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Author Topic: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring  (Read 1481 times))

Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2021, 04:22:49 PM »
@HM - That works, and yes there are a lot of things I wish I had known in advance. Also very pleased to hear the parts to convert to N-Tec are available, it makes me feel much more pleased with my decision.


Any further attempts to fix the diana are placed on hold until a new spring is acquired, but I have become a little suspicious about whether the Vortek spring is the proper one for the 34 EMS or whether it is for an older 34 model. I purchased it along with a breech seal from Vortek, and when it arrived the breech seal was obviously the wrong size.

Well what size was it?  Should be 28mm+...

-Y
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2021, 05:12:42 PM »
That answers my question, and it is 28mm. Still need to get Vortek to replace the breach seal they sent me.
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2021, 07:33:21 AM »
That answers my question, and it is 28mm. Still need to get Vortek to replace the breach seal they sent me.

Soryy the piston seal in 28mm.  the breach seal,????
Just measure yours.

-Y
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Offline Roadworthy

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2021, 11:59:18 AM »
In a pinch I've used an O ring faucet washer from the plumbing department of the local big box store.  Take the old one along for comparison.  Like the piston seals they generally last a very long time.
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2021, 07:33:33 PM »
@HM - That works, and yes there are a lot of things I wish I had known in advance. Also very pleased to hear the parts to convert to N-Tec are available, it makes me feel much more pleased with my decision.


Any further attempts to fix the diana are placed on hold until a new spring is acquired, but I have become a little suspicious about whether the Vortek spring is the proper one for the 34 EMS or whether it is for an older 34 model. I purchased it along with a breech seal from Vortek, and when it arrived the breech seal was obviously the wrong size.

Spring is on its way.

Keep us posted!






HM
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2021, 11:22:29 PM »
Well, God bless Hector's soul, the spring arrived today. Also, after making a trip to Ace hardware I was able to pickup two tapered pins to act as dummy pins. When I say tapered pins, only the last 1/16th of an inch of both ends were tapered, which was nearly perfect for the application. Sadly, the diameters of the pins varied slightly, they both worked effortlessly, only one was a little loser than the other. After using them, I have to admit Hector was absolutely correct in stressing their necessity. They are a requirement for necessary assembly of the of the trigger action.

Once assembled though, the rifle still fails to charge. Which baffles my bagels. I know with my Rugger 10-22, the trigger mechanism has to be charged during reassembly. Is this a similar situation?
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2021, 12:26:35 PM »
Nope!

Are you sure you assembled the trigger correctly?

This is an inteference trigger, wich means that the small ramp at the BOTTOM pops "UP" and blocks the piston from moving.

This ramp is pushed into place when the TOP of the piston pushes on the safety plate at the UPPER end of the trigger.
Make sure that the rear stock screw is not overly tightened and try again.
If it does not work, then you will need to remove the spring and make sure that the piston latches the trigger without any spring pressure.
Use just the REAR action closing pin to test this (gun without spring), if it latches, then the problem is with the spring.
You know that it latches if you need to remove the trigger unit to release the piston. IT should be easy to remove the trigger unit, as there is no spring pressure.

If you feel this is too daunting, feel free to send me the gun.

Really sorry you are having all this trouble.






HM
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2021, 06:16:50 AM »
It is an odd error indeed, and admittedly I am coming to my wits end with the rifle. The only reason the safety spring was damaged, was out of my ignorance not to use dummy pins and one of the pins snagged it during its installation. As far as the rest of the trigger is concerned, it has not been touched since the Diana factory. Which I am starting to form the suspicion of Diana's factory actually being secretly located in the infamous Wuhan province of China.

The catch (which I am assuming is the ramp you are referring to) is being pushed outwards/downwards from contacting the piston, and I have applied pressure to it gently to see if it would latch to the piston as it should to no avail. I have also backed out the trigger adjusting springs slightly to see if those were problematic, along with the rear and front trigger guard screws. Next, I will break down the rifle again, and remove the trigger spring as suggested and run some tests to see if that is the possible culprit. If this does not work, I will then break down the entire rifle and trigger into it's components and take photos of them. This will further aid in the troubleshooting since the T06 on the 34 EMS is slightly different from any of the trigger diagrams I have found online. It would be nice if Diana published the spare parts list for this rifle online.

I also need to relubricate everything since, breaking it down and reassembling it has wiped most of the grease off the parts. I am assuming white lithium grease and engine assembly grease is acceptable until the moly lube I just purchased arrives.

Now, if only I could find a way to successfully stabilize the shaft of the mechanical fuel pump for my tractor, so I could finish with it's disassembly. Then readjust it's timing to match the engine. Life would be cooking with peanut oil at that point.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 06:21:10 AM by precisionaction »
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Offline Denby95

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2021, 09:52:05 PM »
It is an odd error indeed, and admittedly I am coming to my wits end with the rifle. The only reason the safety spring was damaged, was out of my ignorance not to use dummy pins and one of the pins snagged it during its installation. As far as the rest of the trigger is concerned, it has not been touched since the Diana factory. Which I am starting to form the suspicion of Diana's factory actually being secretly located in the infamous Wuhan province of China.


The gun is made in Germany. Political discussions are not for the German gate.
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2021, 10:56:19 PM »
So, after running my tests, which included removal of the hook spring, I still do not have a working air rifle. I also disassembled the trigger twice and tested its functionality each time. After doing this I am more informed of its brilliance of design and operation. I noticed how the bottom of the cocking lever fits into the back of the Upper Hook, and am proud to say that the safety does function quite well. I also noticed how the lower lever fits into and operates the hook. From everything that I can tell, the trigger works as it should.

My next experiment that I hope to attempt before the end of the night is to remove the Vortek spring and reinstall the stock spring that came with the rifle. It may be the case that the sleeve of the Vortek spring is interfering with the ability of the Upper Hook to successfully latch onto the piston. Past this point, I will have run out of ideas.

Attached is the breakdown of the trigger identifying it's various parts according to gunspares.co.uk.
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2021, 04:43:15 AM »
And the end result of all my effort was discovering that the Vortek spring was the culprit all along. Once the Vortek was replaced with the stock spring, she came back to life. Apparently, the Vortek spring for the Diana 34 is not compatible with the new Diana 34 EMS, and only works on older models. I have already contacted Vortek so that they may notify other customers of the incompatibility. I will break her back down again tomorrow to get specific measurements of the difference and attempt to discover exactly what is throwing the upper hook off and preventing it from latching onto the piston.

Also from my research into the issue I discovered the stock is collapsing from where the two front action mounting bolts are secured too tightly. Which, I was completely unaware of, since the bolts have a habit of backing themselves out. I guess I should have gone with the synthetic stock. It also still has a ding inside the rifling of the barrel that occurred in the first week of ownership. So, I might need to get that taken care of as well. Walther Lothar has barrel blanks at a fairly reasonable price, so I thought about upgrading the barrel while I have the opportunity. I just don't know of anyone that can turn the barrel of an air rifle. Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 04:46:04 AM by precisionaction »
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2021, 05:06:43 AM »
And the end result of all my effort was discovering that the Vortek spring was the culprit all along. Once the Vortek was replaced with the stock spring, she came back to life. Apparently, the Vortek spring for the Diana 34 is not compatible with the new Diana 34 EMS, and only works on older models. I have already contacted Vortek so that they may notify other customers of the incompatibility. I will break her back down again tomorrow to get specific measurements of the difference and attempt to discover exactly what is throwing the upper hook off and preventing it from latching onto the piston.

Also from my research into the issue I discovered the stock is collapsing from where the two front action mounting bolts are secured too tightly. Which, I was completely unaware of, since the bolts have a habit of backing themselves out. I guess I should have gone with the synthetic stock. It also still has a ding inside the rifling of the barrel that occurred in the first week of ownership. So, I might need to get that taken care of as well. Walther Lothar has barrel blanks at a fairly reasonable price, so I thought about upgrading the barrel while I have the opportunity. I just don't know of anyone that can turn the barrel of an air rifle. Any suggestions?

William,

Many people recommend reinforcing the wood where screws go througth with "crazy glue", or similar.  As for a new barrel, I would suggest that you contact Hector about that... 8) ;)

-Y
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2021, 08:04:42 AM »

Many people recommend reinforcing the wood where screws go througth with "crazy glue", or similar.  As for a new barrel, I would suggest that you contact Hector about that... 8) ;)

-Y

Well Yogi,
I have to admit, while my pellet rifle was out of commission I slid my bore snake through it. It is the same boresnake I use for my 22lr. The caliber is the same, so I figured I could at least fight off the potential for rusting. For ten shots she was loud and smokey, but then she quited all down. Now, that blemish has disappeared, and the rifling is in terrific shape.
I got up at the crack of dawn to try her out again, after all Sunday is gun day. My hands were shaky, but she is firing good. I was hitting the target at 100yards, not good, but hitting the paper. The lack of sleep, and other frustrations of life were getting to me. I had my grumpy pants firmly on earlier. Shooting helps me to find peace and solace in this hectic world. Everyone has problems, and for some reason throwing lead helps me to forget many of mine.
It is good to hear about the reinforcement, I enjoy working with epoxy and have been wanting to bed the rifle for sometime. Since I am still stumped with my tractor's fuel pump, it might be a good day to watch some Bat Masterson and bed the rifle

Happy gunday
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2021, 12:22:26 PM »
Just to let you know, the .22 LR and .22 pellet are a different diameter.  Slightly...

Yoga and meditation help with life's struggles... ;) ;D

-Y
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Offline Bill_in_TR

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2021, 03:01:37 PM »

Yoga and meditation help with life's struggles... ;) ;D

-Y

Did you mean Yogi and meditation?
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2021, 06:03:41 PM »

Yoga and meditation help with life's struggles... ;) ;D

-Y

Did you mean Yogi and meditation?

No Bill  ;D ;D ;D
I'm not a calming influence on most people.  Probably more the opposite? ::)

-Y
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2021, 06:44:17 PM »
William;

My deepest apologies for not havog explained that the spring you needed to test without was the MAIN spring (I.E. the Vortek kit)!

So, so, sorry!

Life is hectic for everyone, but still, I am sorry that the "spring" in my comment was understood as the trigger spring and not the MAIN spring.

I am happy that you now have located the problem.

Keep well and shoot straight (now that you CAN shoot)!





HM
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Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2021, 01:22:49 PM »
This is going to have to be a quick and dirty post, I gotta run.

In summary: The vortek spring was most definitely not compatible with the Diana 34 EMS. It is made for the previous models, but not the EMS. A side by side comparison with the assistance of a ruler clearly showed this was the case. The two springs differ from each other in almost every respect. This helped to explain why the breech seal vortek sent me was not the correct size as well.

Vortek's product engineer has contacted me and asked for some velocity measurements to provide some quantitative data to aid in the design of a spring for the Diana EMS.

----

I am rather embarrassed to ask this next question. I have been shooting at a target at 100yds now since I acquired the rifle, and I can't hit a blasted thing. Regardless of rest, it is the worse I have ever shot. The only thing I can think of is my velocity is so low that by the time the pellet comes to the target, it is starting to destabilize. My velocity at nozzle is about 686ftps.

Any ideas?
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2021, 05:48:38 PM »
This is going to have to be a quick and dirty post, I gotta run.

In summary: The vortek spring was most definitely not compatible with the Diana 34 EMS. It is made for the previous models, but not the EMS. A side by side comparison with the assistance of a ruler clearly showed this was the case. The two springs differ from each other in almost every respect. This helped to explain why the breech seal vortek sent me was not the correct size as well.

Vortek's product engineer has contacted me and asked for some velocity measurements to provide some quantitative data to aid in the design of a spring for the Diana EMS.

----

I am rather embarrassed to ask this next question. I have been shooting at a target at 100yds now since I acquired the rifle, and I can't hit a blasted thing. Regardless of rest, it is the worse I have ever shot. The only thing I can think of is my velocity is so low that by the time the pellet comes to the target, it is starting to destabilize. My velocity at nozzle is about 686ftps.

Any ideas?

FWIW-10Meter target rifles usually shoot in the 400's fps.  Have you tried the artillery hold?  Are you shooting rested or free hand?  Are the stock screws tight?

-Y
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Offline Bill_in_TR

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2021, 05:58:20 PM »
Yogi,

Maybe I am misunderstanding something but I think you're missing a zero. I believe he said he's shooting at 100 yards.
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