GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Garandsx5 on May 30, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
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So.... I lucked into a Beeman R10 .177 at an estate auction. No info on use or history available other than what I can see. It has the San Rafael address, so I’m figuring’ ‘85 or ‘86. It is like new with no bluing wear or marks on the metal. One small scratch on the stock that, honestly, probably happened at the sale with people handling the guns. I don’t believe this was ever shot very much, if ever. This would jibe with some of the other guns in the sale.
Once home, I shot two pellets to verify that it works. My question: do I continue shooting or should I do a preventative tear down and inspection? It is 35 years old. Should I just assume that it need new seals, etc.?
Second question: if I’m going into it, I plan on going with Vortek internals. I see they offer a 12 fpe kit and a 20 fpe ‘HO’ kit. Opinions, please. Thank you for your help.
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Bruce do you have a chronograph?That will tell you the basic health of the gun. I would just shoot it and see if it meets your needs. If it doesn't a Vortek tune kit is a nice set up. I have them in all my guns and installed them for other people. That said 12lb kit is unnecessarily low but 20lb will be terrible if it actually makes that much. I have a lot of experience with Tom and his kits. Pm me if you're not satisfied with the way it shoots for you now. Just because it's old don't mean it's broken. Whatever you do, do not add oil to the gun. It will detonate and damage it. Use it as is as long as it cocks smoothly and shoots well. If it's crunchy it probably needs a spring and has to be taken apart.
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If it were me I would tear it down and take a look inside, 35yrs old those seals probably need replaced! if the guns looks new it probably is! and not used doesn't mean anything, piston seals only have about a 10yr shelf life, JMO, I just got done tearing down R10 tubed HW98, yes I said R10 tubed HW98, this a hybrid rifle, R10 power plant everything else is off of a HW98, its also stroked and tuned with JM Hornet spring for an HW50, this is 1 of OC rifles, the R10 rifles have the screw off end cap, their easy to take down, I would use a JM kit and a ASA piston seal, 8)
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If it were me I would tear it down and take a look inside, 35yrs old those seals probably need replaced! if the guns looks new it probably is! and not used doesn't mean anything, piston seals only have about a 10yr shelf life, JMO, I just got done tearing down R10 tubed HW98, yes I said R10 tubed HW98, this a hybrid rifle, R10 power plant everything else is off of a HW98, its also stroked and tuned with JM Hornet spring for an HW50, this is 1 of OC rifles, the R10 rifles have the screw off end cap, their easy to take down, I would use a JM kit and a ASA piston seal, 8)
Where did you come up with the 10 year shelf life on seals?
I have one from 1986 in one of my 77Ks. Ain't nothing wrong with it.
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These 2 are less that 1 year old!
(https://i.imgur.com/DXjWwj3l.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/p4th2fpl.jpg)
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To be honest I ask that question along time ago to someone who knew the correct answer, and for the life of me I cannot remember who it was!!! I know when I started buying seals in bulk I inquired about shelf life, and was told they have about a 10yr life, I also have seals I have removed for very old guns, that look like their still usable and their 30+yrs old, but why chance it 8)
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So.... I lucked into a Beeman R10 .177 at an estate auction. No info on use or history available other than what I can see. It has the San Rafael address, so I’m figuring’ ‘85 or ‘86. It is like new with no bluing wear or marks on the metal. One small scratch on the stock that, honestly, probably happened at the sale with people handling the guns. I don’t believe this was ever shot very much, if ever. This would jibe with some of the other guns in the sale.
Hey Garand,
I also bought a San Rafael R10 in .177 cal. (changed to .20) and I opened her up even though she shot at 880 fps. The gun had a bent spring (it only had been fired a few times - estate sale) and had the awful Split metal spring guide. While the piston seal looked OK - it was old. Mine also had a deformed piston, so I replaced it with a modern HW95 (modified) piston.
- IMO, I would open her up and replace the spring/spring guide and piston seal. If you choose to buy a Vortek kit, I'd get the HO version as you can always cut coils to reduce power if desired.
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The R10 was pretty well known for breaking springs.
Myself, I'd shoot it long enough to see if you like it, and if so invest in a tune kit and some good moly lube.
Or just shoot it till something changes. It may be fine for a long time.
I can tell you from doing it, don't use a Vortek kit with the factory piston unless you are pretty handy with tools. The notch at the rear of the piston is stamped out, and deforms the diameter of the piston and the sleeve on the Vortek kit won't fit inside. You can fix it and make it work, but it's extra work. You also have to remove the piston liner and use the new style cocking shoe.
A kit from Air Rifle Headquarters should drop right in as it is.
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Congrats on the New-2-You R10 Bruce!
But I must confess, now you guys have me worried about mine in .20, wondering now if I should take a gander inside.
I was thinking, if it ain't broke why fix it... but maybe I didn't know it was capable of more. ::)
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Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the issue.
Initial chrono (Pro Crono Digital- 6” from muzzle) results:
Winchester (Spain) 7.4 (?) gr domes
927
927
914
919
908
919
903
904
900
893
Crosman Premier brown box 10.5 gr
709
699
694
691
683
671
663 - I did pull this noticeably off center
677
673
678
So, the two trial shots after the sale, plus these 21. Cocking and firing seem smooth. Maybe I’ll just get some more through it for a bit.
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Those are strong numbers! Keep shooting it unless something go's a miss! ;)
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The R10 was pretty well known for breaking springs.
Myself, I'd shoot it long enough to see if you like it, and if so invest in a tune kit and some good moly lube.
Or just shoot it till something changes. It may be fine for a long time.
I can tell you from doing it, don't use a Vortek kit with the factory piston unless you are pretty handy with tools. The notch at the rear of the piston is stamped out, and deforms the diameter of the piston and the sleeve on the Vortek kit won't fit inside. You can fix it and make it work, but it's extra work. You also have to remove the piston liner and use the new style cocking shoe.
A kit from Air Rifle Headquarters should drop right in as it is.
I agree with most everything you say. I wasn't aware of fit issues with the notched piston so thank you. However I'm not sure if you actually need the new cocking shoe. You'd think so because the shoe is supported by the now removed original piston liner. I did an old R1 with the new PG3 steel kit and the old style shoe works fine. It just rides on top of the steel PG3 outer guide instead. Also swapping the shoes is cheap and easy if it was actually necessary.
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GREAT find!
I bought an R10 from a fellow member here a little over a year ago. It is one of the best guns I have....One of those that you don't let go of.