10 PM by KYMike »
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Offline bodybag0

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 05:33:49 PM »
Guys to me it looks like anything that shoots over 700fps and .18 is a firearm.  So if my disco in .177 is shooting 1000fps, that means its a firearm because its shooting over 700fps.
To me it looks like nothing has changed.   The new law says "not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or which has a 
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second "

Please help me to see what your seeing :o
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Offline FerrumB5

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 05:40:25 PM »
Here's an extract from a NEW law:

""Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which
is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action
of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding,
however:
        (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or
    B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile
    not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or which has a
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second"

The keyword of a new law is "excluding, however...". I.e. any AG below 0.18 is NOT a firearm no matter what it's FPS is.
A combination of > 0.18 and < 700 FPS (that Dragon Claw) is still blurry to me :)

But I want my 0.177 and those idiots at our local BassPro do not agree with a State Public Act :( :'(
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Offline Bobbo

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012, 05:49:36 PM »
Guys to me it looks like anything that shoots over 700fps and .18 is a firearm.  So if my disco in .177 is shooting 1000fps, that means its a firearm because its shooting over 700fps.
To me it looks like nothing has changed.   The new law says "not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or which has a 
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second "

Please help me to see what your seeing :o

bodybag0, you are correct in that anything over .18 AND 700fps is a firearm. However, EITHER under .18 OR under 700fps exempts the gun from being a firearm, so since your .177 is NOT over .18 it is exempt.

Here's an extract from a NEW law:

""Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which
is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action
of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding,
however:
        (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or
    B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile
    not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or which has a
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second"

The keyword of a new law is "excluding, however...". I.e. any AG below 0.18 is NOT a firearm no matter what it's FPS is.
A combination of > 0.18 and < 700 FPS (that Dragon Claw) is still blurry to me :)

But I want my 0.177 and those idiots at our local BassPro do not agree with a State Public Act :( :'(

This is clearer if you re-write it as two separate statements.

NOTE: THIS IS MY REWORDING AND IS NOT IN THE LAW!!!

""Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which
is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action
of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding,
however:
        (1) (a)any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or
    B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile
    not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or
             (b)any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or
    B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile
which has a
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second"


So, either (1)(a) or (1)(b) qualifies as not a firearm.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 05:56:44 PM by Bobbo »
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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012, 07:19:54 PM »
bodybag0.    The change is to define what is "excluded".  It is a bit confusing if you don't bear in mind that you're looking for "exclusions".    The last 2 words in the main paragraph tells the tale..."excluding, however": ,,,,then read subparagraph (1) that starts defining those "exclusions" to the FOID requirement.
No  .177 air rifle requires FOID.
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Offline FerrumB5

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012, 08:56:12 PM »
It looks to me that all local sporting goods stores (OK, except Dick's, that doesn't have my BlackHawk) are managed by stubborn guys that don't know how to read! Even a specialized gun shop manager read the new law today in front of me three times and did not understand it (or did not want to understand it)... Feel my pain? I just might order from the internet ... 
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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 08:42:10 AM »
I'd order it as well then.  Free shipping thru P.A.  or  AGD by the time you order a few pellets.  Both are good Vendors.
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Offline FerrumB5

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2012, 08:54:28 AM »
P.A. doesn't have BlackHawk in stock either :(
I'll try AGD may be
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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2012, 09:30:46 AM »
AGD has them.  Shipping on them should be around $16.00.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 09:32:38 AM by KYMike »
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Offline Tater

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2012, 03:31:24 PM »
Here's an extract from a NEW law:

""Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which
is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action
of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding,
however:
        (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or
    B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile
    not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or which has a
    maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second"


The keyword of a new law is "excluding, however...". I.e. any AG below 0.18 is NOT a firearm no matter what it's FPS is.
A combination of > 0.18 and < 700 FPS (that Dragon Claw) is still blurry to me :)

I think the key word in the bold part is "or". It took me a bit to understand but I take it as <0.18" or less than 700 FPS. So any FPS in .177 works and anything bigger than that must be less then 700 FPS.
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Offline FerrumB5

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2012, 10:55:40 PM »
I apologize in advance for double posting (first time in like 12 years in many may forums), but.. I really lost my patience with this IL law! Lots of words below...

My question to IL residents - if I get an AG off the web, and don't have a FOID - what does it mean for me? no shooting? no transporting? no possession? (P.S. ow would they distinguish between a 1000FPS blackhawk and de-forced 495 FPS one anyways? ;))


OK, Ladies and Gents.. My patience has come to an end finally.. I went to every single sporting goods store and specialized gun stores around Naperville and Aurora, State of stupid Illinois AG laws! Out of (count now!): Gander, Dick's, BassPro, Sports Authority, Cabelas, JR Shooting, numerous Walmarts, local gun stores, etc - only BassPro has Ruger Blackhawk in stock at the store. NONE of them (except Dick's! Thank you!) acknowledge the new IL Firearms ACT, although I sure had the printout with me and the ASSistants and managers read it numerous times as well... Some stores have Airhawk in wooden stock, which I don't want as the synthetic stock is much more durable and casted better than carved wood.
I think I spent a good $50-70 on gas just to do the driving around.. for nothing.

Internet stores saga:
-- P.A. - great store, great price, doesn't have my RBH in stock now :( sad
-- AGD - great store, OK price, shipping is like $18
-- many others: ok price, bad shipping
-- Dick's online: BAD price! (139.99 yep), but free shipping + 20% off for orders of over $150 - just throw in a tin of CPHP (it's crosman premier hollow point, ain't it?) for 12.99 and the total order becomes $122 or so... AND NO FOID!

Sorry for many words, but it's like I'm buying a nuclear bomb or strategic B-1 bomber - c'mon man!
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Offline aack73

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2012, 11:01:52 PM »
i like that interpretation better. ;D

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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2012, 10:57:03 AM »
I here ya.  At $4.00/gallon, it sure doesn't take long to eat up the shipping costs by running back and forth.  If you have a problem, AGD sends you a FEDEX label for returns.
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Offline vadalejrfan

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2012, 09:00:54 PM »
An airgun is only excluded from being a firearm, if it is smaller than .18 dia bore and has a muzzle velocity of "less then 700 FPS"
Any airgun larger than .18 or has a muzzle velocity of over 700 FPS is concidered a firearm there for require a FOID card.

This means you can buy a Daisy lever action BB gun in Illinios with out a FOID card.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 09:02:37 PM by vadalejrfan »
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Offline aack73

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2012, 09:51:11 PM »
An airgun is only excluded from being a firearm, if it is smaller than .18 dia bore and has a muzzle velocity of "less then 700 FPS"
Any airgun larger than .18 or has a muzzle velocity of over 700 FPS is concidered a firearm there for require a FOID card.

This means you can buy a Daisy lever action BB gun in Illinios with out a FOID card.

i think you may have misinterpreted the new changes.? ;D
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Offline Bullit

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2012, 09:20:44 AM »
Yes, that is how the previous law read.  It is a little tricky.
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Offline William

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 06:29:15 PM »
As long as it is .18 cal. and smaller it does not matter how fast it shoots- it is NOT A FIREARM>
As long as it is SLOWER than or equal to 700 FPS then any caliber even a .50 cal. - is NOT A FIREARM.

IF it is FASTER than 700 FPS in anything above .18 cal. it IS A FIREARM.
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Offline mobilemail

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Re: No FOID needed for ANY .177 cal AG
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 07:17:07 PM »
Zombie thread!!!
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