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Author Topic: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue  (Read 3229 times))

Offline Yogi

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2021, 10:53:05 PM »
For shear vibration dampening, you want the denser the better.  Most 10 M stocks are a laminate.
Just walnut is so much purdier... ;)

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Offline T-Higgs

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2021, 01:14:00 AM »
For shear vibration dampening, you want the denser the better.  Most 10 M stocks are a laminate.
Just walnut is so much purdier... ;)

-Y

Yogi, this was true many years ago. Laminate stocks were preferred over solid wood but times have changed. Aluminum stocks are now the preferred material and, in the shooting world, are commonly referred to as chassis instead of “stocks”.

Ilimakko is correct. Beach is heavier and more dense than walnut.  But Yogi is correct in his assertion that walnut is “purdier” , at least to me anyway. 🙃 We are lucky to have so many options.
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Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2021, 10:15:09 AM »
Ilimakko   T Higgs   Yogi

Thanks for the info

So Walnut is less dense-lighter -and the 200 gram difference  Air Arms shows on their TX 200 is correct

Heck a 460 in .22 would be worth $750-$800  to me now-especially since I am playing with house money(covid 19 $$)

Pretty -or even Purdy- SELLS -I always preferred nickel pistols  -Only one I have now is a Beretta M 21 (little 22 with WALNUT grips-just can't call pistol grips STOCKS)

Turkey must have LOTS of walnut-Hatsan's air rifles-and many cheap shotguns- are frequently WALNUT-

You wood  experts-what is it about Turkey's climate that allows Walnut to grow so well???

Turkey has been inhabited "forever" Garden of Eden said to be in Turkey-I would have figured they would have lumbered it out millennium ago-guess they were pretty careful!


Smart of them
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2021, 04:13:00 PM »
OK

Thanks for your comments, greatly useful.

Some notes about woods:

Vibration dampening is not ABSOLUTELY related to density. While Beech is heavier, it is ALSO more "dampening" as Yogi said.
Lightness in a gun as far as accuracy goes MAY not be detrimetal, but reduction in the damping response to the typical airgun frequencies is detrimental to the USER.
Reason is simple: Humans "hear" through THREE different channels, depending on the frequency and intensity of the sound pressure wave;
For mid to high frequencies humans can hear through the ears AND through the bones, especially those mechanical sounds that can be transmitted through the jaw/cheekbones.

Some people that have "artillery hearing" can experiment tinnitus after the first few shots with a hollow synthetic stock. Younger/healthier persons can shoot these guns indefinitely without problems.

Over 100 years of airgun making have shown that spring-piston airguns are more "comfy" to shoot with beech stocks.
I have ONE walntut stock for airguns. It is a 54 Tyrolean. I like that stock a LOT, but for offhand shots. It's too low a LOS to use even with small, low mounted scopes.
I USED to have a TX200 in a gorgeous Walnut stock. After 5 shots I decided to sell it.
Difference between the guns? The sled system in the 54.

Not everyone will have the same reaction, again, people that have been under very loud noises and are just short of a permanent  tinnitus, do not like spring-piston airguns in Synthetic or in Walnut stocks.

Why does Turkey have so much, and quite good, walnut? Because mid-Eastern food uses a LOT of pistachios, walnuts, and pecans and has done so for the last 2,000 years, so they have been sowing walnuts (among other trees) for many generations.
Turkey has had a nice climate for just as long, which has been a reason for people to use those fruits that are plentiful.
Walnuts have a special life cycle: They start yielding fruit when they are 6-8 years old, then they are fruitful for about a century and a half and then, even when they are still growing, the are no longer commercially viable, so the wood provides an alternate value  and creates space for new trees.

Just like the Europeans have been planting/sowing beech for the last 200 years (especially in Spain and Italy), the Turks have been planting/sowing Walnuts for the last 2,000 years.

Aluminum stocks do NOT work well for airguns above 6-7 ft-lbs. Most experiments that have been made result in drastic POI changes/ thermal instability, and overall harsh shot cycle.
The exception would be the "Effezetta" stocks, that incorporate a recoil-elimination sled in their design.

Walnut stocks for the DIANA's MAY be a possibility for the long term future, but I really mean long term.

A beech, or laminated "Pro" stock for the 460 is being considered seriously.

Thanks again!






HM
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2021, 06:19:09 PM »
One thing I really appreciate about the current 460 is the stock. Great traditional lines and the gun is not as heavy as I thought. What's the weight difference between a new 54 and 54 Pro? The catalogue says only 10.7 lbs for both. Is that right? Laminate is usually heavier. A Pro 460 might tip the scales a bit.

Offline Ilimakko

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2021, 06:39:02 PM »
So Walnut is less dense-lighter -and the 200 gram difference  Air Arms shows on their TX 200 is correct

In Webley Longbow (British made), the Walnut option weighed 6.6 lbs, and the Beech option weighed 7.3 lbs. 320 grams off with Walnut - not too shabby for a field gun.

Some Americans may feel beech is a special wood, but it's not. It's the most common broadleaf tree in most of Europe, growing everywhere like a weed and being used for everything, from disposable ice cream sticks to the cheapest furniture. Without a stain, it has a hideous,  week-old salmon hue to it.

Some time ago, Yogi claimed that walnut was used in the past, because it was so common. That's the talk of someone who has never been to Europe, or taken the most basic inventory of the forests here. Walnut has never been common, it has always been a sought-after semi-precious wood here. And it hasn't been used for gunstocks for a century, as Hector proudly claimed for beech-stocked airguns. It has been used for gunstocks for 700 years, give or take. It's much more than pretty, being a premier gunstock wood.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 06:41:41 PM by Ilimakko »
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Offline rdrunner

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2021, 01:40:06 AM »
Thank you very much Hector!
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Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2021, 08:24:37 AM »
So that  is the WHY of so much pretty walnut in Turkey-the nuts-so they took care to plant harvest LOTS of walnut trees.


-for "no good reason" I prefer my Diana 460 over my TX 200 walnut-
 
The TX 200 is prettier-and ON PAPER has a better trigger

but I prefer the 460s trigger--you-dialed it in for me(on this forum) several years ago-after I fiddled with it so much-

It is now set  with LOTS of soft first stage travel-then a distinct wall- squeeze more- BAM-


I prefer LOTS of 1st stage travel-but I shoot standing freehand-and sometimes "time" my  wobble-easier to do with LOTS of 1st stage travel

 
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Offline mcoulter

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2021, 10:40:37 AM »
OK

Thanks for your comments, greatly useful.

Some notes about woods:

Vibration dampening is not ABSOLUTELY related to density. While Beech is heavier, it is ALSO more "dampening" as Yogi said.
Lightness in a gun as far as accuracy goes MAY not be detrimetal, but reduction in the damping response to the typical airgun frequencies is detrimental to the USER.
Reason is simple: Humans "hear" through THREE different channels, depending on the frequency and intensity of the sound pressure wave;
For mid to high frequencies humans can hear through the ears AND through the bones, especially those mechanical sounds that can be transmitted through the jaw/cheekbones.

Some people that have "artillery hearing" can experiment tinnitus after the first few shots with a hollow synthetic stock. Younger/healthier persons can shoot these guns indefinitely without problems.

Over 100 years of airgun making have shown that spring-piston airguns are more "comfy" to shoot with beech stocks.
I have ONE walntut stock for airguns. It is a 54 Tyrolean. I like that stock a LOT, but for offhand shots. It's too low a LOS to use even with small, low mounted scopes.
I USED to have a TX200 in a gorgeous Walnut stock. After 5 shots I decided to sell it.
Difference between the guns? The sled system in the 54.

Not everyone will have the same reaction, again, people that have been under very loud noises and are just short of a permanent  tinnitus, do not like spring-piston airguns in Synthetic or in Walnut stocks.

Why does Turkey have so much, and quite good, walnut? Because mid-Eastern food uses a LOT of pistachios, walnuts, and pecans and has done so for the last 2,000 years, so they have been sowing walnuts (among other trees) for many generations.
Turkey has had a nice climate for just as long, which has been a reason for people to use those fruits that are plentiful.
Walnuts have a special life cycle: They start yielding fruit when they are 6-8 years old, then they are fruitful for about a century and a half and then, even when they are still growing, the are no longer commercially viable, so the wood provides an alternate value  and creates space for new trees.

Just like the Europeans have been planting/sowing beech for the last 200 years (especially in Spain and Italy), the Turks have been planting/sowing Walnuts for the last 2,000 years.

Aluminum stocks do NOT work well for airguns above 6-7 ft-lbs. Most experiments that have been made result in drastic POI changes/ thermal instability, and overall harsh shot cycle.
The exception would be the "Effezetta" stocks, that incorporate a recoil-elimination sled in their design.

Walnut stocks for the DIANA's MAY be a possibility for the long term future, but I really mean long term.

A beech, or laminated "Pro" stock for the 460 is being considered seriously.

Thanks again!


HM


Great information here.  Thanks for sharing this background on different variations of wood!
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Offline McNally M.

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2021, 04:25:21 PM »
I don't see the standard Diana 34 in the catalogue. Is it being phased out by the EMS version??
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2021, 04:50:48 PM »
I don't see the standard Diana 34 in the catalogue. Is it being phased out by the EMS version??

Yep. Might still be some of the now obsolete 34's out there if you poke around enough (Numrich was selling .177's for $200 and might still have a few) but the 34 EMS is replacing it.
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Offline jccams

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2021, 04:51:18 PM »
I don't see the standard Diana 34 in the catalogue. Is it being phased out by the EMS version??
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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2021, 05:24:41 PM »
I sure agree with Hector that a Tyrolean stock is best for off hand. I have a gold plated HW77 with Williams sight and this kit fits me best for off hand, scoping is not possible for a nice fit.
Walnut and Beech......what about adding a aftermarket dampening device to lighter less dense wood. I'm thinking like a "dead blow no bounce" hammer of BB's in sealed oil cylinder. Has anyone ever tried something similar to this crazy idea?
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Offline McNally M.

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2021, 05:45:56 PM »
I don't see the standard Diana 34 in the catalogue. Is it being phased out by the EMS version??

Yep. Might still be some of the now obsolete 34's out there if you poke around enough (Numrich was selling .177's for $200 and might still have a few) but the 34 EMS is replacing it.

Wow, no kidding. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. Anyone have any experience with the new EMS? All the fancy modularity aside, is it an equal or better rifle than the old standard?
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2021, 06:16:49 PM »
I wouldn't call the 34 obsolete, just discontinued. On the dampening device, I've strapped on a mercury recoil reducer with no perceptible change in the shot cycle. They can add weight but so does a pouch of lead shot. I think part of their effectiveness in a firearm is the mercury absorbing some of the initial impulse, dispersing it as the liquid breaks up into tiny droplets. With a springer, I'm not sure how that works since there's a lot of back and forth thrusting as the piston and spring oscillates.

Offline SteveP-52

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2021, 06:54:46 PM »
Ok so maybe I should have said THAT version of the 34 is obsolete. Can't truly say discontinued since, while it's undergone the changes it has, they are still making the 34. Just a new and possibly improved version of it although I have yet to see any GTA members posting about buying one and reviewing it on the forum. I think there's a few people waiting on that to happen before breaking out a credit card to buy one.
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Offline McNally M.

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2021, 07:34:02 PM »
I wouldn't mind if this is what the new 34's looked like, as shown in a title page in the 2021 catalogue:



That globe sight is neat and kind of a throw back to the old 34's. The catalogue says changeable front sights are an option, but I've only seen the EMS version being offered with the ramped fin front sight. Not sure where one can pick up that globe sight.
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #57 on: April 14, 2021, 12:04:00 PM »
There are world-wide problems with supply-chains.

We had programmed the accessories / parts to be ready by July/August, but I doubt very much that this deadline will be met.

We still cannot get the 0.177" cal. 54 Pro's made, so that already means a 17 - 20 months "lateness".

The more time we spend in taking half-a__ed measures about the Virus, the longer it will take to get everything back on track.

Sorry, but these things are totally out of everyone's control.



HM
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Offline Whirligig

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2021, 12:20:34 PM »
can be found here:

https://www.diana-airguns.de/fileadmin/Editoren/PDF-Downloads/Publkationen/DIANA_Katalog_2021_web.pdf

A FEW comments to start off the conversation:

- The 280 is OFF the catalogue, there may be some remaining in stock, but it has been definitely dropped.
- The 54 Pro is now the Flagship of the "Performance" line (made in Germany).
- The K98 spring version has also been dropped, it is now available ONLY in PCP format under the "Action" line (Made in CHINA).
- The 350 Mag, Classic and Panther remain, as do the 48, 460, and LP-8
- There is a new LP-5 (spring-piston pistol) part of the Action line.
- Stormrider, Bandit, Airbug, Trailscout, Chaser, 240, 250, 260, 21 and Eleven, as well as the Oktoberfest Gewehr round the Action line.
- DIANA now has a RF action, suitable for both lengths of RF 0.22's.

Bunch of fun accessories round up the catalogue.

Hope you find it amusing to peruse.

Keep well and shoot straight!
HM

One p-five, stat, please!

I just messaged PA to see if they will help me get my hands on one.

Does anyone sell these in the US yet?

-W
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 12:22:48 PM by Whirligig »
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Offline McNally M.

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2021, 01:19:52 PM »
There are world-wide problems with supply-chains.

We had programmed the accessories / parts to be ready by July/August, but I doubt very much that this deadline will be met.

We still cannot get the 0.177" cal. 54 Pro's made, so that already means a 17 - 20 months "lateness".

The more time we spend in taking half-a__ed measures about the Virus, the longer it will take to get everything back on track.

Sorry, but these things are totally out of everyone's control.



HM

Totally understandable in light of the global logistics issues that have been ongoing for over a year now. Its not just air guns that are being delayed, its darn near everything! But the air guns are what matter most to this community  :D
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