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Author Topic: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue  (Read 3143 times))

Offline Yogi

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2021, 10:18:08 PM »
Hector,

Do you anticipate a Lexus version of the 34EMS.?  The hogsback stock it too nice not to continue... :-[

-Y
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Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2021, 07:52:27 AM »
Hector-so the K98 spring version is cancelled

I ordered one-bargain $269+Tax+ shipping-about $310 a month or so ago-but changed my mind-I prefer .22 to .177(easier for old hands to load)

BELOW A HUGE ASIDE-

I am old-70-and the K98  really caught my eye(still on sale Numrich-clearing them out I guess)

-as a kid-I watched LOTS of westerns- many set near the US Mexico BORDER(still watchthem-Magnificent 7 with a  German  actor playing a mexican peasant turned gun man)-COOL MOVIES

They were usually turn of century 1890-1910

The federales (sic)  and the bandidos (sic?) ALWAYS had  bolt action Mausers(early iterations but dead ringers for 98s)- with cool looking  cross chest bandoleeros  with those very long

cartridges-the Gringoes had Winchesters and revolvers

Funny I thought the Gringos had the Bandidos and Fed police OUTGUNNED because the Winchesters(pistol bullets) were quicker shooting and held maybe 9-12 rds

I had no idea just how outgunned they were against a modern military rifle-smokeless powder-

but they was how it was portrayed-and the Gringos never seemed to grab the Mausers when they had the chance-bet those Mausers-98 or earlier-were very pricy-Mexico did get a license

to build them-but still would have been expensive-forged receivers-hard to machine-pricy barrels hard to machine -fiddly little steel parts

-the gringos were usually bandits escaping justice by hiding south of the border-

The bandidos-the leader were really fancy dressed--big sombreros     big silver belt buckles     polished spurs  crossed bandoleers-the Federales-were just scruffy  soldiers -with those french looking caps

I always picture the Mauser 98 with the Federales or the Bandidos-not with WW1 WW2 germans -not sure why USA outlaws never grabbed one when they had a chance(ammo harder to get?)

Maybe I will spend some of my COVID 19 money on one





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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2021, 01:15:50 PM »
OK, some more answers:

There is one 4.4 mm's repeater in the catalogue, and yes, that will still be available, that one is made in China by SPA and, while it has had some "teething" problems, it is so much fun and has a dedicated following that it was kept. For the Germans it is the equivalent of the Red Ryder.

There was TALK of making a special BB (0.172") version under the Air Venturi brand for the US, but AFAIK, it never did come to a reality, so NO, even if the catalogue says "BB" it means the 4.4 mm's ndKugeln"Ru"


Ammo si not complicated to source, and if you go to the accessories sections (page 33)  you will see the ammo, as well as the "targets" that traditionally are ceramic stars.

Again, if you are interested in this write to your favorite purveyor.

OUTSIDE the catalogue, DIANA STILL manufactures the "Modell 30" or "Kirmesse" gun, but with modern materials, methods and procedures to make the guns last into the tens of millions of rounds the price is around €900-00
So, you are either a stand operator in Germany that goes from town to town earning a living, or a VERY dedicated collector.  ;-)

Thanks for the continued interest!

HM

So then this is a typo:

Optional können auch cal. 4,5mm Stahlrundkugeln genutzt werden. Optionally you can also use cal. 4,5mm (.177) steel BB´s

No, Pablo, it is not a typo.

We're talking of different things.

In the same way that Daisy makes BB guns, and ALSO makes a "special target" BB gun:  https://www.daisy.com/product/daisy-model-499b-champion-competition-rifle/  they are not the same thing.

4.40 mm's is equivalent to 0.173".
BB's are nominally 0.172"
Rifling depth in these barrels is shallow.

So, yes, you CAN use steel BB's in these barrels, but:
1.- You will be "erasing" the rifling on every shot
2.- It will not be as accurate as a proper smoothbore barrel designed for BB's

The EXCEPTION to the above would be the Excite BB from H&N, or the Dust-Devils from AirVenturi

Like many Crosman and Daisy MSP's that CAN shoot both, I am sure (have not tried this first hand), that they will shoot both.

Now, PERSONALLY, I would really like to use the gun with the ammo it was designed for, and getting the accuracy that a spinning ball has. OR, I would like to have one with a really good smoothbore barrel to use the "Match BB" that are not that expensive/hard to get either.
I have seen some discussion about the difference between the Ground shot and the BB, but the real problem is that manufacturers do not put out solid technical info.

In any case: CAVEAT EMPTOR. I cannot give you more information, I have asked DIANA if there is any advance on a special steel BB ONLY version, I will let you know what I find out.







HM



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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2021, 01:23:33 PM »
Hector,

Do you anticipate a Lexus version of the 34EMS.?  The hogsback stock it too nice not to continue... :-[

-Y

Yes, Yogi, a "LUXUS" version more in line with the "Premium" stock that we designed/have been using since the TH/ Premium/ Premium k/ Luxus versions of the 440, 34, and 340. It was contemplated from the beginning.
Problem is:  ¿WHEN?
LOL!

It's just that with all current difficulties and changes, it has taken a lot of time to get things done, BUT . . . at least in principle, it has now coalesced into a UNIFORM "look" for all future DIANA models (even PCP's). The combination of the hog's back cheekpiece and the "organic" forms of the forearm that you find in the "54 Pro" is what will constitute in the future the "signature look".

Patience, my dear Grasshopper . . .

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2021, 01:46:39 PM »
Hector-so the K98 spring version is cancelled

I ordered one-bargain $269+Tax+ shipping-about $310 a month or so ago-but changed my mind-I prefer .22 to .177(easier for old hands to load)

BELOW A HUGE ASIDE-

I am old-70-and the K98  really caught my eye(still on sale Numrich-clearing them out I guess)

-as a kid-I watched LOTS of westerns- many set near the US Mexico BORDER(still watchthem-Magnificent 7 with a  German  actor playing a mexican peasant turned gun man)-COOL MOVIES

They were usually turn of century 1890-1910

The federales (sic)  and the bandidos (sic?) ALWAYS had  bolt action Mausers(early iterations but dead ringers for 98s)- with cool looking  cross chest bandoleeros  with those very long

cartridges-the Gringoes had Winchesters and revolvers

Funny I thought the Gringos had the Bandidos and Fed police OUTGUNNED because the Winchesters(pistol bullets) were quicker shooting and held maybe 9-12 rds

I had no idea just how outgunned they were against a modern military rifle-smokeless powder-

but they was how it was portrayed-and the Gringos never seemed to grab the Mausers when they had the chance-bet those Mausers-98 or earlier-were very pricy-Mexico did get a license

to build them-but still would have been expensive-forged receivers-hard to machine-pricy barrels hard to machine -fiddly little steel parts

-the gringos were usually bandits escaping justice by hiding south of the border-

The bandidos-the leader were really fancy dressed--big sombreros     big silver belt buckles     polished spurs  crossed bandoleers-the Federales-were just scruffy  soldiers -with those french looking caps

I always picture the Mauser 98 with the Federales or the Bandidos-not with WW1 WW2 germans -not sure why USA outlaws never grabbed one when they had a chance(ammo harder to get?)

Maybe I will spend some of my COVID 19 money on one

Charles;

I am just slightly younger than you, not much. And yes, we all grew up with the "B" and even some "C" Westerns of our time (Do you remember Raquel Welch as the widow that learned how to shoot fast-draw to take revenge?)  ;-)

When I was an adolescent, I also dreamed of Colts and Winchesters, when I turned 16 the gun laws changed in Mexico and it became impossible to have a gun as an "ordinary civilian" (also known as "second class citizens"). So my dreams were about to remain that.
My life changed and I became heavily involved in firearms, but as time passed I also became a history buff.

And here goes an interesting perspective:
ALL true "Revolucionarios" carried TWO guns (there are in fact pictures of this). For some engagements, the Mauser (properly appropriated from a dead "Pelón" -meaning Federal because they had crew-cuts and Pelón means bald or very short-haired-) and a Winchester 94.

The Revolución was fought on TWO completely different settings: The open fields of Celaya, Torreón, Sonoita, etc. And also the urban and semi-urban locations like Churubusco, Chihuahua, Veracruz, etc.
The Winchester '94 was the FIRST ASSAULT rifle of human history. It has never been recognized, but if you look at the AIMED rate of fire, the energy and weight of the ammo, the tactical reloading capabilities, gun's weight and size, the 0.30"-30/160 was not far off the current 7.62X39/AK system.
The Mexican Revolution raged from 1910 till 1921, so it was a long and protracted war.

As all Revolutions, MOST of the definitive engagements were the urban/semi-urban type and so, the image we had was quite the opposite: The good guys (Revolucionarios)  won the battles with speed and cunning over the firepower of the evil Federales.

;-)

So, my personal engagement with the K98 comes more from the military perspective and the history of sniping and sharp-shooting; the hundreds, if not thousands of soldier's lives that have been saved by a well placed "de-capitation" strike.

And so, the two K98's that are in my list of projects are going to end up like that. On purpose, we chose the 0.177" cal because DE-TUNING the 460 powerplant to the ballistic optimum of an 8½ grains pellet will yield a pleasant and stable platform to perfect the techniques and the marksmanship.
Besides it is less expensive to practice a lot.

;-)

So; Claw mounts, low power scope, maybe forward mounted, leather cheekpiece, sling and LDC. JSB, FTT or QYS at 875 fps

Sounds good?

;-)

I am sure the PCP version will also have its followers, it IS a nice gun, much lighter and a very ingenious and UNIQUE system that you will not find in any other SPA gun.

Perhaps we will test that one some day also.

For the time being, let's shoot springers!







HM
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Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2021, 08:12:55 AM »
Hector
 
Raquel Welch-not likely to forget HER-Looked it up-Hannie Caulder was the movie-LOADS of BIG NAME actors actresses-even Christopher Lee-of HAMMER FILMS -and James Bond-and maybe

those kiddy wizard movies-fame?

I had COMPLETELY forgotten about the 30-30-I had seen plenty of images of revolutionaries ARMED TO THE TEETH-but usually with the Mauser-

You are dead on-they used everything according to this cut-BUT they could get 30-30 ammo-and as you say-it is dead on(maybe a tiny bit more powerful 130 grain and maybe 2400 fps-vs 123-

about same FPS)-but maybe dead on in older loadings- 1600 ft lbs-4-5 times a pistol-with many many times the effective range.

Yeah-dead on AK 47 7.62 39 ballistics-aimed fire not much advantage for AK since winchester quick loading-and aiming takes most of the time

Oh-this cut says it 1969(age 18)I bought a 7MM Argentine Mauser-fort about $30- price kinda high for the time-took it behind the Mississippi River Levee-shot it-just toilet paper stuffed

in my ears for protection-HUGE BAMMMM-  COOL GUN-I stupidly sold it years ago-ammo was cheap then too-

Shame you have such strict gun laws- ours are not-but you can not mail-order firearms like I did a Winchester 190 .22 in 1964-went to post office to pick up-probably had to get parents

to pick it up-

I read somewhere that below Rio Grande-North America (Mexico 6 Central American countries) and South America- civilians could not buy military caliber guns under any circumstances

so the 38 Super became a favored auto in  1911 Colt--and if you were a connected civilian-you could buy one

Thanks for the K98 springer info-very tempting-a cool looking 460 for just $310 delivered now-Numrich(sic-can not spell)

Thanks

Charlie


Here is the cut-
Bolt-action rifles carried high-powered military smokeless rifle ammunition, including the 7x57mm Mauser, .30-06 Springfield and .30-40 Krag. Even hunting rifle rounds that were scrounged up saw use, including the popular .38-56 Winchester, designed for the 1886 Winchester lever action and employed in the 1895 Marlin lever gun, as well as the various .40, .45 and .50 caliber loads produced for such sporting arms. Other old, but still deadly calibers, including the all-but-obsolete black powder .45-70 Government load, which could be used in 1881 Marlins and 1886 Winchesters, surplus 1873 Springfield “trapdoors” and the like would not be turned away. Except for the .30-30 round, which the revolutionists usually seemed to be able to get lots of, obtaining quantities of other types of sporting ammo was difficult.


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Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2021, 08:26:09 AM »
We -USA movie watching public- viewed  the Federals-who we saw as sort of a military unit and police-and kinda scruffy looking

as you say short hair-   no cool Sombreros-sometimes those Kepi hats-no revolvers(just officers maybe and usually to execute some poor civilian or captured Revolutionary)

The Revolutionarys-in movies the Leaders-Villa    Zapata etc  were always impressively decked out-clanging spurs- crossed bandeleros with HUGE(long) looking  cartridges)

Funny our soldiers-USA-and the USA-gringo banditos- Never -in movies-wear crossed  chest bandeleros??Usually they have a cartridge pouch attached to belt-slow to access.

They help PLENTY of readily available cartridges-and would offer some ballistic protection-wonder why USA soldiers and USA bandits-never wore the bandeleros-IN MOVIES??

They seem to make lots of sense-and LOOKED SOOOO COOL-in pictures various revolutionaries wore them cross chest-around waist

and pictures  with 1 rifle at hand another(as you said)  and one strapped around chest(armed too teeth-but no visible knife usually)-why bother with all  those guns)

You are a student of history and firearms-why didn't soldiers of all stripes wear bandeleros??

Thanks

Charlie
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 08:28:25 AM by phoebeisis »
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2021, 01:29:02 PM »
Mexican Mausers were usually 7mm and of the "small ring" type (the front of the action is not as heavy as on a K98). They are much sought after by shooters and form the basis for some nice custom guns. So, if you want a "Mexican" K98, buy the .177. German, .22.

Hector, are you going to weld claw mounts onto the K98? That would be pretty slick. Looks like there are repro mounts available but I'm not sure if they may work. These first set of rings probably will not as they are likely sized to the action. The side mount may be doable with a base attached to the compression tube.




« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 01:35:59 PM by RedFeather »

Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2021, 04:20:35 PM »
@ Charlie.- There are a number of reasons why the cross bandolera chested Revolucionarios are in the pictures, while the Federales were not allowed to carry them.

The reason is this:



The "Adelitas". Women that followed the Armies and functioned in teams formed by the women of specific squads.
Revolucionarios had no "Quartermaster", there were no field kitchens or designated cooks, all males fought, women provided support. The Revolutionary Army provided protection to the women. Sometimes the whole family went on the war-path.
And, while me may look at it with / through the romantic fog of forgotten hardships and history, casualties were high among women and children that followed the Revolucionarios.

And here is another:


When Adelitas took arms, they became "Soldaderas", like these ones (one with a non '94, the other with a Mauser):



or this one, (with the more commonly seen '94):


or this one:



It is said that Princess Leia's hairstyle actually was inspired by a famous Mexican "Coronela": Clara de la Rocha, herself the daughter of a "General":



Sidebuns were not too common, but I am sure that women, even under those circumstances like to be well presented and "distinct" from all others.

;-)

Now, the Ejército Federal, did have all the food provisioning mechanisms, but regulations called for the carrying of a knapsack (Prussian/German influence was heavy during Porfirio Díaz's regime). And so the crossed "Bandoleras" were not allowed. As any good soldier, some Federales listened to the orders and then went on to do whatever worked in the battlefield.

The Mexican Revolution was, in its time, the most photographed conflict, the most documented in the news (though today we would call some of those reports "fake news").

There was a HUGE influence from the US, that pressured Winchester to supply what was needed.

It IS an interesting sliver of time. What the US and  Mexico became, was in a big part, determined by what happened there and then.

On a personal basis, Charlie, I am now an American Citizen, and enjoy immensely the freedom and liberty that our country allows.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2021, 04:23:53 PM »
Mexican Mausers were usually 7mm and of the "small ring" type (the front of the action is not as heavy as on a K98). They are much sought after by shooters and form the basis for some nice custom guns. So, if you want a "Mexican" K98, buy the .177. German, .22.

Hector, are you going to weld claw mounts onto the K98? That would be pretty slick. Looks like there are repro mounts available but I'm not sure if they may work. These first set of rings probably will not as they are likely sized to the action. The side mount may be doable with a base attached to the compression tube.

Actually, yes, we are going to use those mounts, not welded, properly glued and using the right screws, not the supplied ones. The curvature of the mount is exactly what is needed, as the 460 "chassis" has ALMOST PRECISELY the same diameter as the small ring mauser, which was ALSO used as the basis of the SSG guns in WWII.

Still some more project to tackle before I REALLY start with those, but they will come.

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2021, 05:54:59 PM »
Looking forward to seeing it.

Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2021, 08:04:14 AM »
Ahh-so now you can get those items-or updated versions of same

Our TV-1950-1960s really influences me-westerns WW2-LOTTA FIREARMS

Yes Mexican Revolution was the first really WELL PHOTOGRAPHED WAR-live photography and some live video

Our Civil War and Crimean war-were photographed-but film required such LONG EXPOSURES-many many seconds-even minutes

Subjects always "look funny" and the long exposures-meant much of it was STAGED- battlefields rearranged- your Mexican Revolution certainly they understood propaganda-

so staged-but many  actually capture true life-man with wife and toddler-I see he has one of those Kepi type hats-probably more practical than a sombrero-

Yeah women children always suffer-especially in modern wars- and they are usually targeted to get men to quit-

Yeah they had to bring their women children otherwise the Federals would capture them-threaten to murder them-or just murder them

Sure explains the bandeleros gotta carry your ammo-no fancy logistics

So USA gov  twisted-encouraged Winchester to supply Revolution?? Well if the Elite were too close to Europe-GERMANS-Germany-that would sure explain that!

I really had no idea that the Winchesters were so important south of Rio Grande-our movies westerns-usually show Federals-and those described as banditos-with the Mauser

Yeah 30-30 -ballistics-dead ON ak 7.62 39 -I had no idea that the 30-30 played a role-makes sense-drop  a dear certainly will  kill a man

I am a history buff also-but only have TV notions of the Mexican revolution-I did not know that USA GOV covertly/openly  favored Revolution(for USA reasons-European influence not wanted)

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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2021, 05:26:14 PM »
OK.-
Back on track, and hopefully, most readers will not have been pushed away by our historical obsessions, LOL!

DIANA wants to pose a question:

¿Would you all like to see a DIANA 460 with a "Pro" style stock?

Obviously not "red", ROFL!

;-)

Comments / opinions?







HM
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2021, 08:44:20 PM »
That style would be interesting a 460. My 340 has to one of my best looking rifles.

Offline Jshooter71

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2021, 09:33:21 PM »
OK.-
Back on track, and hopefully, most readers will not have been pushed away by our historical obsessions, LOL!

DIANA wants to pose a question:

¿Would you all like to see a DIANA 460 with a "Pro" style stock?

Obviously not "red", ROFL!

;-)

Comments / opinions?







HM

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Offline T-Higgs

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2021, 08:49:41 AM »
I would love a pro style stock for my 460 especially if I could just buy the stock alone as opposed to buying another 460.  And “not red” would be preferable 😬
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Offline Rick67

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2021, 09:46:07 AM »
I would love a pro style stock for my 460 especially if I could just buy the stock alone as opposed to buying another 460.  And “not red” would be preferable 😬


Dunno why red got the majority vote  ;D
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Offline phoebeisis

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2021, 10:35:27 AM »
not sure-does Pro style  mean with a more  pronounced cheek piece?

I like my 460 as it is-but I would pay maybe $250-$300 more for a gaudier one-like the TX 200 with WALNUT-cheek piece is nice-more natural pointing with scope

Power sells also- FPS FtLbs -   looks and power sell-especially to young buyers

Weight matters too- Air Arms says their Beech  TX  carbine 200 is 4.0kg    Their   walnut TX 200 CARBINE  3.8 Kg

This is from their site-and is repeated-so probably  not a typo- I would  not have guessed Walnut is lighter than Beech- but apparently it is.

I would have some interest in engineered wood laminate-like a 10/22 target model-heavier but cool looking...

T
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Offline Jshooter71

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2021, 10:58:39 AM »
My Diana Bucket list at the moment are, in order: AMO3 Stealth .177 (unless I’m too slow to get one before they are gone), Diana Panther 350 Magnum .22, D54 .22 Red Laminate and that D460 .22 in the Pro-style stock Hector is referencing, if it comes to be. Just thought I should reiterate that I’d like to be signed up if it materializes.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 11:15:09 AM by Jshooter71 »
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Offline Ilimakko

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Re: The DIANA 2021 Catalogue
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2021, 05:20:06 PM »
I would  not have guessed Walnut is lighter than Beech- but apparently it is.

Walnut has an S.G. of around .55. European beech has an S.G. of around .63.

I have a wood sample collection of some 200+ species. Handling billets of walnut and beech side by side makes it really apparent that beech is a denser and heavier wood. One of the good reasons to choose walnut over beech.
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
HW95L .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal