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Author Topic: A scientific look into the shot cycle of recoiling spring-piston airguns  (Read 1982 times - 1 votes) 
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Offline HectorMedina

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  • Real Name: Hector Jose Medina Gomez
Not an April's Fools joke.

This will be a NINE part series.

We use three of the best recoiling spring-piston rifles ever made.

We will publish one part every two weeks.

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/shot-cycle-dynamics-in-3-spring-piston-airguns-preface

Hope you all enjoy!





HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline SpiralGroove

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  • >The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
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Thanks Hector,
Sounds interesting, hopefully I can get some practical takeaways ;).
  • Bothell, WA
PCP's:
BSA R10 (.177) Regulated
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
QB79-HPA (.22)
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.22)

Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347

Springer's:
Beeman R9   (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) (.177)
HW35E (.177) Nickel
HW50S (.177)
HW50S Nickel (.177)
HW80 (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (.177)

Offline T-Higgs

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I always enjoy your blog entries and looking forward to this study. Definitely the dark art of springer tuning.
  • Wentzville  MO
Passive aggressive people smell weird.

Offline MartyMcFly

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I just read the first few paragraphs of part 1 the intro and I'm excited like a little kid... looking forward to this series for sure!

-Marty
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 09:10:27 AM by MartyMcFly »
  • USA, Massachusetts
"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior" Rob Skynner

Invert the argument, does it still make sense? If it doesn't find a new argument.

Offline HectorMedina

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Thanks Hector,
Sounds interesting, hopefully I can get some practical takeaways ;).

Well, if you consider the instructions to build YOUR OWN vibrational airgun test-bed to be "practical", you'll be happy. ROFL!

;-)



HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline HectorMedina

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I always enjoy your blog entries and looking forward to this study. Definitely the dark art of springer tuning.

Actually Higgy, we're trying to "shine a light on the darkness".

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline HectorMedina

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I just read the first few paragraphs of part 1 the intro and I'm excited like a little kid... looking forward to this series for sure!

-Marty

Thanks, Marty!



HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline dtdtdtdt

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Hector: Did I miss something? I saw the introduction and list of chapters but not Chapter 1 in the blog posting.

I'll look again/

Dave
  • Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Dave Thomas

5.0mm CCA/Diana54, Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42AO, 17.5fpe
4.5mm/RWS54, Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42AO 17.15fpe
4.5mm FWB300SU/Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9x32, 5.1fpe

Offline MartyMcFly

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Hector: Did I miss something? I saw the introduction and list of chapters but not Chapter 1 in the blog posting.

I'll look again/

Dave

I believe that what's posted is the intro/teaser - the good stuff is still to come.

-Marty
  • USA, Massachusetts
"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior" Rob Skynner

Invert the argument, does it still make sense? If it doesn't find a new argument.

Offline Struckat

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Hector: Did I miss something? I saw the introduction and list of chapters but not Chapter 1 in the blog posting.

I'll look again/

Dave

Same  as me, then I realized that was the intro with the good stuff to come.
  • In the basement, Illinois
1377, 1986

Offline Yogi

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This started with the simple question of why some airgun's have their transfer port in the middle of the compression tube, some are off to the side, and some are even diagonally angled to the barrel.  Why???????????
Well it morphed into a whole lot more.  I just went along for the ride.  John and Hector did everything, John in particular. ;)
The people who planned and executed the Mars landing have nothing on these guys!  Nothing.

I probably only understood 50% of what the analysis was, maybe?  I hope you guys find it informative and hopefully it will make you a more knowledgable shooter.

Enjoy,

-Yogi
  • San Francisco, CA
Hatsan 95 Vortex, .22
RWS 6G, .177
RWS LP8 Magnum, .177
Diana 340 N-Tec, .22 Compact Lexus
HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22

Offline splitbeing

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Thorough start. Looking forward to chapter 1.
  • USA, PA, Pittsburgh
D48 .177 4x32 ao scope
K98 .177 open sights
R7 .177 diopter peep
Sortie (demented: semiauto removed, quiet) .177 red dot
Supercharger .22 2x pistol scope
P17
880
Flashpup .22 3-12 ao scope
Dragonfly .177 3-7x20 scope/handle (one pump to rule them all)

Offline Mole2017

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Following!
  • Pendleton, SC
Gamo CFX .177 and .22, old style triggers
BSA R10 MK2 .177
Crosman 1377

Offline chemclay

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Thorough start. Looking forward to chapter 1.

Splitbeing: I see you have a D 48 in .177; I recently acquired one from Hector, and I'm waiting for better weather to do some distance shooting with it. (It appears you might be familiar with W. PA weather); also looking forward to Chapter 1. Have you had your 48 long?
  • USA, PA, Pittsburgh

Offline MartyMcFly

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The anticipation is starting to affect me in funny ways - this morning I started wondering how many foot pounds my toaster was generating when it was launching toast into the air... then I found myself wondering if there is a sear mechanism inside and if adding preload washers to the spring could get it up to two feet in the air...  :o  ;D

-Marty

  • USA, Massachusetts
"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior" Rob Skynner

Invert the argument, does it still make sense? If it doesn't find a new argument.

Offline Yogi

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The anticipation is starting to affect me in funny ways - this morning I started wondering how many foot pounds my toaster was generating when it was launching toast into the air... then I found myself wondering if there is a sear mechanism inside and if adding preload washers to the spring could get it up to two feet in the air...  :o  ;D

-Marty

It would only matter if, when they came down, they landed back in their slots....
Accuracy is everything. ;) ;D

-Y
  • San Francisco, CA
Hatsan 95 Vortex, .22
RWS 6G, .177
RWS LP8 Magnum, .177
Diana 340 N-Tec, .22 Compact Lexus
HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22

Offline HectorMedina

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Naaaahhhh!

Marty needs to calculate the BC of the toast, then put the toaster at an incline that will launch the toast into two separate plates!
In that way, Marty can automate the toast distribution and even have two different degrees of "toastness" in each plate.

Accuracy is important, but only if you have a useful target.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!







HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline MartyMcFly

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We have so many talented individuals on GTA! Perhaps in the future we can get the three musketeers from this thread to collaborate with the fellas working on the Benjamin Triton thread. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176445.0

I genuinely think we have the brains on here to start the equivalent of Bletchley Park or the Manhattan Project of spring air gun research.

-Marty
  • USA, Massachusetts
"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior" Rob Skynner

Invert the argument, does it still make sense? If it doesn't find a new argument.

Offline HectorMedina

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Thanks for your kind words Marty!

Our aims are a bit different from the Titan guys.
We start by showing everyone that wants to read in detail, how to put together their OWN testbench.
The whole thing costs under $250 with a pocket digital oscilloscope we found that works reasonably well. We also show how to CALIBRATE the instrument.
These guys just purchase stuff that is way more expensive that the guns themselves. So, while interesting, it is still in the realm of the "specialist" or "professional".
I've done that already, and my main objection is that it does not empower shooters to find out for themselves, and does not provide a general platform for improvement.
I also think they complicate things needlessly by insisting on measuring forces directly. We START with velocity, then integrate for displacement and calibration, and derive for acceleration.
Once you know accelerations, forces are easy to calculate because masses are constant.
Anyway, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Tomorrow we publish the first part and show how to build "the apparatus".

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM
  • USA, Maryland, Darnestown

Offline MartyMcFly

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Thanks for your kind words Marty!

Our aims are a bit different from the Titan guys.
We start by showing everyone that wants to read in detail, how to put together their OWN testbench.
The whole thing costs under $250 with a pocket digital oscilloscope we found that works reasonably well. We also show how to CALIBRATE the instrument.
These guys just purchase stuff that is way more expensive that the guns themselves. So, while interesting, it is still in the realm of the "specialist" or "professional".
I've done that already, and my main objection is that it does not empower shooters to find out for themselves, and does not provide a general platform for improvement.
I also think they complicate things needlessly by insisting on measuring forces directly. We START with velocity, then integrate for displacement and calibration, and derive for acceleration.
Once you know accelerations, forces are easy to calculate because masses are constant.
Anyway, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Tomorrow we publish the first part and show how to build "the apparatus".

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Very noble goals in enabling the DIYer with the knowledge and tools to do the same testing at home, Hector. I think we all benefit from a better understanding of what is going on inside and outside of a rifle. That said, Iím sure there will still remain some mysteries that can be tackled by the GTA community.

-Marty
  • USA, Massachusetts
"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior" Rob Skynner

Invert the argument, does it still make sense? If it doesn't find a new argument.