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Author Topic: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.  (Read 959 times))

Offline Stinger177

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2020, 06:11:30 PM »
Yah, Diana was not shy about using sex appeal to sell air rifles in those days!

Again, take my memory for what it's worth, but I believe the cut scope rails were really unpopular, and did not last very long. The date on Shane's model 36 ("07 85" per his OP) does seem to indicate a very early-production example.

The 1985 catalog describes the rails as "stamped," which if true (and not just an example of bad translation, LOL), must have been cheaper than either milled or added on.

When I zoom in on your ad pic and look at all the models with smooth tops, I am not seeing any dovetails at all, nor is there the add-on ramp. I'm wondering if when they say "Stamped dovetail with buffer for scope" they are actually referring to the model 38, which is the only one in the ad that has the add-on rail, and, the term "stamped" refers to the way it is riveted on?

I really can't imagine dovetails being stamped in without total distortion of the tube.

 ???
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 06:13:56 PM by Stinger177 »
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Online lizzie

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2020, 08:18:42 PM »
That is great information. Thank you so much.
I was hoping to get $100, but maybe bump up to $150. Would you recommend me posting on the Classified here?

I'd think you could definitely get more than that for it. I have a very similar model 36- almost in new condition, and I am not even sure it's ever been shot. About three years ago, I paid 300 dollars for it, and do not regret it. The model 36 is not common, and it's a stepped-up version of a classic- the model 34, which I would consider probably one of THE favorite airguns for general use. Congrats!
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2020, 11:21:11 AM »

When I zoom in on your ad pic and look at all the models with smooth tops, I am not seeing any dovetails at all, nor is there the add-on ramp. I'm wondering if when they say "Stamped dovetail with buffer for scope" they are actually referring to the model 38, which is the only one in the ad that has the add-on rail, and, the term "stamped" refers to the way it is riveted on?

I really can't imagine dovetails being stamped in without total distortion of the tube.

 ???

Dennis;

I would tend to agree with you.  It is a bad translation.

DIANA stopped milling dovetails into the receivers because receivers got deformed by the compression. It was a much more robust solution to rivet the rail. Not even the modern BKL's can  deform the DIANA rail, while I have seen milled dovetails deformed by BKL's.
Riveting is a good process when done precisely. There are millions of rivets holding together bridges and buildings. But rivets can also fail catastrophically, as  in the case of the Titanic. A LOT has to do with the relative temperatures of the rivet itself and the parts that is being held.

Back in those days, most scope mounts had dovetail plates that were detachable, so the non-opening to the rear (a physical non-sense in a gun that has a closing cap that is larger than the tube itself) was a non-issue in the real world.

AND, we do need to remember that the 11 mm's dovetail was NEVER intended for scopes. It was DESIGNED for peep sights.
The peep sights that had detachable side-plates were never of the highest quality. The raised rail solved all issues in an elegant way within the traditional DIANA design.

In the FUTURE, the EMS will return to the milled dovetail because that is less expensive, BUT in a more rigid mechanism/compression tube than was ever possible with the steels available many decades ago.

"Come, grow old with me, the BEST is yet to be"

Keep well and shoot straight!








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Offline Stinger177

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2020, 09:44:10 PM »

When I zoom in on your ad pic and look at all the models with smooth tops, I am not seeing any dovetails at all, nor is there the add-on ramp. I'm wondering if when they say "Stamped dovetail with buffer for scope" they are actually referring to the model 38, which is the only one in the ad that has the add-on rail, and, the term "stamped" refers to the way it is riveted on?

I really can't imagine dovetails being stamped in without total distortion of the tube.

 ???

Dennis;

I would tend to agree with you.  It is a bad translation.

DIANA stopped milling dovetails into the receivers because receivers got deformed by the compression. It was a much more robust solution to rivet the rail. Not even the modern BKL's can  deform the DIANA rail, while I have seen milled dovetails deformed by BKL's.
Riveting is a good process when done precisely. There are millions of rivets holding together bridges and buildings. But rivets can also fail catastrophically, as  in the case of the Titanic. A LOT has to do with the relative temperatures of the rivet itself and the parts that is being held.

Back in those days, most scope mounts had dovetail plates that were detachable, so the non-opening to the rear (a physical non-sense in a gun that has a closing cap that is larger than the tube itself) was a non-issue in the real world.

AND, we do need to remember that the 11 mm's dovetail was NEVER intended for scopes. It was DESIGNED for peep sights.
The peep sights that had detachable side-plates were never of the highest quality. The raised rail solved all issues in an elegant way within the traditional DIANA design.

In the FUTURE, the EMS will return to the milled dovetail because that is less expensive, BUT in a more rigid mechanism/compression tube than was ever possible with the steels available many decades ago.

"Come, grow old with me, the BEST is yet to be"

Keep well and shoot straight!








HM

Thank you Hector for the additional info and experienced knowledge.

One thing I think we should always mention (especially to DIANA newbies) is that the add-on top rail is definitely "riveted" on, even though it appears to have a Phillips screw head on top.

I still have not found any clarity on why they used a Phillips head rivet.

Yet now, actually, since I just typed that last sentence, I did a quick search and found this interesting link.

Is it really possible that those are indeed screws, and are somehow peened from below? It's been a while since I had a D34 torn apart, but is there actually access directly below those top rail rivet/screws to allow for a peening process?

Read through the above link. There are some interesting pictures in there, but it appears that they are speaking of a more modern DIANA/RWS than our more vintage ones, yet the attachment method seems to be the same.

Here's a teaser image taken from the above link.



 ???
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2020, 11:53:25 AM »

Thank you Hector for the additional info and experienced knowledge.

One thing I think we should always mention (especially to DIANA newbies) is that the add-on top rail is definitely "riveted" on, even though it appears to have a Phillips screw head on top.

I still have not found any clarity on why they used a Phillips head rivet.

Yet now, actually, since I just typed that last sentence, I did a quick search and found this interesting link.

Is it really possible that those are indeed screws, and are somehow peened from below? It's been a while since I had a D34 torn apart, but is there actually access directly below those top rail rivet/screws to allow for a peening process?

Read through the above link. There are some interesting pictures in there, but it appears that they are speaking of a more modern DIANA/RWS than our more vintage ones, yet the attachment method seems to be the same.

Here's a teaser image taken from the above link.



 ???

Dennis;

Perhaps we need to make a difference here between what things are and how things WORK.

My experiences with rails coming off were basically with older DIANA's. The link you posted  clearly shows a change in the method I was not aware of.
I have sent an EMail to DIANA's Technical CEO and will keep us all posted about the reply.

In any case, even if a screw is driven in as a screw, if it is driven in cherry hot (or hotter) and then the technique allows the cooling of the screw to tighten the joint to points that would be completely impossible through torqueing, then that screw is really working as a rivet.

We need to remember that rivets are driven in red hot, then "Headed" using a vibratory hammer, and it is the cooling of the stem what brings the parts together into an almost solid THROUGH friction. Rivets do NOT resist in "shear" mode. They resist by making the parts so tight that the friction between them prevents any movement.

Anyway, let's see what DIANA answers, we will all learn something new.

Thanks for the post/link!

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

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Offline RedFeather

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2020, 09:01:48 PM »
Looks like a typical early 34/36 with the "shovel style" steel safety which became the curlicue or "pig tail" safety, then the more common plastic. I believe this generation has the slightly smaller compression tube. Nice looking piece and period-correct scope. I think those were airgun rated.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 09:07:14 PM by RedFeather »

Offline Stinger177

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2020, 01:26:25 PM »
FWIW, I was just browsing TW Chambers looking for a rear sight screw, and listed right next to that is a "scope rail screw" part number B1158.

https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24380/34-TO1/

 :D
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Offline Checkpoint

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2021, 08:55:05 PM »
Nifty Diana, nice. Wish I were in the same country, I'd snap it up. Great for squirrel hunting and backyard fun.

Well from my initial question/post to today, the accuracy of this rifle for hunting always amazes me. I have a Hatsan Flashpup as well and it's scoped, but I've gotten more chippers, rabbits, and squirrels with the Diana because I can aim faster with the iron sights. Nabbed the first squirrel of the season for me today, head was poking out on a tree trunk, bam.
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: 1985 RWS Diana Mod 36.
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2021, 11:01:35 PM »
Nifty Diana, nice. Wish I were in the same country, I'd snap it up. Great for squirrel hunting and backyard fun.

Well from my initial question/post to today, the accuracy of this rifle for hunting always amazes me. I have a Hatsan Flashpup as well and it's scoped, but I've gotten more chippers, rabbits, and squirrels with the Diana because I can aim faster with the iron sights. Nabbed the first squirrel of the season for me today, head was poking out on a tree trunk, bam.

Good for you!

The appeal of "stuff" is so great that we sometimes forget how enjoyable simple things are.

Congrats!






HM
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