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Author Topic: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring  (Read 1433 times))

Offline precisionaction

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Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« on: May 11, 2021, 07:52:00 AM »
Unfortunately, since it's arrival this rifle has been full of disappointment. I purchased it because of it's reported velocity and ability to upgrade to a gas piston, then after arrival learned the velocity given was exaggerated, and the gas piston will not be available for consumer installation. But, I digress...

I swapped out the stock spring for a vortek and then when I went to compress the new spring into the rifle the safety spring got pulverized by one of the pins as I drove it back into the housing to hold the action and trigger in place. The safety was stuck on and would not budge for the life of me. Upon disassembly, I found the safety spring was pretty mangled. Upon attempting to straighten it, about a quarter of an inch broke off, but appears not be a critical part of it. The safety seems to work correctly out of the housing, but once installed back into the housing, the rifle still refuses to charge and the trigger never catches the piston.


I have not found a dealer that carries that part yet in the states, and it is hard for me to believe that one spring is going to leave me standing with a three hundred dollar paper weight.

  • United States, Georgia, Thomaston

Offline Bayman

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2021, 08:32:30 AM »
That's too bad. Hopefully Hector Medina chimes in with some helpful news. He's a good guy.. You may be able to form your own spring from piano wire of similar gauge. Piano wire is commonly sold in fishing tackle shops as "singlestrand" wire leader material. It will be sold by the lb test but the packaging has the wire diameter on it. I'm sure Hector will help first
Good luck.
  • USA,  NY
Hw30- .177- Vortek PG2, Williams peep sights
Hw30 Laminate- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke Airmax 2-7x32 AO. 
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Offline Surfdog

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2021, 08:54:24 AM »
Just as an fyi, I recently had to change out the piston seal on a 340 N-Tec and Hector advised using dummy pins to prevent the problem you are having. I bought a pack and they made the job much easier. I was able to find them at Lowes.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-4-Pack-Nickel-plated-Shelf-Pins/3223655

  • VA
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2021, 09:11:47 AM »
That trigger is just supposed to be a modified version of the original T06. With the rod in the center of the piston no longer there and how the piston locked back on cocking, they had to make minor changes in the trigger pack to compensate for it, but most of the parts should still be the same as the older T06 triggers. I might well be wrong here, but I'd think the safety spring from an older T06 would be the same and work for you if you can find one.

As far as the gas pistons and such, the rifles are so new, the modular parts aka gas rams, barrels and spare parts haven't gotten here as fast as the rifles did.

Give it a bit and I'd guess Hector Medina will chime in to try and help you sort it out.
  • Buffalo, NY, USA

Offline tjk

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2021, 10:30:04 AM »
My first thought was did you use drift/dummy pins upon re-assembly?? But that seems to be a rather moot point at this juncture. I would suggest reaching out to chamber gun spares for the regular 34 piston (T-06 model of course) and a new T-06 trigger group. Hope you can get your Diana back up and running.
  • South Carolina.
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2021, 11:03:53 AM »
He's got the new EMS version so the old T06 trigger pack as a whole won't work but some of the parts should.

TW Chambers, part number is CS853. Word of note, the links are to the older T06 trigger, NOT the new version that's in the 34 EMS rifles and Chambers doesn't even list that one yet. If it looks like yours should, they supposedly have them in stock:
https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24955/TO6-Trigger-Unit/#
  • Buffalo, NY, USA

Offline tjk

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2021, 11:46:04 AM »
He's got the new EMS version so the old T06 trigger pack as a whole won't work but some of the parts should.

TW Chambers, part number is CS853. Word of note, the links are to the older T06 trigger, NOT the new version that's in the 34 EMS rifles and Chambers doesn't even list that one yet. If it looks like yours should, they supposedly have them in stock:
https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24955/TO6-Trigger-Unit/#

Ok. I was under the impression that as long as you used the older piston with the older trigger group, they would both fit in the ems model.
  • South Carolina.
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2021, 11:59:11 AM »
The older 34's have the latching rod in the center of the piston. The 34 EMS has a hollow piston. It was one of the changes made so if the owner wants to switch from spring to gas ram, the gas ram will slide in. It also meant changes to the T06 trigger pack so the trigger would latch when you cocked the rifle.

Go back to the older T05 and T06 rifles and that works. All you need to upgrade from the T05 to T06 is the piston and trigger pack from a T06 rifle which Chambers does sell for several different Diana models. I think it also works on the even older T01 trigger rifles but don't quote me on that as I'm not totally sure...lol. I have a 2002 built D34 with the T01 trigger and half considered it but haven't dug into researching it enough to know for sure.


  • Buffalo, NY, USA

Offline Bayman

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2021, 01:17:00 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make a spring or buy one, than a buy a piston and trigger group? Does the spring even come with the trigger group? I'm not a Diana expert but if I were the OP I'd find Hector and reach out to him or make a spring. The OP has the remains to pattern a new one.
  • USA,  NY
Hw30- .177- Vortek PG2, Williams peep sights
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2021, 01:30:40 PM »
PA is supposed to be the warranty center for Diana branded rifles and a phone call may well settle whether they have any spare parts on hand yet. I'm still going to guess the safety spring he broke is the same one used in the now bit older T06 trigger packs.

Hector @ Connecticut Custom Airguns has mentioned already tuning and tweaking a few and may well have that spring or could make one. A PM to him here on GTA would answer that one. Just find the name Hector Medina in the members list and shoot him one. Link to Hector's website: https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/

Making one himself is also a very viable option.

Spare parts is key here especially since the rifles are so new to market, the spare parts and assorted goodies that go along with the EMS system may well not have caught up with the rifles yet. The rifle in question is a new EMS based rifle and they are different in more than a few ways, the piston and trigger group being 2 of those ways. The pistons are totally different and the trigger groups while they may share parts aren't totally the same.
  • Buffalo, NY, USA

Offline Bayman

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2021, 01:41:01 PM »
It's a piece of wire bent similar to a paperclip. Which also may incidentally be modified to fit. With the a little piano wire, time and ingenuity he can be back to shooting in very little time. If he's got the skills to get apart and back together he should be able to fashion a simple spring. If he was local I'd do it for him.
  • USA,  NY
Hw30- .177- Vortek PG2, Williams peep sights
Hw30 Laminate- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke Airmax 2-7x32 AO. 
Hw50- .177- Vortek PG3, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw50- .22 - Vortek PG2, Williams peep sights
Hw95- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Hw97SE (Green 77 Laminate stock)-.177 Vortek PG3, Hawke 4-12x40 Airmax
P1- 0.20 now .177

Offline tjk

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2021, 01:50:46 PM »
Id guess it would depend on if the op wants to keep the modified trigger group for a future gas strut installation,...whenever they become available, or just go with a traditional stemmed piston/spring/trigger setup. Sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to purchase and pay shipping for a component bundle than to purchase  and pay shipping for a single component . This way he could have the option to swap out setups to see which he prefers the best.
  • South Carolina.
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2021, 03:07:09 PM »
Read this and you'll get an idea of the differences between the bit older D34's and the new 34 EMS rifles and why I keep saying a lot of the parts from the now older style 34's will not work in the newer EMS versions.

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/converting-a-spring-powered-d34-into-an-n-tec-rifle

  • Buffalo, NY, USA

Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2021, 05:45:09 PM »
My understanding is that the trigger in the D34 EMS is the same or very similar to the trigger in the Diana 340 N-tec.
See if you can find a diagram or parts for that.

-Y
  • San Francisco, CA
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2021, 06:27:19 PM »
Here...that spring still appears to be the same. That schematic is from PA so they might well have one:

  • Buffalo, NY, USA

Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2021, 06:58:15 PM »
According to:
https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24955/TO6-Trigger-Unit/#
The spring is the same, but the cocking lever is different.

Assuming that there is nothing wrong with the vortek tuning kit, and the section that broke off pushed the cocking lever upwards and kept it there. I could try to bend what little wire is left of the spring upwards to facilitate the same function.

Here are a couple of links I found on spring forming, just for funsy:
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-Springs/
https://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/making-springs-at-home/
  • United States, Georgia, Thomaston

Offline tjk

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2021, 09:05:07 PM »
Read this and you'll get an idea of the differences between the bit older D34's and the new 34 EMS rifles and why I keep saying a lot of the parts from the now older style 34's will not work in the newer EMS versions.

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/converting-a-spring-powered-d34-into-an-n-tec-rifle


Thanks for the link Steve. And just as I thought, the older stemmed T-06 piston and T-06 triggr will work in the 34 EMS as well as the N-tec 340. Basically the same action with a wider slot to facilitate the newer trigger group. But the thing is, the older trigger group is the same diameter and the cross pins are the same and they hold the group in the same position as the new trigger group with the piston skirt latch. However, to fit the newer EMS/N-tec piston, spring/strut, and trigger group to an older model, then yes you would have to mill out the action, the stock, and add a shorter rear stock screw as Hector performed in his 34 modification.
Getting back to the OPs original issue, I would source out the oem safety spring or a new EMS trigger group and use dummy/drift pins the next time during reassembly. Sure you can probably make a new spring out of spring steel wire, but getting an exact match could be iffy imo. Changing out seals, springs, and triggers is one thing but substituting a safety operating component is a risk and liability I wouldnt be inclined to pursue. Hope you can find the spring real soon William.
  • South Carolina.
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2021, 03:29:23 AM »
Unfortunately, since it's arrival this rifle has been full of disappointment. I purchased it because of it's reported velocity and ability to upgrade to a gas piston, then after arrival learned the velocity given was exaggerated, and the gas piston will not be available for consumer installation. But, I digress...

I swapped out the stock spring for a vortek and then when I went to compress the new spring into the rifle the safety spring got pulverized by one of the pins as I drove it back into the housing to hold the action and trigger in place. The safety was stuck on and would not budge for the life of me. Upon disassembly, I found the safety spring was pretty mangled. Upon attempting to straighten it, about a quarter of an inch broke off, but appears not be a critical part of it. The safety seems to work correctly out of the housing, but once installed back into the housing, the rifle still refuses to charge and the trigger never catches the piston.


I have not found a dealer that carries that part yet in the states, and it is hard for me to believe that one spring is going to leave me standing with a three hundred dollar paper weight.



What velocity were you getting that you were unhappy with?  Iff you hadn't tried to change to a new spring you would not have had this problem!  Now I understand why Diana only wants qualified people working on the EMS.

-Y
  • San Francisco, CA
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RWS 6G, .177
RWS LP8 Magnum, .177
Diana 340 N-Tec, .22 Compact Lexus
HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22

Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2021, 11:48:49 AM »
Precisioninaction.- Sorry I have been AWOL for the last few days. Nanny had the  CoViD shot and I am a one man orchestra now.
Send me your postal address and I will send you the spring.

I understand your frustration, but you have to admit that a little more research about the proper way to break down a DIANA would have prevented the issue.

No biggie, let me have your address and you will have a spring. I am leaving for the North Carolina Classic tomorrow.

And, now I am going to take the  opportunity to vent a little:
THIS is why I DEEPLY DISLIKE those tinkerers that say that dummy/dumb pins are not needed. They are a dis-service to the community. THEY may have the abilities and the wherewithal to do three things at the same time, most of us mortals do not.
SO, next time, when a professional says that something should be done in a certain way, take into account that he does this for the benefit of EVERYONE and do NOT issue opinions that MAY damage other people.

BTW, parts to convert to an NTec ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE as spares for the NTEC rifles. It's just that all the "Experts", "Godfathers", and "Pundits" simply do not know enough about DIANA airguns to realize that.

Ahhhh, the cost of ignorance.....

Rant over.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline precisionaction

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Re: Diana 34 EMS fails to charge, mangled safety spring
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2021, 03:41:27 PM »
@HM - That works, and yes there are a lot of things I wish I had known in advance. Also very pleased to hear the parts to convert to N-Tec are available, it makes me feel much more pleased with my decision.


Any further attempts to fix the diana are placed on hold until a new spring is acquired, but I have become a little suspicious about whether the Vortek spring is the proper one for the 34 EMS or whether it is for an older 34 model. I purchased it along with a breech seal from Vortek, and when it arrived the breech seal was obviously the wrong size.
  • United States, Georgia, Thomaston